4: Grace Crowley, Speed Climber

Sep 4

Thanks for tuning into the podcast! Grace is a speed climber on the Australian team who only started climbing in late 2015 and has been competing in world cups since 2019 at the age of 15 (only 4 years of climbing before becoming world level?!?!). Grace is also open about sharing their experience being a non-binary athlete within competitive sports.

Show Notes

Guest links:

https://instagram.com/gracecrowlye

Reference links:

Classic Speed Climbing: Video

Adidas Rockstars: YT Channel

Arco Rock Master: 2023 Duel

Psicobloc: Website

Timestamps

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Introduction

1:17 - Covid?!?!

3:24 - Climbing for Australia as an American

5:35 - How Grace got into climbing and competing

8:18 - Making the national team after only 4 years of climbing

12:01 - Competing in boulder vs speed

14:51 - Deciding to focus on speed

16:29 - What makes a good speed athlete?

17:20 - Bad habits that need to be broken

19:49 - How to train for speed

23:30 - Can you train without a speed wall?

27:42 - Does team Australia train together?

29:21 - 2021 Visa Nightmare

32:53 - Competing as a non-binary athlete

34:50 - Would you prefer a separate, non-gendered category?

36:52 - Do you feel accepted within the climbing community?

38:54 - Reflecting on the 2023 season

41:06 - Readiness for November competition

43:54 - How The Olympics will impact 2024 World Cups

47:37 - Upcoming goals?

48:53 - Discord Q: Has it been hard finding coaches/walls?

51:18 - Discord Q: Interest in speed bouldering?

54:40 - Discord Q: Speed climbing outdoors?

56:33 - Discord Q: Future of speed climbing + formats?

1:02:46 - Outro

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So I compete as a woman, though I don't identify as a woman.
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And I'm faster than like three people, so I won't come last.
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I have many, many bad habits that I'm trying to unlearn.
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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.
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I'm your host Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today, Grace Crowley.
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Grace is a speed climber who made Australia's national team after only four years of starting
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climbing and started competing in World Cups at the age of 15.
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Grace is open about being a non-binary athlete, so in this episode we talk about their ballsy
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approach to applying for the national team, their experience being non-binary in competitive
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sports, and we explore different formats of speed competition.
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I've got to apologize in advance for the audio quality.
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I thought I would be able to fix it, but this was the best I could do.
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Hopefully you can still learn from the actual content, and without further ado, enjoy this
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conversation with Grace.
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But alright, how are you doing today?
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I'm doing alright, how are you?
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Alright.
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Are you doing any training today?
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I am.
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I actually just had COVID, so today's gonna be my first day back.
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So we'll see how that goes.
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Okay, are you feeling okay?
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You sound alright.
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Yeah, I was sick for like three or four days, like pretty bad fever and stuff, but then
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like magically on the sixth day, all of a sudden felt completely fine.
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Weird.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Well that's good at least.
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Yeah, I think when I had COVID it was a full 10-day thing for me, so first time.
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I've had it before, I've had it once before, but not for a while.
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Okay, good that you're already back up and running.
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I know some people said that the second time they got it, it was way worse, so I was like
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really scared, but hearing you say that it wasn't too bad is a little less concerning,
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so that's good to know.
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Yeah, I definitely felt worse, but it didn't last any longer.
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It was like three days were worse and then it was pretty much the same.
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Okay, yeah that's good.
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Yeah, glad you got better.
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Yeah, I got lucky.
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Yeah, are you excited to get back to training?
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I am, yeah.
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I think I'll probably take it pretty slow today, but just test it out.
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Yeah, are your muscles feeling good?
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Yeah, they feel much fine.
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I probably won't go for very long, but should be fine.
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Hope it turns out well for you.
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Me too.
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Where are you calling in from?
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Are you still in the US?
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Yeah, I'm in Salt Lake.
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Do they have a full speed route there?
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Yeah, there's two, I felt like they're both at commercial gyms, like the USA training
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centers here, they don't have speed wall there, but then the front has a speed wall and then
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momentum, Mill Creek has a speed wall as well.
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Then the momentum wall is closed off to the public, but world cup climbers get access to
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it.
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So you are on the Australian team, but you grew up in the US, you also sound American.
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So yeah, how did that work out?
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Yeah, I grew up in Montana, my parents and I are from there.
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We moved to Australia in 2017, and that's when I started competing.
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I came up through the Australian competition scene and I made the Australian team, which
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is actually how I got my citizenship.
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I moved back to the US last year because the training for speed climbing is better here.
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What's the training like in Australia?
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Do you not have access to a full wall or is it just busier?
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When I was there, there was one wall and since I've moved, they built another one.
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They're both in Melbourne, which is where I live.
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There was also no timer and there's no coaches.
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So I kind of moved here so I have access to a timer and a coach and train with people.
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It's gotten better since I've moved back in Australia, but still not quite as good.
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So you're just here for, I guess, an unspecified amount of time?
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Yeah, definitely, at least through the Paris Olympics is the plan.
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We'll see where I'm at after that.
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I'll decide where I'm going to live.
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So then why did you guys move to Australia in the first place?
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My mom got a job there.
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She works at a university so we all moved down there.
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So are your parents still down there?
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Yeah, they kind of come back and visit.
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My brother lives in Montana still, he didn't move with us, so they come back in the summer
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sometimes to visit.
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But my mom can get time off work to work remotely or things.
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So most of the time they're in Australia and occasionally they'll come up here and see
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my brother and I.
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Alright, makes sense.
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And so yeah, tell us about how you got your start climbing and competing.
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Yeah, I started climbing when I was in Montana.
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I had a family friend take me to a local bouldering gym that had just opened.
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I started like only a few weeks after they opened and pretty much immediately hooked.
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I think I went once and then probably haven't gone less than twice a week since I started.
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I was immediately in and then they started a youth team and so I joined their youth team
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as soon as it started.
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I was on that for a year or so and then we moved to Melbourne.
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The first thing that we found was a climbing team for me.
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So I joined a bouldering gym there with a youth team.
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And that's how I met a coach that started me in competition.
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So I trained with her.
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She asked me if I wanted to do some competitions, tried them out, hated the first one.
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She made me do another and I loved it.
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And then I did all of them from then on.
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What made you hate it the first time and love it the second time?
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Did you win the second time?
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No.
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Oh, okay.
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The first one I ended up doing was youth nationals.
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And so it was a big competition.
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And I think I came second to last and I had no idea what I was doing.
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Like just kind of threw myself in there and did not enjoy it because I was overwhelmed
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and didn't know what was happening.
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And the second one was a state titles event, which are much smaller and usually only a
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few competitors per category.
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First was like 30 or 40 at nationals.
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And so it's like much smaller and much more manageable, kind of figured out how to do
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it and enjoyed it much more.
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Were they the same like format of competition?
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Yeah.
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The youth competitions usually are run in like a boulder gym format where they give you six
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boulders in like two hours and you just go wild.
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How old were you when you first started climbing?
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I think I was 12.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I think I was, I guess just like reading up a little bit.
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I think your progression from starting climbing to competing was pretty fast.
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I guess so after like two years you started competing?
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Yeah.
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And then you joined the Australian team like 2019.
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Yeah, that's pretty fast.
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Yeah.
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So I guess how did that happen?
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I definitely just kind of ended up getting lucky that Australia doesn't really have a
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speed team.
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It was like I started training speed at the end of 2018, I think.
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I sort of got into that because Oshiona McKenzie, who was the Olympian in Tokyo from Australia,
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she was training for the qualify and her mom had invited me to try speed climbing and join
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in on some of her training.
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And I really enjoyed it mostly because of them.
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I think they like made it a lot of fun and it was really fun to train.
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And then I decided to apply for special consideration to be on the speed team that year 2019.
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They didn't have a national, so there was like no competition and I was just applied
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and they accepted my application and my first year of eligibility for World Cup.
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So I ended up just getting to do a few World Cups that year because there was nobody else
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that really was doing it.
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Nice.
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So like special eligibility, I guess just because they don't have like an official process?
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Yeah, I think that year they had held nationals at the end of 2018.
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And so they had opened up like special consideration for more people to be on the team at the beginning
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of the year who didn't qualify through the original national selection event.
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And so I essentially just had to send an email and like make an argument of why I should
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be on the team.
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I guess I thought I was good enough.
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Nice.
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Did you have to like send a video like proving your fastest time or something like that?
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I think I did, but it wasn't very fast.
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I think I remember part of my argument being was I had pulled the speed results from the
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last World Championships and I had like told them like this is my PR and this is what the
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bottom of the field was like and I'm faster than like three people so I won't come last.
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You should put me on the team.
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And they did.
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Well, that's ballsy.
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That's good.
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Yeah, it worked.
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Yeah, nice.
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And now you're on there.
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Yeah.
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Do you remember what the time was?
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I don't know.
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I bet it was somewhere around 14 or 15 seconds.
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I think my first World Cup I ran like a 14 second time.
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So it wasn't fast, but I was there.
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But not last.
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Yeah.
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So you had about three to four years of climbing before you got on the team?
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So did you start out as like a boulderer, a rope climber, leap climber?
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Definitely a boulder.
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I started in the bouldering gym and then I pretty much only bouldered until I started
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speed climbing.
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I think I learned to lead climb about the same time I learned to speed climb.
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So I was like only bouldering for two or three years and then started competing in bouldering
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in those national and state events and then started doing all three kind of about the
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same time as I started speed climbing.
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So I was competing in the combined format for a while.
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But not at the World Cup level.
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Right.
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Okay.
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How did the, I guess like boulder competitions, I don't know if you did lead competitions,
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but how did those compare to doing speed competitions?
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I don't think I really had much of a preference for speed or boulder for a long time.
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I really liked competing in both.
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I think it's a different kind of competition, but I enjoyed them both.
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I've never liked lead climbing as much.
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I like competing in lead, but I really don't like training lead climbing.
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Not much for the endurance athletes.
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So it was not my favorite discipline, but I kind of always wanted to do bouldering World
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Cups as well as speed.
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And so I was working towards that for a few years.
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That was like the ultimate goal.
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And then 2021 I did, well, 2020 I made boulder, see there was no competition.
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And then I made it again in 21 and I went to World Championships and I did both disciplines
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there.
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It was my first one, first international event with both.
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And I think when I went there, I was really excited to do both.
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And after when I was debriefing with my coaches, I realized that I had way more fun competing
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in the speed event than I did in the bouldering event.
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I don't really know why.
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I just, I think it was probably like the combination of the isolation and it's drawn out so long
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when you're a low rank climber in an international field.
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You're in isolation for hours and it's just a lot less fun.
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How does the isolation work there?
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I'm actually not super familiar with how it works for like qualifications.
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Yeah.
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I'll always say like everybody goes into ISO and you get a running order the night before.
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And generally if you don't have a ranking or if you're low ranked, you're quite far
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down in the running order.
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And so the five minutes on, five minutes off, you end up being in there for three, four
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hours if you're down low.
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So you're pretty much just sitting around for three hours waiting in this room.
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It's the warm up space, usually a big room in there for walls and no phones of course
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for isolation.
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So you're just kind of sitting there bored for a few hours and it's time to start your
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warm up.
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And what's the speed, I guess there's not isolation for speed.
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Yeah, there's no isolation.
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I really don't know that much about speed.
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Speed has no isolation and so it's like generally we have the same warm up areas, the bouldering
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or the lead climbing, but they'll usually add more jugs and it's not closed off like
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bouldering and leads.
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So you can leave and come as you like.
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You can have your phone, everything, anything you want.
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Just more relaxed.
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That sounds nice.
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And so based off of that, you decided to just go all in on the speed climbing?
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I continued to do bouldering in 2022.
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At that World Championships in 2021, I ended up qualifying for the world game, which was
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happening in 2022 in both disciplines because I was the only person that went to that World
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Championships from the Oceanic region.
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And so I got the slot and so I kept doing bouldering in 2022 to prepare for the World
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Games and compete there.
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So I did I think three bouldering World Cups in the World Games and then I stopped bouldering
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after the World Games.
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So now it's all speed?
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Now it's all speed, yes.
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And I guess in terms of the mindset you go into when you were competing in both bouldering
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and speed, is there I guess like a mindset switch that you have to make in terms of like
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making mistakes or something like that?
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I don't think it was ever like a conscious switch I had to make because the preparation
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is so different.
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Like on the day, my warm up is completely different for both disciplines.
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And so you just kind of ease yourself into different preparation for different disciplines.
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Kind of it's not a conscious thing.
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You just one day you're bouldering and you're doing what you do bouldering and then the
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next day you're speed climbing and you're doing what you're doing speed climbing.
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Okay, yeah, I guess that makes sense.
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After so much practice, your body just kind of understands what's happening.
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So what in your mind makes for a good speed climber?
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I mean, obviously the speed is pretty powerful.
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A lot of fast switch muscles.
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I think the most important thing though is the technical aspect to it.
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Like it's so precise and so repetitive.
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And because it's repetitive, you have to be so precise.
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And so when you're training it, you have to be able to make those little changes and then
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make them stick so that the muscle memory takes over competition.
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And so it's like the important thing is learning to do the movement right, even when you aren't
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thinking about it.
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So that makes sense.
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I think so, yeah.
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Have you ever sort of caught this like bad habit that you had to unlearn and then totally
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missed it?
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I have many, many bad habits that I'm trying to unlearn.
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One of them I've been working on lately is at the start, the tamoa skip, the thing that
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is skipping cold floor.
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I looked directly at the wall.
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There's multiple photos of me midway through the move, just staring at a pool pool.
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And that kind of ruins your momentum because you're punching yourself forward and then
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you're going in and out of the wall.
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Whereas I should be looking up and that creates like your chest is straight, your back is
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straight and you get a straight line through the movement.
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So I'm trying to unlearn that.
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How do you go about unlearning something that is so ingrained in you?
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I think mostly you just have to put a lot of conscious thought into doing the right
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thing.
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And you have to think about it over and over and over until you can do it without thinking
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about it.
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Makes sense.
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Any other ones that you've already overcome?
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I think there's always more that you can do.
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So like those bad habits that I'm unlearning.
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Like I used to look at a foot shift at the top, like look down and now I don't.
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And so it's like you look down and then you look at the wall and then you look up and
293
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it's kind of you're always learning something new.
294
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Yeah.
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Are you supposed to be looking at where your feet are going?
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Because I'm like, I feel like, okay.
297
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:13,600
Yeah.
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When I watch people, they're never, it's always just...
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Yeah.
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When you look at your foot, it causes like a pause because you're waiting for that foot
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to hit the hold that you're looking at before you move.
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And really you want to be like moving and preparing to move before you even hit the
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hold so that you're exploding off it, like the instant that you touch it instead of waiting
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for it to hit and then pushing.
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So you just kind of have to trust that it's going to be there and move before you know
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that it's there because it's always there.
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It's never going to move.
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So you do know that it will be there.
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Yeah.
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That sounds like something that requires a good bit of practice and training.
311
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,200
So what does training look like for you?
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I can give you an idea of what I imagine it as, as someone who just has no idea what goes
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into speed training.
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00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:16,440
I kind of just think of it as maybe you do some analysis of what other speed climbers
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do, see what kind of techniques they have down.
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And then you do sections in isolation or where you're trying to link the big powerful moves.
317
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And then you just like run it a whole bunch of times.
318
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I mean, yeah, you pretty much got it down there.
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Sounds like you're ready to give theme climbers.
320
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:36,920
I wish.
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Generally, generally what I do is I find someone that's like doing the band that I want to
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do and that's a similar height to me.
323
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I'll just pull like a recording of them in a final or something and you analyze their
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movements.
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And then when you're like learning something new, you'll do it in the section and you'll
326
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kind of perfect it in the section and then you'll do it on the whole wall.
327
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And it feels really different on the section versus the whole wall because you've like
328
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different energy levels.
329
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,080
Sometimes you're in a little bit different position and so you kind of have to learn
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00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:19,600
both the section and then relearn it a little bit on the whole wall, especially at the top.
331
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So you'll like sections and then you'll pull and then maybe you'll go back to section
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to kind of relearn it a little bit to a mix of them.
333
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What percentage of your training is split between I guess like on the wall training
334
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and then just like physical training?
335
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,600
Kind of depends what time of year it is.
336
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Like in the middle of the season, it's mostly on the wall training and then in the off season
337
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,400
it ends up being like a 50-50 split almost.
338
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Like a lot of weight training, track, there's sprint stuff and climbing as well.
339
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,560
I didn't know that was part of it.
340
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,720
I don't know if I can do that actually.
341
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,080
I do a lot of sprinting.
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I do hurdle drills sometimes.
343
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It's a lot of fun.
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You're not actually doing hurdles like they would in a race, but you're doing like the
345
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drills that they use.
346
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:22,920
It creates like a lot of hopping, a lot of jumping, plyometric drills.
347
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Yeah I guess that makes sense.
348
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Did you have any athletics experience with that kind of stuff before?
349
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:29,800
No, not really.
350
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:36,620
I pretty much have only been a climber, never been much for team sports or anything.
351
00:22:36,620 --> 00:22:43,840
So then yeah, you mentioned that during the competition season you're mostly doing on
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the wall training.
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I guess you still have a few competitions coming up, so are you doing on the wall training
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00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,720
right now or especially since you just had COVID is there anything you need to build
355
00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:58,720
back up physically?
356
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,480
I'm not sure about building back up after having COVID.
357
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,440
We'll find out later today, see how I feel.
358
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:13,560
But I think right now my next competition is until the end of November and so I'm planning
359
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:18,200
on doing like a big strength training block and essentially treating these next few months
360
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:24,200
as like a mini-off season where I do a bunch of strength training and learning new technique
361
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:31,280
and then I'll refine it maybe towards October and build the speed back to mostly on the
362
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,280
wall.
363
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,040
Yeah, good luck with that.
364
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:45,120
So personally I've had a really hard time finding gyms with speed walls.
365
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:46,400
I've always wanted to try it.
366
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,360
I mean I know I would be awful at it but I still want to try it.
367
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,120
So yeah, exactly.
368
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:59,040
I need to know like how awful I am so that's why I need to try it.
369
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:06,280
But it's really hard to find I think one because like interest is not as high among climbers
370
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:12,520
and it's also hard to find gyms that have a ceiling high enough for that.
371
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,600
I think a lot of gyms are just kind of in like old warehouses and they don't necessarily
372
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,560
think they need like how tall is it?
373
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,880
Yeah, 15 meters.
374
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:28,600
Yeah, so they don't think they need that high of a ceiling for like a random warehouse.
375
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:37,560
So, has it been hard for you to find gyms to train at and what do you recommend for
376
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,200
people to train speed if they don't have access to a speed wall?
377
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,800
If that's like even possible?
378
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:49,080
Definitely possible but train without a speed wall it's much harder but doable.
379
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:57,920
I mean there's a lot of people that train like just to be really strong and really powerful
380
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,280
and then they'll do like short trips to a speed wall they don't live near one and like
381
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,400
be super strong and super powerful and just learn the technique in like a boot camp style
382
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:15,600
way of you go really hard for like a few days and you learn all the technique and you get
383
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:21,880
really strong and then you do it again whenever you can and you learn all the technique again
384
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:27,760
and you just kind of get faster by getting stronger.
385
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,160
I guess you could study the movement as well.
386
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,560
Definitely possible but it gets much harder.
387
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,200
Yeah, has that worked for people?
388
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,840
Like is there anyone on the World Cup circuit who does that?
389
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:44,720
I'm not entirely sure if there's people that do it like consistently.
390
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:49,960
I have heard of athletes that will take like a month break off speed climbing so that they
391
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,440
can focus on building their strength and so they're not doing any speed climbing and they're
392
00:25:54,440 --> 00:26:00,840
just lifting or strength training and then they come back and get faster because they
393
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:06,760
got stronger but I don't know of anyone that does it consistently.
394
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,440
I guess have you done that in the past?
395
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:15,560
You mentioned that it was a bit hard to get speed access in Australia but yeah in those
396
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,480
moments is that what you did?
397
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:24,840
I've pretty much always trained like at least once a week on the wall and so there was one
398
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:31,480
wall when I was living there and so I would drive 20 minutes to do it once a week and
399
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:40,800
not focus the rest of my training on bouldering but not really as efficient to do it without
400
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,800
a wall.
401
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:42,800
Okay, makes sense.
402
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:50,240
I've also seen some places have not the full wall but they like split it and then rotate
403
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:55,640
it or maybe like have it in different sections.
404
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,640
How is that?
405
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,120
Is that like pretty good?
406
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:03,560
I think it's super popular in the US especially to have the 10 meter wall and so that's like
407
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,520
split halfway.
408
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,260
A lot of places won't just have the first 10 meters and then ideally you would want
409
00:27:10,260 --> 00:27:18,120
like the next five meters down low as a section and that it works really well for training.
410
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:23,240
You can train techniques really well like that and then you kind of don't get the same
411
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,800
power endurance as you would on a full wall.
412
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:34,440
You have to focus a little bit more on training that intentionally in a different way but
413
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,360
it does work really well to train like that.
414
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:43,360
Yeah, that makes sense actually that yeah I could see the pros in having that.
415
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:51,440
Cool, and do you ever train as like a team in Australia or like train with other teammates?
416
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,160
In Australia the national team is world self-funded.
417
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:02,200
The coaches are all volunteers and so they only go to events that Sport Climbing Australia
418
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:10,440
can fund them for so they don't like coach athletes, the day-to-day training, just events
419
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,720
because they all have their own jobs.
420
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:19,440
They usually have people pay them for coaching because they need to make a living.
421
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,680
Sport Climbing Australia doesn't have the funding to pay them so they all volunteer
422
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,680
their time.
423
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,280
Yeah, we're all pre-sprint out as well.
424
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:37,240
The speed team is pretty small so we're less spread out because there's limited walls but
425
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,520
the bouldering and lead teams kind of spread out throughout the whole country.
426
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:47,320
A lot of people are overseas for most of the season as well so everybody trains on their
427
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,760
own or with a few people that are in their city.
428
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,520
It's not very cohesive like some of the places like training centers.
429
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,720
Do you know if that's something they're working towards or is it just not even in the cards
430
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:03,720
right now?
431
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:13,280
I have heard various rumors of people trying to build things but I think it's a ways out.
432
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,280
That's always tough.
433
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:22,680
Just based on what you have access to and what the federation is like, it makes a big
434
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:23,680
difference.
435
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:31,120
Yeah, and during our pre-interview you had mentioned that you had also ran into a lot
436
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,320
of difficulties with visa issues in the past.
437
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,320
What happened there?
438
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,680
Yeah, especially COVID times.
439
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:49,120
Melbourne had a pretty strict lockdown for almost two years and the country itself was
440
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:55,080
entirely locked off from the world and so our national borders were shut which means
441
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,560
that nobody could go in or out.
442
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:05,680
So the beginning of 2021 when World Cup started happening again, we couldn't go at all because
443
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,880
we weren't allowed out of the country.
444
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:13,120
Then about midway through the year they changed the rules to allow people to apply for an
445
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,120
exemption until we gave them.
446
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:21,760
So to go to the World Championships in 2021 I had to apply for an exemption from the government
447
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:27,640
to leave the country and I couldn't come back less than three months so I had to be out
448
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,840
of the country for three months.
449
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:38,080
So I applied for visas in Australia because the way the Australian passport is generally
450
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,120
you can't get a visa outside of the country.
451
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:49,400
So I was going to Russia and I applied for two Russian visas while I was there and it
452
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:56,080
was very complicated, complicated visa and I was not aware that you can only hold one
453
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:01,840
Russian visa at a time so I applied for one and then I applied for the second one and
454
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:07,480
they cancelled the first one but didn't tell me and then I left the country, tried to get
455
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:08,480
into Russia.
456
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,000
They told me my visa was cancelled.
457
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:17,040
I went back into, I think I went to Austria and then I went and tried to go back to Moscow
458
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:23,000
for World Championships on the visa that hadn't been cancelled and was successful but I missed
459
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,800
the World Championships because I had messed up that visa.
460
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,720
Okay, that was a lot to follow.
461
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,840
Yeah, it was a whole mess and then of course it was like that was in like the period of
462
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:40,120
one month and I still had two months before I could get back into Australia and I stayed
463
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:46,960
in Europe for a while and then I went to Salt Lake because my European visa was running
464
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:52,760
out and I was stuck in Salt Lake for like six weeks because I couldn't afford a flight.
465
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,960
That was a whole thing.
466
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,680
But okay, but you could go to the US because you still have your citizenship there.
467
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,280
Yeah, that's why I went here.
468
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,080
I didn't need a visa.
469
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,000
I didn't have to worry about leaving when my visa ran out like Europe.
470
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:16,280
So you made it to the World Champs but not the Youth ones.
471
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,680
Did you make it to any other World Cups that year then?
472
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:24,280
No, I was supposed to go to Korea right after World Championships but I ended up cancelling
473
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:31,080
that World Cup and so the only event that I could get out of the country for was the
474
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,080
ones in Russia.
475
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,080
Gosh.
476
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,120
Yeah, that is quite a procedure.
477
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,920
Yes, it was a lot of paperwork.
478
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,880
Yeah and that all happened within the span of one month?
479
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,320
Yeah, I think it was like maximum six weeks.
480
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,120
Well, I'm glad that that's not happening anymore.
481
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,640
Yeah, me too.
482
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:57,640
Yeah.
483
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,680
All right, so something else that you mentioned.
484
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,680
So you are non-binary and you are an athlete.
485
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:12,760
How does that sort of affect you being like a high level athlete?
486
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,320
Yeah, I think it's an interesting experience.
487
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:23,960
There's not a lot of professions that really revolve around gender in the same way as competitive
488
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:24,960
sports.
489
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,880
So I compete as a woman, though I don't identify as a woman.
490
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:42,000
So it's always a bit of an interesting experience internally to navigate that and trying to
491
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:49,440
validate my own identity while still competing in the sports that I love and doing the things
492
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,520
that I really want to do.
493
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:58,880
I think it's, ISSC is really great about doing things around inclusivity.
494
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,240
They're certainly trying.
495
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:06,840
I contacted them last year, I think, maybe the beginning of the year, asked them if there
496
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,280
was like a way I could put my pronouns into their system.
497
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,440
So if I make a final and I end up on a live stream, the commentators would know and they
498
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,720
could make an effort to not misgender me.
499
00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:25,040
And they were really responsive to that and they changed things for me and put in like
500
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,480
a section in our athlete profile so that everybody could put in my pronouns.
501
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,760
So it's generally been a pretty positive experience.
502
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,240
I think climbing is really great about inclusivity.
503
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:39,240
Trying really hard, so it's alright.
504
00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:41,560
Yeah, okay, that's great to hear.
505
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:48,440
I hear a lot of, we get a lot of like, IFSC bashing on the internet, so it's nice to hear
506
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,640
a positive experience there.
507
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,320
They occasionally do things, right?
508
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:54,320
Yeah.
509
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:59,280
And this was a question I had as well as a question from Discord.
510
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:07,000
Would you prefer a separate category or like where athletes can choose where they identify
511
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,360
the most?
512
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,280
And how does climbing compare to other sports in that regard?
513
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,960
Or are there any official policies in place?
514
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:22,240
I think right now, like a third category is just not realistic.
515
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:29,960
Like you just wouldn't get enough competitors to host the World Cups in a third category.
516
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,960
Australia runs a third category.
517
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,080
They call it inclusive in their state events, most of the states.
518
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:42,880
And so they run a men's and a women's and an inclusive at state level and a lot of the
519
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:43,880
social comps run that.
520
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:51,680
Which is super cool, but you can't really get anywhere past that I think right now because
521
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:58,360
there's just not enough competitors at that level that identify not a man and not a woman.
522
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,160
So third category, not really realistic, I think.
523
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:12,920
But I think there is policies at IFSC about trans athletes and like choosing which category
524
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:13,920
you want to compete in.
525
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,160
And I think from what I know, I haven't fully read them.
526
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:23,080
They're relatively relaxed compared to a bunch of other sports, like trans women being able
527
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,040
to compete in the women's category and trans men in the men's category.
528
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:33,720
So from what I know, not so bad compared to other sports that outright ban them.
529
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:39,120
So I'm very thankful that that's not the direction that they're going.
530
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,120
Oh okay.
531
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,440
Yeah, I didn't know they had a policy in place for that.
532
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,440
I think we have it.
533
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:46,440
Okay.
534
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:47,440
Okay, yeah that's good to know.
535
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,440
I guess we haven't, have we seen that happen yet or?
536
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,160
I don't think so.
537
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,960
Not as far as I'm aware.
538
00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:00,120
Yeah, I guess we'll see if that happens anytime soon.
539
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:08,240
So do you feel accepted within the climbing community and within like the elite competition
540
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:09,240
level?
541
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:10,400
Yeah, for sure.
542
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:15,200
I think climbers generally are quite progressive people.
543
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:20,880
Like everyone that I have kind of talked to about it, they've all been super supportive
544
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:26,880
and the people here in Salt Lake and all my friends here and the competitors on the circuit
545
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,520
have all made a really good effort to get my pronouns correct.
546
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,400
Like it doesn't happen all the time and there's people that don't at all.
547
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:43,080
So it's like generally not always happening, but people are making a really conscious effort
548
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,640
and I noticed it and I really appreciate it.
549
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,600
Okay, that's good to hear.
550
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:55,160
Is there anything that you think needs like further change to I guess help you feel more
551
00:37:55,160 --> 00:38:02,680
welcome and accepted or is that more of just like a personal battle within yourself?
552
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:08,440
I think it's a lot of like a personal battle.
553
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:14,680
Just making sure that people know that that's how I identify and that I use they then pronouns
554
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:21,280
and like telling people and correcting people, that's the personal side, but there's also
555
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:26,760
like the societal side of like trans people existence more.
556
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:37,320
It's not always a gender thing, like more societal existence of us, the exposure.
557
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,840
I'm glad that you have had a positive experience.
558
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:48,920
I think definitely not the case in like all sports.
559
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:55,240
So yeah, it's good to hear that we don't have this issue within the climbing community at
560
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:56,240
least.
561
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:05,840
But yeah, switching gears to think about the future of World Cups, Olympics, all of that.
562
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:14,200
And I guess also reflecting on the season so far, how have you thought about the season
563
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,600
so far in terms of World Cups for this year?
564
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,800
I have not had a very good season so far.
565
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:29,120
I think that I've had maybe one competition that I was semi okay with my results from
566
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,880
the others, I was like pretty disappointed with.
567
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:39,160
It's been a pretty full on season, like starting in the first World Cup in Seoul, it's pretty
568
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,280
much been like almost back to back for everything through burn.
569
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:49,560
And it's been a lot of high pressure year with people trying to qualify for the Olympics.
570
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:57,240
So I think I've struggled with the pressure to actually perform the way that I can in
571
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:00,600
training, perform that way in competition.
572
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:05,640
So not satisfied this year, but working on it.
573
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:11,920
Is it just like, I guess like the nerves get to you and then you make like mistakes and
574
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:12,920
you're slipping?
575
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,880
Or is it, I don't know what else is it?
576
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,800
Yeah, I think it's mostly been like a psychological nerve issue.
577
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:27,760
I don't really feel like jittery and nervous in that traditional way before competition,
578
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,760
but then I kind of get on the wall.
579
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:36,320
It's like I forgot to have a climb and so I make mistakes and I slip and nothing comes
580
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:43,120
together in the way that it should, but not quite been happening the way that I wanted.
581
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:52,160
Does it just like impact your times or have you also, what's it called, when you go before
582
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,160
the buzzer goes?
583
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,160
The full start.
584
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,160
Yes, that.
585
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,160
Yeah, I'm not okay.
586
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:04,120
I thankfully never fall started in a competition and I'm going to try and keep it that way.
587
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:09,640
I'm sure it will eventually happen, but hopefully not this year.
588
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:14,640
What is, so the next competition you're scheduled for is in November.
589
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:15,640
Yeah.
590
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:21,120
Are you feeling better for that one or still like pretty nervous?
591
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,120
I think I will feel better.
592
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:35,560
I haven't yet there, but I have a plan, I think, to hopefully help things.
593
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:45,480
Kind of work through all of the physical training, kind of over prepare to be prepared to slip
594
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,040
in a competition and then also work through the psychological side.
595
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:55,520
I think I'll see a sports site and work through a mental plan as well.
596
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,480
Okay, that's good.
597
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:04,760
So yeah, just like trying to figure out a way to, I guess, bounce back from having a
598
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,720
season where you're a bit disappointed.
599
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:10,800
Yeah, that's the plan.
600
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,600
And also the Olympics are coming up soon.
601
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:20,040
How are you preparing for that physically and mentally?
602
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,920
Mostly preparing for the qualifications right now.
603
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:31,560
So that competition is in November is the Oceanic Championships, which is my main Olympic
604
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,360
selection event.
605
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,600
So ideally aiming to qualify for the Olympics there.
606
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:47,280
And if not, I will hopefully go to the Olympic qualification series, which is next year.
607
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:53,080
The Oceanic region is very small and so I kind of end up getting lucky on a lot of things.
608
00:42:53,080 --> 00:43:00,160
So if I don't qualify for the Oceanic Championships this year, I will get a spot at the OQS because
609
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,160
they have a continental quota.
610
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:08,520
So I'm the top ranked in the continent on the World Cup series and so I'll get that
611
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:13,640
slot if I don't qualify because I'll get the continental quota.
612
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:14,640
Okay.
613
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:21,400
So it's a lucky backup plan, but I didn't have the plan.
614
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:22,400
Oh, okay.
615
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,720
So then there's like not even anything to be nervous about, is there?
616
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:32,640
I mean, it's significantly harder to qualify at the OQS than it will be at the Oceanic
617
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,920
Championships because we're a super small continent.
618
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:40,840
It's just Australia and New Zealand aren't the only one on the team from Australia.
619
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,120
And so it's like my competition is a few team climbers.
620
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:50,960
They're getting pretty fast, but it's significantly easier than the other continents.
621
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,680
Well, good luck for that.
622
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:54,680
Hopefully you can make it in.
623
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:55,680
That'd be really cool.
624
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:56,680
Yeah.
625
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:57,680
Thank you.
626
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:58,680
Yeah.
627
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:07,120
How do you think that the Olympics will impact the, I guess, the next World Cup season?
628
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:13,280
I think that it kind of creates a little bit of chaos in the way that they schedule things.
629
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,120
So like generally there's the first half of the year's bouldering and the second half
630
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:23,040
of the year's lead and the speed is kind of spread throughout.
631
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:29,240
The Olympics kind of throws that in a loop because they're in the middle and they can't
632
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:34,480
really run events at the same time as the Olympics because the IFFC needs all their
633
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,040
staff at the Olympics.
634
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:42,280
And then in addition to that, having the OQS at the beginning of the year, they also need
635
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:46,440
a bunch of staff there organizing those three events.
636
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:53,200
And so I think it'll mess with the calendar a little bit and create World Cups that are
637
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:58,840
more spread out and weird timing on things.
638
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,960
They haven't released the calendar yet, so we don't know for sure, but I'm guessing
639
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,560
that it will create a little bit of chaos in athletes' schedules.
640
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:09,560
Yeah.
641
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:19,320
Do you sort of have an idea of what kind of competitions you'll be signing up for with
642
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,320
the Olympics coming up?
643
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:32,840
I guess depending on if I qualify at the Oceanic Championships this year, I'll probably do
644
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,680
the first two or three speed lobe cups at the beginning of the year and then train for
645
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:42,680
a few months for the Olympics and then probably take the second half of the year off, not
646
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:43,680
compete as much.
647
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:52,720
And so it'll be like a few events and a relatively big break to train the Olympics and then another
648
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:53,720
big break.
649
00:45:53,720 --> 00:46:00,520
And if I don't qualify there, I'll have probably a more intense schedule because I'll have
650
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,760
to do the three OQS events.
651
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:11,200
So that would be a pretty big walk of events at the beginning of the year.
652
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:16,160
Probably less time for a break before the Olympics to train.
653
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:20,440
And then the Olympics will probably pretty much be packed for the first six months of
654
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:21,440
the year.
655
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:26,840
Yeah, sounds like a packed schedule.
656
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:38,240
And I guess I would think that as a competitor, you would want maybe a couple of smaller competition
657
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:44,760
events to ramp up for the Olympics just to get you used to that competition mindset again.
658
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,080
Is that not the case?
659
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:51,880
You would prefer to just have a bunch of training and then just go straight into it?
660
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:56,360
I think that's what the World Cups at the beginning of the year will kind of be treated
661
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:57,360
as.
662
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,400
It's like your preparation event.
663
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:05,800
And then you'll kind of refine things in that training block before the Olympics and then
664
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:06,800
compete.
665
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,640
And so you kind of you do your off season and you train for a long time and you get
666
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:17,280
there and then you compete and you're kind of testing out that training that you did.
667
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:23,560
And then you're like evaluating how you did at those events, what went wrong and how you
668
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:24,560
can improve.
669
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:30,360
And then you take that smaller block of training and you improve all those things hopefully.
670
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:35,360
And then you compete at the Olympics and do well ideally.
671
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:36,360
Yeah, hopefully.
672
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,360
In a perfect world, yeah.
673
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,360
Yeah.
674
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,960
What are your goals for the future?
675
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,000
General goals?
676
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:52,440
General goals, qualifying for the Olympics we've talked about as a goal.
677
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:57,760
I'm not at the point where I could make a final yet, but that is the long term goal
678
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:05,720
is to progress to consistently making finals and then eventually podiums and generally
679
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:08,720
better results.
680
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:13,040
That's the goals that I have right now.
681
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,520
Like progressing to get fast enough to be able to make those finals.
682
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:25,080
Do you have an estimate in mind of how long that would take?
683
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:29,640
I think it's kind of hard to tell a lot of the time because speed climbing is progressing
684
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:30,640
so fast.
685
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:37,080
And so sure, I could be a six second climber next year, but maybe the final, like six,
686
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:41,080
eight could not make the final and you have to be six, five that year.
687
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:48,080
You're kind of always like chasing this invisible timeline of you never know how fast everyone
688
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,080
else is going to be.
689
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,680
Yeah, that's the stressful part of competition.
690
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:55,680
Yeah.
691
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:56,680
Okay.
692
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,160
I think that is all the questions I had.
693
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:04,840
I do still have a few Discord questions that we'll go into quickly.
694
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:13,440
So the first one, how do they keep up with the development of the sport outside of that
695
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,600
of contingent nations?
696
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:21,600
Do they struggle to find training partners and coaches and how is speed well accessed
697
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:22,600
in Australia?
698
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:29,700
We went over a bit of that, but yeah, anything else you want to cover in terms of it still
699
00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:32,400
being a developing federation?
700
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:41,840
Yeah, I mean, Australia especially, like the Federation is completely unfunded, but it's
701
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:43,320
almost a volunteer run.
702
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:49,280
And so they do their best, but there's only so much you can do and the board all work
703
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:55,880
at nine to five for their own job and do this on the weekend in their own personal time
704
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:56,880
without any payment.
705
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:04,440
Same with the coaches and everything, so it's hard to grow the sport at the same rate as
706
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:10,000
those federations that have funding from the government and sponsorships and things because
707
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,400
we just don't have the money from the people and the time to do it.
708
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:21,040
So they do their best, but there's only so much they can do.
709
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:27,040
And then athletes training, because of that you're kind of on your own because you don't
710
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:28,040
get any funding.
711
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:35,360
So I work in the off season usually and I'm saved as much as I can and my parents support
712
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,360
me and so all the athletes are self-funded.
713
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,160
If you can get sponsorship, that's how you fund yourself.
714
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:43,160
Let's work.
715
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:48,240
We're a little bit behind some of those other countries that fund their athletes.
716
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:52,640
It's a little harder.
717
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:57,160
Do you think government funding might be the best way forward?
718
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:04,520
Yeah, I think a lot of the federations use government funding, especially with the Olympics.
719
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:09,760
The governments generally don't give out money to non-Olympic sports.
720
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:16,960
So the Olympics, climbing the Olympics, really I think helps push the sport forward and get
721
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,880
everyone a little bit more funding and a little bit more professionalization.
722
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,720
Okay, yeah, we'll have to hope for that.
723
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,920
That would be good for everyone.
724
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:34,880
Another question, does the concept of speed bouldering interest you at all?
725
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:40,480
Yeah, I mean they used to run classic speed climbing comps.
726
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,680
So classic speed climbing is like the randomized route.
727
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,720
You just climb it as fast as you can.
728
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:52,120
I think it would be super cool to bring that type of speed climbing back.
729
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:59,840
I love the standardized route, but I think a greater audience would also like to see
730
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:01,680
the classic speed climbing come back.
731
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,520
I think it's got a different appeal to people.
732
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,000
More like real climbing, as some people might say.
733
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:15,440
Well, some people wouldn't even say like any sort of competition climbing is real climbing.
734
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:23,280
Yeah, how is like the classic speed climbing, how tall are the walls for that?
735
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:31,200
Well, they didn't have like a standardized anything, so they would like essentially chuck
736
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:35,800
a route up and start a climber.
737
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:40,960
You get what you get, it becomes a competition, I guess, a bit like a bouldering wall or a
738
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:41,960
lead wall.
739
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,600
Yeah, that would be interesting to see.
740
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:52,960
I guess I do wonder if it would have good general appeal, because I feel like non-climbers
741
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:57,280
prefer to watch speed climbing.
742
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,920
So I don't know if they would be interested in watching speed bouldering, actually.
743
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,080
Yeah, I don't know.
744
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:10,560
I feel like there's some competition, like at Edith's Rockstars, that has that kind of
745
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:15,280
speed bouldering component, I don't know if you've ever seen it, but I think it's the
746
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:16,280
final round.
747
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,800
But there's two identical boulders usually, and then there's the button at the top, at
748
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:21,800
the top out.
749
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:30,200
So I think that's kind of like speed bouldering, and there's a competition in Arco every year,
750
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:31,200
I think.
751
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:39,520
I don't remember what it's called, but it's on the big Arco competition wall in Italy,
752
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:44,080
and it's essentially like a timed speed climbing.
753
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:51,040
So they've like hard routes, and you just see people climbing as fast as they can, trying
754
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:57,400
to clip draw those, generally doing weird things, because they're trying to go so fast
755
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:58,760
on a really hard route.
756
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,760
So it's an interesting style to watch.
757
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:02,760
Oh, interesting.
758
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,960
I don't think I've seen that one.
759
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,880
I saw videos of one that happens over the water.
760
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:15,360
Yeah, that's a popular style for the deep water, so like the race.
761
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:16,360
Yeah, yeah.
762
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:23,480
Yeah, I think it's a super fun form of climbing, seems interesting, different.
763
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:28,880
Yeah, but I guess there's no room for that in your current training.
764
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,880
Not right now, maybe someday.
765
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,360
Yeah, unfortunate.
766
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,960
Maybe, yeah, hopefully one day, maybe after the Olympics are done, you can try that.
767
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:41,280
Yeah, yeah, I'll spend six months doing weird speed bouldering competitions.
768
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,480
Yeah, that was really fun.
769
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:50,080
Another question sort of along the similar lines of that, would you ever try to speed
770
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:56,960
climb a sport climb outdoors, for example, like Dan Osmond, but maybe not free soloing?
771
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:03,360
Oh, I don't really have any experience outdoor climbing.
772
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:04,920
Oh, still?
773
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,600
Yeah, I'm not a real climber.
774
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:08,600
Okay.
775
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:14,120
I have like zero outdoor climbing experience, so I think that I would not jump straight
776
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,720
into speed climbing outdoors.
777
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:22,800
I think I might start with some real climbing and just do it a little slower.
778
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,120
That makes sense.
779
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,800
If you actually haven't done anything outside?
780
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:35,280
I've been bouldering like twice, but I didn't really find anything, I didn't really know
781
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,280
what I was doing.
782
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:39,280
Yeah.
783
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:40,280
Yeah, crazy.
784
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,280
Where did you boulder outside twice?
785
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,280
I've been to the Grand Pians.
786
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:52,040
I went to the Grand Pians bouldering festival in 2018, and I had no idea what I was doing.
787
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:56,320
I showed up and I climbed a rock, so I didn't really know what rock it was.
788
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:57,320
Okay.
789
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:58,320
Yeah.
790
00:55:58,320 --> 00:55:59,320
Where is that?
791
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:00,320
The Grand Pians.
792
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:06,360
It's about four hours outside of Melbourne, the national park in Australia.
793
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:12,560
Is there just not much outside in Australia, or you're just too focused on competition?
794
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:16,520
I think I've mostly just been too focused on competition.
795
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:22,400
That's what I live in felt like right now, and there's top quality boulders, 20 minutes
796
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,680
up the canyon, but world class, and I just haven't gone.
797
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,280
No, I totally get that.
798
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,360
I haven't gone either, and I live in Vegas.
799
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:32,360
Yeah.
800
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:37,760
Sometimes you just want to go to your nice air-conditioned gym.
801
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,360
For real, yes.
802
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:41,360
Okay.
803
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:47,840
Last one, any opinions on the future development of speed climbing as a sport?
804
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,800
Any different formats that you're interested in?
805
00:56:50,800 --> 00:57:02,720
I read recently that they're actually doing new formats for the next world game.
806
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:10,480
The only events happening are speed events, and they have a leeway event, and they have
807
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,760
the classic pairing, and I think they have a four-lane race.
808
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:15,760
Whoa.
809
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:16,760
Yeah.
810
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:23,440
So there's new events happening, but I don't know that they will be as common to come by
811
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:29,640
as the classic two-lane race that happens in World Cup.
812
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:30,720
Yeah.
813
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:35,760
Any one of those that you are really interested in trying out?
814
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:42,920
I feel like the reways are really interesting styles because the timing system is a little
815
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:48,320
bit different in the way that only the first person has the sound, and then they go and
816
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:53,120
hit the timer at the top and the light down the bottom changer, and that tells the person
817
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:59,440
that they can then go instead of having more excessive sounds happening.
818
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,760
Yeah, that would be...
819
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,480
Yeah, it would be interesting to try.
820
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:05,480
Yeah.
821
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:13,080
It's probably not something that's going to become an Olympic sport, but...
822
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,680
Probably not, but it's a cool, fun format.
823
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,000
Yeah, that would be interesting to see.
824
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:27,320
I think I've also heard of people saying that they would change the speed route one day
825
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,240
to just something totally different.
826
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:34,200
Is that actually something that's in the talks or just something people like?
827
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:38,520
Yeah, I have heard that they're discussing it.
828
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:42,440
I don't think they're at the point of discussing what they'll change it to.
829
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,720
They're at the point of discussing, like, should we change it?
830
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,520
We will change it, and what do we change it to?
831
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:55,960
I think the Athlete's Commission is the one that is in discussions about that.
832
00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:01,400
The IFSC level, I'll probably talk about it for a few years, I reckon.
833
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,440
But I'll decide what to do.
834
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:05,440
Yeah.
835
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:13,560
Is the goal to just change it every few years so it doesn't get, I don't know, stale?
836
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:20,400
Yeah, I think the one I've heard is they would change it and they'd kind of leave it for
837
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,360
a while and everyone would train it.
838
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,880
At some point they would change it again.
839
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:35,120
So it's just mixing it up so that you don't end up hitting the fastest possible time,
840
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,320
like humanly possible time.
841
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,800
I mean, nothing wrong with that.
842
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:45,560
They haven't changed the kind of track that people run on.
843
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:46,560
Yeah.
844
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,320
I don't know.
845
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,120
How would you think about it?
846
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:54,160
Is that something you would be excited for or do you want to just keep working on this
847
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:55,160
same one?
848
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:56,160
I don't know.
849
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:03,960
I really like the current route and I feel like I have a long way to go before I hit
850
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:04,960
that perfection.
851
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:10,600
So I think I'd be a little sad to see it go before I really have a chance to reach my
852
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:11,600
potential, I think.
853
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:19,720
But also having a new route, I think, would really clean slate for everyone and you'd
854
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:26,280
end up seeing different people at the top because of the way that the movement changes,
855
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:27,280
I think.
856
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:33,960
But on the other side, I think that if creating a new route puts the smaller countries at
857
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:40,640
a bit of a disadvantage, it took us, Australia, so long to get us people to start with.
858
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:47,560
And then to change it, if they changed the angle or the length of it, it would go everyone
859
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,840
else who can't afford to just build a new wall.
860
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:52,640
Yeah, that's true.
861
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:56,200
So it's a tricky decision for them.
862
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,480
Yeah, that makes sense.
863
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:08,600
It might also kind of make, I guess, a difference with how old you are when they change the
864
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,640
route, maybe.
865
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,920
So that would also be interesting to see how that plays into it.
866
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:20,200
Yeah, imagine if they change the route, a lot of the athletes that are pretty far into
867
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:25,640
their career would end up retiring instead of starting from scratch.
868
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,960
Yeah, that would be interesting.
869
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:33,760
Do you have an idea of maybe an age where you feel like you'd be done?
870
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:35,640
I don't know.
871
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,000
I think that it's...
872
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:45,560
Like there's a small one that's, I think, 36 and just came back from a torn bicep injury
873
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:47,040
at the top of the field.
874
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:53,800
So like, really, you can be 15 or you can be 36.
875
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:54,800
You never know.
876
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:56,920
Depends on the person, I guess.
877
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:00,120
Yeah, that is a crazy story.
878
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:01,120
Yeah.
879
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:02,120
Yeah.
880
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:03,120
Okay, awesome.
881
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,760
I think that is all the questions I had.
882
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:09,640
Thank you so much for joining me today.
883
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:10,640
Of course.
884
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:15,000
Yeah, is there anything that you want to shout out or let people know where they can find
885
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:16,000
you?
886
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,000
You can find me on Instagram.
887
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:22,200
My Instagram is at Grace Crowley.
888
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,200
I'm sure you'll tag it.
889
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:26,200
Yeah, it'll be tag.
890
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:27,200
That's the easiest place to find me.
891
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:31,720
I guess the only thing is also, like, the letters are kind of switched.
892
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,720
So that really confused me at first.
893
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:38,000
So yeah, it's my last name, but the last two letters are switched.
894
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:39,000
Yeah, okay.
895
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:40,000
Awesome.
896
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:44,640
Yeah, I'll leave that in the links everywhere.
897
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:46,800
But yeah, thank you again.
898
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:48,360
It was amazing to talk to you.
899
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,040
Yeah, thanks for having me.
900
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:53,160
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.
901
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:57,240
If you're watching on YouTube, I would love to hear your discussion and thoughts in the
902
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,000
comments below.
903
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,120
And don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.
904
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:07,200
If you're listening through a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and
905
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:13,080
you can continue the discussion through my competition climbing Discord linked in all
906
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:16,120
the descriptions through all the platforms.
907
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:32,920
Thanks again for listening.

Jinni Xia

4: Grace Crowley, Speed Climber

Show Notes

Timestamps

Full Transcript

5: Albert Ok, Speed Coach + Injury Collector

3: Jonathan Sin, Aspiring Pro Climber