15: Tyler Norton, Comp Climbing Podcaster

Tyler is a fellow competition climbing nerd and podcaster, who has been involved in the space much longer than I have, and you may be familiar with his channel, Plastic Weekly! In this episode, we’ll talk about what it’s like MCing at a world cup, commiserate on the hardships that come with climbing podcasting, go over some climbing HOT TAKES, and talk about the upcoming 2024 season!


Show Notes

Guest links:

Tyler’s Instagram

Plastic Weekly IG

Plastic Weekly Youtube

Reference links:


Timestamps

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Introduction

1:15 - Gym experience

7:16 - MCing and commentating at world cups

13:35 - Beginnings of Plastic Weekly Podcast

17:31 - Starting The Debrief series with John Burgman

20:52 - Commiserating on highlights and lowlights of podcasting

30:36 - Competition hot take: GOAT is overused

42:09 - Hot take: Get rid of isolation?

48:29 - People don't care about the overall title anymore?

55:00 - NEOM games environmental impact

1:01:35 - IFSC's new RED-S Policy

1:05:54 - 2024 season predictions

1:13:14 - Olympic favorites

1:18:54 - Discord Q: Is there an absence of climbing media?

1:24:19 - Discord Q: Are gyms are good place to start climbing careers?

1:29:04 - Where to find Tyler

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    MCing is really, you're trying to like, you're being a conductor. If the crowd is a symphony,

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    you're trying to be the conductor to some extent. There are two things that I remember saying

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    that I regret and that I should apologize for. Who have a terrible record of killing journalists,

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    jailing people for tweeting, and just an awful human rights record. If Janja was American,

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    she would be a superstar. She would be Simone Biles.

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    Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your host,

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    Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my guest, Tyler Norton. Tyler is a fellow competition

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    climbing nerd and podcaster who has been involved in the space much longer than I have. And you may

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    be familiar with his channel, Plastic Weekly. In this episode, we'll talk about what it's like

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    MCing at a World Cup. We'll commiserate on the hardships that come with climbing podcasting,

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    go over some climbing hot takes, and talk about the upcoming 2024 season. If you end up enjoying

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    this style of comp climbing podcast, be sure to check out the debrief, which is Tyler's podcast

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    on Plastic Weekly. And for now, hope you enjoy this episode with Tyler.

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    Okay, but yeah, let's get right into it. So sounds good. I know you're not a huge fan of

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    describing yourself, but I think people need a little bit of an introduction of how you got

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    into climbing, how you got into competitions, and I guess your knowledge on the history of climbing.

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    Yeah. Well, I think I started climbing like most people. It's just you get dragged to a gym,

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    whether it's your idea or somebody else's, but had a great time. At this point, I've been working

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    in it for about 15 years almost, and been really fortunate to do a lot of things in all different

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    parts of the sport. So aside from setting and coaching and customer experience at climbing

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    gyms here in Canada, also getting to organize a lot of competitions through our provincial bodies.

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    Got to MC a World Cup one time, got to go to a bunch of World Cups, either dragging behind

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    some of the Canadian kids and just watching them do their thing. But yeah, just a lot of

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    little bits of exposure here and there through the time working in gyms got me really interested.

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    About I guess six or seven years ago, started up Plastic Weekly as a sort of expression of

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    wanting to contribute to the conversation and wanting to talk to people who, in my professional

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    life, I didn't have a reason to. And yeah, that's kind of the story. So I've just been really

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    fortunate to get to experience lots of different parts of climbing. Most people, I don't think,

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    get a chance to do that. Or most people don't last long enough in climbing before they find

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    better pay and then whatever somewhere else. But yeah, that's just the reality of climbing,

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    I guess. Yeah, unfortunately. How long after you started climbing, did you start working at the

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    gym and doing everything else? Also, you never told me that you MC'd at a World Cup. That's pretty fun.

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    Yeah. Yeah, it was 2015, a Toronto Boulder World Cup. It's the deep lore of me and Pete Woods.

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    Toronto hosted a World Cup 2013, 2014, 2015. And in the first two years, it was Pete Woods and a

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    Toronto local, Dave Voltan, I think. They were the duo for MCing it. Not commentating it, just

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    MCing it. And then the last year, I think Pete had a personal engagement somewhere in Europe.

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    He couldn't make it. And I had been MCing a bunch of local comps in the area and I got asked to do

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    it, which was very kind. And yeah, it was a wild experience. But yeah, I started climbing at a time

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    where I didn't really have a strong career path. I had dropped out a couple of times with different

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    programs and stuff. So it was probably about a year and a half, properly. But right away,

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    and it may have been the same thing for you, was you get into climbing as a climber and very

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    quickly you have lots of questions and you're fascinated by how does this gym work? How do

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    these comps work? And all this curiosity led me to volunteering in different things. And it was a

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    small new gym at the time. The community was just starting to build out. And so I kind of,

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    by benefit of being one of the few familiar faces around through volunteering and so on,

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    got a job and just kept kind of going up the tree just because I stuck around, I guess. But yeah,

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    so not very long.

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    Interesting. No, I mean, yeah, I do not have the similar experience at all. It took me several

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    years before I feel like I actually got into climbing, even though I was climbing on a regular

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    basis. Yeah, I feel like I followed the path where it was like I had never done any sports before

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    and I wasn't particularly good. I just liked climbing for fun. And then I plateaued at like

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    V3, V4-ish, as people do. And then I didn't really have that passion because I plateaued for so long.

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    And it wasn't until COVID happened that I kind of got out of that funk.

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    Oh, interesting. So I'm similar to you in that I wasn't into any sports before climbing.

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    And I think that's part of why I loved it so much was it was the first time I felt remotely like a

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    well-rounded person. Because as a kid, I had never been told I was like an athlete or, you know,

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    sporty or anything like that. So I really appreciated that. But for me, and it may be

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    different for you, was the climbing was fun, but I was really curious how the industry worked very

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    quickly. It was like, who puts up all those questions that you get from people that you

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    probably talk to like, is there a map for the holds and who makes the holds and who makes the

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    walls and is it fastest to the top in a competition? All those questions was what got me the most psyched,

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    I guess, really early on. So very quickly, I stopped caring about getting good at climbing

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    for whatever reason. And it was just all about like, oh, I want to be behind the scenes in this.

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    Oh, interesting. Yeah, no, I didn't care at all. I didn't care. And then I wanted to get good.

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    And then to get good, I wanted to learn about all of that.

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    Gotcha. Have you done stuff in your life where you start something and you're immediately like,

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    I need to master this? Is that something in your personality or what?

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    No, never. Yeah, I'm not a perfectionist. I do things and then I'm pretty half-hearted about it

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    until I reach that certain point that's like, oh, I'm good at this and now I can actually,

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    I've unlocked the fun parts and now I'm really into it.

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    Gotcha.

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    So I think that's what happened.

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    Okay.

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    But yeah, I wanted to learn about all the behind the scenes because I think that'll help me

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    get better myself as well.

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    That's cool. Yeah.

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    Yeah. Back to, well, I wanted to get more into about you and seeing stuff because that sounds

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    like a lot of fun. And you also did like commentating as well, right?

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    Yeah. I think, I don't know where it started, but probably just having a bit of like a music

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    background means I'm not, I don't really deal with stuff that I'm not really into.

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    I'm not, I don't really deal with stage fright at all. And I'm pretty comfortable being in front

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    of like a large crowd of people. So just some local cops at, you know, starting out at the gym

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    that I worked at at the time. The famous Canadian bouldering tour is called the Tour de Bloque up

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    here. And it's kind of, it's slowly fizzled out over time, but that was, you know, every gym in

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    Canada wanted to host a stop on the Tour de Bloque. And of course we did for a bunch of years and I

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    were just MC for the finals, you know, I, and I did that for a few years. And I guess at some point

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    that transitioned to commentating when the gyms were starting to feel more comfortable about like,

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    Hey, let's splurge for a live stream. Wouldn't that be a cool, like fun thing to do? But yeah,

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    the MCing was, was just, I was willing to do it. Whereas a lot of people aren't, they might not be

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    interested in, in, you know, having a lot of eyes on you and having to talk for a long period of

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    time. But I've always felt pretty confident in my ability to like fake it on a microphone and so on.

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    Yeah. I've had a lot of good role models when it comes to like stagecraft. So, so even if I'm not

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    great, I'm still comfortable with it. But yeah, the, the, the world cup one was, was wild because

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    at that point I would have only like live witnessed maybe two world cups, like a speed world cup in

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    2013 and a boulder world cup in 2014. And I'd watched a bunch and I'd been to a bunch of like,

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    well, I guess the other big ones would be like ABS nationals, like the American boulder series.

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    And I had always thought like, Oh, what a cool job it is to be the guy with the microphone and

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    have to introduce everybody and have to create that hype. So I had a few influences, but something

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    about the world cup with just like how long the days are. And maybe the fact that it was in a

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    hockey arena that this world cup was in something about the acoustics, the crowd was really loud.

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    And it was a ton of fun. I remember, I think it was Tsukuruhori maybe gashed open his finger.

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    And for whatever reason, I thought it would be appropriate to like commentate everything that

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    was happening, like with the medics and him dealing with all the blood and the event organizer had to

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    come over and just be like, you can stop, you can stop talking about the finger injury now. So I was

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    like, okay. But yeah, ended that comp, I guess the Sunday night after finals, like super worn out.

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    I just like felt like I was about to black out. I was a little bit dizzy and I was just like,

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    you're just exerting yourself for a couple of days. And yeah, it was a pretty like strenuous

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    experience of trying to maintain hype for like two days straight. It was wild, but like a really

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    cool opportunity. And I haven't had it since and that's okay. I don't know if I want it again.

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    It was really long, but very cool. Very cool to see it like all up front. And that was actually

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    like my favorite climber Anna Sturr's very last gold medal event was that one. So there's this,

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    I have this crazy memory that I get to keep for the rest of my life of being the person that gets

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    to say, and in first place, blah, blah, blah, Anna Sturr for the last time of her career.

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    And so like, if I've got a handful of like best memories ever in climbing, that's definitely one

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    of them. That's not super exciting. I so I've never been to a World Cup in person. So I didn't even

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    think about there being an MC there because you obviously don't hear that during the live streams.

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    Since you've done both MCing and commentating, what do you feel like are the differences there

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    and which one do you prefer? Yeah, I certainly prefer commentating because you're allowed to

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    talk about more and you don't have to yell as much. And also I might not have been a great MC. I may

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    have done like too much yelling, but MCing is really, you're trying to like, you're being a

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    conductor. If like, if the crowd is a symphony, you're trying to be the conductor to some extent.

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    You're trying to help lead them towards big moments and you try to cue it all up. So everybody's like

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    amped up right when somebody gets a top and that's cool by itself. But commentary is nice because

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    it's usually a bit more conversational and you can actually talk about beta for instance. Or, you know,

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    if Jakob Schubert is climbing a boulder, you would be permitted to say to the stream like, well, this

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    is what Mejdi did and this is what Adam did. Whereas obviously as an MC, you're not allowed

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    to just yell into a loudspeaker microphone what just happened that breaks all the rules of isolation

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    and you know, beta sharing and stuff like that. So I certainly prefer the commentary. I wish MCs got

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    to, it got to do a little bit more of what, of what commentators do. I think audiences at events

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    could, could be a little more in the know and, and maybe have a better experience if somebody

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    was giving a bit more actual information and context to what was happening rather than just

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    screaming platitudes, trying to get people psyched up, you know, make some noise and stuff.

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    But yeah, I, I certainly prefer commentary. That's definitely the place to be if you're going to do

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    either of them, I think. Yeah, that's super interesting. I feel like MCs need more credit.

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    It's a, it's really, it's a skill for sure. It's a kind of, can be kind of embarrassing, I bet.

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    Yeah. I think like all these things, if you just put yourself out there into a microphone,

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    there's a lot of, you know, if you're, if you're too self-aware, you can really bottle yourself up.

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    I think you have to just be willing to kind of like go with the moment and hope you don't come

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    off as insincere. That's, that's always my biggest worry is that people are going to be like, who the

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    hell is this guy? Like, why, why is he talking into a microphone? That's my like, you know,

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    what, what gets me all nervous. But yeah, it's long days and you're just like kind of yelling

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    the whole time. It's not the most fun thing in the world for sure. Yeah, I could never,

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    I bring much more of like a calming nervous energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

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    But okay. And so you've done all that. How did you get started on the podcast?

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    The gym I worked at at the time was a pretty big commute from where I lived. So I was listening

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    to a lot of podcasts for the first time in my life. And I think a bunch of different

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    podcasts made me think, oh, there's room for this in climbing. At the time, the only climbing

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    podcast that was like focused on competitive and indoor climbing was called, uh, shock talk,

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    by a guy named John Blomquist. And sadly, I think they're all gone. I think like, I don't know what

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    host he used, but I think they're just erased from the internet, which really sucks. Cause he had a

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    bunch of great interviews with, you know, hold shapers and gym people and competitive climbers

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    and gym owners and stuff. Him and Jackie Huffley, who's involved with Kilter grips now,

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    they would do after every world cup, they would do kind of a roundup, kind of like what plastic

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    weekly does. It was a shorter format and it talked kind of about different things.

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    But that was really cool. So there wasn't a whole lot of content at the time. And I thought, you

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    know, wouldn't it be neat if somebody was talking about issues in Canadian gyms or Canadian comp

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    climbing and then, well, there's only so much to talk about in Canada. So let's do some American

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    stuff. So, you know, I just bought a, you know, bought one of those little audio interfaces for

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    microphones and, um, yeah, I went around to places just recording with people for the most part. I

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    think I recorded all of them like face to face, um, just with a Mac book and a couple crappy little

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    sure mics. And then over time started using like a digital interface or like online interfaces,

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    like the one we're using right now. Uh, and that kind of led to where the podcast is a video

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    product came up. Um, yeah, just kind of that evolution from audio to video, I guess.

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    Yeah. So I guess you managed to do a lot of interviews with, um, I guess through working

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    at the gym and going to competitions that way. Yeah. If you're a coach and you travel to a lot

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    of competitions, you do meet a lot of people. You meet a lot of other coaches, you meet a lot of

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    like comp organizers, you meet gym owners and stuff like that. And so after coaching for like five-ish

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    years, you start to feel like you really know everybody in Canada that's involved with comps.

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    Um, so within Canada, it was pretty easy to talk to people. Um, if I wanted to speak to Americans,

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    it was more of like, hi, I'm a random dude, you know, can I bother you for an hour or something

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    like that? But within Canada, it's a pretty small community ultimately. So it wasn't too hard.

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    Did you mention that you were a coach or did I just totally miss that? I did not know that you

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    were a coach. I might've buzzed over it. Yeah. I was just coaching kids. Um, and, uh, uh, um,

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    yeah, it was, it was just, you start as a rec coach and you kind of follow your kids up and a couple

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    of them ended up at a world youth championship in 2015. So that was like another big moment getting

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    to meet lots of like international people. Um, yeah, I got to go to the one of the ARCO ones,

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    which at the time I was aware that ARCO is a, I knew factually that it was like a historic place,

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    but until, you know, years later, when I started the podcast and started doing more historical

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    research, did I realize like, Oh, I was in a really, in a really special place, like one of

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    the very like foundational competitions in, in like Western competition history. Um, yeah. So

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    a little bit of coaching, I wouldn't say I'm like, uh, coaching is something I'll probably never do

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    again. I don't have the drive for it. I don't have a personal like competitive background.

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    So I think I was pretty good at working with kids, keeping them happy, making sure they have a good

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    time, keep them safe. But when it comes to like trying to build a competitive drive, um, I don't

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    have that myself. I can't really relate to that part of the human condition. So, so I kind of

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    maxed out how much I could do in coaching, I guess. Yeah. Okay. And so, um, with the podcast,

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    it seems like now you're more so doing debrief with, um, John and instead of doing interviews.

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    Um, yeah. Why did you sort of pivot away from, from the interview? Yeah. Anybody that's followed

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    plastic weekly for a long time. First of all, like the name has become a joke by itself. Um,

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    and I've kept it because it's a good reminder to stay humble about your ambitions and what you're

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    capable of. I thought it was going to be a weekly podcast. I would publish every week. I thought I

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    was going to do an audio thing with like two or three interviews every single week in one episode.

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    And between that being like way too much work, I just, the way my life works, the way my

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    personality works, I started having these months where nothing would come out. And over the seven

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    years of the podcast, that's a recurring pattern, right? There will be content for a bunch of months

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    and then I'll just disappear for a couple. And, and I'm starting to learn to live with that,

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    especially because it's not the thing that pays my bills. And the other big part of my life is

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    still climbing, right? Like I spend almost all of my time in the week talking about climbing and

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    thinking about climbing and worrying about it. And so it is a little hard to get home and want to

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    dive right back in sometimes, especially during the winter time when it is kind of busy season

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    for gyms in, uh, in the Northern hemisphere. Um, so it's, it's had lots of ups and downs,

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    but the thing about John that was great was I had wanted to try this format possibly since John

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    Blomquist stopped doing his on shock talk. And so I was thinking like, wouldn't it be cool if we

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    could do this kind of thing? Like the kind of content that's really at the time was really

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    popular in like e-sports circles where it is just two guys on Skype talking for a couple hours.

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    And I was digging around trying to find like, okay, who's actually writing about competitions?

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    Who's, who's the person covering this stuff? And it's a really short list, but John was right there

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    at the time writing for climbing magazine. And so I shot him a message and we're like,

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    Hey, can we do this? And of course he was great. He's a sports nerd in general. It's not just

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    climbing. He just loves sports and he's fluent in that kind of discussion, uh, which was a good

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    counter to me where I don't have a lot of history of being a sports fan. Um, so he brings this great

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    experience as somebody that understands like fundamentally the experience of being a sports

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    fan, of being a sports journalist and me coming from a different angle. That's a little bit more

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    naive about those things and more of kinda, I'm used to working in the background. I'm used to,

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    you know, maybe being involved with the organization of events. So it was a really

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    cool dynamic, but the real key thing is it's where I discovered that having a partner to do one of

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    these introduced a new level of accountability to make sure it gets done. Because now it's not just

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    me failing myself. If I don't put out a piece of content now I'm failing John. If I don't reach out

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    to him and say, Hey, we got to do this Tuesday. I've got a guest and all that kind of stuff.

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    So it made it much easier to do things because there was somebody that I was going to disappoint

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    directly and somebody that I like love deeply and I don't want to disappoint him or leave him

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    hanging. So that's the key to the longevity so far of the debrief is that he's just there.

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    He adds that extra layer.

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    No, that's awesome. And seven years doing this is, I mean, quite a feat. I kind of wanted to,

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    I guess, commiserate on highlights and like biggest struggles of dealing with the podcast.

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    Yeah. What have been your highlights?

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    That's a good question, man. Highlights of the podcast. That's like, honestly, maybe like the

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    first time somebody like wrote me a letter, like sent me like actual mail. That was sick.

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    I used to have this really lame way of ending the podcast. I think I said something like,

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    you know, if you enjoyed this, like shoot me a message, just let me know you're out there

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    somewhere. And for whatever reason, some people would occasionally like write a letter, which

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    is amazing. And that was really gratifying. Highlights otherwise was maybe starting to feel

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    like I'm becoming friends with the other people who are covering climbing, like really struggling

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    to keep the tabs on this stuff. Like it's a very small group of people, especially in English,

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    that are actually trying to keep track of the evolution of the sport. It's people like, you

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    know, John, obviously Delaney Miller as well over at climbing, Natalie Berry, of course.

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    And then some names that are fading out, like Eddie Fouke. He did five incredible years as the

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    official IFC photographer and things really went south, unfortunately, around the pandemic. But

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    that guy is, the amount of institutional memory in that one person is wild and he needs to write a

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    book like as soon as possible, because for five years he was living on athletes' couches and

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    shooting the comps and flying with the athletes and taking all of their pictures, making sure to

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    take a picture of every single face at the comp and qualifiers. Like from, what was it for him,

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    2014 to 2019 or something? He is the memory of record for the athlete experience. And sadly,

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    he's kind of phasing out. I think he's found other things that he loves and he's definitely

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    earned the ability to move on. But getting to meet these people has been amazing. And the one or two

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    of them that I might talk to outside of an interview is really rewarding. Yeah, I don't know.

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    The low points, I'm trying to think of the lowest point. Have you ever had somebody,

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    have you ever published an interview and then the subject messages you and says,

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    like, hey, can you take it down within the day that you've put it up or anything like that?

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    What's your, do you have any disaster stories? No, holy crap, if that happened to me, I might just

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    shut everything down. Yeah, for real. It's silly. Yeah. I don't know. I had, it was somebody involved

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    in like hold shaping back when it was an audio podcast and we recorded it and it was great.

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    And there was nothing that I thought was like remotely troubling. But yeah, it was up for maybe

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    like 12 hours. And then I got an email while I was just like out of the house saying like,

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    hey, can you edit this out? And I was like, I can't edit it out like right now. It's kind of busy.

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    So I ended up taking an episode down and republishing it later after having clipped some

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    stuff out. But that was like really frustrating. Okay. I thought you meant like you just couldn't

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    publish the entire episode. No, it was a particular, yeah, it was just one particular area, but it was

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    like it kind of ruined an entire line of questioning because we kind of started talking about I think

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    like quality control and liability and stuff. I think that's what it was about. But yeah,

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    that does make it difficult. But no, I thought it was more of like a personal thing. Like, hey,

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    this went up and now I hate you and I don't want to go ahead. I want to hear it's like what some of

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    your highlights are low points. Low points are honestly more fun, frankly, but it's not even

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    like nothing bad has really happened. It's just my fear of bad things happening that just gives

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    me this constant anxiety about it. Sure. Like, um, I don't know if you see if you're like on

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    TikTok or anything, but I see a lot of videos, um, talking about, uh, like anxious attachment styles.

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    And I think in my personal life, I don't have an anxious attachment style, but in like podcast

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    guests, it's like, you need this like constant, uh, communication or like you need to always

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    be in the interview or like in the, in the like lead up to it, lead up, I think, or that's like

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    what anxious attachment is. Like you need to be constantly reassured that you're like, okay. Or

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    like the person is so this explains like the nine reminder emails I've gotten like in the last day.

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    Okay. Gotcha. I understand now. See, I didn't know that it sends that actually. I haven't been

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    sending anything that might be like the calendar invite. You've, you've programmed the system well

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    to do what you internally want it to do. Good job. No one's told me that that happens.

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    But yeah, that like doesn't happen to me in my personal life, but since starting this podcast,

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    I get so worried when someone does not like respond to me or if like I had them on and then

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    they're like busy after, um, and they like, don't respond to my message. I'm like, oh my God, they

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    hated the podcast. They hate the interview. They don't like me. They don't want it to go up. They

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    don't want to post it. They're like not happy with the conversation. And so that, that's the biggest,

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    that's probably the biggest low light for me. I like, don't know how people feel after.

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    How do you feel like you've had a real blunder though? Cause like there are two, there are two

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    things that I remember saying that I regret and that I should apologize for. They weren't necessarily

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    like mean or offensive, but I felt like, Oh, that didn't come across the way I wanted it to,

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    to that person. And I feel like I may have possibly hurt them. And I'm almost certainly

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    overthinking it, but there are two people in the universe who I really need to just message at some

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    point and be like, Hey, I haven't heard from you since we spoke years ago. I just wanted to make

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    sure you don't think that I think you're a total idiot or something like that. I don't know. There's

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    just a couple of things like that. I don't know if you've, if you felt that way. No, that I don't

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    think that's happened. At least if I think I say something stupid, I can edit that out. To the

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    person, I think I tend to err on like the safe side, but do you want to go into what stupid things

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    you said, or is that too haunting for you? I feel like I should apologize to them personally, but one,

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    one was, I just made a, I made a quip. I think it was a conversation about like, you know, talking

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    about who our candidates would be for maybe like best boulders ever some, like some like fairly

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    just like hypothetical conversation. And I think I, when they gave their answer, I suggested like,

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    Oh, I'm surprised you didn't say this person, which kind of suggested that I thought they had

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    a really basic outlook on like climbing, like, Oh, I assumed you would have picked this name

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    because you're dumb or whatever. Like that's how I was afraid it would be read. And then the other

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    one, I'll just say this out loud, cause it's so, so stupid, but just like off the cuff. And this is

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    where you really forget some of these climbers are young, but I forgot Colin Duffy was like 16 at the

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    time. And I just made a joke that he has big ears, which normally just in general, I wouldn't be too

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    harsh about that. Like my, like where I come from, people make fun of each other's looks to our faces

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    all the time. And you're just like busting each other's balls. But like right after I said it,

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    I was like, Oh, this guy's a child. Like I think of him as a, as a climber that's been on the scene

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    for like as long as I have, even though he was only 16. But instantly I was like, you know what?

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    That was too far. Yeah. There's just like little, little blunders that come up and you're like,

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    okay, at least I'm going to learn from that. I'm going to remember when I'm talking about these

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    young athletes like, you know, Cheyenne So or I am more like, especially if I'm making jokes that

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    I would consider appropriate for adults, I have to remember, even though they're like pro athletes,

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    that is a kid. And I do need to like dial in a certain amount of restraint when it comes to,

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    you know, you know, for all the talk about red S, which is kind of like code for a lot of,

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    it's not quite the same, but it kind of falls in the same stream as like body image issues.

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    And especially when we're dealing with kids, that's like, absolutely not stuff that some dumb,

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    like at the time 27 year old should be tripping in on like the looks of a 16 year old kid. Right?

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    So that's a mistake I am doing my best to not make ever again. Fortunately, I don't think anybody

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    ever like watched that episode. So, I mean, it wasn't like in front of them. No, it wasn't.

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    It was just one of those things that you're just like, oh, I'm an idiot. And why did I say that in

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    front of a microphone? Like that was recording, right? Well, I mean, the nice thing is that you

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    could just edit it out. I don't know if that was on my show that might've been on somebody else's.

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    I think, yeah. But anyway, I mean, you can always ask them to edit it out, but yeah, I guess that's

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    kind of the good part of having the show. Cause then you can make yourself look however you want.

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    Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that doesn't happen to me too often because

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    my podcast is focused a lot more on, I guess, like me learning about the competition space.

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    And I thought your whole brand was roasting teenagers. I mistook your podcast. I thought

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    that was the whole thing. No, I would love to have like a young climber on. I think that would be

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    really interesting, but yeah, if that becomes my brand, maybe, maybe I shouldn't do that.

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    They would get clicks. It would, but yeah, I think one of your greatest like strength,

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    strengths and abilities with your podcast is your ability to open up discussion and discourse on

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    things that happen with Incomps, whereas mine is more just like interviewing and learning about

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    the person and what they do within the competition space. But yeah, since that's kind of more of your

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    focus and you talk about what happens within Incomps, what are some of your competition hot

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    takes? If you were to ask like the plastic weekly crowd, like the, the regular viewers and like

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    people that might make memes about this stuff, it's probably that I am pretty,

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    pretty cautious about using words like greatest of all time and like legend and all those kind

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    of things, which is funny. I don't know if you watched the IFSC debuted their,

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    their podcast just like yesterday or something. And within the first 10 seconds, Matt, who is

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    excellent at his job, Matt starts by lamenting like the overuse of the term legend and then proceeds

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    to call Sean McCall like the goat, which just made me want to blow my brains out. Because I think,

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    especially with my concern about like the history of climbing, I think it's really important that we

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    kind of hold back on being too generous with our compliments and the titles we give people,

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    lest we forget how important it actually is when those real people show up, when we have those

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    00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,800

    incredible highs. If you've been calling everybody a legend for the last 10 years, and then an actual

    342

    00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,840

    legend shows up, what's this new viewer going to be able to tell the difference, right? If we call

    343

    00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:55,680

    every of the six, like, you know, finalists at a Boulder World Cup, for instance, a legend, like

    344

    00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,640

    every fricking kid, every 16 year old kid, Mejdi is a legend already or something like that. And

    345

    00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:06,960

    then a genuine legend, somebody that competed for forever and won a ton of golds, you know,

    346

    00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,920

    like Killian Fishuber comes on stage to maybe hand them a medal. And then you then try to call

    347

    00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:17,680

    Killian Fishuber a legend after using the exact same word for some 15 year old punk that like,

    348

    00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,640

    maybe bluff their way into their first ever finals. What does it even matter? Like, what do,

    349

    00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:30,640

    like, it's just like an arms race to the most superlative title for athletes. So that does

    350

    00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:38,560

    require like a certain amount of awareness of the history of climbing, which just due to my own

    351

    00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,440

    personal interests, I happened to delve into that. And I don't expect everybody to do that.

    352

    00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,920

    It's not, you know, it's not everyone's responsibility to do all the research

    353

    00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:54,000

    themselves, especially, you know, for something as like unrewarding as this. But yeah, I think

    354

    00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,800

    my biggest hot take was like, especially like 2019, when everybody was like, oh, I'm going to

    355

    00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:04,560

    call it the goat. I was like, hold off a second. Like if you're going to declare somebody the goat,

    356

    00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,680

    here's the mental exercise I need you to do before you drop that title. Okay. If Yanya is

    357

    00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:16,800

    the new goat as of June 2019, whenever it was that she won Vail and swept a boulder season,

    358

    00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:24,080

    if that made her the goat, who was the goat until that happened? Who was the goat before Yanya?

    359

    00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:30,400

    And not many people could even suggest another name in that category. And that was really

    360

    00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,960

    disturbing. I don't think that title, because I can't think of a higher title, what is the

    361

    00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:40,800

    better compliment to give an athlete aside from like greatest of all time, time, time.

    362

    00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:48,560

    That's a really big thing to put on somebody. And so in my like hot take world, that's really

    363

    00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,200

    disrespectful to drop titles like that. If you can't even think of like, who was the goat right

    364

    00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,680

    before Yanya or you can't name some other candidates. I think that's like, that's way

    365

    00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,800

    too close to hyperbole for a title that important. I think that's like an inappropriate use of it.

    366

    00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:10,640

    And I should just clarify all that by saying, I'm not saying Yanya isn't one of the best athletes

    367

    00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:16,720

    that climbing has ever seen, or that she may become or maybe she is, but I think that's

    368

    00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:21,760

    she may become or maybe she is the greatest climber we've ever seen. I just think you have

    369

    00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:27,600

    to actually understand what you're saying when you give somebody that title. Because in my opinion,

    370

    00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,560

    there is no bigger title that is the ultimate achievement for anybody that touches climbing.

    371

    00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,520

    And so that really frustrated me. So anyway, now you've got angry Tyler on the podcast now.

    372

    00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:42,160

    But yeah, that's probably, that's probably like the biggest hot take that I can think of. I don't

    373

    00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,400

    know. There might be some other ones out there, but yeah, get rid of isolation. That's another one.

    374

    00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,720

    Please excuse this brief intermission. But I would just like to remind you that if you are

    375

    00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:55,360

    enjoying this podcast, please follow and rate it on your preferred listening platform. If you're

    376

    00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,680

    watching on YouTube, I would love to hear your discussion and thoughts in the comments below.

    377

    00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:05,680

    Anything helps to push this podcast out to more people and get even more amazing guests on.

    378

    00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:13,520

    Back to the show. I guess first of all, what you mentioned about Yanya, they're not being a previous

    379

    00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:22,720

    goat before Yanya. Doesn't that kind of make it more meaningful that people like are starting

    380

    00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:27,120

    to call her a goat? Because like, if there was already a previous one, and they're just like

    381

    00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:35,280

    jumping between people. So this is this is my my question is, I so climbing like bouldering has

    382

    00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:43,760

    been going on at a World Cup level since like officially 1999. But technically like 97, let's say.

    383

    00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,280

    So for all of those years, and again, people just refer to Yanya as like the goat without

    384

    00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,880

    any qualifiers. I don't know if they're talking about lead climbing or bouldering or both. I have

    385

    00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:59,760

    no idea. But for all of those years, say again, I mean, kind of like both is the point like,

    386

    00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:07,680

    sure. Yeah, fair enough. My concern there is that there are other female athletes who have excelled

    387

    00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:14,640

    in both lead and bouldering. So before Yanya hit the scene, even though that discussion was not

    388

    00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:21,200

    taking place on YouTube or taking place on audio podcasts, there was somebody who in different

    389

    00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,320

    people's opinions was the best of all time. Right. And maybe it just came up, you know, in

    390

    00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:33,680

    live journal feeds, or on somebody's blog, on somebody's flash website that is now defunct

    391

    00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:40,320

    and broken and lost to time. But before Yanya, there was a previous best climber. And just

    392

    00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:46,480

    because current viewers might not know who those people are, it's not good enough to just be willing

    393

    00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:53,040

    to drop that title on somebody, right? Like, maybe the conversation hasn't happened for for all these

    394

    00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:58,080

    for all these new viewers, maybe they weren't aware of who came before. But it's really important

    395

    00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:03,280

    before you grant somebody like the greatest, like, let's say, let's say somebody granted you or me

    396

    00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:09,440

    the greatest competition podcast of all time, but they have never heard any other competition

    397

    00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:15,920

    podcasts aside from ours. That isn't a relevant title to give to either of us, right? I don't know

    398

    00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,640

    if they knew about shock talk. I don't know if they are aware that podcasts have only been around

    399

    00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:27,120

    for so long and you have to look back to like the, the, like the spot setting blog, or all these

    400

    00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,760

    different old, you know, blogs and websites that covered that stuff. I think the important thing

    401

    00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,840

    to realize is that there were climbers that came before Yanya that did incredible things. And just

    402

    00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,640

    because we don't know their name, it doesn't mean we can just forget about them and skip over them.

    403

    00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:46,880

    I think to call Yanya the goat, I think it's only appropriate to give somebody a title that big.

    404

    00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,600

    If we can look back at those before her and say, yes, she has actually earned that when you compare

    405

    00:37:51,600 --> 00:38:00,480

    Yanya to, for example, a Sandrine Lavey, who was dominating from like 2001 to 2006, or even further

    406

    00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:09,760

    to like a Liv Sansos, like let's say 90, 99 to like 2001, 97, I guess. Those are other names.

    407

    00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:14,720

    Those are like before Yanya, those are the people you would have considered as the best of all time

    408

    00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:18,880

    that were like interdisciplinary that did both bouldering and lead at a very high level.

    409

    00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,880

    And those names are pretty much forgotten. So it just hurts when Yanya gets called the goat,

    410

    00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,960

    but the people dropping that title aren't aware of the people that came before her.

    411

    00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:36,880

    So that was my only real grift with the, with the goat discussion was that I think that's a huge

    412

    00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,680

    title to give to somebody. And it's really important to reflect on who she's overtaking,

    413

    00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:47,920

    you know, for dropping her that, that honorific. But yeah. And now I've gone too far in this discussion.

    414

    00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:54,080

    Well, that makes sense. Cause I mean, I would say I'm more of like a newer viewer. So I don't

    415

    00:38:54,080 --> 00:39:03,520

    like those previous people. So that's good to know. Do you think it's still like too early for the title?

    416

    00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:12,240

    No, I don't think like I, my same, the same things I say now are important. So let's say Yanya ends up

    417

    00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:16,960

    with a hundred gold medals, right? More gold medals than anybody in history. Like that's like

    418

    00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:23,440

    many times more than anyone else. I still think it's worth being able to name the people that came

    419

    00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:29,040

    before you. Right? Like if somebody says, Oh, Yanya won a hundred gold medals. No one's ever done that

    420

    00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:34,240

    before. It's still worth knowing, okay, who's in second place and how many medals do they have?

    421

    00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:39,440

    Right? Like that's a basic answer that I think you should be able to find before, before dropping the

    422

    00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:48,080

    title. But in general, I do think Yanya is probably the greatest female lead and Boulder athlete we've

    423

    00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:53,520

    ever seen. The hard part is there's very few people in history that have done that. And it might

    424

    00:39:53,520 --> 00:40:00,160

    actually be a historical anomaly in climbing to have athletes doing both. So prolifically,

    425

    00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:05,360

    when the Olympics goes to individual disciplines, which we're all quite certain at will at this

    426

    00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,720

    point, and as the fields get bigger and there's more serious competitors, I can totally see a

    427

    00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:16,320

    world where you have to focus on just lead or you have to focus on just Boulder in order to

    428

    00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:22,960

    be among the best. Setting has changed over the decades, the nature of competitions and

    429

    00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,440

    the incentives for doing one discipline or another, they have all changed. So it's possible we're in

    430

    00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:33,120

    this unique little pocket of time where we have all these talents who do both, right? This may

    431

    00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:38,800

    not last forever. It hasn't been a very common thing to see repeat finalists in both lead and

    432

    00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:44,400

    Boulder in a season. That's kind of pretty out there. And maybe that'll stop again. Who knows?

    433

    00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,000

    Well, I think that might mean like a future goat would be someone who

    434

    00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,960

    can do all of that despite not having to. Maybe. Yeah. And that's the, you know,

    435

    00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,360

    with these kinds of like subjective titles we give people, that's the hard part is comparing

    436

    00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:02,240

    someone in the future who's in a totally different situation than those today, right?

    437

    00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:08,160

    The two names I mentioned, Sandrine Lave and Liv Sensos, there was a very different time of climbing

    438

    00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:13,440

    for, for Sandrine, the format was entirely different, right? For both disciplines was a

    439

    00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:18,080

    totally different way of competing. The field was very different and there were different amounts

    440

    00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,800

    of competitions each year. There were generally more comps for most of her years each year.

    441

    00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,120

    So it was easier to rack up a higher medal count than someone like Yanya, for instance.

    442

    00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:35,680

    And for Liv Sensos, her bouldering wins when she swept, it was a 97 or 98, those competitions were

    443

    00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:41,600

    entirely within like France and Switzerland. It was a much more, you know, Eurocentric

    444

    00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:47,200

    comp scene. The field was much smaller, but she won all those medals in the same way that Yanya

    445

    00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,200

    did. So yeah, the context is really different and that's where it's hard to parse, right?

    446

    00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:58,640

    If it was as simple as just Yanya has X number of medals, Sandrine has Y and Liv has Z, it would be

    447

    00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,520

    a simple conversation, but yeah, just the nature of the way it's all evolved, it is much harder.

    448

    00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:09,120

    Yeah. Yeah. And then also what you were mentioning about getting rid of isolation. Why?

    449

    00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:16,240

    Yeah, that's like where me as a comp organizer is the driving factor for sure. It was interesting

    450

    00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:22,240

    and Sean and Matt did their podcast yesterday and that was something Sean mentioned to a similar

    451

    00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:30,720

    question. For me, one of my goals with bouldering specifically, although it's relevant to lead as

    452

    00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:36,800

    well, is to make the competitions a kind of format that requires less formal organization.

    453

    00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:44,000

    And ISO requires a little bit more space and it also requires more separation between athletes.

    454

    00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:49,760

    It puts restrictions on who's allowed in certain spaces. So like if you just kind of imagine

    455

    00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:55,680

    maybe your home gym or gyms nowadays are like bigger and bigger, so it's maybe not as much of

    456

    00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:00,880

    an issue, but the idea of having to like close off an entire wall so nobody can see it often

    457

    00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,720

    means for different gyms that the venue is just closed and that they're not allowed to be in

    458

    00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:10,240

    gyms that the venue is just closed and nobody's allowed inside. So being able to open up

    459

    00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,000

    settings so that people can watch the setting or the setting isn't necessarily blocked off

    460

    00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,680

    would be great. Not having to store athletes who are warming up in a separate room, in a

    461

    00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:28,000

    separate building, like the Salt Lake City World Cups, the climbers warm up at the USA training

    462

    00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,040

    center and then they get put in a car and driven to the venue where they have a secondary warm up.

    463

    00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,920

    That's a huge logistical just like waste of time that also costs money, right?

    464

    00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,520

    And then lastly, just from like a crowd and spectator perspective, honestly, I really like

    465

    00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:49,200

    the idea of the crowd being able to yell beta at climbers who are on the wall. That sounds

    466

    00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:54,240

    like a blast to me because most people give shit beta in the first place, but I think that would

    467

    00:43:54,240 --> 00:44:00,240

    be a lot of fun. Now I don't think there is a comp format necessarily where the only change you make

    468

    00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:06,160

    is just like cross out the isolation part and just use the current World Cup format. That's just like

    469

    00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:11,280

    an element to a bouldering competition that I think would be really interesting. And the formats

    470

    00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,320

    would probably have to be different and there's a bunch of different options for that.

    471

    00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,920

    Garrett Greger has played around with some of those options. He had a Portland boulder rally

    472

    00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:26,800

    a couple of years ago with that kind of concept. I think the guys at the boulder fields did the

    473

    00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,160

    same, but I think that would be an interesting like kind of shift. Yeah, I think one time I saw

    474

    00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:38,800

    this competition. Maybe it was like the World Games or something where they didn't have isolation and

    475

    00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:45,680

    it was just it was on it. Yeah, possibly. So you like literally just want that because of the

    476

    00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:51,360

    logistical. Yeah, logistical and I think it opens up I think it makes you think differently about

    477

    00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:57,360

    what a boulder comp is. I think right now where it is very much like the athletes are only competing

    478

    00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:02,560

    against the wall. They don't get to see each other. They don't get to climb in response to each other.

    479

    00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,440

    I don't really love that. And I think if you get rid of ISO, it gives you more options to how

    480

    00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:12,560

    a boulder competition for instance would run. So that's just one element, I guess. Yeah.

    481

    00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,800

    You don't think it'd be like harder for route setters to create separation

    482

    00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:22,960

    if they could all see each other climb. I think that's a super relevant concern if you use the

    483

    00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:28,720

    current format. Yeah. So if let's say you are forced to climb a boulder for five minutes,

    484

    00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:33,120

    and I just get to watch you for five minutes and then I go after, yeah, I'm gonna have a way better

    485

    00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,760

    chance of topping thanks to watching you, you know, run some run some attempts on that thing.

    486

    00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:44,400

    That's totally true. And that's like one of those reasons why it's probably not compatible with just

    487

    00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,000

    like a regular World Cup format. You would probably have to make some other changes.

    488

    00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,320

    But yeah, I think that's something when people talk about comp formats, it's kind of important

    489

    00:45:52,320 --> 00:46:01,360

    to consider like, don't necessarily start with the current format. I think a lot of people's

    490

    00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:06,000

    habits are to take the existing World Cup format and want to change individual lines

    491

    00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:11,200

    and just make these little adjustments. I think those can really stack up and create problems.

    492

    00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:16,160

    It's often just easier to say, what do I want the experience of the climber to be like? What do I

    493

    00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:21,200

    want the experience of the route setter to be like, or the audience member to be like, and start

    494

    00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:26,080

    building honestly from scratch. And that's a really fun mental exercise to think about, okay, what do

    495

    00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:31,440

    I want scoring to look like? What is the best boulder and how do we get them to demonstrate it

    496

    00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:36,400

    in an hour? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what that would be like. I've also seen some like flash

    497

    00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:42,240

    competitions. Like one attempt comps, you mean? Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great idea. I love

    498

    00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:48,800

    that. That's super fun. Yeah. Now, so long as I guess the one thing I'll say is I don't enjoy

    499

    00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:54,720

    the competitions where they get to try the boulders before the comp. I super, super hate that.

    500

    00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:01,280

    But yeah, like a comp format we thought would be really fun one time was just to just imagine

    501

    00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:07,440

    this as an experiment, okay? A boulder wall with let's say nine boulders on it. And every competitor

    502

    00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:12,560

    gets exactly nine attempts total. And which boulders they get to use those on is up to them.

    503

    00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:17,280

    You can use one attempt on every boulder, or you can use some of those on just boulder number one,

    504

    00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,960

    some of those on boulder number two and boulder number three, and you ignore the next six, right?

    505

    00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:25,200

    So now obviously there are like lots of different considerations about how you're going to route set

    506

    00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:30,240

    for this, but it's really interesting if you start just like pulling apart comp formats,

    507

    00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:35,520

    completely and just start from fresh. Like you and me, you and me, nine boulders in front of us.

    508

    00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,840

    We both have nine attempts. Are you going to climb first? Are you going to wait for me to climb first?

    509

    00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,160

    Which boulder are you going to choose if you're allowed to choose, right? Maybe we just say there's

    510

    00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,720

    no running order. You just get to start on whichever one you want and you don't have to go in a

    511

    00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:53,760

    particular direction. And you can just watch Tyler climb for 30 minutes before you try your attempts.

    512

    00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,000

    Like, yeah, I think it's really fun when you start thinking about this stuff. And you also start to

    513

    00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:03,520

    realize like, oh, there's a lot of comp format ideas I can try just with me and my friends at the gym.

    514

    00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:08,560

    You're just like, Hey guys, there's a new set on the wall. Let's try this thing. We get nine attempts

    515

    00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:13,360

    tonight and we see how many tops we can all get, but you just get nine attempts. So I think that's

    516

    00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,640

    something people should try out is just like, try a new game with you and your friends and see what's fun.

    517

    00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:22,480

    Well, I mean, you are the one who organizes competitions and works at a gym. So I think

    518

    00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,320

    you're the one who should take that on in my own little way. Yeah, yeah, I try to.

    519

    00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:36,960

    Yeah. Okay. Some other hot takes I wanted to see if you had opinions on. A lot of people talk about

    520

    00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:44,160

    not caring about the overall title anymore, I guess, like the season title or like not caring

    521

    00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:50,320

    about world champs, other than it being an Olympic qualifier. Do you have any thoughts on that?

    522

    00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:56,560

    Yeah, I guess I do. Like starting with world championships, it's one of those things you wish

    523

    00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:03,120

    you could do every year, right? That's the one sad thing is it certainly feels structured at this

    524

    00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:12,240

    point to be a qualifying event for an Olympic games, which is a little frustrating. I would love

    525

    00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:16,320

    it if every year we could have a culminating event where we get to see the best climbers in the world.

    526

    00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:21,760

    I think that would be a lot more fun than having it every two years. For the overall,

    527

    00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:29,200

    this is a hard one because in climbing our circuit has like relatively few events.

    528

    00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:36,160

    And I think a lot of the awareness of this topic, it's curious, maybe it's not a coincidence that

    529

    00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:41,440

    this conversation has come up when F1 has become this new sport that so many of us now have a much

    530

    00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:46,960

    better understanding of than we did before. And that sport has a very clear, very important season

    531

    00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:52,640

    ranking across the entire year, but they're dealing with something like 20 to 25 races,

    532

    00:49:52,640 --> 00:50:00,080

    I think, every year. And the way it's structured out is there are some drivers in F1 who they might

    533

    00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:06,320

    get no score for a bunch of these races because they crash or they come too low in the placings,

    534

    00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,080

    but you're still able to be competitive even though you miss a few events.

    535

    00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:15,200

    In climbing where lately we're pretty much averaging about six events per year for each

    536

    00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:24,000

    discipline, if you miss two events and then you have a abnormally low event in one of the other

    537

    00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:30,800

    stops, you're pretty much out. So having an overall season with this number of events is

    538

    00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:37,680

    actually functionally really difficult to make it genuinely competitive.

    539

    00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:42,320

    So you're going to end up with a lot of situations where because there's so few events and you earn

    540

    00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:48,400

    so many points for each one, you can be in the final event of the year and there could be like

    541

    00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:53,680

    10 different people that could win, right? Conversely, you can get to the end of the year

    542

    00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:58,560

    and Yanya Garmbrat is at the event and she can be miles ahead of everybody else, but because she

    543

    00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:05,280

    missed two events in the season, she is just not in consideration, right? Two events, just two events,

    544

    00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:11,280

    and that puts her out. So I think our overall season has some work that needs to be done before

    545

    00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:19,440

    it could be considered a really clean kind of spectator product to understand. I think more

    546

    00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:24,960

    focus does need to be put on it because generally the top three people each season had really great

    547

    00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:35,760

    seasons and we should laud those people for a great performance. And the basics of this are we

    548

    00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:41,200

    should show that overall season podium at the end of the year, right? We should actually see it. I

    549

    00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,360

    think it was last year or the year before where we didn't even get to see them award the bouldering

    550

    00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:52,080

    podium for the overall season. That's too crappy a way to end a year, right? So we at least got to

    551

    00:51:52,080 --> 00:52:00,640

    show those performances. But I think one cool thing that's happening this year, and it probably

    552

    00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:06,400

    won't happen every year in the future, but this year ends with an event that is all three

    553

    00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:12,320

    disciplines. The final event of the year is going to be speed and bouldering and lead. So this really

    554

    00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:17,200

    cool thing is happening where all of those storylines for all three disciplines are going to end at

    555

    00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:23,440

    the same time. And I think that is also a nice improvement where even though technically it's

    556

    00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:28,960

    not a world championship, depending on how the year plays out and depending on who's too tired

    557

    00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:33,200

    from the Olympics and decides they don't want to show up and depending on who's got the points,

    558

    00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:38,800

    you could end up with that final comp of the year having like all the big stars in attendance

    559

    00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:43,760

    fighting for those overall points and having all three disciplines doing it. And it kind of becomes

    560

    00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:50,880

    this quasi world championship unofficially. So I'm a little scared. The other two things are kind

    561

    00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:56,000

    of tough to talk about because there's just these practical problems with them. But that's one thing

    562

    00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,720

    I'm really psyched about this season for is ending it with a speed boulder and lead World Cup. It's

    563

    00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:05,760

    been since I think 2015, Haiyang in China was the last time there was a World Cup that had all three

    564

    00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,960

    disciplines in it. So it's really rare. It's really, really rare. But we get one. So I'm psyched.

    565

    00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,000

    Yeah. Do you know why they decide to do that this year?

    566

    00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:21,280

    So if I remember right, the last World Cup is going to be in South Korea. They are the hosts of

    567

    00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:28,000

    the 2025 World Championships, right? So I think what it is, is if you're going to host a world

    568

    00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:34,320

    championship, you must, the country that's hosting the World Championship must have hosted events,

    569

    00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:39,520

    I believe in all three disciplines in the year before. So it's a really, really rare event.

    570

    00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,360

    In the year before. So it's basically written into the book that if you're going to host a

    571

    00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:48,640

    world championship, you need to prove that you are capable of running a speed event and a boulder

    572

    00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:55,520

    event and a lead event in the year leading up to that. So I'm pretty sure that's probably why it's

    573

    00:53:55,520 --> 00:54:01,840

    all happening that way. Korea hasn't held a lead event in I think about 10 years as well, like

    574

    00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:07,360

    maybe 2014 or something. We know they can do boulder and speed because we've seen it the last

    575

    00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:12,240

    couple of seasons, I think, but they need to prove it on lead. And so for whatever reason,

    576

    00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:17,040

    in terms of like when in the year it is, I don't know why necessarily the IFSC put it at the end

    577

    00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:21,200

    of the year, but I believe that's why you're seeing all three happen at one event.

    578

    00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:29,840

    LSW Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, when you were talking about the F1 stuff and having like a bunch

    579

    00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:40,000

    of competitions, I didn't know they did that many. That's like an insane amount. I can't imagine

    580

    00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:45,360

    at the state competition climbing is in right now that that would be feasible at all considering

    581

    00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:51,440

    how expensive it would be for athletes to attend these and then like not even win much money from

    582

    00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,400

    them, especially given their current budgets. So.

    583

    00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:59,040

    CB And there's also not a lot of countries that are able to host world cups. Like hosting world

    584

    00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:03,840

    cups is very expensive. So it's just simply not an option for the most part.

    585

    00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:10,000

    LSW And I think that also reminds me of like the environmental impact that people are talking

    586

    00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:16,960

    about when it comes to going to competitions. I think that was a big thing with the like

    587

    00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:24,240

    Neom games in like Saudi Arabia. Yeah. Any thoughts on that one?

    588

    00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:30,720

    CB I was just really surprised that the environmental angle was the one that everybody

    589

    00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:34,480

    had a problem with for that event. I shouldn't say everybody because I know like within my

    590

    00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:40,320

    discord, possibly within your discord on the maybe the comp climbing subreddit,

    591

    00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:46,400

    people mentioned the facts that like, oh, hey, this competition is entirely paid for by the

    592

    00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:52,160

    Saudi Royals who have a terrible record of killing journalists, jailing people for tweeting,

    593

    00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:57,040

    and just an awful human rights record and are diving into all of these different sports right

    594

    00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:02,560

    now because they're in this genuinely unfortunate position where their economy is driven entirely

    595

    00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,800

    by oil, which the entire world is trying to get away from. And they're realizing, oh,

    596

    00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:12,000

    shit, we've got this giant country full of people that need jobs and we can't rely on oil. We have

    597

    00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:17,680

    to diversify, which is like a fair objective for any country, right? But the way they're doing that

    598

    00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:22,720

    is we're taking our oil money and us as a, you know, a Royal family, we're going to buy up

    599

    00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:27,920

    as many sports properties. I shouldn't just say it's everything. It's technology, it's business.

    600

    00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:33,280

    They are trying to just like take these different parts of the world's economy

    601

    00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:38,400

    and take it into their kingdom so that they can basically treat it as their own and kind of

    602

    00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:45,920

    sustain their country, which is fair. The frustrating part is, you know, in my opinion,

    603

    00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:53,200

    the IFSC is a sport organization that is desperate for funding, which is true for the most part.

    604

    00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,480

    It doesn't have the funding like a lot of other sports that will change with the Olympics, but

    605

    00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,600

    most sports money like always seems to be a problem for whatever reason.

    606

    00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,560

    So we are exactly the kind of people that would be like, yes, absolutely. Please, please give us

    607

    00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:12,160

    whatever money you can take and we'll absolutely host this competition. And I think that same

    608

    00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:20,160

    instinct among climbing fans, which may trend towards a more like, like liberal worldview,

    609

    00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:24,240

    where we would care about the environmental impact of our sport, even though, you know,

    610

    00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:32,240

    every sport out there from the NFL to F1, most of these sports have ginormous environmental impacts.

    611

    00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:38,800

    It's interesting that that, that, that instinct in us to worry about the environment and to care

    612

    00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:47,360

    about things like that also was a little drastic, like surprisingly silent when we took a call up

    613

    00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:53,200

    and basically white labeled the world cup in Saudi Arabia. There are trans climbers, there are gay

    614

    00:57:53,200 --> 00:58:01,520

    climbers, there are climbers who in the last couple of years have been, well, we can take Iran,

    615

    00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:06,480

    for example, we've had climbers that have been deeply oppressed by their governments. We have

    616

    00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:12,960

    climbers who have been punished because Russia, for example, you know, Russia does a crazy thing

    617

    00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:19,040

    by invading a neighbor. And now those climbers are punished because of that action. It's surprising

    618

    00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:24,160

    that we were okay with going to Saudi Arabia and thinking like, yeah, this is a good thing. Hashtag

    619

    00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:30,160

    discover neon everybody. We're psyched to be here. That was a little surprising. I thought there would

    620

    00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:38,400

    be a bit more noise from everybody. Yeah. In talking to athletes and talking to people involved,

    621

    00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:48,080

    there is a, the word is, is, is lost to me right now. It's on the tip of my tongue.

    622

    00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:53,840

    So I'm just going to use the word acceptance. It seems like there is a reluctant acceptance

    623

    00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:59,760

    that this is what pro sports is, especially if you're involved in like the Olympic world,

    624

    00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:05,520

    where for whatever reason we decide we want everyone involved and we claim it's about peace.

    625

    00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:11,440

    But, you know, we ejected Russia for what, two years and now, now they're back.

    626

    00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,720

    We're willing to have all of these national partners that have, you know, objectionable

    627

    00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:22,640

    human rights records from Saudi Arabia, the China to whoever you want. You get out a ton of people

    628

    00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,800

    on this. You get out the United States that list at different parts in their history, right? Like

    629

    00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:32,400

    that's, that's not a stretch. So it's, it's interesting to watch the climbing community,

    630

    00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:39,040

    not just the athletes or the organizers, but also just the fans have to think about that and decide

    631

    00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:43,360

    whether these things are important to us or not, whether you're not, you're going to watch neon.

    632

    00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:50,640

    Yeah, it's interesting. The environmental impact is a totally fair question. I would just say,

    633

    00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:54,960

    um, and maybe there are people suggesting an alternative and I just haven't seen it,

    634

    00:59:54,960 --> 01:00:00,560

    but I think you do have to ask a practical question like, okay, do you want international

    635

    01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:04,480

    competitive climbing? Well, we need climbers from different parts of the world to meet up

    636

    01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:10,240

    in the same spot to do this, right? Um, so that's just a practical limitation that has to be like,

    637

    01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:14,960

    honestly discussed. Yeah, I don't really know how we would get around that, but, um, yeah,

    638

    01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:19,280

    I definitely was surprised that it was the environmental issues and not like the,

    639

    01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:24,960

    the political issues that people were discussing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for elaborating on that.

    640

    01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:30,400

    I feel like I didn't even know that's like the reason why they started to create the games. I

    641

    01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:37,600

    just thought they were like, oh, it's fun to host sports. Yeah. I won't like, I'm not going to like

    642

    01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:42,480

    retread it or go too deep in it, but yeah, Saudi Arabia just economically has a really big question

    643

    01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:48,000

    that they're having to deal with. Um, and, and there's nothing wrong with trying to rejuvenate

    644

    01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:55,520

    your economy. Um, but it means for a lot of us, uh, Saudi Arabia has tons and tons and tons of

    645

    01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,920

    money, like so much money, and it is all controlled directly by their government.

    646

    01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:06,640

    So when an event is held by a government company, you're saying, okay, we're, we want to team up

    647

    01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:13,280

    with the government directly. Right? So this isn't just a competition being held, you know, by, by a

    648

    01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:17,920

    gym in the Netherlands or a gym in the USA. This is a gym being held in the Netherlands that is

    649

    01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:23,840

    paid for by the government of the Netherlands or the government of the USA. And it's up to us

    650

    01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:29,040

    whether or not we want to take that money. Cause that paycheck came basically directly from the

    651

    01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:34,800

    kingdom of Saudi Arabia straight to the IFSC. Um, and we got to decide if we want to work with a

    652

    01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:42,720

    government like that. Yeah. Very interesting food for thought. Um, okay. Last, uh, competition hot

    653

    01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:50,080

    take the new red S policy that came out. Yeah. Did you get a chance to look at that? Uh, so

    654

    01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:56,320

    months ago, I looked at the IOCs, um, policy that they put out. I can't remember what it's called,

    655

    01:01:56,320 --> 01:02:02,000

    but they did like kind of a recent, uh, rewrite of their red S policy. Um, interest, and I can't

    656

    01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:06,000

    remember her name, but one of the big doctors in this is actually from down the road at McMaster

    657

    01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:12,000

    university in Hamilton nearby. I think her last name is Mount joy. Um, so it was cool seeing like

    658

    01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:19,280

    a local connection to, to this stuff. Um, yeah, I'm really excited that we have a much more specific

    659

    01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:27,200

    policy that lays out quite concrete steps for how it's supposed to work. Um, like any policy, the,

    660

    01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,480

    what we're going to have to judge them on is how it is implemented. Um,

    661

    01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:40,560

    federations get to perform most of these tests on their own. Uh, so we have to see if federations

    662

    01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:47,120

    are keeping their athletes interests in mind, or if, uh, if they're going to fudge some numbers or,

    663

    01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:53,120

    or be a little less than truthful for the sake of maybe keeping some of their best athletes in play,

    664

    01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:58,160

    which earns those federations money. So that's something to be wary of is if you have your best

    665

    01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:03,760

    athlete winning all these goals and they're an Olympic hopeful, you might get a ton of money

    666

    01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:09,120

    from your country's government because you have an Olympic metal hopeful. Um, whereas if you take

    667

    01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:13,440

    them out of play because they're unhealthy, you lose a lot of money. And that's, that's just like

    668

    01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:18,960

    a genuine conflict of interest that we have to be aware of. Uh, and then lastly is how the random

    669

    01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:23,200

    tests work. Um, who's going to be performing those, how often they're going to, they're going to be

    670

    01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:27,920

    performed. How is that stuff going to be enforced? So I'm really optimistic that we have an improved

    671

    01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:34,000

    policy. I'm really excited that the athletes were so involved in it. That is awesome. Um, but now

    672

    01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,800

    we have to judge it on how it's implemented. And that was really the weakness of the last one was

    673

    01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:44,480

    there was a policy, but all of a sudden it stopped being enforced. And that's when all the trouble

    674

    01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:50,080

    happened was when nobody was enforcing it anymore. So over the next year, the next couple of years,

    675

    01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:55,280

    let's see how it goes. So cautiously optimistic, I guess, is what I would say. Maybe I misread it,

    676

    01:03:55,280 --> 01:04:01,360

    but I thought that this was done this like testing and everything was going to be done at the IFSC

    677

    01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:10,320

    level. Yeah. So on the second page, um, national federation responsibilities. So step one is

    678

    01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:17,840

    basically you guys do the tests. Um, and then, uh, all that stuff kind of gets sent to the IFSC

    679

    01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:24,080

    basically just saying, Hey, this athlete is good or this athlete is not. Um, the random testing is,

    680

    01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:30,560

    is monitored by the IFSC. Um, but yeah, so, so there's still some national federation

    681

    01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:35,200

    involvement and stuff. I just thought, I also just thought like a questionnaire was kind of funny

    682

    01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:41,120

    because you could just lie, right? It's like pretty obvious what they're looking for. So,

    683

    01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:46,080

    yeah, yeah. And that's, that's where that random testing is really important. We, you know,

    684

    01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:50,880

    is that random testing going to be frequent? Is it going to be impartial? Uh, and, and is it going

    685

    01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,200

    to be enforced or is it going to be the kind of thing that athletes can just appeal to the ends

    686

    01:04:55,200 --> 01:05:00,720

    of the earth and, and, and effectively like nullify it? Like, yeah, they tested me and they said I was

    687

    01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:06,880

    in the orange zone or the red zone, but I'm just going to take it up with every, every judge and

    688

    01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:13,680

    every court of arbitration possible and basically just get away with it for, for years, like don't

    689

    01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:18,400

    really know. So we kind of got to see it play out. We'll see how it goes in the upcoming season.

    690

    01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:24,720

    And speaking of the upcoming season, I'm sure you have a lot of season predictions.

    691

    01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:31,760

    I'm terrible at this. Like if I participated in like sports betting, I would be out so much

    692

    01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:41,120

    money at this point, just based on what already happened in terms of Olympic selection. So I

    693

    01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:47,520

    guess, first of all, I'm not sure if you have any insight on this. I'm wondering if a lot of athletes

    694

    01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:54,480

    will be pulling out of competitions leading up to the Olympics and after, and what, like how that

    695

    01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,040

    would change the season if people aren't present.

    696

    01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:05,520

    Yeah, I don't have any insight. And I also, all I can really talk about is kind of what we saw in

    697

    01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:15,200

    29 or sorry, in 2020. In 2020, I think Alberto Ginez Lopez was the only Olympic athlete to attend

    698

    01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:21,840

    like almost every comp before the Olympics itself. And so the joke was he tired himself out and was

    699

    01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:28,240

    going to perform like shit. And then of course he becomes the gold medalist somehow at 2020,

    700

    01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:36,320

    of course, a year later. I don't know, but I'm sure most of them will take some time off. The

    701

    01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,160

    early part of the season is going to be interesting depending on when athletes want to peak,

    702

    01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:46,720

    obviously. So some athletes may postpone their season up to the OQS events, but I guess most of

    703

    01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:51,440

    them are going to compete just as a warmup, see where they are as some like basic testing, get

    704

    01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:56,160

    back in the flow of competing. It's going to be the events around the Olympics where I would expect

    705

    01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:01,040

    you start to see more and more names drop off. Whatever the last world cup is before the Olympics,

    706

    01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:06,720

    there's that if you want to place a bet on like, oh, at this comp, you'll see somebody win a gold

    707

    01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:11,280

    medal who's never won a gold medal before. Whatever comp that is, that's probably a pretty good bet

    708

    01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:17,200

    that you're going to see a first time gold medalist at that last event before the Olympics as they

    709

    01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:22,720

    start to transition. Now I say that and some differences from last time. I don't know what

    710

    01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:32,080

    Paris is like in the summer, but for Tokyo, there was a lot of concern that it was going to be very

    711

    01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:39,040

    hot and we were going to have to do a lot of travel to get used to that. And so maybe since

    712

    01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:43,120

    most of our athletes are European, maybe you're going to see more competitors since they're in

    713

    01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:48,800

    Europe already. It might not be as big a deal. I don't know. We'll see what happens because the

    714

    01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:53,360

    circuit still does travel around quite a lot beforehand. So they might skip some continents,

    715

    01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:58,000

    but that's always been something that a lot of athletes have done is skip a leg here and there

    716

    01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:03,040

    based on their own personal condition. But yeah, we'll see what happens. I think attendance will be

    717

    01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:08,560

    cut off a little more than usual though. Do you like watching a competition where there's

    718

    01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:15,760

    lesser known competitors? No, not really. I think I'm definitely a bit of an elitist when it comes

    719

    01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:20,160

    to watching comp climbing. I really do just want to see the best six climbers over and over.

    720

    01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:27,760

    Honestly, if you just gave me a women's final, just Yanya, I, Chayun, Brooke, Natalia, and Jesse

    721

    01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:33,040

    Pills or pick your six, Laura or something like that, I could watch that 10 times, 10 times a

    722

    01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:38,160

    row. I don't care. I don't need to see new names coming up just pipping up for a single final.

    723

    01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:43,840

    I forgot Orienne, I guess. Sorry, Orienne. Yeah, that's a harsh one to miss, especially

    724

    01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,840

    because she just won the French national bouldering champs today. She's a great athlete.

    725

    01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:53,760

    The French national bouldering champs today. Yeah, I would happily just watch that field climb over

    726

    01:08:53,760 --> 01:09:01,600

    and over and over. I don't care too much about new faces. When they show up and start being

    727

    01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:10,640

    regulars, that's awesome. But I don't watch a ton of national comps. A lot of people seem to enjoy

    728

    01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:15,760

    the story of, wow, isn't it cool that this person is having the best comp day of their life and they

    729

    01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:21,120

    made it to finals. I don't really care about that. I much prefer to talk about these are the best

    730

    01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:28,240

    climbers of this generation and let's find all the little differences between them. Let's see who

    731

    01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:32,080

    needs three attempts on this kind of move and only one attempt on that kind of move. That's the stuff

    732

    01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:37,840

    I love is the very best climbers. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think a lot of people would agree with that.

    733

    01:09:38,480 --> 01:09:44,560

    I think that's one of the reasons why I really want there to be a newish climber who just suddenly

    734

    01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:49,600

    explodes on the scene and then can stay there for a really long time. Because I think that would

    735

    01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:57,040

    garner a lot of interest and talk within the climbing community, but also maybe outside of

    736

    01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:06,800

    the climbing community and grow the sport. I just really want Serato to go really far or totally.

    737

    01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:14,480

    Yeah, I think that's super fair. The athletes that I will always have a special place in

    738

    01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:19,440

    my heart were the ones who debuted in 2019 because that was the first year that John and I did the

    739

    01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:26,720

    debrief. Specifically, I, Maury and Chy-Yan Suh both came out of nowhere that year. I, Maury,

    740

    01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:33,680

    not so much. She only got one bronze medal or something like that, but Chy-Yan Suh, never seen

    741

    01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:40,160

    her before. Yanni Garnbret just won the entire World Cup boulder season and she's a lead climber

    742

    01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,920

    at the time. You're a lead climber. You just won the whole boulder season. Now you're coming to

    743

    01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:48,480

    lead. You're obviously going to win it all. Then this little kid from Korea absolutely destroys.

    744

    01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:53,680

    Getting to witness that was amazing. I think you may find, I don't know which year was your

    745

    01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:59,040

    first if it was last season, but my guess is you may end up developing a connection with somebody

    746

    01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:04,400

    like Serato the same way that I feel for Chy-Yan where it's like, oh, you came up the same year

    747

    01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:10,320

    I did. For that reason, you're like, you mean a little bit more to me. But yeah, there will

    748

    01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:15,280

    always be those new people. They'll come and it'll be a shock when they show up and it'll be amazing.

    749

    01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:21,600

    Well, the thing is they have to stay because especially with the Olympics, I guess I'm just

    750

    01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:26,960

    thinking about how Michael Phelps is huge and he stayed in the scene for so many years and

    751

    01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:35,040

    got so many medals. I feel like that's what we need to grow the sport and for people here.

    752

    01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:40,080

    Because who watches swimming? Yeah, nobody. I think that's something we should be really

    753

    01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:44,160

    conscious of is like not a lot of people watch climbing. And so I think like going back to the

    754

    01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:48,960

    format thing, it's worth rethinking our format. Maybe we don't have to feel married to this. We

    755

    01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:54,400

    have room to experiment. It's really important to grow viewership. But yeah, I think having Yanya is

    756

    01:11:55,200 --> 01:12:01,600

    exceptional. The only thing more you could ask for her is that she would be American.

    757

    01:12:02,480 --> 01:12:07,200

    There is just like an American bump in media coverage and like, yo, the US media,

    758

    01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:11,680

    if they have an incredible athlete, they will blow them up on every billboard and they will

    759

    01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:16,480

    become like international names regardless of what sport they're in. If Yanya was American,

    760

    01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:21,600

    she would be a superstar. She would be Simone Biles. It would be unbelievable.

    761

    01:12:22,480 --> 01:12:29,440

    But I think Yanya is that person. Yanya is a generational talent for sure. So I think

    762

    01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:35,280

    we're really lucky we have her and I expect the next like kind of five or 10 years is probably

    763

    01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:41,200

    going to be more like, you know, the way climbing history, especially in women's field is you usually

    764

    01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:45,840

    have like two or three athletes that are all right at the top together and no one is necessarily

    765

    01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:54,240

    dominant. So I think this Yanya period will slowly trickle off and you'll have a couple names.

    766

    01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:58,960

    But I think enjoy Yanya while she lasts as being like the singular dominant athlete,

    767

    01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,600

    because it may be a long time before we get somebody else like that.

    768

    01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:05,680

    Yeah, I guess the only issue is that she's not American.

    769

    01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:10,960

    Yeah, exactly. Maybe we can convince her to, yo, get her to marry an American guy, get over there

    770

    01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:13,760

    and yeah, we'll do whatever we have to. Yeah.

    771

    01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:14,800

    Be good for the sport.

    772

    01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:16,020

    Yeah.

    773

    01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:18,640

    Who are your favorites for the Olympics?

    774

    01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:28,320

    It's much harder on the men's side. For the women's, I would, there are caveats to all these

    775

    01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:33,600

    things always, so I'm not even going to bother. Yanya Garbritt is my pick for women's lead.

    776

    01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:39,120

    I think it would be silly to pick anybody other than Alexandra Miroslav for women's speed.

    777

    01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:45,200

    For men's lead in Boulder, bro, I don't even like, that's such a crap shoot and that's the

    778

    01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:49,600

    beauty of the men's field is like, you can make a list of seven names and they've all got a chance.

    779

    01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:54,400

    I think Serato and Rakuh is looking like an excellent choice though.

    780

    01:13:54,400 --> 01:14:03,840

    And then for the men's speed, I love that. I love having,

    781

    01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:12,560

    it's hard for me because the two Indonesian guys, I think of them as a duo. I'm not sure I want

    782

    01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:20,800

    Kiramel or Vedrik to become like way, way, way better than the other. I love having them as this

    783

    01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:24,880

    duo that are kind of neck and neck and win for their own different reasons and have different

    784

    01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:29,360

    personalities. So I don't, I would really like it if it was an Indonesian one too. And of course,

    785

    01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:36,960

    we already know that that's not going to happen because they're not both going to be at the Olympic

    786

    01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:42,160

    Games. For men's speed, yeah, that's a tough one. I'm not really sure who I want to go with for that

    787

    01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:47,920

    one. Okay. I'll pander for my men's pick and speed. This one goes out to those in the know,

    788

    01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:53,440

    but yeah, I'll pick Sam Watson for it because you Americans could really use a win.

    789

    01:14:54,960 --> 01:15:00,080

    That would help us a lot, frankly, as a sport. So you're my pick. Okay. Yeah.

    790

    01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:10,160

    Yeah. I mean, I guess it's less likely on the lead and bolder side. Actually, that reminds me,

    791

    01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:17,760

    one of the surprises for me qualifying for the Olympics was, I think, the fact that I was

    792

    01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:23,920

    calling so early. I mean, eventually, sure, but I didn't know he was having, I mean, he wasn't

    793

    01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:29,840

    having like a super great season. No, this was a terrible season for the American men, like, yeah,

    794

    01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:35,520

    for, well, American men in Boulder and lead specifically, not so much speed, but yeah.

    795

    01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:40,480

    Yeah. Was there any other athlete that you were like surprised about qualifying?

    796

    01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:47,680

    I think I would probably say like for the lead and stuff, I think really just Jesse Pills being

    797

    01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:51,680

    right at the top. That's probably the one name that I didn't quite expect. Like I thought that

    798

    01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:59,600

    top three would be more along the lines of like Yanya I. Brooke or Yanya Brooke or Yan or something

    799

    01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:05,040

    like that. So Jesse is always like right there on the edge. And of course she's always relevant

    800

    01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:11,040

    whenever she's in a final, but I think she would have been like, like fourth, fifth or sixth for me.

    801

    01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:14,560

    But yeah, I think with a lot of these events, like especially in the combined,

    802

    01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:19,840

    I don't feel too surprised anymore at most of the results. Yeah. I don't know.

    803

    01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:27,840

    Okay. Yeah. I think for me, as a newish viewer, I know Jacob is super decorated,

    804

    01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:35,840

    but I just like haven't seen him compete that much the past couple of years. And so I did not know

    805

    01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,840

    he was going to, yeah, I didn't know he was going to qualify so early.

    806

    01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:45,120

    Yeah. I think Jacob is, is one of the unsung heroes and the, I think the time you should,

    807

    01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:53,200

    like, I don't think there's any content around this, but he did, he won seven lead world cups

    808

    01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:59,840

    in a row in 2011. He would have been 21 years old and he was competing against guys that were like,

    809

    01:17:00,480 --> 01:17:06,240

    kind of like six to 10 years older than him. And he absolutely dominated that season. He didn't

    810

    01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:10,320

    win the world championships because it was like Ramon, like one of the Spanish guys that won that.

    811

    01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:19,120

    But if, you know, like if Yanya's, if Yanya six in a row was impressive in 2019, like Jacob is

    812

    01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:24,880

    right up there winning seven out of seven in a row, but I think it was like a 10 world cup season

    813

    01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:29,040

    in 2011. Like there used to be like way more world cups. A lot of these years you would like fit in

    814

    01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:36,160

    10, 10 lead world cups in one year plus a world championships. Yeah. And I think he's, I think

    815

    01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:40,720

    that's what was kind of messed up is Jacob Schubert's peak. His like peak in terms of

    816

    01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:47,760

    metal count per season was 13 years ago. Yeah, that's crazy. And he's going in a still as an

    817

    01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:56,320

    Olympic favorite at this time, right? Like there he's not, he's, it's not worth underestimating him

    818

    01:17:56,320 --> 01:18:01,360

    like at any corner. He can turn up whenever. And I'm not necessarily saying he's consistent

    819

    01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:07,600

    because he isn't, but Charlie Bosco like kind of mentioned leading up to the last Olympics that,

    820

    01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:16,800

    that Jacob just has like a big game player mentality. He suits up for the big moments.

    821

    01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:22,560

    And when it comes to world championships, he is ready on those days. I think you have to go back

    822

    01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:27,760

    like over like 12 years before you find a lead world championship where Jacob wasn't first or

    823

    01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:34,160

    second, the guy shows up. He is unbelievable. So I wouldn't necessarily put them as my bet to win the

    824

    01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:39,280

    world cup. I just said it would be probably Serato and Raku, right? But not going to be shocked to

    825

    01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:45,760

    become second or third or first. You never know, man. He's, he's incredible. Okay. Yeah. Really

    826

    01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:51,600

    good to learn about the, the history of competitions. I feel like you were a great person to ask about

    827

    01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:58,880

    all these things. So yeah, going into the discord questions, we have a couple here.

    828

    01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:05,360

    So do you think there is an absence of professional climbing media and our non-professional

    829

    01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:10,320

    channels doing an adequate job at filling that space? What do we need to do to get content to

    830

    01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:15,680

    the next level? I don't think there's a lack of climbing media. I think there's a lot of like

    831

    01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:24,560

    really good climbing media. I think as much as like the, you know, us being like a fashion item

    832

    01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:29,440

    is kind of annoying. And I know that will die off and like Gucci and whatever, they're not going to

    833

    01:19:29,440 --> 01:19:33,680

    do climbing stuff in a couple of years. This is a fad and we're not going to matter to them anymore.

    834

    01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:39,200

    I think the public is generally interested in like climbing media. I think climbing outside is

    835

    01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:45,840

    beautiful and the personalities are incredible. And that kind of adventure content is standout.

    836

    01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:53,120

    And we have so many good people involved in, in climbing media in general. But if it is narrowed

    837

    01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:58,640

    to competition, the climbing media, then it's obviously a really different question.

    838

    01:20:02,160 --> 01:20:07,600

    The hard part is like, there's not a lot of people doing it. I'm really glad you're here doing some

    839

    01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:13,760

    of it. Like we need everybody we can get for real, right? Like every voice matters. But the hard part

    840

    01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:20,160

    is like how many of us are doing it as a living, right? You know, John Bergman, he has his,

    841

    01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:28,560

    he's in a lot of different types of climbing media, not all competition to try and make things work.

    842

    01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:34,320

    You know, Delaney Miller also is not just competition climbing. When she does comp stuff,

    843

    01:20:34,320 --> 01:20:38,800

    it's unreal. But she has to do a lot of like outdoor stuff as well. And I'm sure she enjoys

    844

    01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:42,880

    it actually. I shouldn't make it sound like she, she's like just a comp person. Same thing with

    845

    01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:47,040

    Natalie Berry. Like she has to straddle both worlds. Like, you know, she's doing the hill

    846

    01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:54,080

    climbing stuff in the UK, which sounds to be just awful. But she's also possibly right now,

    847

    01:20:54,080 --> 01:21:01,040

    like the journalist of records when it comes to competitive climbing media in English at least.

    848

    01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:04,960

    So yeah, there's not a lot of people doing it. Most of us are casuals. Like I do this in my part

    849

    01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:10,560

    time, like for half a year at a time. And again, this isn't your living either at the moment,

    850

    01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:19,200

    right? So I think, and just to go back to what I said to you earlier, like I used to be really

    851

    01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:24,800

    critical of lots of different commentators in climbing. Almost every single commentator that

    852

    01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:31,440

    there has been in like the last 15 years, I've had different problems with them. And then eventually

    853

    01:21:31,440 --> 01:21:38,480

    you come to realize that this one person is the only commentator for like world cup climbing.

    854

    01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:45,600

    And it is totally unreasonable for me to expect Matt Groom or Charlie Bosco or whoever

    855

    01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:53,600

    to be exactly the kind of commentator that I want. There's lots of different styles of commentary.

    856

    01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:57,200

    There are lots of different voices that people might like. Some people like talking about

    857

    01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:00,640

    history. Some people like talking about movements. Some people like the personal stories.

    858

    01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:06,000

    Some people just have different inflection. And so long as our sport has a single commentator,

    859

    01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:10,880

    there's always going to be people that think there's someone better than Matt Groom or whoever

    860

    01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:16,080

    else is doing it, but it is just one guy and he is burdened with having to be the best he possibly

    861

    01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:23,280

    can be for all of the people watching. And I think that's just like an important reminder that

    862

    01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:29,360

    the more people like you or like me who are willing to add their voice and create content

    863

    01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:34,320

    in competitive climbing, there are people that were waiting for your voice and waiting for your

    864

    01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:38,160

    interviews. They didn't like my stuff. They didn't like somebody else's stuff, but your stuff is

    865

    01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:42,400

    exactly what they wanted. Right. And the same thing could be said for some people for my stuff

    866

    01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:48,480

    and so on. And so I think if anybody is interested in any way of creating any media around

    867

    01:22:48,480 --> 01:22:53,440

    competition climbing, absolutely do it. Whether it's like, whether you want to do like data

    868

    01:22:53,440 --> 01:22:59,040

    journalism and visualizing stuff like Rory is at Inside Climbing. If you want to do, you kind of

    869

    01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:04,320

    mentioned like this, your angle is sort of, I'm new here. I want to know everything about what's

    870

    01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:09,920

    going on. Like get me in the loop. To my thing, which is a lot more kind of lately, it's been

    871

    01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:16,400

    commentary and analysis and criticism and stuff like that. Like we need everybody we can get. So

    872

    01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:21,680

    even if you can do one YouTube video, you know, a year, or if you're writing a column for a blog,

    873

    01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:26,960

    like hop in there, let us know that you're doing it. We'll share it. Like every single person makes

    874

    01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:33,200

    a difference to, to making this the kind of sport that more people want to watch. So yeah,

    875

    01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:38,160

    to answer the question, no, I don't think there is enough competition climbing media. And that's

    876

    01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:42,080

    always going to be hard because there's no money in it. But if you've got the time and you got the

    877

    01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:47,600

    time and you got the interest, please, please hop in. Cause yeah, every voice will have some people

    878

    01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:52,320

    that want to hear it. So please do it. Yeah, that's really nice. I think that's a really

    879

    01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:59,360

    good way of putting it. I don't think I thought of it in that way. I, I guess the way I felt

    880

    01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:07,360

    was kind of like, especially with the, like the podcast coming out on the official IFSC channel,

    881

    01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:12,320

    I was like, oh, well they're like doing this. Like maybe I don't need to do it anymore.

    882

    01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:19,120

    No, don't, don't stop. Don't stop. Like, oh, I mean, Mac room, he's great to talk to. I'd love

    883

    01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:26,560

    to listen and talk, but yeah, that's, that's a really good way of putting it. Um, next, uh,

    884

    01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:32,240

    or I guess last discord question. Um, what do you think about the role of gyms as a place that

    885

    01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:38,240

    people start careers and how do you see the role of that space for the next generation of teachers?

    886

    01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:43,840

    I'm going to pull from Chris Danielson and I'm just going to go with something he, so there's a guy,

    887

    01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:49,600

    if I'm being too pedantic, I apologize, but I'm just going to roll with the angle. There's a

    888

    01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:54,800

    root setter in the U S named Chris Danielson. Um, he used to be a really big name in organizing

    889

    01:24:54,800 --> 01:25:00,160

    the competitions in the U S he was really involved with USA climbing. And if I remember right, he was

    890

    01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:06,080

    the guy that really started the root setting, uh, accreditation process in the USA, like being a

    891

    01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:13,120

    level one root setter or a level four root setter or so on. And he wrote, was it like a gym? I can't

    892

    01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:21,200

    remember if this was a blog post or like a, uh, uh, an introductory, like chapter to like a, how

    893

    01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:28,240

    to root set book or something, but he made this great point that I hadn't thought of. Um, and

    894

    01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:33,200

    it's really simple. He just said, like, if you want to start root setting, start root setting.

    895

    01:25:33,200 --> 01:25:39,520

    And his point, which he fleshed out, I'm pretty sure was there's nothing stopping you from going

    896

    01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:45,760

    up to a boulder wall at your gym, a spray wall or a set wall, whatever, and use the holds that are

    897

    01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:50,560

    there to just make up a climb for yourself or for your friends. There's nothing stopping you from

    898

    01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:55,600

    doing that. Um, as more and more gyms have spray walls and kilter boards and all that kind of stuff,

    899

    01:25:55,600 --> 01:26:00,480

    it's even easier to have like a really dense area of holds. Right. But if you want to learn root

    900

    01:26:00,480 --> 01:26:06,400

    setting, it's not so much about turning wrenches as it is being able to look at a wall and predict

    901

    01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:12,160

    movement and see like, where do I need holds in order to make different moves happen? Um,

    902

    01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:16,720

    and his point was, if you want to start root setting, don't wait to be hired. Don't wait for

    903

    01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:21,520

    somebody to, to, you know, his root setting is really tough to get into professionally. There's

    904

    01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:25,440

    not a lot of spots to do it. Just start root setting, start being the guy that's put out

    905

    01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:29,920

    more boulder problems on your spray wall or your kilter wall than anyone else in your gym. Just

    906

    01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:36,160

    start doing it. Um, and the same thing kind of goes for coaching. If you climb with friends,

    907

    01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:41,360

    start paying attention to what feedback matters to you when you're climbing. Like when somebody

    908

    01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:45,760

    gives you a really good tip or a really good hint, why didn't you see that? Why couldn't you,

    909

    01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:50,480

    you know, uh, why hadn't that come to you before they said it? And what advice can you give to

    910

    01:26:50,480 --> 01:26:57,440

    other people? Um, if you're bringing a friend to the gym for the first time, how are you going to

    911

    01:26:57,440 --> 01:27:02,080

    cater to their experience to make them want to come back a second time? Are you going to be the

    912

    01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:06,880

    person that walks up to like, you know, let's say, yeah, like, okay, you bring a friend into the gym.

    913

    01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:10,960

    They've never climbed before. They're probably going to be climbing like VBs, V zeros, V ones.

    914

    01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:15,440

    Are you going to go up and climb every VB V zero V one and flash it before they get a chance to

    915

    01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:20,160

    get on it and they get on those and start falling? Is that going to be like how you present them to

    916

    01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:24,720

    a climb or are you going to say, yeah, climbing is really fun. No matter how long you've done it,

    917

    01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:30,800

    it's always hard and you'll let them climb the V zero and fall on it. And you will climb your V four

    918

    01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:36,000

    or your V seven and you'll fall on it and you'll help them relate to the fact that like, yeah,

    919

    01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:40,720

    I'm better than you. I've been doing this longer, but don't be embarrassed about falling. Right.

    920

    01:27:41,440 --> 01:27:46,800

    I think the biggest thing with climbing gyms is that whatever thing about climbing you're interested

    921

    01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:52,720

    in, the gym is just a big sandbox for the most part. And you can start exploring whatever pathway

    922

    01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:58,320

    you're interested in without being hired, without, you know, calling yourself a coach or without

    923

    01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:03,120

    calling yourself, you know, a gym owner or a root setter. You can just start paying attention to

    924

    01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:08,240

    like what people's experience in gyms are and start paying attention to how you set boulders.

    925

    01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:12,000

    And you can start your own career just by getting that practice and doing those things.

    926

    01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:16,640

    So for people that are psyched about working in climbing, don't wait until you get a job

    927

    01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:23,440

    to try being a root setter or try being a coach. Like just do that stuff with the people that you

    928

    01:28:23,440 --> 01:28:28,240

    climb with anyways, and see if it's something you like, see if it's something you're good at,

    929

    01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:33,680

    and just express yourself through being a climber at the gym rather than needing to be staff

    930

    01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:38,400

    necessarily. And if you do love it, I hope you do get a job out of it. I hope you manage to get paid

    931

    01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:43,440

    and get to do the stuff you love. I know that not many people get to do what I've had a chance to do

    932

    01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:48,640

    just because there's not that many gyms and not that many jobs at each gym. Like that's hard.

    933

    01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:54,400

    But do it anyways, if you're psyched, just do it anyways. Gyms are for you to play in. So

    934

    01:28:55,040 --> 01:28:57,520

    do that, I guess. Yeah.

    935

    01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:04,480

    Awesome. Well put. I think that's a great note to end on. Very inspiring. Thank you.

    936

    01:29:04,480 --> 01:29:10,880

    Very inspiring. Thank you. But yeah, I think that's all the questions I had. Thank you so

    937

    01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:16,000

    much for joining me. And anything you want to shout out or let people know where they can find you?

    938

    01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:22,720

    I'll leave your podcast link below, of course. Yeah, you can. If you haven't seen Plastic Weekly

    939

    01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:29,760

    on YouTube, subscribe to it and watch the videos that you like. Aside from that, if you watched

    940

    01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:35,520

    Ginny's podcast, just keep watching it. Keep watching the comps. Enjoy it. If there's stuff

    941

    01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:39,360

    you like, then tell people about it. Make sure people in climbing feel good about what they're

    942

    01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:43,840

    doing. And if there's stuff you don't like, consider doing something yourself. Let's build

    943

    01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:48,800

    this thing. Let's do it. Awesome. Okay, great. Thank you so much. And it was great to have this

    944

    01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:53,920

    chat. Yeah, thanks Ginny. That was a lot of fun. Thank you so much for making it to the end of the

    945

    01:29:53,920 --> 01:30:00,560

    podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are a super fake climber.

    946

    01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:05,680

    If you're listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and you can

    947

    01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:10,800

    continue the discussion on the free competition climbing discord linked in the description.

    948

    01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:23,680

    Thanks again for listening.

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16: Cloe Coscoy, French American Boulderer

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14: Cody Grodzki, USA Chief Routesetter