66: Bharath & Vishak, Team India Boulderers

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the setters don't really know anything about

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complex movement like i think the head setter

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climbs like v6 it was a comp where in the finals

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there was zero tops and zero zones there's a

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guy and you'll be like hey how long do you think

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before i have to climb and he'll be like maybe

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20 minutes oh he'll say maybe 20 minutes and

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then like five minutes later he's like it's your

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turn that that can happen a lot Like there was

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this one camp where I was in youth. They told

00:00:31.489 --> 00:00:33.469
us that we need to sleep for six hours to lose

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weight or something like that. And I was like,

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what? Age for like peak competitiveness is going

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to increase quite a bit. Welcome to another episode

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of the That's Not World Climbing podcast. I'm

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your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce

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my guests for today, Bharath Pereira and Vishak

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Oomen Shanker. Bharath and Vishak are climbers

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from Team India who now have experience at several

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World Series events. In this episode, we'll hear

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about the unique challenges they face climbing

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and training in India, some crazy stories about

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the worst bouldering nationals ever, why they

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think the average age for comp climbing will

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get older, and how they aim to grow climbing

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in India by route setting and making climbing

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shoes. I hope you enjoy this episode with Bharath

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and Vishak. Please pardon this brief intermission,

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but let me tell you about Mad Rock's Remora Pro.

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Now back to the show. How are you guys doing

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today and how has Tokyo been? Tokyo's been pretty

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good so far. usually when i'm here my biceps

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start hurting a lot and it's like a lot of like

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compression and stuff i'm not used to back home

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and it's taken me like a week for it to start

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hurting and then i took a nice rest day yesterday

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where i went into like we went and took a dip

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in a river super fun yeah him being in tokyo

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has been pretty hard for me because i'm just

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sitting here and watching everything on instagram

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so Yeah, you're feeling a bit jealous. Yeah,

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very, very, very jealous. Have you been before?

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Yeah, yeah. Three times, I think. How does the

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climbing there compare to back home? I would

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say it's like, it's almost like a different sport

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in a lot of ways. Because what we have is like

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a very old classical style of climbing, at least

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what we used to have. And what we grew up on

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was those old classic PU horse. Not even PU,

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like PE. Like, not flexible at all, super brittle.

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And super old EP holds, like, enterprise, entrepre.

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Yeah. They used to make holds, and then we have,

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like, copies of those holds from... Not even

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the early 2000s. Wait, what? Yeah, like, early

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2000s or before that. Okay, yeah. So then when

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both of us went to, like, Tokyo for, like, two

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months, we kind of understood... so much more

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about movement and we brought that back and like

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we started setting and i started making holds

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and then like everything started clicking and

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like now it's gotten a lot better like we're

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like miles ahead of what we used to be two or

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three years ago i think especially the the movement

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is what we really learned from the because i

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don't think that's something we really used to

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focus on we were just told get stronger get stronger

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get stronger just keep pulling on smaller and

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smaller edges and yeah pretty much well we'll

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definitely get into the details of that a bit

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later um but i guess for now do you have any

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like other favorite places to train or is it

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always just there's nowhere better than tokyo

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or japan in general i guess i've been to paris

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as well and i think that's really good um but

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for me i think tokyo is the best for sure like

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i've spent a lot of time here and i'm very comfortable

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here And I do think that the style kind of doesn't

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suit me that well because I'm a little larger

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and a lot of the boxes are really small. And

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so it helps me work on a lot more of my weaknesses

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than Paris would. Yeah, I also really like Paris

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actually, especially for like comp style training.

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I find the boulders translate really well to

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stuff that you'd find at a World Cup. And also

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in Tokyo, I find it really hard not to. I don't

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know if you've been, but the 7 -Elevens have

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like a lot of snacks and a lot of desserts. It

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looks good, yeah. I can't stop. It's like a problem.

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It's just like I have to eat all of that. And

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luckily, I didn't have that problem in Europe.

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Yeah, the food in Europe is not as enticing.

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Yeah, we would sometimes like not be able to

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sleep. It would be like 1 a .m. And then we look

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at each other and we know what we're thinking.

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And then we look at each other and be like, do

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you want to go? And then he'll be like, if you

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want to go, we'll go. And I was like, no, no,

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if you want to go. And then we end up both going

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to the convenience store and just buying midnight

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snacks. Yeah, it's pretty bad. Like a nice cute

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walk. Yeah. I've never actually been. What's

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like, what are the best snacks there? I've not

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had anything that's bad. Like nothing is. bad

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in Tokyo like we just try out different snacks

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all the time it's like the ice creams are so

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good and the there's like this um fish it's the

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shape of a fish it's not an actual fish and then

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it has custard inside it oh my god it's so yummy

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I just had it yesterday yeah yeah oh wait I forget

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what that's called I get them all the time here

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too yeah I'm wondering though I mean A lot of

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people really like Japan, but have you guys seen

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the meme where people, like, post a place, and

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it's, like, a regular photo, and then they post

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place Japan, and then it's, like, suddenly amazing,

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and everyone's super into it, and it's, like,

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you haven't seen it. No. I haven't. Basically,

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people are, like, glazing Japan too much. But

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I haven't been, so I wouldn't know. No, it is

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pretty good. Yeah, it's about appropriate. Okay,

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makes sense. Well, then just getting into your

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guys' climbing history, when did you both start

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climbing and competing? I started when I was

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five, back in 2005. My uncle was the coach of

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the national team back then. And as my family

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was passing by a stadium where he used to train

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some of his athletes, we decided to stop by and

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say hi. So then I started climbing. And I climbed

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pretty high. It was like top rope back then.

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I climbed pretty high and he was like, this kid

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is really good and I'm going to train this kid.

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So then he trained me till I was 11. And since

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then, I've been training myself. I got my first

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international medal in an Asian youth, kind of

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like Asian kids championship in 2008 when I was

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eight. And like, I got so much attention from

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people. It was like an under 10 category. Wow.

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I didn't know they had international competitions

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for under 10 years old. That's crazy. They tried

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that out in Asia. I don't think they had that

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in Europe or the US. But yeah, they tried that

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out. And then they don't have that anymore. They

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decided it wasn't a good idea. Yeah, I think

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it's too young to ask kids to compete at that

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age. It's like you don't want them to start thinking

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about competition. that young I think it should

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still be fun but somehow it did help me like

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I didn't think of it as competition but I got

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a lot of attention for winning those medals and

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everyone was like wow this kid is so cool and

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I think that's what made me stick to climbing

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and competing and wanting to you know do well

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for my country I started way way later I started

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I think when I was 13 14 And I was actually getting

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into a lot of trouble just climbing around in

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school. I love to climb buildings, like not anymore,

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but back in the day. And then there was this

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teacher who just said, so we, it was a boarding

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school and it was located in like this valley

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full of like boulders. And he's like, hey, there's

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this sport called bouldering, which I think he'd

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been doing for like two months. But he had a

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pair of shoes and then he took me and started

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out on like. super super basic climbs but then

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I just found it like really addictive and I started

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I went to the same place that he went to which

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was basically like the stadium in Bangalore with

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like two walls maybe like two top rope lead walls

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it's like 16 feet uh each wall like top rope

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wall and we would boulder at the bottom of that

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uh right yeah like that was our bouldering wall

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And back then, it was kind of like if you climbed

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as a kid, you competed. That's just what everyone

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did. And that's what I did as well. And I had

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a pretty miserable junior career. I don't know

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how that worked out. And I stayed motivated after

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that. But I never made a final. I never got a

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medal, nothing. But I really, really enjoyed

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the sport in itself, I think. It was important

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to find that out. because it meant that the results

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didn't matter so much. And then I got my first

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national medal last year. And this year there

00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.960
was a national cup and I won that. So it's been

00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:45.600
going uphill. Yeah, congrats. I mean, starting

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out later, I guess it makes sense that you wouldn't

00:10:48.139 --> 00:10:51.200
have done super well. in the junior category

00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:53.740
considering you were just starting out did you

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guys already know each other like at that point

00:10:55.940 --> 00:10:59.039
no when he started out we didn't know each other

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i kind of knew that there was this up -and -coming

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kid but uh no i didn't really pay attention and

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also he would only climb for like i think one

00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:11.320
month in a year or two months in a year because

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he would come he would be in boarding school

00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:15.500
and then he would come and during the summer

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he would climb for like those one or two months

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so i'd see him here and there But no, I didn't

00:11:22.330 --> 00:11:24.889
really know him. When I started out, I think

00:11:24.889 --> 00:11:28.509
he was just entering men's. Like the open category.

00:11:28.730 --> 00:11:32.029
Yeah, the open category. And everyone was like,

00:11:32.090 --> 00:11:34.710
this is the next big thing. And like, I think

00:11:34.710 --> 00:11:37.870
he won. You won that, yo. Yeah. So that was like

00:11:37.870 --> 00:11:43.230
one of my best moments. I think I won in lead.

00:11:43.470 --> 00:11:46.970
I won in boulder and I came second in speed.

00:11:47.250 --> 00:11:50.509
Oh, wow. You did speed too. Yeah, I went for

00:11:50.509 --> 00:11:53.889
the youth Olympics, which means I had to do all

00:11:53.889 --> 00:11:56.769
three. And at the time, all the Indians were

00:11:56.769 --> 00:11:58.730
doing all three. Like if you competed, you competed

00:11:58.730 --> 00:12:01.070
in lead speed and boulder. And how did you like

00:12:01.070 --> 00:12:06.570
speed climbing? Very mixed feelings. I think

00:12:06.570 --> 00:12:09.250
I learned to love it. I loved classical speed,

00:12:09.429 --> 00:12:15.750
which is kind of like rock masters. But it was

00:12:15.750 --> 00:12:18.330
on top rope where you have like, it's not the

00:12:18.330 --> 00:12:21.320
standard. speed route it's the routes keep changing

00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:24.460
every competition and that's what i really liked

00:12:24.460 --> 00:12:28.580
um and that's what we used to have in india because

00:12:28.580 --> 00:12:30.200
we didn't have the speed wall for the long time

00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:35.220
we would just have that kind of speed um that's

00:12:35.220 --> 00:12:37.159
what speed climbing used to be like before the

00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:41.139
speed route right when was the speed route created

00:12:41.139 --> 00:12:46.750
oh i want to say 2008 or nine We didn't have

00:12:46.750 --> 00:12:49.529
a speed wall for much longer than that. I think

00:12:49.529 --> 00:12:53.250
maybe in our city, we had one, a proper speed

00:12:53.250 --> 00:12:57.269
wall in maybe 2018, 19? Oh, okay. Wow. I think,

00:12:57.269 --> 00:13:00.769
yeah, 2019. Yeah, 2019. Wait, so did you compete

00:13:00.769 --> 00:13:06.629
in speed by only preparing with like fast climbing?

00:13:06.929 --> 00:13:09.429
Yeah, people have. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's crazy.

00:13:10.570 --> 00:13:14.509
And we show up to the speed wall and then we

00:13:14.509 --> 00:13:19.460
just climb. That year, in 2017, my first Open

00:13:19.460 --> 00:13:24.899
Nationals, I spent two weeks in Delhi training

00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:29.340
for speed. I had climbed on the speed route before,

00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:31.259
but that was the first time I actually dedicated

00:13:31.259 --> 00:13:35.080
a lot of time training for speed. And in two

00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:38.320
weeks, I had the comp and I trained really well.

00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:41.580
I got my sequence dialed and then I ended up

00:13:41.580 --> 00:13:45.740
setting the national record. For speed, which

00:13:45.740 --> 00:13:48.340
I think is like insane for like two weeks of

00:13:48.340 --> 00:13:51.039
training. Yeah, no, that's really cool. I think

00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:57.460
it was 7 .18. Wait, that's not bad at all. Yeah.

00:13:57.539 --> 00:14:00.960
And this was back in 2019. But I think that it

00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:02.940
wasn't a great thing because after that he did

00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:05.759
speed like seriously for like a bunch of years.

00:14:06.100 --> 00:14:09.700
Okay. And you regret that? I do. I do regret

00:14:09.700 --> 00:14:11.960
that. It feels like I just started. Just because

00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:15.429
it took time away from. Like bouldering, which

00:14:15.429 --> 00:14:18.769
you actually like doing more? Yeah, yeah. I love

00:14:18.769 --> 00:14:21.950
bouldering. And when you do speed, the friction

00:14:21.950 --> 00:14:26.370
on the wall kind of wears out your nails. I don't

00:14:26.370 --> 00:14:28.570
know whether it was just because I was bad. But

00:14:28.570 --> 00:14:31.389
you keep going at it. You keep hitting the wall.

00:14:31.649 --> 00:14:35.129
You're not really soft when you hit it. So I

00:14:35.129 --> 00:14:36.950
keep wearing out my nails. And I know this is

00:14:36.950 --> 00:14:38.490
a common thing for speed climbers. And some of

00:14:38.490 --> 00:14:40.250
them would super glue their nails back together.

00:14:41.129 --> 00:14:43.529
uh back to their skin or they would tape it up

00:14:43.529 --> 00:14:47.269
and then put super glue on it um so i would do

00:14:47.269 --> 00:14:49.889
a lot of that stuff and because of that you know

00:14:49.889 --> 00:14:52.289
how like super sensitive that like under the

00:14:52.289 --> 00:14:54.850
nail is oh yeah so i wouldn't be able to crimp

00:14:54.850 --> 00:14:58.090
because it would just it would bleed and it would

00:14:58.090 --> 00:15:00.850
hurt so then i kind of stopped bouldering as

00:15:00.850 --> 00:15:04.149
much i would just climb on jugs uh boulder on

00:15:04.149 --> 00:15:08.110
jugs or maybe slopers but yeah i think that's

00:15:08.110 --> 00:15:10.330
why my finger strength is really bad right now

00:15:10.669 --> 00:15:12.330
Yeah, I've talked to a couple of speed climbers,

00:15:12.389 --> 00:15:15.250
but I haven't heard of that. Maybe it's so normal

00:15:15.250 --> 00:15:17.450
for them that they don't even bother mentioning

00:15:17.450 --> 00:15:22.750
it. But okay, good to know. I guess, what was

00:15:22.750 --> 00:15:25.350
the climbing scene like in India when you first

00:15:25.350 --> 00:15:28.149
started versus what it's like now? When I first

00:15:28.149 --> 00:15:30.129
started, I don't even really remember because

00:15:30.129 --> 00:15:33.789
I was so young. But I feel like I knew every

00:15:33.789 --> 00:15:37.669
climber in the country at that point. And it

00:15:37.669 --> 00:15:40.679
was very small. And the outdoor scene was also

00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:45.740
pretty small and everybody knew everybody. But

00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:50.940
now it's getting really popular, especially in

00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:55.600
our city. I think there are about nine gyms now.

00:15:57.299 --> 00:16:02.919
Three or four of them are really good or possible.

00:16:03.700 --> 00:16:06.419
I'm not saying good compared to outside India.

00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:09.539
it's like you can start climbing and it's not

00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:12.899
you if you're like a beginner or intermediate

00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:15.860
these gyms are still really good um and i think

00:16:15.860 --> 00:16:18.179
it's going to get way more popular now there

00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:20.820
are so many people that i've never met have no

00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:25.919
idea about and they climb like v7 i don't even

00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.600
know them but i remember like maybe 10 years

00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:32.480
ago i knew every climber that climbed um anything

00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:36.860
above like v5 I think commercially the growth

00:16:36.860 --> 00:16:39.600
has been amazing and it's going in the right

00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:43.559
direction. But I think from a competitive standpoint,

00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:48.200
we still have pretty far to go. That still needs

00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:51.000
a lot of work. Especially the style and stuff

00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:53.500
that we compete in, it doesn't translate very

00:16:53.500 --> 00:16:58.659
well to IFSC comps. Is it still a very old school

00:16:58.659 --> 00:17:02.659
style setting? It's slightly newer. But I would

00:17:02.659 --> 00:17:06.259
still say it really lacks complexity, which is

00:17:06.259 --> 00:17:08.799
the main thing that I'm always seeing on the

00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:12.519
world stage or like even at an Asia Cup is it's

00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:15.079
not just hard moves, it's complex moves. And

00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.160
that's how they get the separation. But here

00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.059
it's often just pretty straightforward, hard

00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:24.359
moves. Like all strength based kind of? Yeah.

00:17:24.819 --> 00:17:27.400
I mean, I've been waiting for a slab, like a

00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:29.960
real slab for I think three years, three and

00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:33.589
a half years now. yeah no luck with that yeah

00:17:33.589 --> 00:17:36.369
vishak is like the best slab climber in india

00:17:36.369 --> 00:17:40.150
by far thank you like people think i'm good at

00:17:40.150 --> 00:17:43.869
slab but like he's so good at slabs but we always

00:17:43.869 --> 00:17:47.650
train slabs and then when you know when we show

00:17:47.650 --> 00:17:49.950
up at a comp there's like sometimes no slabs

00:17:49.950 --> 00:17:53.029
at all it's like all slightly overhung so like

00:17:53.029 --> 00:17:55.710
none of the gyms near you have slab at all or

00:17:55.710 --> 00:17:58.890
it just doesn't get reset the gyms have slab

00:17:58.890 --> 00:18:02.509
and We can train a lot of slab and we do a lot

00:18:02.509 --> 00:18:04.930
of really cool slab. It's just that it never

00:18:04.930 --> 00:18:09.109
comes in competition in India. Oh, okay. I see.

00:18:09.130 --> 00:18:10.990
Like during nationals and stuff like that. Or

00:18:10.990 --> 00:18:14.730
if it's come, it's been like ridiculously impossible.

00:18:15.750 --> 00:18:19.150
I think this time there was a slab and out of

00:18:19.150 --> 00:18:21.609
eight people, I think three people kind of took

00:18:21.609 --> 00:18:25.690
off. Possibly. Oh, like started. Yeah. Wow. Okay.

00:18:26.130 --> 00:18:29.710
Well, did you do it? No, I started. and he also

00:18:29.710 --> 00:18:33.150
started but that's about it yeah yeah the the

00:18:33.150 --> 00:18:37.269
setters don't really know uh anything about complex

00:18:37.269 --> 00:18:40.029
movement like i think the head setter climbs

00:18:40.029 --> 00:18:45.009
like v6 or v7 so it's really hard for them to

00:18:45.009 --> 00:18:48.549
gauge what it would be like for sound the slamming

00:18:48.549 --> 00:18:52.470
like v11 v12 or like even set even setting like

00:18:52.470 --> 00:18:57.230
a v8 slab he doesn't understand or they don't

00:18:57.230 --> 00:18:59.650
really understand the movement or like the complexity

00:18:59.650 --> 00:19:02.069
involved with it they're also not given that

00:19:02.069 --> 00:19:05.849
many options in terms of like holds yeah because

00:19:05.849 --> 00:19:07.549
like in the government facilities where like

00:19:07.549 --> 00:19:10.430
the comps happen they're very restricted like

00:19:10.430 --> 00:19:15.190
they barely have any holes and the walls are

00:19:15.190 --> 00:19:18.309
kind of falling apart sometimes and the facility

00:19:18.309 --> 00:19:20.730
is really bad a lot of times you kind of use

00:19:20.730 --> 00:19:24.660
like you know how A lot of climbers use the edge

00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:29.880
of a volume. Right, yeah. We use the gaps between

00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:35.180
panels as well. The walls actually come out in

00:19:35.180 --> 00:19:37.819
a lot of places. So it's like your home wall,

00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.880
it's a pretty big advantage to know where that's...

00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:46.640
There was one year where I trained, I felt like

00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:49.930
I was in really good shape. But I didn't even

00:19:49.930 --> 00:19:53.410
qualify to nationals because somebody got a zone

00:19:53.410 --> 00:19:56.089
using like part of the wall and like there's

00:19:56.089 --> 00:19:59.730
a bit of a bolt sticking out. And that's pretty

00:19:59.730 --> 00:20:03.490
hard to deal with. But that happens. Okay, I

00:20:03.490 --> 00:20:05.670
would need to see a photo. Well, so you mentioned

00:20:05.670 --> 00:20:08.089
that the like head setter of the competition

00:20:08.089 --> 00:20:12.130
would only climb like V6 or V7. I guess if that's

00:20:12.130 --> 00:20:16.009
kind of the case, how do you guys get to become,

00:20:16.009 --> 00:20:20.420
I guess, like stronger? Because I feel like it's

00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:22.859
kind of hard to become stronger than the hardest

00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:25.720
level that someone else can set. So the head

00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:30.519
setter is only for the competitions. But when

00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:33.839
setting for the local gyms and even gyms in other

00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:38.279
cities, that's basically just athletes. And that

00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:41.440
level has been pretty high and increasing over

00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.259
the last few years, I'd say. Yeah, so like I'm

00:20:44.259 --> 00:20:47.299
setting in a certain gym and Vishak gets to climb

00:20:47.299 --> 00:20:49.900
that. of Vishak sets in the night climate and

00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:54.599
we tend to do a lot of custom boulders from like

00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:57.339
the existing set and then a lot of spray walls

00:20:57.339 --> 00:21:01.380
so we get strong with that but then in a comp

00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:04.920
all the strong all the really good setters would

00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:08.099
be the athletes so they don't want to set like

00:21:08.099 --> 00:21:11.380
they want their chance at competing and you know

00:21:11.380 --> 00:21:16.509
like proving themselves or the athletes that

00:21:16.509 --> 00:21:19.809
have kind of they're really good but they don't

00:21:19.809 --> 00:21:21.710
really want to compete anymore they don't know

00:21:21.710 --> 00:21:26.730
because they're not you don't get much from setting

00:21:26.730 --> 00:21:32.250
um in india like it's nobody it's a very like

00:21:32.250 --> 00:21:37.150
thankless job like it's really hard plus the

00:21:37.150 --> 00:21:41.049
athletes are gonna uh shit on you the organizers

00:21:41.049 --> 00:21:43.529
are gonna shit on you the audience is gonna shit

00:21:43.529 --> 00:21:46.819
on you it Because you're restricted with how

00:21:46.819 --> 00:21:48.539
many holes you have. You're restricted with the

00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:50.819
wall. You're restricted with time. A lot of the

00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:52.819
IFSC setters get a lot more time. And in India,

00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.619
they have very less time to set. So they're not

00:21:56.619 --> 00:21:59.359
able to set quality, which is understandable.

00:21:59.859 --> 00:22:03.519
But it's not fair to us athletes. Yeah, I mean,

00:22:03.539 --> 00:22:06.920
it sounds difficult even to set for yourselves

00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:10.819
because I guess you have to... challenge yourself

00:22:10.819 --> 00:22:13.940
enough and then also believe that it's something

00:22:13.940 --> 00:22:17.579
that you can do if you work harder at it yeah

00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:20.400
it's when you're like not surrounded by a bunch

00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.259
of people who are also climbing hard it's hard

00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:26.140
to like motivate yourself and like know what's

00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:29.839
possible yeah it is and honestly it is one of

00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:33.000
the biggest problems I think that we deal with

00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:36.720
is it's hard to motivate ourselves when we're

00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.680
in India like when we're outside like traveling

00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:41.700
there's so many strong people but when we're

00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:47.279
in India there's like not that many people that

00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:50.700
climb hard and sometimes I'll be in India but

00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:52.900
he'll be traveling and like that's the worst

00:22:52.900 --> 00:22:54.960
because I'm seeing all of these videos and I'm

00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:59.180
seeing him like climb hard and I'm just stuck

00:22:59.180 --> 00:23:04.039
there with like old holes and yeah it's just

00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:06.680
pretty demotivating or like right now he's there

00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:09.940
and I'm here It's okay when we're both there

00:23:09.940 --> 00:23:15.019
together. It's still, we get to train. That's

00:23:15.019 --> 00:23:18.660
an issue with India is that it's a large country.

00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:22.299
And you can say there's maybe like five, six

00:23:22.299 --> 00:23:25.299
climbers who are really strong and who can motivate

00:23:25.299 --> 00:23:29.640
you and push you. But everyone is just so spread

00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:34.609
out. Like Bangalore to Delhi is... It's not close.

00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:36.690
It's a two and a half hour flight. Yeah, it is

00:23:36.690 --> 00:23:40.410
a big country. I guess, is there like a history

00:23:40.410 --> 00:23:43.269
of climbing at all there or like any other Indian

00:23:43.269 --> 00:23:45.369
climbers that you had looked up to when you were

00:23:45.369 --> 00:23:52.450
growing up? Yeah, him. There are a few. There's

00:23:52.450 --> 00:23:57.430
Praveen CM, who was the national champion for

00:23:57.430 --> 00:24:03.799
like many years. He was... student of my uncle

00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:08.039
so like my coach my uncle coached him and then

00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:13.119
like I was like a few generations later and he

00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:16.559
went on to become a setter he was one of the

00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:20.000
head setters I think he was I used to think he

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:22.380
was a good setter but then there was this one

00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:25.980
comp the worst comp in the history of climbing

00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:30.190
ever ever please excuse this brief intermission

00:24:30.190 --> 00:24:32.910
but if you're interested in joining a free comp

00:24:32.910 --> 00:24:35.450
climbing community where we'll be live chatting

00:24:35.450 --> 00:24:38.289
during all the upcoming world series events check

00:24:38.289 --> 00:24:41.529
out the discord link is in the description now

00:24:41.529 --> 00:24:45.170
back to the show okay what happened like yeah

00:24:45.170 --> 00:24:47.990
like i asked other athletes from around the world

00:24:47.990 --> 00:24:50.170
whether they've had a comp worse than this and

00:24:50.170 --> 00:24:52.589
nobody said that they've even heard of a comp

00:24:52.589 --> 00:24:55.069
that could be this bad it was a comp where in

00:24:55.069 --> 00:24:58.119
the finals there were zero tops and zero zones

00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:02.980
wow it was honestly really really hard to watch

00:25:02.980 --> 00:25:08.200
because there was so little progress and I think

00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:11.059
by the third boulder everyone was the athletes

00:25:11.059 --> 00:25:13.240
were kind of aware of what was going on as well

00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:16.400
I was trying really hard because in the semis

00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:21.200
I came fourth and I came fourth by I think one

00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:24.859
attempt or two attempts And even then, like,

00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:26.960
there was only one deciding boulder. Like, you

00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.519
either flash, like, the earlier, I think one

00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:32.059
of the boulders was, like, you flash, another

00:25:32.059 --> 00:25:35.880
boulder was impossible, and then the third boulder

00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:39.220
was, like, kind of okay, but then the top five

00:25:39.220 --> 00:25:42.359
did it in, like, one attempt. And then the last

00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:44.400
boulder was the one I took, like, three attempts

00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.480
for, and I ended up coming in fourth. So I was

00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:50.079
trying really hard. Like, I really wanted to

00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:54.160
make podium. So I was trying, I was the only

00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:57.079
one to touch a zone, but that doesn't, yeah,

00:25:57.539 --> 00:26:00.740
that doesn't really help. But two people tied

00:26:00.740 --> 00:26:03.759
for first in semis and they both ended up winning

00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:08.420
because, you know, like it doesn't really, you

00:26:08.420 --> 00:26:11.140
can't really separate if you don't have any points.

00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:16.359
And one of the guys that won, his name is Adarsh.

00:26:17.259 --> 00:26:20.380
I called him yesterday to ask if it's okay if

00:26:20.380 --> 00:26:23.660
I... say the story but oh wow wait was he one

00:26:23.660 --> 00:26:25.640
of the climbers or was he one of the setters

00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:28.740
no no he's he won he was one of the climbers

00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:31.119
yeah he was national champion that year because

00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:35.980
of this um like in semis he won and he tied with

00:26:35.980 --> 00:26:39.079
another guy um and then in finals he didn't get

00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:42.000
to prove himself like he didn't get to show why

00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.720
he would why he's so strong so he got really

00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.119
upset and he went and the story goes that he

00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:51.599
went and he spat on the head setter but like

00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:54.680
not actual spit it was like disrespectful oh

00:26:54.680 --> 00:27:01.359
okay um and he got banned for life so he won

00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:07.700
the comp um showed his like disappointment for

00:27:07.700 --> 00:27:10.980
not being able to like you know do anything on

00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:13.160
the round not getting a zone not getting a top

00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:18.240
nobody got a zone um and then went and he i think

00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:21.299
he tore his one of his certificates because he

00:27:21.299 --> 00:27:23.599
was so disappointed and then he got banned for

00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:26.599
life for that it's it's also a pretty crazy story

00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.579
how he found out he was banned i think he heard

00:27:30.579 --> 00:27:33.400
somebody else just called him and said there's

00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:36.880
a picture of you on the imf that's our federation

00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:40.799
oh my gosh on the website and it just says basically

00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.000
yeah you're banned for life and he hasn't competed

00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:47.769
since so Oh my gosh. So he was banned from all

00:27:47.769 --> 00:27:51.190
competition climbing. Yeah, pretty much. Wow.

00:27:51.410 --> 00:27:53.869
And this is when he was national champion. Like

00:27:53.869 --> 00:27:56.769
he reached the highest level and then they decided

00:27:56.769 --> 00:28:00.049
to ban him. Okay. So what's he doing now? So

00:28:00.049 --> 00:28:03.250
he's now the strongest outdoor climber. Yeah.

00:28:03.329 --> 00:28:07.809
Okay. Interesting. And I mean, I guess he tied

00:28:07.809 --> 00:28:10.410
in semis. So like, how did they decide that he

00:28:10.410 --> 00:28:14.200
was the winner? They gave two gold medals. Interesting.

00:28:14.420 --> 00:28:18.000
And what year was this? This was 2020. It was

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.359
supposed to happen in 2019, but then they pushed

00:28:20.359 --> 00:28:25.700
it, I think, Jan 2020. Yeah. And immediately

00:28:25.700 --> 00:28:29.940
after that, COVID hit. And yeah, we couldn't

00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:32.440
climb for like the next two years. Okay. And

00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:35.339
you said that he climbs outside now. What are

00:28:35.339 --> 00:28:37.900
the cracks like? It's really good. We're actually

00:28:37.900 --> 00:28:39.579
going right after. So we're going to go for a

00:28:39.579 --> 00:28:42.819
comp at the end of October. And right after that,

00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:45.279
we're going to go back home to the mountains.

00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:50.319
It's amazing. The rock density in some of these

00:28:50.319 --> 00:28:52.619
places is so good. I've heard it's better than

00:28:52.619 --> 00:29:00.519
Magic Woods. The two places are Setan and Rakcham,

00:29:00.619 --> 00:29:02.359
which is what we're deciding where we want to

00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:07.440
go. But there are so many more places. Humpy,

00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:10.160
I'm sure you guys know Humpy from like Chris

00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.880
Sharma's video. I think he made a documentary

00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:19.339
about it. And then Rakcham, Barefoot Charles

00:29:19.339 --> 00:29:21.859
was there. But yeah, the rock quality is really

00:29:21.859 --> 00:29:24.720
good. It's a mix of gneiss and granite up there

00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:29.019
in the mountains. Pretty hard climbs, a lot of

00:29:29.019 --> 00:29:31.519
hard climbs. Vishak actually knows a little bit

00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.640
more. I think he's gone to Setan a couple more

00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.339
times than me. sort of an area with a lot of

00:29:37.339 --> 00:29:41.380
potential and i think there are some strong climbers

00:29:41.380 --> 00:29:44.279
there who've been opening stuff but honestly

00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:47.079
i feel like if a bunch of us just went and spent

00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:51.339
a month we could do so much there there's so

00:29:51.339 --> 00:29:55.299
many lines just waiting and in raksham i actually

00:29:55.299 --> 00:29:59.359
haven't been but uh burn zangrel has been opening

00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:04.170
a lot of stuff there for many years and Again,

00:30:04.289 --> 00:30:08.349
they say the density is insane. It's just like

00:30:08.349 --> 00:30:11.349
you're just walking from boulder to boulder.

00:30:11.809 --> 00:30:14.029
I think, Mishak, since this has been more of

00:30:14.029 --> 00:30:18.509
a recent experience for you with competing in

00:30:18.509 --> 00:30:21.730
World Cups or World Series events, what was your

00:30:21.730 --> 00:30:24.450
biggest shock your first time at a World Cup?

00:30:24.730 --> 00:30:31.589
I'd say there's just so much going on in ISO.

00:30:33.099 --> 00:30:36.200
it's just something that's when you arrive there

00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:39.420
it's just there's so many people it just takes

00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:42.440
a second to get used to all of it it's not that

00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:45.440
one thing was especially shocking it's just there's

00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.700
there's so many little different things like

00:30:47.700 --> 00:30:51.740
for example uh you have a time to be at the call

00:30:51.740 --> 00:30:54.640
zone as well as a starting time and there's just

00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:58.200
many little things that i find that the first

00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:02.809
time competing it's it's always hard to deal

00:31:02.809 --> 00:31:04.549
with if you haven't seen this kind of a system

00:31:04.549 --> 00:31:08.549
before because again back home it's it's you

00:31:08.549 --> 00:31:12.069
kind of play it by your it's like there's a guy

00:31:12.069 --> 00:31:13.990
and you'll be like hey how long do you think

00:31:13.990 --> 00:31:16.650
before i have to climb and he'll be like maybe

00:31:16.650 --> 00:31:19.829
20 minutes okay oh he'll say maybe 20 minutes

00:31:19.829 --> 00:31:22.930
and then like five minutes later he's like it's

00:31:22.930 --> 00:31:27.460
your turn yeah that can happen a lot Maybe to

00:31:27.460 --> 00:31:29.579
help out other climbers who haven't been to ISO

00:31:29.579 --> 00:31:32.180
before and it would be their first time. What

00:31:32.180 --> 00:31:36.000
is it like? Yeah, again, I would say the main

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.599
thing is just to relax, especially because if

00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:40.339
you're in ISO for the first time, you're probably

00:31:40.339 --> 00:31:43.660
going right at the end. And in China last year,

00:31:43.700 --> 00:31:48.059
I actually was like dead last. So, but instead

00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:51.460
of like relaxing, I was just sitting. And I think

00:31:51.460 --> 00:31:53.160
that's the worst thing you can do is just sit.

00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:55.980
And then like continue to like think about it.

00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:58.059
And then the expectation and the pressure and

00:31:58.059 --> 00:32:01.079
everything just gets worse and worse. So I think

00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:03.960
you really need to like chill out, especially

00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:05.920
until you start warming up. And once you start

00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:08.660
warming up, it's sort of okay. Because then you're

00:32:08.660 --> 00:32:11.700
climbing in. You're kind of in a familiar environment

00:32:11.700 --> 00:32:16.259
in that way. But until then, I think the main

00:32:16.259 --> 00:32:18.359
thing is just like, I don't know, have a nap,

00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:21.819
calm down, play something with, if there's somebody

00:32:21.819 --> 00:32:25.789
else you know. Play some cards. Just don't sit

00:32:25.789 --> 00:32:28.150
and think about the competition. I think that's

00:32:28.150 --> 00:32:30.569
not helpful at all. Are a lot of people really

00:32:30.569 --> 00:32:33.990
napping? Like I could never nap if I was nervous

00:32:33.990 --> 00:32:36.490
about having to compete. Like I think even the

00:32:36.490 --> 00:32:38.730
day before a competition, I would feel really

00:32:38.730 --> 00:32:41.930
nervous. I've seen quite a few people nap and

00:32:41.930 --> 00:32:45.529
I've napped as well. This is usually because

00:32:45.529 --> 00:32:49.309
ISO for some of us is like four hours or five

00:32:49.309 --> 00:32:54.279
hours long. I think it's actually important sometimes

00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:58.079
to not look at other people warming up because

00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:01.460
you see Tomo and Ayasaki like warming up and

00:33:01.460 --> 00:33:03.559
you try to remember his boulder and you see someone

00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:05.059
else warming up and like, okay, I need to try

00:33:05.059 --> 00:33:06.339
this when I'm warming up. And then like, you're

00:33:06.339 --> 00:33:11.119
so observant, but it's so taxing to like be in

00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:12.900
that environment, like a slightly competitive

00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:15.980
environment, like observe so much and you're

00:33:15.980 --> 00:33:17.839
thinking and you're thinking, I think it's just

00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:20.519
honestly, sometimes if we're there for like four

00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:23.900
or five hours, It's good to nap. It's good to

00:33:23.900 --> 00:33:28.380
nap. In Innsbruck, the warm -up area is like

00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:30.819
the bouldering area. So there's this tiny space

00:33:30.819 --> 00:33:33.640
where you can go upstairs, like the mat kind

00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:37.579
of goes up like this. And I feel like that was

00:33:37.579 --> 00:33:40.119
kind of like the designated napping zone because

00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:42.960
everyone was like climbing everywhere else. And

00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.119
up there, everyone that was there was like napping.

00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:48.099
And it's usually the climbers that are climbing

00:33:48.099 --> 00:33:50.880
towards the end. I don't think it makes sense

00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.450
for you. like nap if you're gonna start climbing

00:33:54.450 --> 00:33:58.210
in like the first 20 30 oh yeah for sure i think

00:33:58.210 --> 00:34:01.349
that's one of the big goals though to be a top

00:34:01.349 --> 00:34:03.910
climber and just to go out early and have a shorter

00:34:03.910 --> 00:34:08.449
isolation that would be like the dream yeah but

00:34:08.449 --> 00:34:12.690
what he said about uh like knowing someone or

00:34:12.690 --> 00:34:16.510
like playing cards uh that was the biggest um

00:34:16.510 --> 00:34:19.969
change for me because when i just started i would

00:34:19.969 --> 00:34:24.880
know i didn't know anyone and then i met um rodrigo

00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:27.780
uh if you've done an interview with rodrigo and

00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:30.219
i met him at innsbruck and we were training together

00:34:30.219 --> 00:34:34.079
and i finally knew someone on the circuit um

00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:39.280
and then it was so much easier um for me to chill

00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:43.159
out and like have fun and then i met juju um

00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:46.539
from the swiss team yeah he told me how important

00:34:46.539 --> 00:34:50.019
it actually is you know to have friends so that

00:34:50.019 --> 00:34:54.219
the iso feels like a familiar space and more

00:34:54.219 --> 00:34:58.239
like a fun get together rather than the actual

00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.139
isolation like your warm -up area before the

00:35:00.139 --> 00:35:03.440
comp and now i think i know i know quite a lot

00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:06.860
of people that compete and it makes it so much

00:35:06.860 --> 00:35:10.940
easier like i go into iso kind of excited to

00:35:10.940 --> 00:35:15.880
meet my friends rather than nervous for the competition

00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:19.349
i think that's like the biggest hack And even

00:35:19.349 --> 00:35:21.710
if you don't have friends, I think ISO is like

00:35:21.710 --> 00:35:24.849
a nice place to just meet a few people. But you

00:35:24.849 --> 00:35:27.150
need to know that some of these guys are like,

00:35:27.170 --> 00:35:29.409
they don't want to be spoken to because they're

00:35:29.409 --> 00:35:31.789
warming up. They're in their zone. And some of

00:35:31.789 --> 00:35:34.170
them are like kind of chill. And, you know, you

00:35:34.170 --> 00:35:35.670
see them like chilling on the mat. They're going

00:35:35.670 --> 00:35:39.590
to climb 50th or 60th. You can talk to them.

00:35:40.710 --> 00:35:44.610
Yeah. A lot of countries have their own teams.

00:35:45.110 --> 00:35:48.739
And I think... That makes it very simple. You're

00:35:48.739 --> 00:35:50.360
just hanging out with your own team. It's people

00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:54.599
you know. It's familiar. It's easy. But for us,

00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:57.780
I think if you're not careful, like it's literally

00:35:57.780 --> 00:36:01.300
called isolation. And that's exactly what it

00:36:01.300 --> 00:36:04.199
shouldn't feel like. Because once it feels like

00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:07.400
that and you're feeling alone, I think that just

00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.500
it's more likely you're going to have a negative

00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:12.960
result. Yeah, that makes sense. I can definitely

00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:16.000
see that. You've mentioned that other World Cup

00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.219
climbers have helped you a lot. Who else have

00:36:19.219 --> 00:36:20.719
you talked to and what have you learned from

00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:23.659
them? We do tend to ask for a lot of tips. And

00:36:23.659 --> 00:36:28.500
I think a good thing that me and Vishak, Vishak

00:36:28.500 --> 00:36:32.420
and I, what we do is we just ask a lot of questions

00:36:32.420 --> 00:36:35.179
and we take in as much information as we can.

00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:42.420
I think the person that probably made... The

00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:46.119
biggest difference was Luke from Singapore for

00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:51.000
me. Not in a World Cup, but like in an Asia Cup.

00:36:51.340 --> 00:36:53.980
I would actually warm up for like 20 minutes

00:36:53.980 --> 00:36:58.780
before a comp way back then. And he told me that

00:36:58.780 --> 00:37:01.599
maybe you should warm up a little longer. Like

00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:05.199
now my warm up is like two hours. Maybe you should

00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:09.860
warm up a little shorter. like on them on the

00:37:09.860 --> 00:37:12.500
on the ground i'm warming up for maybe an hour

00:37:12.500 --> 00:37:17.619
and then depends on the comp sometimes you have

00:37:17.619 --> 00:37:19.900
like a big spray wall with like a lot of space

00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:22.699
and it's you don't need as much time but sometimes

00:37:22.699 --> 00:37:25.579
the spray wall is a little more packed and it's

00:37:25.579 --> 00:37:28.780
hard to get time on the wall so that's when you

00:37:28.780 --> 00:37:31.420
probably need a longer warm -up to account for

00:37:31.420 --> 00:37:34.139
sometimes you're not gonna be able to climb on

00:37:34.139 --> 00:37:36.980
the wall like exactly when you want and also

00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:40.969
some some of the athletes and coaches just go

00:37:40.969 --> 00:37:44.530
at it like on the spray wall like they tend to

00:37:44.530 --> 00:37:46.190
be a little selfish and i think you should be

00:37:46.190 --> 00:37:49.909
um but i'm too much of a nice guy like if someone

00:37:49.909 --> 00:37:53.190
is if both of us are going towards the spray

00:37:53.190 --> 00:37:55.510
wall i'm just gonna let the other guy go it's

00:37:55.510 --> 00:37:57.789
just like a habit and i realize oh no i'm gonna

00:37:57.789 --> 00:38:00.909
comp i need to like be a little selfish um the

00:38:00.909 --> 00:38:05.070
chinese coach does this a lot um he just he's

00:38:05.070 --> 00:38:06.670
just like always on the spray wall occupying

00:38:06.670 --> 00:38:08.570
space and like helping his athletes and i think

00:38:08.570 --> 00:38:11.269
it's good it's really good for the chinese athletes

00:38:11.269 --> 00:38:14.530
and everyone should be trying to take advantage

00:38:14.530 --> 00:38:17.670
of the situation but it does get a little annoying

00:38:17.670 --> 00:38:21.110
if you're the nice guy um you're like yeah that's

00:38:21.110 --> 00:38:24.329
okay you know like i'm i'm not as important um

00:38:24.329 --> 00:38:27.769
you guys should like you know use the wall so

00:38:27.769 --> 00:38:30.230
yeah to account for all of that i kind of keep

00:38:30.230 --> 00:38:33.260
my warm up a little longer Yeah, that makes sense.

00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:35.320
Ashok, what about you? In answering your question,

00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:39.019
I think harness has also helped us a lot. It

00:38:39.019 --> 00:38:43.440
was like, he's like at like the very top and

00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.800
he's helped so much. Like we'd ask him so many

00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:50.800
questions and I don't know. I think he just enjoys

00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:53.139
answering them because he answers like all of

00:38:53.139 --> 00:38:56.780
them. And basically his tip, it's like, it sounds

00:38:56.780 --> 00:38:59.480
super basic, but it's all about like commitment.

00:39:00.230 --> 00:39:05.630
And just not being scared of moves. On slab,

00:39:05.969 --> 00:39:09.130
I feel a lot of times if your foot is going to

00:39:09.130 --> 00:39:11.650
slip, you just push away and come off. He just

00:39:11.650 --> 00:39:15.190
does not come off the wall unless he falls off

00:39:15.190 --> 00:39:20.429
the wall. Every time, it's crazy. It's like a

00:39:20.429 --> 00:39:23.090
fearless style of climbing. And also, he tries

00:39:23.090 --> 00:39:27.130
so hard. It's just motivating to climb around

00:39:27.130 --> 00:39:29.690
and be around that kind of energy. Yeah, I mean,

00:39:29.710 --> 00:39:32.809
it's easy to like think about not being scared

00:39:32.809 --> 00:39:36.550
and then saying like, oh, I'm going to just do

00:39:36.550 --> 00:39:39.329
it and like not feel fear. But then it's a totally

00:39:39.329 --> 00:39:41.409
different story, like actually doing that. I

00:39:41.409 --> 00:39:44.070
think it works. You have to integrate it slowly,

00:39:44.250 --> 00:39:46.650
though. You can't just flip a switch. It doesn't

00:39:46.650 --> 00:39:50.329
work that way. It's like a mindful thing that

00:39:50.329 --> 00:39:52.769
you do every session. And then maybe after a

00:39:52.769 --> 00:39:55.389
few months, you start to see progress. Like,

00:39:55.429 --> 00:39:57.309
well, where's some small changes you made? For

00:39:57.309 --> 00:40:00.130
example, on Slab, it is not. more like not bailing

00:40:00.130 --> 00:40:03.050
if like the attempt's not perfect or you let's

00:40:03.050 --> 00:40:06.010
say you don't hit a hole perfectly you just keep

00:40:06.010 --> 00:40:09.210
trying hard but earlier maybe i'd be like okay

00:40:09.210 --> 00:40:12.670
just let it go and get it the next time but i

00:40:12.670 --> 00:40:15.550
don't think that's conducive for a comp yeah

00:40:15.550 --> 00:40:17.349
if you hit a hold and like your finger stacks

00:40:17.349 --> 00:40:22.530
by mistake um you should just try hard anyway

00:40:22.530 --> 00:40:25.659
like even if you know that there's like um 90

00:40:25.659 --> 00:40:28.460
% chance you'd fall or 95 % chance you'd fall,

00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:31.559
just try hard anyway. Yeah, for sure. That's

00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:35.539
helped. But I also think that's a good way to

00:40:35.539 --> 00:40:38.159
get injured sometimes. If you don't know, if

00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:39.980
your body is not healthy and you're not listening

00:40:39.980 --> 00:40:43.719
to your body, you do try hard all the time. So

00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:46.980
yeah, you should know when to do what. It's a

00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:49.519
good balance. Have you had an experience with

00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.900
getting injured that way? Yeah, but it's more

00:40:52.900 --> 00:40:56.280
like I drive hard. off something it's not bad

00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:58.980
injuries it's just like tweaks but i'm trying

00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:02.480
so hard and then i just dry fire off stuff my

00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:04.880
skin is really really hard and like really dry

00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:09.099
so i tend to dry fire off especially here in

00:41:09.099 --> 00:41:12.760
tokyo i dry fire off stuff a lot and if anyone

00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:17.300
has tips for me to like get my skin softer like

00:41:17.300 --> 00:41:19.679
you have to like let me know because i do i don't

00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:22.059
know how to do it i've been sleeping with like

00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:25.420
joshua tree maybe or like some moisturizer and

00:41:25.420 --> 00:41:28.019
i put gloves on in the night and i sleep wow

00:41:28.019 --> 00:41:30.599
you do it already wow yeah that's what i was

00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:33.059
gonna suggest i can kind of like show you my

00:41:33.059 --> 00:41:39.639
weird gloves oh yeah this i got in like a convenience

00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:44.760
store and i've like kind of cut it uh cut it

00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:49.639
open but it's like um just the fingers just the

00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:53.550
fingers are on so like each of these go in and

00:41:53.550 --> 00:41:57.329
i cut this because it feels too tight over here

00:41:57.329 --> 00:42:00.130
but like now just the fingers are like soft basically

00:42:00.130 --> 00:42:02.650
a lot of thought has gone into this yeah and

00:42:02.650 --> 00:42:05.889
that still doesn't work for you yeah no my skin

00:42:05.889 --> 00:42:09.269
still gets hard like 10 minutes no maybe like

00:42:09.269 --> 00:42:12.070
20 or 30 minutes outside the gloves it starts

00:42:12.070 --> 00:42:13.730
to get hard so like i have to keep moisturizing

00:42:13.730 --> 00:42:16.309
it all the time i've tried lotion i've tried

00:42:16.309 --> 00:42:20.699
vaseline i've tried My ex -girlfriend actually

00:42:20.699 --> 00:42:25.900
got me shea butter from like Africa, like really

00:42:25.900 --> 00:42:28.519
good just shea butter. And then I've used that.

00:42:28.699 --> 00:42:32.679
That seems to help the most. But yeah, it's,

00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:35.960
I don't know. I don't know what to do to like

00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:38.139
make the change permanent. It's always like a

00:42:38.139 --> 00:42:40.719
temporary solution. I have like the opposite

00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:45.599
problem where my skin wears out super fast. I

00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:47.360
mean, it's pretty soft and I feel great when

00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:51.940
I start. But yeah, we're always like discussing

00:42:51.940 --> 00:42:54.820
which problem is worse. And we both think we

00:42:54.820 --> 00:42:57.460
have it worse. I have it worse for sure. No,

00:42:57.579 --> 00:43:01.280
I think it's me, but it's... Yeah, they both

00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:04.659
sound not super great. If anyone has tips, let

00:43:04.659 --> 00:43:08.900
them know, drop them in the comments. Yeah, the

00:43:08.900 --> 00:43:11.920
dry one, I hear less frequently. Usually people

00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:14.420
are complaining about like sweating through their

00:43:14.420 --> 00:43:17.699
fingertips. So the problem with mine is as soon

00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:20.690
as... When my skin is really thin, when it heals

00:43:20.690 --> 00:43:23.989
up, the first layer is really hard. Oh, yeah,

00:43:24.090 --> 00:43:25.829
I know that. It doesn't heal up soft and then

00:43:25.829 --> 00:43:28.190
hard. It just heals up hard, and then it cracks

00:43:28.190 --> 00:43:32.269
really easily. Or it's really painful when it's

00:43:32.269 --> 00:43:35.190
hard and then it bends. It feels like there are

00:43:35.190 --> 00:43:38.849
a lot of needles in my fingers when I'm climbing.

00:43:39.210 --> 00:43:41.429
It's very, very painful, so I don't know how

00:43:41.429 --> 00:43:44.230
to avoid that. And it's glossy, and when you

00:43:44.230 --> 00:43:46.750
put chalk on it, it doesn't stick anymore. Yeah,

00:43:46.769 --> 00:43:50.599
yeah. That happens to me if I like blow through

00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:54.340
my tips and my solution is to just not do that.

00:43:54.380 --> 00:43:57.159
But you guys don't really have that option. So

00:43:57.159 --> 00:44:00.380
we'll see if anyone has any any tips for you

00:44:00.380 --> 00:44:02.360
there. I guess back to what you guys were saying

00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:04.739
earlier with all the people you talked to in

00:44:04.739 --> 00:44:07.420
ISO, it sounds like it's all still very friendly

00:44:07.420 --> 00:44:11.119
behind the scenes in ISO. Can you kind of describe

00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:13.760
what the dynamics are behind the wall? Are there

00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:16.659
teams that stay more to themselves, people who

00:44:16.659 --> 00:44:19.559
like talking to everyone, things like that? From

00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:23.760
what I've seen, most teams, larger teams, stay

00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:26.840
to themselves. All the top athletes climb together.

00:44:27.179 --> 00:44:29.699
It's usually the Japanese that start warming

00:44:29.699 --> 00:44:34.840
up. together and they're usually the first ones

00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:39.199
on the wall and it's cool to see that their boulders

00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:41.840
just get recycled again and again and again and

00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:44.099
again and again by the time it reaches us when

00:44:44.099 --> 00:44:47.500
we start warming up and it's kind of like Chinese

00:44:47.500 --> 00:44:51.699
whispers where towards the end it's like a different

00:44:51.699 --> 00:44:53.980
boulder but it's nice to see like the evolution

00:44:53.980 --> 00:44:57.199
but yeah what you said about what's the dynamic

00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:01.550
I think a lot of the English -speaking countries

00:45:01.550 --> 00:45:04.630
tend to be more comfortable with each other.

00:45:06.070 --> 00:45:10.130
And then maybe the Chinese -speaking countries

00:45:10.130 --> 00:45:16.429
like China, Hong Kong, Chinese Taipei, which

00:45:16.429 --> 00:45:20.889
is Taiwan, some Singaporeans. But yeah, then

00:45:20.889 --> 00:45:24.789
it's like the guys with no coach and no manager

00:45:24.789 --> 00:45:27.929
or the smaller teams, all of them kind of...

00:45:29.550 --> 00:45:34.289
are kind of like close like me um like India

00:45:34.289 --> 00:45:39.250
then there's Ed from Latvia or sometimes some

00:45:39.250 --> 00:45:43.650
someone from like Singapore or Malaysia or um

00:45:43.650 --> 00:45:47.769
yeah a lot of the smaller teams we tend to not

00:45:47.769 --> 00:45:50.909
have larger teams and we know each other so it's

00:45:50.909 --> 00:45:54.030
just easier for us to like talk and we become

00:45:54.030 --> 00:45:57.989
like our own team yeah That's what I've seen

00:45:57.989 --> 00:46:01.889
the dynamic is. But there's a lot of people that

00:46:01.889 --> 00:46:04.769
talk to each other. It's always happening. And

00:46:04.769 --> 00:46:06.570
there are a lot of people with just headphones

00:46:06.570 --> 00:46:09.389
and they just want to lock in. They don't really

00:46:09.389 --> 00:46:14.309
want to talk to anybody. Certain spaces are a

00:46:14.309 --> 00:46:18.829
little more dense. And I feel like some of the

00:46:18.829 --> 00:46:22.630
athletes or the physios come in early to occupy

00:46:22.630 --> 00:46:26.210
space. be like they want you know the center

00:46:26.210 --> 00:46:29.570
they want like the best spot best spot in iso

00:46:29.570 --> 00:46:32.489
so that their athletes could be closest to the

00:46:32.489 --> 00:46:34.630
wall or they have enough space to set up their

00:46:34.630 --> 00:46:38.309
tables but for us that never happens we don't

00:46:38.309 --> 00:46:41.269
have a coach or a man right so or just massaging

00:46:41.269 --> 00:46:45.329
him he's massaging me that's how yeah anything

00:46:45.329 --> 00:46:47.730
you want to add to that i think it is really

00:46:47.730 --> 00:46:50.789
important actually to have a coach in iso i really

00:46:50.789 --> 00:46:54.900
want like But also I want a coach who like knows

00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:57.760
a bit about it. Someone who's, you know, been

00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:01.159
there, done that would help a lot. Because I

00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:05.699
see like a lot of athletes from other teams don't

00:47:05.699 --> 00:47:07.579
even have to think about what they're doing.

00:47:08.099 --> 00:47:10.519
It's just like the coach tells you do this boulder,

00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:14.719
do that, warm this up, warm that up. But for

00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:17.420
me, it's like constantly having to think about

00:47:17.420 --> 00:47:20.519
what I'm doing next. That also takes a toll.

00:47:20.969 --> 00:47:24.610
And you guys are also like your own coaches for

00:47:24.610 --> 00:47:28.030
training and stuff too, right? Yeah. I wish we

00:47:28.030 --> 00:47:31.250
did have like a national team coach that would

00:47:31.250 --> 00:47:34.190
be able to spend time with us and understand

00:47:34.190 --> 00:47:36.030
more. But I think that's asking too much from

00:47:36.030 --> 00:47:38.070
the Federation when they're already dealing with

00:47:38.070 --> 00:47:40.329
so many things. They don't really have money

00:47:40.329 --> 00:47:42.710
to support us. They're struggling with like setting

00:47:42.710 --> 00:47:46.989
or organizing events and stuff. So like asking

00:47:46.989 --> 00:47:50.199
for a coach. who knows so much and to be dedicated

00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:54.119
towards us is, I think it's lower down on the

00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:56.639
list of what we want from our federation. But

00:47:56.639 --> 00:47:59.019
yeah, I do see how much it helps other athletes

00:47:59.019 --> 00:48:02.380
where they don't have to think about anything.

00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:05.800
They're like so locked in and yeah, it makes

00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:08.380
a big difference. We do a lot of research. We

00:48:08.380 --> 00:48:11.119
talk to a lot of people. It's just that it's

00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:13.940
like any advantage you can find, we're looking

00:48:13.940 --> 00:48:18.210
for it in terms of training. We've tried like

00:48:18.210 --> 00:48:21.949
many different things like Emil's, I think they're

00:48:21.949 --> 00:48:24.730
called Abraham's now. Oh, really? I haven't heard

00:48:24.730 --> 00:48:26.929
of that one yet. So the moment they came out,

00:48:27.010 --> 00:48:29.929
we tried those. And if I hear something interesting

00:48:29.929 --> 00:48:32.510
on a podcast or I hear it from a climber, I'll

00:48:32.510 --> 00:48:35.949
just try it for a while, see how it goes. Because

00:48:35.949 --> 00:48:39.050
I think there isn't much research on climbing

00:48:39.050 --> 00:48:42.690
training yet. People are starting to do it now,

00:48:42.849 --> 00:48:46.389
but there's still not a big... database of things

00:48:46.389 --> 00:48:49.230
and a lot of stuff hasn't been tried out yet.

00:48:50.230 --> 00:48:53.550
It's pretty experimental. And also with climbing,

00:48:53.610 --> 00:48:57.630
I don't think there's one right way. I think

00:48:57.630 --> 00:49:01.670
so many things can work and what works for different

00:49:01.670 --> 00:49:04.630
people. So we're also trying to figure out some

00:49:04.630 --> 00:49:06.230
stuff might work for Vishak more than it works

00:49:06.230 --> 00:49:09.969
for me as it does for everyone. But we're always

00:49:09.969 --> 00:49:11.769
experimenting and it would be nice to have a

00:49:11.769 --> 00:49:14.590
coach. that's experimenting with us and knows

00:49:14.590 --> 00:49:17.630
our routine and knows what we're working towards

00:49:17.630 --> 00:49:23.230
um sometimes uh in india there's like this power

00:49:23.230 --> 00:49:26.550
dynamic between a coach and an athlete and the

00:49:26.550 --> 00:49:30.750
the coach is always seen as superior the athlete

00:49:30.750 --> 00:49:34.949
is inferior or the athlete has to listen to the

00:49:34.949 --> 00:49:38.710
coach there's a lot of like elder younger respect

00:49:38.710 --> 00:49:43.519
and stuff going on it's very old school So it's

00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:49.039
hard to have that relationship with a coach who

00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:50.760
doesn't really understand that much about climbing.

00:49:50.860 --> 00:49:53.340
But because he is in this position or she is

00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:55.980
in this position, they would enforce certain

00:49:55.980 --> 00:49:59.019
things. It's gotten better over the years. And

00:49:59.019 --> 00:50:03.460
right now, we don't have a coach, but it's better

00:50:03.460 --> 00:50:06.380
than having a coach that would tell us what to

00:50:06.380 --> 00:50:08.219
do that we know is not going to work for us.

00:50:08.739 --> 00:50:11.320
And we would just have to listen. Do you have

00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:14.199
like an example of when that happened or someone

00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:17.679
you know that that happened to? There are a few

00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:20.659
stories of like national training camps where

00:50:20.659 --> 00:50:25.619
we do things that don't make any sense. Like

00:50:25.619 --> 00:50:27.380
there was this one camp where I was in youth

00:50:27.380 --> 00:50:31.360
where they told us that we need to sleep for

00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:33.480
six hours to lose weight or something like that.

00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:36.619
And I was like, what? Yeah. And they would take

00:50:36.619 --> 00:50:38.800
our phones away. They would only give it to us

00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:42.300
for like. an hour a day or like two hours a day

00:50:42.300 --> 00:50:44.219
and if we really needed it to like make a call

00:50:44.219 --> 00:50:46.559
yes we could ask for a phone but it's it's really

00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:48.940
strict i know the indonesians do train like this

00:50:48.940 --> 00:50:50.900
without their phones and they only get their

00:50:50.900 --> 00:50:53.280
phones for a certain time uh that's okay but

00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.699
the the sleep thing really blew my mind that's

00:50:55.699 --> 00:50:59.940
super weird and then it was an asian youth championship

00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:02.440
that was supposed to be held in my city and there

00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:06.480
was a large team going for that and they made

00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:11.219
i was i was training speed They sent me and all

00:51:11.219 --> 00:51:15.360
the other athletes as well to a rock climbing

00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:19.500
place. They sent us to an outdoor crag to train

00:51:19.500 --> 00:51:22.719
for indoor climbing. And I don't know how that

00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:25.380
makes any sense. They sent me as a speed climber

00:51:25.380 --> 00:51:30.679
there. Oh, wow. They built a speed wall. I helped

00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:34.739
set the whole thing up. But for them, it was

00:51:34.739 --> 00:51:37.000
like we have to train together as a team. But

00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:38.900
it would just be so much better if I just stayed

00:51:38.900 --> 00:51:42.300
back and trained and I got more reps in for those

00:51:42.300 --> 00:51:45.860
few days instead of going and climbing on rock,

00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:50.980
which I don't think helps or translates to comp

00:51:50.980 --> 00:51:53.079
climbing as much these days. But yeah, things

00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:55.519
like this that we don't have control over. And

00:51:55.519 --> 00:51:58.179
I don't know why these decisions are made without

00:51:58.179 --> 00:52:03.460
an athlete talking about it or being involved.

00:52:03.780 --> 00:52:06.699
No, he's right. It's like... it's sort of like

00:52:06.699 --> 00:52:09.219
once they're in the position of a coach it's

00:52:09.219 --> 00:52:11.500
kind of like they expect you to unconditionally

00:52:11.500 --> 00:52:15.420
listen whereas i think it should be more of heavily

00:52:15.420 --> 00:52:18.199
based on feedback especially in a sport where

00:52:18.199 --> 00:52:23.500
the individual input matters so much and so they

00:52:23.500 --> 00:52:25.280
need to be listening to you figuring out what

00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:28.900
works for you and not just blindly applying some

00:52:28.900 --> 00:52:32.239
kind of training plan which usually is unfortunately

00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:34.920
not even a good training plan especially for

00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:37.320
you vishak you started climbing and training

00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:40.300
at an older age um do you feel like you've kind

00:52:40.300 --> 00:52:43.340
of missed out at all or that you have like fewer

00:52:43.340 --> 00:52:46.900
years to compete i used to feel like that all

00:52:46.900 --> 00:52:49.480
the time i used to feel like if i just started

00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:52.059
earlier oh i would have been like so much better

00:52:52.059 --> 00:52:56.260
these guys have so much more experience but i

00:52:56.260 --> 00:52:58.559
think i've started to change the way i look at

00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:01.639
all of these things i don't think it makes sense

00:53:01.639 --> 00:53:06.639
to dwell on what could have been and in a way

00:53:06.639 --> 00:53:11.440
i did escape some of the like he said some of

00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:14.019
the national youth training camps and all that

00:53:14.019 --> 00:53:16.760
which i think honestly did more harm than good

00:53:16.760 --> 00:53:20.940
yeah geez and in india it is pretty hard i find

00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:24.280
to break into the top level if you weren't a

00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:29.079
top junior it's what has helped me a lot i think

00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:31.780
is just being persistent really a lot of people

00:53:32.380 --> 00:53:34.679
I don't know, compete for a year or two and they

00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:37.039
have bad results. And they're just kind of like,

00:53:37.179 --> 00:53:41.260
oh, it's over for me. I'm not instantly good

00:53:41.260 --> 00:53:44.480
at this. But I think there's a lot you can learn

00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:48.519
from just having another go at it. And you never

00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:51.900
know when things are going to change. Because

00:53:51.900 --> 00:53:54.000
sometimes it's not even like there's a reason

00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:57.179
that it changes. It's just that, I don't know,

00:53:57.199 --> 00:53:58.860
maybe your third year or fourth year competing,

00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:02.019
you just start to feel... like you belong there

00:54:02.019 --> 00:54:05.360
like things are just going well and there doesn't

00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:08.000
really have to be a tangible reason for it but

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:10.519
i think so many people just want to and i've

00:54:10.519 --> 00:54:12.699
heard this from like many competitors and close

00:54:12.699 --> 00:54:14.699
friends that i don't want to compete unless i

00:54:14.699 --> 00:54:17.639
can win which doesn't make sense to me because

00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:20.820
i think you do have to there's a lot you can

00:54:20.820 --> 00:54:24.719
learn in losing even at a national level or a

00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:27.039
zonal level yeah honestly i think you learn more

00:54:27.039 --> 00:54:29.880
when you lose rather than you when you win Because

00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:32.760
when you win, you've already kind of learned

00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:35.780
the most from it. But when you lose, you have

00:54:35.780 --> 00:54:39.099
so much more to learn, which is the exciting

00:54:39.099 --> 00:54:42.079
part, learning, growing, progressing. I'm not

00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:44.400
saying it's easy to lose. I feel like if you're

00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:48.260
a competitive person, it's like the worst. I

00:54:48.260 --> 00:54:50.159
feel like a lot of those moments for me are like

00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:54.480
so bad, like rock bottom. But I think just being

00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:57.800
able to come back from that. it leaves you feeling

00:54:57.800 --> 00:54:59.820
really good at the end. Like a few years later,

00:54:59.920 --> 00:55:02.719
if you look back on those moments, and then I

00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:05.500
was able to pick myself up from that, it adds

00:55:05.500 --> 00:55:09.000
a lot of confidence going forward. And Bharat,

00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:12.059
for you, I guess you are the older one and you've

00:55:12.059 --> 00:55:14.260
been competing for a longer time. Do you feel

00:55:14.260 --> 00:55:18.079
like the clock is ticking for you to, I don't

00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:23.969
know, make more moves? I do feel that way. Now

00:55:23.969 --> 00:55:26.809
that I am older, I need to find ways to make

00:55:26.809 --> 00:55:31.829
money to sustain long term. And I know that I

00:55:31.829 --> 00:55:36.409
can't keep competing forever. And it feels like

00:55:36.409 --> 00:55:39.550
my time is limited because of that, but not because

00:55:39.550 --> 00:55:45.269
of my physical potential. I started making climbing

00:55:45.269 --> 00:55:49.690
holds and climbing shoes to help with that. We

00:55:49.690 --> 00:55:51.449
haven't started selling yet, but that's what

00:55:51.449 --> 00:55:57.219
I want to do. And now, because I started working

00:55:57.219 --> 00:55:59.659
on that, my mind is in two places, whether I

00:55:59.659 --> 00:56:04.500
should stop competing and work more on this,

00:56:04.619 --> 00:56:06.079
because then it's going to progress way faster.

00:56:06.219 --> 00:56:08.440
Because this year, I didn't do any work on that.

00:56:08.500 --> 00:56:15.239
I was just prepping for the Asian Games, which

00:56:15.239 --> 00:56:19.059
I didn't end up going. I'm not going for it anyway.

00:56:19.380 --> 00:56:23.550
But it does feel like... Time is ticking for

00:56:23.550 --> 00:56:29.090
sure. I might, I was considering maybe stop to

00:56:29.090 --> 00:56:31.769
stop competing for like a year or two and just

00:56:31.769 --> 00:56:35.789
focus on maybe making money and growing the sport

00:56:35.789 --> 00:56:39.550
in India and then coming back to competing. Cause

00:56:39.550 --> 00:56:42.469
there are a few things that is hard for me to

00:56:42.469 --> 00:56:44.570
progress really quickly. Like I think my fingers

00:56:44.570 --> 00:56:47.230
are really weak and it takes a long time to get

00:56:47.230 --> 00:56:51.630
stronger fingers. So a strategy that I've been.

00:56:51.929 --> 00:56:55.590
thinking of is not competing for a while but

00:56:55.590 --> 00:56:58.289
just working on like my fitness and all the things

00:56:58.289 --> 00:57:01.090
i could like it get stronger and then coming

00:57:01.090 --> 00:57:06.929
back but right now this life that i have is like

00:57:06.929 --> 00:57:09.449
so exciting where i get to travel and train and

00:57:09.449 --> 00:57:11.030
climb with strong people and that's really what

00:57:11.030 --> 00:57:14.369
i want some right now the final decision that

00:57:14.369 --> 00:57:16.769
i've made is to just just keep going just keep

00:57:16.769 --> 00:57:20.980
climbing uh for as long as i can I think he says

00:57:20.980 --> 00:57:25.340
this like every year. Yeah, every year pretty

00:57:25.340 --> 00:57:27.639
much. He's like, I think next year is the year

00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:30.579
where I retire. I've been hearing this for a

00:57:30.579 --> 00:57:33.840
long time. I was also thinking just about in

00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:38.059
terms of like aging as an athlete and maybe having

00:57:38.059 --> 00:57:40.360
less fitness. Like, is that something you're

00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:46.190
concerned about? I actually think that so. It's

00:57:46.190 --> 00:57:48.849
been a trend recently that the top climbers have

00:57:48.849 --> 00:57:53.090
been young, even teenagers. Everyone's below,

00:57:53.210 --> 00:57:56.570
like most people are below like 23, 24. Yeah.

00:57:56.650 --> 00:58:00.710
But in my opinion, yeah. But in my opinion, I

00:58:00.710 --> 00:58:03.289
think climbing is like fundamentally a skill

00:58:03.289 --> 00:58:06.849
-based sport. So you learn a lot and you're only

00:58:06.849 --> 00:58:09.050
getting better at it. And I think the reason

00:58:09.050 --> 00:58:11.389
that the young athletes are doing so well right

00:58:11.389 --> 00:58:13.909
now is because of the style change. That was

00:58:13.909 --> 00:58:16.449
really drastic. And I think that was hard for

00:58:16.449 --> 00:58:20.769
a lot of the older guys. But I think when these

00:58:20.769 --> 00:58:23.610
guys get old, or you're already starting to see

00:58:23.610 --> 00:58:27.090
a few people getting older, I think they're still

00:58:27.090 --> 00:58:30.449
going to perform. And I think that the age for

00:58:30.449 --> 00:58:33.889
peak competitiveness is going to increase quite

00:58:33.889 --> 00:58:38.550
a bit. Because we also now have climbers who

00:58:38.550 --> 00:58:41.130
are able to be full -time athletes. And that's

00:58:41.130 --> 00:58:44.710
so important. It's not a side hustle or it's

00:58:44.710 --> 00:58:47.550
not just something you do as a hobby. But you're

00:58:47.550 --> 00:58:49.389
able to actually make a living out of it. So

00:58:49.389 --> 00:58:53.170
you're able to prioritize your recovery and actually

00:58:53.170 --> 00:58:56.650
like prolong your career. So I'm not really worried

00:58:56.650 --> 00:58:59.510
about the aging aspect at all. Sports science

00:58:59.510 --> 00:59:03.070
itself has gone so far in the past few years.

00:59:03.269 --> 00:59:07.230
Like all sports, the age is going up. Like LeBron

00:59:07.230 --> 00:59:12.639
is pretty old and he's still going at it. football,

00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:16.199
basketball, like all sports, older athletes are

00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:19.179
doing better. Yeah, I do kind of wonder like

00:59:19.179 --> 00:59:23.280
maybe the style change had a lot to do with younger

00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:25.920
athletes being better at the competition climbing

00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:30.500
style for now. And it seems like back in the

00:59:30.500 --> 00:59:32.739
day, I actually didn't start watching competitions

00:59:32.739 --> 00:59:35.460
until maybe like a few years ago, but it seems

00:59:35.460 --> 00:59:38.579
like back in the day, climbers were less well

00:59:38.579 --> 00:59:41.360
-rounded. It seemed to be all more like strength.

00:59:42.030 --> 00:59:44.849
strength based and now they're kind of expected

00:59:44.849 --> 00:59:47.150
to be able to do everything with no weaknesses

00:59:47.150 --> 00:59:49.769
so maybe they will be able to have more longevity

00:59:49.769 --> 00:59:52.469
in their climbing careers like you think people

00:59:52.469 --> 00:59:56.769
like serato can keep climbing until maybe like

00:59:56.769 --> 01:00:00.849
the 30s late 30s maybe easily i think easily

01:00:00.849 --> 01:00:03.590
i think you're already seeing it in lead and

01:00:03.590 --> 01:00:06.449
people say it's because bouldering is more of

01:00:06.449 --> 01:00:09.309
an explosive sport that you can't but i don't

01:00:09.309 --> 01:00:12.010
agree with that at all because like in lead I

01:00:12.010 --> 01:00:14.909
think I'm not exactly how sure he is but Jakob

01:00:14.909 --> 01:00:18.769
Schubert is pretty old and he's at like he's

01:00:18.769 --> 01:00:21.349
still at the top he's still winning medals it's

01:00:21.349 --> 01:00:24.590
insane and I think that's gonna happen in boulder

01:00:24.590 --> 01:00:27.849
as well so you don't think it's like a lead only

01:00:27.849 --> 01:00:30.510
thing no because it does seem like a lot of the

01:00:30.510 --> 01:00:33.630
older at like boulder athletes are retiring into

01:00:33.630 --> 01:00:36.219
lead climbing instead I think that's because,

01:00:36.340 --> 01:00:39.019
again, because of the style change. And I think

01:00:39.019 --> 01:00:41.139
lead is something that's familiar. It's what

01:00:41.139 --> 01:00:43.699
it always used to be. But a lot of them don't

01:00:43.699 --> 01:00:45.960
necessarily like what bouldering has turned into,

01:00:46.139 --> 01:00:50.579
the new school parkour style stuff. And I think

01:00:50.579 --> 01:00:53.460
lead, for the most part, is still close to what

01:00:53.460 --> 01:00:55.760
it used to be. And so then how do you guys feel

01:00:55.760 --> 01:01:00.820
about the style, the parkour boulder style? I

01:01:00.820 --> 01:01:04.949
like it. I like it. I've always liked it. I think

01:01:04.949 --> 01:01:09.170
it's climbing. It doesn't necessarily have to

01:01:09.170 --> 01:01:12.110
be rock climbing. I think it is different from

01:01:12.110 --> 01:01:16.130
that. But we are seeing a lot more coordination

01:01:16.130 --> 01:01:19.469
on rock these days. Like right before this, I

01:01:19.469 --> 01:01:23.969
did see a video of someone do like a paddle into

01:01:23.969 --> 01:01:29.610
like a foot plant on rock. Really? Yeah. And

01:01:29.610 --> 01:01:33.750
I think because the style wasn't this... common

01:01:33.750 --> 01:01:37.110
like this style of climbing people didn't see

01:01:37.110 --> 01:01:39.570
outdoor boulders in this way but i think you're

01:01:39.570 --> 01:01:41.349
going to start seeing a lot more outdoor boulders

01:01:41.349 --> 01:01:45.710
with complex coordination and stuff i don't think

01:01:45.710 --> 01:01:47.090
it's going to be the norm i don't think it's

01:01:47.090 --> 01:01:48.469
going to be the only type of outdoor climbing

01:01:48.469 --> 01:01:50.670
obviously but you're definitely going to see

01:01:50.670 --> 01:01:52.590
a lot more because athletes are getting better

01:01:52.590 --> 01:01:57.010
at it i think we do need to think about how uh

01:01:57.010 --> 01:02:00.809
climbing as a product appeals to viewers and

01:02:00.809 --> 01:02:04.000
i think Not necessarily pure climbing viewers.

01:02:04.300 --> 01:02:06.860
They'll watch anything. But I think people who

01:02:06.860 --> 01:02:11.059
aren't so into climbing yet and what is more

01:02:11.059 --> 01:02:13.860
entertaining for them is always going to be complex

01:02:13.860 --> 01:02:16.599
moves with athletes giving more attempts and

01:02:16.599 --> 01:02:18.920
figuring stuff out. I think that's what people

01:02:18.920 --> 01:02:22.139
like to watch. It's definitely great to have

01:02:22.139 --> 01:02:25.099
one crimpy boulder or one power boulder in a

01:02:25.099 --> 01:02:27.940
round where athletes are only giving two or three

01:02:27.940 --> 01:02:31.719
attempts. But I think if it's mostly that, people

01:02:31.719 --> 01:02:34.699
do struggle to watch it a bit more yeah just

01:02:34.699 --> 01:02:38.760
sitting on the mats resting uh once in a while

01:02:38.760 --> 01:02:42.800
it's fine it's good because you know it doesn't

01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:46.159
happen often you get to see their emotions and

01:02:46.159 --> 01:02:48.699
their breathing and wonder what they're going

01:02:48.699 --> 01:02:51.239
through but if it's going to be most boulders

01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:53.219
where they just sit on the mats for like a minute

01:02:53.219 --> 01:02:56.099
two minutes it's not good for the viewer Yeah.

01:02:56.159 --> 01:03:00.300
So I guess moving on into what you guys do personally,

01:03:00.420 --> 01:03:03.280
I know you mentioned that you were making shoes

01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:06.039
and yeah, it's like difficult to balance training

01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:10.719
and also having to, you know, exist and make

01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:14.699
money to continue living. This is the first time

01:03:14.699 --> 01:03:16.880
I've heard of any athletes making shoes though.

01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:19.860
So like, what is that process like and how do

01:03:19.860 --> 01:03:22.599
you do it? Like, I guess as an individual versus

01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:26.579
a climbing company. Maybe like two years ago,

01:03:26.760 --> 01:03:30.260
the owner of the climbing gym I climb at approached

01:03:30.260 --> 01:03:34.219
me and he said that he's working on making climbing

01:03:34.219 --> 01:03:40.800
holds and it's hard as an Indian to like get

01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:42.820
climbing holds from outside. Climbing holds are

01:03:42.820 --> 01:03:46.800
already so expensive and then you like slap import

01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:51.079
tax over that and it could go up 50 % sometimes.

01:03:52.940 --> 01:03:56.179
And in India, the cost of living is so less and

01:03:56.179 --> 01:03:58.820
it's a very price sensitive market. So people

01:03:58.820 --> 01:04:01.019
don't really want to spend much. And that's a

01:04:01.019 --> 01:04:03.460
big reason why people don't want to open climbing

01:04:03.460 --> 01:04:06.539
gyms because they have to get so many more climbing

01:04:06.539 --> 01:04:11.000
holes and so expensive. So like the climbing

01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:14.840
gym that I climb at, Equilibrium, we wanted to

01:04:14.840 --> 01:04:17.679
make our own climbing holes for ourselves and

01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:22.570
also in the future self. We thought that a big

01:04:22.570 --> 01:04:26.090
barrier to entry was this cost of climbing holes.

01:04:26.130 --> 01:04:28.530
So we wanted to focus on making really good quality,

01:04:28.670 --> 01:04:32.389
cheap climbing holes. So that's how it started.

01:04:33.030 --> 01:04:35.670
I just started as a shaper initially, and then

01:04:35.670 --> 01:04:39.329
I got more into the process of making the holes

01:04:39.329 --> 01:04:44.389
and everything. Right now, there is a gym back

01:04:44.389 --> 01:04:48.969
home where I think 80 % or 90 % of the macros

01:04:48.969 --> 01:04:51.900
are mine. Like my shapes or our shapes, like

01:04:51.900 --> 01:04:57.159
the made in India. And just a lot of, we haven't

01:04:57.159 --> 01:05:00.380
figured out how to make PU jibs yet. Like we

01:05:00.380 --> 01:05:03.260
haven't got the material, but like we're doing

01:05:03.260 --> 01:05:06.840
a lot of work with FRP. So that's how that started.

01:05:07.039 --> 01:05:08.739
And then once that started, we also thought,

01:05:08.860 --> 01:05:11.760
okay, let's do all things climbing. Let's make

01:05:11.760 --> 01:05:14.320
like chalk bag. Let's make climbing shoes. Because

01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:16.340
climbing shoes are also really difficult to import.

01:05:16.739 --> 01:05:22.150
Because again, you slap like 50%. over 200 euros

01:05:22.150 --> 01:05:25.530
and it's like almost 300 euros and oh my god

01:05:25.530 --> 01:05:28.690
it becomes so expensive sometimes it's double

01:05:28.690 --> 01:05:32.929
oh my gosh sometimes it does go and i don't understand

01:05:32.929 --> 01:05:38.050
when and how um the customs can change so right

01:05:38.050 --> 01:05:39.829
now what i'm doing is i'm just making rental

01:05:39.829 --> 01:05:43.590
shoes for the gym and we're doing a lot of r

01:05:43.590 --> 01:05:46.949
d and it works really well because we we test

01:05:46.949 --> 01:05:50.360
it on the rental shoes and the shoes like are

01:05:50.360 --> 01:05:54.179
being used constantly for like hours in a day

01:05:54.179 --> 01:05:57.820
so we get like feedback really fast uh but soon

01:05:57.820 --> 01:06:00.760
i'll be i'll be putting out maybe an inter intermediate

01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:05.219
pair um and then like a pro pair maybe sometime

01:06:05.219 --> 01:06:09.599
next year and i was actually considering the

01:06:09.599 --> 01:06:14.500
rental shoe uh was pretty good pretty soft that

01:06:14.500 --> 01:06:18.159
i was considering competing in nationals with

01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:21.639
that shoe wow and just like slap better rubber

01:06:21.639 --> 01:06:24.039
on it but the form factor is like pretty decent

01:06:24.039 --> 01:06:28.300
um i didn't end up doing it uh but i was thinking

01:06:28.300 --> 01:06:31.539
about it because it was too high stakes yeah

01:06:31.539 --> 01:06:34.739
too high stakes okay but for smearing for smearing

01:06:34.739 --> 01:06:38.960
is good for like regular gym use it's good but

01:06:38.960 --> 01:06:41.360
the main goal the main mission is to grow climbing

01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:44.920
in india and that's why we want to get everything

01:06:45.789 --> 01:06:50.050
in that climbing ecosystem to be mostly made

01:06:50.050 --> 01:06:54.769
in India. So it's more affordable by Indians.

01:06:55.010 --> 01:06:57.309
Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, if a regular

01:06:57.309 --> 01:06:59.250
shoe could be double the price, that would be,

01:06:59.250 --> 01:07:04.010
yeah, a crazy cost of air. Are you able to like

01:07:04.010 --> 01:07:07.269
shape shoes perfectly for your own feet? Cause

01:07:07.269 --> 01:07:12.269
that would be my dream. Not really. There's a

01:07:12.269 --> 01:07:14.710
lot of like, I don't think I've, understood the

01:07:14.710 --> 01:07:17.030
science behind it really well like we're not

01:07:17.030 --> 01:07:21.050
doing like 3d scans and stuff we're using like

01:07:21.050 --> 01:07:24.570
existing lasts like the the mold of the shoe

01:07:24.570 --> 01:07:27.449
and we're just making a few tweaks and then we

01:07:27.449 --> 01:07:31.190
make a pair and then i try it on and i've tried

01:07:31.190 --> 01:07:36.070
to do um something from like a 3d scan but that

01:07:36.070 --> 01:07:38.150
didn't actually work out that well like i don't

01:07:38.150 --> 01:07:41.849
think it's should be based on my foot because

01:07:42.460 --> 01:07:44.739
the drago i use right now i don't think it's

01:07:44.739 --> 01:07:47.579
good for my foot uh health or it's based on like

01:07:47.579 --> 01:07:52.219
my shoe my foot like shape i think what's more

01:07:52.219 --> 01:07:57.659
important um is the shoe itself and the end shape

01:07:57.659 --> 01:08:00.460
of the shoe because sometimes um if it's like

01:08:00.460 --> 01:08:02.480
super asymmetric you can like swap feet really

01:08:02.480 --> 01:08:05.900
easily or different shoes are good for different

01:08:05.900 --> 01:08:09.019
things i don't think it's about the foot i think

01:08:09.019 --> 01:08:11.780
for foot health it's about the foot But for performance,

01:08:11.980 --> 01:08:14.739
it's more about the shoe. Have you also played

01:08:14.739 --> 01:08:17.539
around at all with like that new fancy rubber

01:08:17.539 --> 01:08:21.039
that they're talking about that is made of F1

01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:24.399
tires or whatever? Yeah. So last time I was here

01:08:24.399 --> 01:08:28.020
in Tokyo, I actually went to the place where

01:08:28.020 --> 01:08:30.720
they make it, like they resole it. I spoke to

01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:37.520
the guy, Rotom Shoes, and I took back a few of

01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:41.750
those tires, like one tire. uh in each different

01:08:41.750 --> 01:08:43.529
material they have like three or four different

01:08:43.529 --> 01:08:46.270
uh levels and i brought it back and i tried it

01:08:46.270 --> 01:08:50.369
and yes it is it is really sticky um but i don't

01:08:50.369 --> 01:08:54.350
think it's great for tiny edges because the softer

01:08:54.350 --> 01:08:58.970
it gets the worse it gets for edging and um it's

01:08:58.970 --> 01:09:01.729
good it's really good really sticky and it performs

01:09:01.729 --> 01:09:04.550
like way better when it's hot so like if you

01:09:04.550 --> 01:09:07.449
rub it together and gets a little like hot um

01:09:07.449 --> 01:09:09.329
it does perform better but that's most climbing

01:09:09.329 --> 01:09:13.680
shoes It is good. I have tried it out, but I

01:09:13.680 --> 01:09:16.760
still think it defeats the purpose because we're

01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:20.399
trying to do it in India for Indians and get

01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:22.539
everything sourced from India. Then if you have

01:09:22.539 --> 01:09:26.140
to import this rubber, then it gets expensive

01:09:26.140 --> 01:09:28.619
again. Well, you could just make a custom pair

01:09:28.619 --> 01:09:31.159
for yourself. I do. I do have a custom pair for

01:09:31.159 --> 01:09:34.199
myself. Wow. Okay. Yeah, I guess that's kind

01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:37.739
of your cheat. So then, Vishak, for you, you

01:09:37.739 --> 01:09:42.239
mostly do setting on the side? Yeah, so I'm the

01:09:42.239 --> 01:09:44.920
head route setter for this gym that just opened.

01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:48.939
It's called Langur Climbing. And I think the

01:09:48.939 --> 01:09:51.500
mission is slightly different. Like, obviously,

01:09:51.600 --> 01:09:55.779
everybody wants commercial success. But what

01:09:55.779 --> 01:09:58.500
sold me on this place is it's meant to be mainly

01:09:58.500 --> 01:10:02.279
for athletes. And that's not something we've

01:10:02.279 --> 01:10:07.000
ever really done in India. It's actually a lot

01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:11.670
of times. I think athletes are not given priority

01:10:11.670 --> 01:10:14.869
in these things. For example, there's a competition

01:10:14.869 --> 01:10:17.170
this weekend and there have been a lot of competitions

01:10:17.170 --> 01:10:20.869
in the recent past which have like an intermediate

01:10:20.869 --> 01:10:24.390
and an amateur category. But like if you've competed

01:10:24.390 --> 01:10:26.750
at the national level, you're actually not allowed

01:10:26.750 --> 01:10:31.310
to compete. So there's not that much exposure

01:10:31.310 --> 01:10:35.550
for national athletes to compete. So I'm mainly

01:10:35.550 --> 01:10:38.680
setting. comp style routes really hard routes

01:10:38.680 --> 01:10:42.119
I'm given a lot of freedom not to worry about

01:10:42.119 --> 01:10:47.220
what customers say or the grade so I'm and I

01:10:47.220 --> 01:10:49.560
have gotten pretty carried away with it at the

01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:53.260
moment so it's it's just really movement oriented

01:10:53.260 --> 01:10:56.859
complex movements I mean there's a lot of stuff

01:10:56.859 --> 01:11:00.619
like basic power boulders as well but I think

01:11:00.619 --> 01:11:04.600
I'm trying to maybe for the next generation of

01:11:04.600 --> 01:11:06.880
competition climbers and trying to make a space

01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:10.939
that's that really helps them because i don't

01:11:10.939 --> 01:11:14.039
think we had that space when we were growing

01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:16.840
up yeah it sounds like you're both really growing

01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:18.939
the community in india so that's good to hear

01:11:18.939 --> 01:11:23.140
um but also setting I guess like when I think

01:11:23.140 --> 01:11:26.140
about setting, it's like quite exhausting, even

01:11:26.140 --> 01:11:27.939
just like lugging the holds up there and then

01:11:27.939 --> 01:11:30.220
having to forerun and all that. It definitely

01:11:30.220 --> 01:11:32.760
doesn't like count as a rest day. So how do you

01:11:32.760 --> 01:11:36.100
balance it with training? I actually do a session

01:11:36.100 --> 01:11:38.920
before the setting. So like I have a blank wall

01:11:38.920 --> 01:11:42.840
and sometimes I just put up holds for myself.

01:11:43.020 --> 01:11:45.300
Like I've just started doing this and I just

01:11:45.300 --> 01:11:47.560
work on whatever weaknesses I want to work on.

01:11:48.359 --> 01:11:50.720
which is it's pretty cool because you don't often

01:11:50.720 --> 01:11:53.319
get like a blank wall and you can just put purely

01:11:53.319 --> 01:11:56.939
for yourself and then we start setting but from

01:11:56.939 --> 01:11:59.420
a physical point of view i still have to work

01:11:59.420 --> 01:12:03.659
stuff out it's really taking a toll like the

01:12:03.659 --> 01:12:06.880
forerunning more than anything i find exhausting

01:12:06.880 --> 01:12:10.600
because once you've climbed and then you've set

01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:14.140
for like three four hours and then you test again

01:12:14.859 --> 01:12:17.199
You shouldn't be climbing at that point. You

01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:19.199
definitely shouldn't be climbing anything hard.

01:12:20.359 --> 01:12:23.920
And actually, the competition that I'd mentioned

01:12:23.920 --> 01:12:27.680
earlier, the National Cup, while I was training

01:12:27.680 --> 01:12:30.460
for that, the week before that, I was setting

01:12:30.460 --> 01:12:32.859
boulders for these guys for the opening of the

01:12:32.859 --> 01:12:36.039
gym. And while I was doing that, I was just in

01:12:36.039 --> 01:12:38.600
my head, I was thinking, like, what am I doing?

01:12:38.720 --> 01:12:42.750
This is such a mess because... And I'll definitely

01:12:42.750 --> 01:12:44.989
won't do that again, even though it worked. But

01:12:44.989 --> 01:12:48.470
it's just, it takes so much of a physical and

01:12:48.470 --> 01:12:51.310
mental toll. It's a little easier to set, again,

01:12:51.449 --> 01:12:54.850
a normal set of boulders because it's not as

01:12:54.850 --> 01:12:59.229
high stakes. But I think people kind of overlook

01:12:59.229 --> 01:13:01.750
the physical side of just like putting the gun,

01:13:01.890 --> 01:13:05.770
just putting holes on the wall. That's a lot

01:13:05.770 --> 01:13:08.090
of work, actually, when you do it that many times.

01:13:08.390 --> 01:13:12.109
Okay, well then, I guess... Thinking ahead, what

01:13:12.109 --> 01:13:15.810
are your goals for the rest of the year or for

01:13:15.810 --> 01:13:20.029
next year? We're both going for the Asia Cup

01:13:20.029 --> 01:13:24.289
that is going to be the end of October. Okay.

01:13:25.029 --> 01:13:29.510
I'm pretty keen on making finals. I have made

01:13:29.510 --> 01:13:35.729
an Asia Cup finals before. And I do think I'm

01:13:35.729 --> 01:13:39.750
in pretty good form right now. I do think it

01:13:39.750 --> 01:13:42.210
is possible. I think I'm the strongest I've ever

01:13:42.210 --> 01:13:45.729
been. And I'm climbing pretty decently as well.

01:13:46.369 --> 01:13:49.670
So a good goal of mine would be make finals.

01:13:50.210 --> 01:13:54.050
And next year, I want to compete in more of the

01:13:54.050 --> 01:13:56.609
World Cups. I think the most I've done in a season

01:13:56.609 --> 01:14:00.489
is three out of six. I want to do at least five.

01:14:01.529 --> 01:14:04.890
It's kind of hard to get a visa to come to Salt

01:14:04.890 --> 01:14:07.449
Lake City. But generally, as an Indian, it's

01:14:07.449 --> 01:14:10.119
hard to get a visa. It's one of the weakest passports.

01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:13.260
Oh, really? I didn't know that. It's terrible.

01:14:13.359 --> 01:14:15.920
You need a visa for everywhere. And it's not

01:14:15.920 --> 01:14:18.500
just does it take a lot of your time and documents

01:14:18.500 --> 01:14:21.380
and everything. It's a lot of money. Yeah. So

01:14:21.380 --> 01:14:25.060
like the Korean visa I applied for would be like,

01:14:25.199 --> 01:14:28.399
I don't know. If you count everything that I

01:14:28.399 --> 01:14:31.739
spent getting that done, it's like $100. And

01:14:31.739 --> 01:14:34.600
for an Indian, $100 is a lot of money. Right,

01:14:34.619 --> 01:14:37.960
yeah. Because cost of living could be like...

01:14:38.650 --> 01:14:43.069
less than uh half maybe maybe like a tenth of

01:14:43.069 --> 01:14:46.069
the price of being in the us like sometimes the

01:14:46.069 --> 01:14:50.770
food is like um 10 of what a meal would cost

01:14:50.770 --> 01:14:54.109
that anyway but yeah next year i want to compete

01:14:54.109 --> 01:14:58.489
in more world cups and um hopefully get a better

01:14:58.489 --> 01:15:02.949
rank last year i did three world cups and my

01:15:02.949 --> 01:15:06.369
rank was 69th which i think was pretty good but

01:15:06.369 --> 01:15:09.949
uh it's a pretty nice knowing that I didn't do

01:15:09.949 --> 01:15:15.750
all of the comps. Oh, yeah, for sure. And I want

01:15:15.750 --> 01:15:20.770
to make semis, but that's not really a target.

01:15:20.869 --> 01:15:24.050
I just want to compete and do better. If it happens,

01:15:24.130 --> 01:15:26.689
it happens. That would be cool. I think it will

01:15:26.689 --> 01:15:29.890
happen. I think for me, again, this Asia Cup,

01:15:30.069 --> 01:15:33.630
it's finally about competing where I'm in a good

01:15:33.630 --> 01:15:37.170
place physically. Actually, I'm just glad not

01:15:37.170 --> 01:15:39.750
to have any injuries. I think my finger injuries

01:15:39.750 --> 01:15:42.909
have finally sorted themselves out. Like last

01:15:42.909 --> 01:15:45.930
time I was in Prague and my finger was so bad.

01:15:46.090 --> 01:15:48.449
It was like, I don't think I should be climbing,

01:15:48.529 --> 01:15:51.590
but I've spent so much money and I'm here. I

01:15:51.590 --> 01:15:53.930
really don't have a choice. I just have to get

01:15:53.930 --> 01:15:57.409
on the mats. And you're never going to get anywhere

01:15:57.409 --> 01:16:00.770
with feeling like that. But I have improved a

01:16:00.770 --> 01:16:04.979
lot and I'm excited to see. what it feels like

01:16:04.979 --> 01:16:07.640
on an international stage now that I'm climbing

01:16:07.640 --> 01:16:12.319
like this I don't really have expectations but

01:16:12.319 --> 01:16:15.140
I wouldn't say I have like a defined goal like

01:16:15.140 --> 01:16:20.119
finals and next year I want to do like he said

01:16:20.119 --> 01:16:22.960
a lot of world cups in succession because you

01:16:22.960 --> 01:16:26.460
get into this rhythm that I feel like if it's

01:16:26.460 --> 01:16:28.520
coming well it's like you're going to improve

01:16:28.520 --> 01:16:32.359
every comp and that I had that feeling for one

01:16:32.359 --> 01:16:34.970
comp And after Innsbruck, I was like, oh, no,

01:16:35.029 --> 01:16:38.550
it's done now. I just really wanted to do one

01:16:38.550 --> 01:16:42.250
more. But yeah, next year, I just want to string

01:16:42.250 --> 01:16:45.970
a few comps together and see where that goes.

01:16:46.550 --> 01:16:48.149
That's interesting to hear because I've heard

01:16:48.149 --> 01:16:51.649
other people say that like doing a bunch of comps

01:16:51.649 --> 01:16:53.810
back to back or not even back to back, but like

01:16:53.810 --> 01:16:57.810
having comps like spread out, they get like more

01:16:57.810 --> 01:17:00.859
and more tired as the comps go on. kind of like

01:17:00.859 --> 01:17:04.840
yeah it's hard to upkeep um your form that's

01:17:04.840 --> 01:17:07.340
probably because they already have a lot of comp

01:17:07.340 --> 01:17:11.539
experience we don't like we don't get to compete

01:17:11.539 --> 01:17:15.060
as much um asia doesn't have that many competitions

01:17:15.060 --> 01:17:19.859
like europe has a lot of european cups and you're

01:17:19.859 --> 01:17:23.600
like youth cups and but asia some years we don't

01:17:23.600 --> 01:17:27.920
even have an asia cup um for maybe boulder maybe

01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:31.060
it'll only be for lead And in India as well,

01:17:31.079 --> 01:17:34.560
we're not exposed to as many competitions, especially

01:17:34.560 --> 01:17:38.180
the pro athletes. The amateurs and the people

01:17:38.180 --> 01:17:41.220
competing for fun get to actually compete in

01:17:41.220 --> 01:17:46.500
more events than us. So we gain a lot more from

01:17:46.500 --> 01:17:49.640
every experience than these guys that already

01:17:49.640 --> 01:17:52.319
have all the experience. Yeah, makes sense. Okay,

01:17:52.319 --> 01:17:55.869
well then I think let's... get into some of the

01:17:55.869 --> 01:17:58.829
audience questions that came in um the first

01:17:58.829 --> 01:18:04.710
one from 726638296a um what do you wish you knew

01:18:04.710 --> 01:18:07.550
before starting your journey movement is like

01:18:07.550 --> 01:18:13.649
everything not everything like it's not i feel

01:18:13.649 --> 01:18:16.550
like power and strength in a way they come so

01:18:16.550 --> 01:18:19.229
much easier and they're so much easier to train

01:18:19.229 --> 01:18:22.170
but like the little nuances in movement once

01:18:22.170 --> 01:18:25.430
you start looking for them You'll find them and

01:18:25.430 --> 01:18:28.170
then you won't be able to fix them for like months.

01:18:28.449 --> 01:18:31.229
But once you actually start getting around to

01:18:31.229 --> 01:18:34.130
making progress with that stuff, I feel like

01:18:34.130 --> 01:18:37.770
it's a game changer. And I saw this a lot in

01:18:37.770 --> 01:18:40.869
Japan when I saw Sorato a couple of years climbing

01:18:40.869 --> 01:18:44.869
with some other guys. I don't know if you know

01:18:44.869 --> 01:18:48.770
Hiro from Japan. He wears a red shirt. He's known

01:18:48.770 --> 01:18:52.789
for this. I'm not sure. He's a legend. He's a

01:18:52.789 --> 01:18:55.829
legend in Japan. Even amongst the World Cup climbers,

01:18:55.909 --> 01:18:58.350
he can pull on anything. He's stronger than,

01:18:58.390 --> 01:19:03.710
I'd say, almost anybody. But he still doesn't

01:19:03.710 --> 01:19:05.989
have the results that his strength warrants because

01:19:05.989 --> 01:19:09.369
he doesn't move as well on certain comp -style

01:19:09.369 --> 01:19:12.329
boulders and he doesn't execute well. And I think

01:19:12.329 --> 01:19:14.989
those are the things that are really hard to

01:19:14.989 --> 01:19:17.909
learn. But getting stronger, I think it's a simpler

01:19:17.909 --> 01:19:22.619
thing to do. Yeah, I would say for me, It's more

01:19:22.619 --> 01:19:28.079
about having fun and trusting the process, which

01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:30.659
is what I would want to tell my younger self.

01:19:30.760 --> 01:19:34.699
I've only understood it really in the past few

01:19:34.699 --> 01:19:37.159
years, like deeply understood what it means to

01:19:37.159 --> 01:19:39.119
trust the process. I think when I was younger,

01:19:39.180 --> 01:19:42.279
I trusted the process, but I still really, really,

01:19:42.300 --> 01:19:45.220
really look forward to the goal and I wanted

01:19:45.220 --> 01:19:48.619
to win. I would have like a small chat with my

01:19:48.619 --> 01:19:52.720
younger self. be like you got this have fun it's

01:19:52.720 --> 01:19:56.239
not that deep well I guess what do you mean by

01:19:56.239 --> 01:19:58.399
trust the process I guess I always thought that

01:19:58.399 --> 01:20:01.180
meant like you know you're like in a training

01:20:01.180 --> 01:20:03.859
stint and you get worse because you're exhausted

01:20:03.859 --> 01:20:05.720
and then you're just you just feel like you're

01:20:05.720 --> 01:20:09.199
never going to get better again trust that you

01:20:09.199 --> 01:20:12.180
know that you'll be able to figure it out because

01:20:12.180 --> 01:20:14.319
when I was younger there were so many things

01:20:14.319 --> 01:20:18.789
I didn't know and I was always scared about The

01:20:18.789 --> 01:20:21.470
fact that I didn't know so many things and the

01:20:21.470 --> 01:20:25.229
knowledge gap is so big. But now I do know it.

01:20:27.130 --> 01:20:30.050
So I would want to tell myself to just trust

01:20:30.050 --> 01:20:31.750
that you'll know it at some point, like trust

01:20:31.750 --> 01:20:37.090
that you will figure it out. And Vishak, you

01:20:37.090 --> 01:20:39.449
mentioned like movement. I think a lot of people

01:20:39.449 --> 01:20:42.449
use that as like a broad term when you think

01:20:42.449 --> 01:20:46.539
of. learning about movement what's like the main

01:20:46.539 --> 01:20:48.739
thing that comes to mind like is it just dinos

01:20:48.739 --> 01:20:52.619
or is there like more to it no i was thinking

01:20:52.619 --> 01:20:56.760
about it in a very broad context it's about optimizing

01:20:56.760 --> 01:21:01.060
everything to make it as easy as it can be so

01:21:01.060 --> 01:21:03.000
just because you get a move just because you're

01:21:03.000 --> 01:21:04.960
able to hold on to a hold doesn't mean you're

01:21:04.960 --> 01:21:08.180
doing it in the best way possible this is actually

01:21:08.180 --> 01:21:11.020
super hard to do on your own so it really helps

01:21:11.020 --> 01:21:13.000
when we have each other and we're able to see

01:21:13.479 --> 01:21:16.119
like what the other person is doing. And we're

01:21:16.119 --> 01:21:18.699
constantly able to be like, you're not engaging

01:21:18.699 --> 01:21:21.260
your lats enough for this move or you're not

01:21:21.260 --> 01:21:25.060
straight armed enough or on slab. You know, maybe

01:21:25.060 --> 01:21:27.840
you're not placing a foot a certain way. It's

01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:33.880
just like such small things everywhere that once

01:21:33.880 --> 01:21:36.800
you start to focus on all of it, I think you

01:21:36.800 --> 01:21:41.000
can get somewhere. Next question is from Abhinand

01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:44.859
Toby. How do you guys deal with the plateau phase

01:21:44.859 --> 01:21:48.640
or forced rest periods due to an injury? Forced

01:21:48.640 --> 01:21:52.460
rest periods, I usually work on other things.

01:21:53.039 --> 01:21:57.979
In climbing, we're lucky that we can work on

01:21:57.979 --> 01:22:00.420
every single part of our body and everything

01:22:00.420 --> 01:22:04.039
helps. So let's say my finger is tweaky or even

01:22:04.039 --> 01:22:07.159
like my whole arm, I can't use. I can still do

01:22:07.159 --> 01:22:10.710
slab. I can still use the other arm. I think

01:22:10.710 --> 01:22:12.529
it's pretty easy to keep progressing through

01:22:12.529 --> 01:22:17.529
an injury unless it's fingers on like both hands

01:22:17.529 --> 01:22:21.789
there are still ways to do it but long periods

01:22:21.789 --> 01:22:25.069
of climbing is not like if you can't climb for

01:22:25.069 --> 01:22:29.029
like two months properly then it's hard but you

01:22:29.029 --> 01:22:32.210
can always work on other stuff honestly you can

01:22:32.210 --> 01:22:34.949
always work on every part of your body as climbers

01:22:34.949 --> 01:22:37.449
we love to find a way to train no matter what

01:22:37.449 --> 01:22:42.140
happens like I donned my hamstring about a year

01:22:42.140 --> 01:22:45.899
and a half ago and I think I started three days

01:22:45.899 --> 01:22:47.960
later just climbing with one leg and that helped

01:22:47.960 --> 01:22:53.859
a lot so but I did have one like prolonged forced

01:22:53.859 --> 01:22:57.699
rest period because I had a session one time

01:22:57.699 --> 01:23:01.600
and the lights just started flashing in the session

01:23:01.600 --> 01:23:04.699
and then I had like a full -blown epileptic seizure

01:23:04.699 --> 01:23:07.640
and it turns out yeah and it turns out that was

01:23:07.640 --> 01:23:09.960
like They told me the next day there's like tapeworm

01:23:09.960 --> 01:23:14.600
in my brain. And so that was pretty serious.

01:23:14.640 --> 01:23:18.420
Yeah. And they had to, I mean, luckily they were

01:23:18.420 --> 01:23:20.680
able to like, just, it just went away with medication,

01:23:20.739 --> 01:23:23.020
but I had to be really careful for a long time.

01:23:23.800 --> 01:23:27.140
Wow. And that was, that was super hard to deal

01:23:27.140 --> 01:23:29.079
with because everyone was like, don't climb hard,

01:23:29.159 --> 01:23:31.020
don't climb hard. And even I knew it was pretty

01:23:31.020 --> 01:23:34.560
serious and I did have to kind of listen. But

01:23:34.560 --> 01:23:37.560
I think at that point you, you. You have to do

01:23:37.560 --> 01:23:40.020
what little you can, but really try to enjoy

01:23:40.020 --> 01:23:42.520
the other parts of life, which we're not very

01:23:42.520 --> 01:23:47.039
good at as climbers. A lot of the time, I feel

01:23:47.039 --> 01:23:49.800
like if my climbing is not in a good place, I

01:23:49.800 --> 01:23:52.460
struggle to be in a good place. And I'm working

01:23:52.460 --> 01:23:55.199
on it, but I think that's a huge challenge for

01:23:55.199 --> 01:23:57.699
us. How long did you have to be out after that

01:23:57.699 --> 01:24:00.180
happened? I was supposed to be out for like a

01:24:00.180 --> 01:24:02.579
month. They said a month, but I started light

01:24:02.579 --> 01:24:06.000
climbing in like two and a half weeks. I was

01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:08.420
just... Again, I don't really enjoy light climbing

01:24:08.420 --> 01:24:12.420
at all. So that was the problem. Another question

01:24:12.420 --> 01:24:15.420
that this person had asked, it sounds like maybe

01:24:15.420 --> 01:24:19.239
one of you, both of you had like tenosynovitis.

01:24:19.979 --> 01:24:22.899
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they were asking favorite

01:24:22.899 --> 01:24:26.680
but unconventional exercises for that. For me,

01:24:26.680 --> 01:24:31.840
ice and heat helped. This is unconventional because

01:24:31.840 --> 01:24:34.979
like research shows that ice shouldn't really

01:24:34.979 --> 01:24:41.050
be doing much. but yeah I would watch anime while

01:24:41.050 --> 01:24:45.369
having like two bowls one with ice and water

01:24:45.369 --> 01:24:47.189
and then one with like hot water so then I just

01:24:47.189 --> 01:24:50.470
put my hands in and then like every you know

01:24:50.470 --> 01:24:53.850
20 -30 seconds I would switch the bowls and that

01:24:53.850 --> 01:24:57.010
seemed to help a lot because I think with synovitis

01:24:57.010 --> 01:25:01.390
a lot of movement is bad so I my go -to strategy

01:25:01.390 --> 01:25:06.869
with most of my rehab is to do a lot of volume

01:25:06.869 --> 01:25:10.390
with like less intensity but I heard with synovitis

01:25:10.390 --> 01:25:14.189
like if you keep moving it it gets worse um so

01:25:14.189 --> 01:25:17.710
I moved it less I didn't know that I thought

01:25:17.710 --> 01:25:20.390
I was supposed to move it more and that makes

01:25:20.390 --> 01:25:22.770
sense why my fingers hurt so bad right now you

01:25:22.770 --> 01:25:24.909
should be moving it and there's like research

01:25:24.909 --> 01:25:27.189
that says that you shouldn't be moving it it

01:25:27.189 --> 01:25:30.369
gets irritated so I don't know for synovitis

01:25:30.369 --> 01:25:33.590
I've just been I've been doing maybe density

01:25:33.590 --> 01:25:38.130
hangs like four times a week and repeaters like

01:25:38.130 --> 01:25:40.850
another twice a week which is quite a bit of

01:25:40.850 --> 01:25:43.729
finger training i i really didn't do any hangboard

01:25:43.729 --> 01:25:46.329
before this but it's helped a lot i think it

01:25:46.329 --> 01:25:51.430
works it's but also again i feel like it is individual

01:25:51.430 --> 01:25:54.649
you do have to find the amount that's working

01:25:54.649 --> 01:25:57.890
for you and i think with with uh with abinand

01:25:57.890 --> 01:26:03.850
in particular it's hard for him to find his level

01:26:04.470 --> 01:26:07.510
Like he always tries too hard. So if you, you

01:26:07.510 --> 01:26:10.229
know, with the Abrahams, they tell you, you know,

01:26:10.229 --> 01:26:14.609
you can do it easy, maybe like 20%, 30 % of your

01:26:14.609 --> 01:26:18.770
max, but then he will think his 20 % or 30 %

01:26:18.770 --> 01:26:23.270
is actually like way higher or way lower, but

01:26:23.270 --> 01:26:25.810
like he'd pull way more than he should. And I

01:26:25.810 --> 01:26:28.649
think that's a, that's a problem whenever you're

01:26:28.649 --> 01:26:31.609
injured to like finding that balance and knowing

01:26:31.609 --> 01:26:34.399
exactly how much you should be. trying hard or

01:26:34.399 --> 01:26:37.060
not trying hard. Okay. Yeah. Sometimes less is

01:26:37.060 --> 01:26:41.539
more. Okay. Next question. I guess this is probably

01:26:41.539 --> 01:26:46.500
from a sibling from Benita. How do you say your

01:26:46.500 --> 01:26:50.439
last name? Pereira? Pereira. Okay. Pereira. The

01:26:50.439 --> 01:26:52.399
question was, what is your inspiration to keep

01:26:52.399 --> 01:26:56.720
going? My inspiration is actually to grow climbing

01:26:56.720 --> 01:26:59.079
in India. Like I think there are multiple ways

01:26:59.079 --> 01:27:02.060
for me to do it. There's like the top down from

01:27:02.060 --> 01:27:07.449
like an athlete. elite climber approach where

01:27:07.449 --> 01:27:11.390
if I do better the Federation gets more support

01:27:11.390 --> 01:27:14.909
from the government and people maybe I get more

01:27:14.909 --> 01:27:20.310
views and the sport grows that way and also from

01:27:20.310 --> 01:27:23.029
the bottom where like I get more people into

01:27:23.029 --> 01:27:26.149
climbing by climbing shoes climbing holes climbing

01:27:26.149 --> 01:27:28.850
gyms and all of these things so I'm trying to

01:27:28.850 --> 01:27:31.109
like do it from both but basically what keeps

01:27:31.109 --> 01:27:34.850
me going is My love for climbing and I want more

01:27:34.850 --> 01:27:36.970
people to experience that love for climbing.

01:27:37.510 --> 01:27:41.770
So yeah, growing climbing in India. Yeah, I've

01:27:41.770 --> 01:27:44.689
always wanted to be an athlete. And I think I'm

01:27:44.689 --> 01:27:48.609
just really enjoying being an athlete. And I

01:27:48.609 --> 01:27:52.409
want to make that like a fully sustainable lifestyle.

01:27:53.449 --> 01:27:56.170
And that's a big goal for me to just be able

01:27:56.170 --> 01:27:58.430
to climb and live off climbing. I think that's

01:27:58.430 --> 01:28:01.199
the dream. Like he said, to introduce it to more

01:28:01.199 --> 01:28:04.779
people because it's so cool what climbing is

01:28:04.779 --> 01:28:07.359
and it's so cool what so many other climbers

01:28:07.359 --> 01:28:10.380
are doing that I want more people to be able

01:28:10.380 --> 01:28:13.920
to see that and I want the climbers to get more

01:28:13.920 --> 01:28:18.279
appreciation because I feel like in terms of

01:28:18.279 --> 01:28:21.260
pushing human potential, it's getting to a really

01:28:21.260 --> 01:28:27.119
good level. Everyone sees... alex honnold in

01:28:27.119 --> 01:28:29.619
free solo and they're like whoa this is so insane

01:28:29.619 --> 01:28:32.880
which it is it's an amazing feat but i also want

01:28:32.880 --> 01:28:35.920
to be like you should check out like adam andra

01:28:35.920 --> 01:28:39.439
on like silence like and what he put into it

01:28:39.439 --> 01:28:42.979
and just like the moves on that thing and so

01:28:42.979 --> 01:28:45.399
many hard boulders and i've i think the more

01:28:45.399 --> 01:28:48.239
that people can comprehend that the better it

01:28:48.239 --> 01:28:50.699
is for like climbing as a whole yeah i think

01:28:50.699 --> 01:28:54.340
climbing is one of the coolest sports uh it's

01:28:54.340 --> 01:28:56.640
kind of like you're training to be a superhero

01:28:56.640 --> 01:28:59.960
like if you tell a regular person that you can

01:28:59.960 --> 01:29:05.420
hang off eight mm like they'd be like what that's

01:29:05.420 --> 01:29:11.159
like a spider -man you know so i think um showing

01:29:11.159 --> 01:29:14.779
people what the you know their potential is it's

01:29:14.779 --> 01:29:17.260
pretty cool climbing is pretty cool it's very

01:29:17.260 --> 01:29:22.020
addictive um next question from akarsh galat

01:29:22.590 --> 01:29:25.350
uh will we get to see you start a youtube channel

01:29:25.350 --> 01:29:29.229
i have considered it but i feel like it after

01:29:29.229 --> 01:29:35.409
talking to jonathan uh yeah uh it's a lot of

01:29:35.409 --> 01:29:39.489
work yeah we're climbing here together in japan

01:29:39.489 --> 01:29:41.949
and we're climbing like he's climbing one day

01:29:41.949 --> 01:29:44.829
on one day off and his off day he's just editing

01:29:44.829 --> 01:29:47.590
the whole day and i don't think that would be

01:29:47.590 --> 01:29:51.489
good for me to like train and compete long term

01:29:51.869 --> 01:29:54.210
where i have to like constantly be working on

01:29:54.210 --> 01:30:00.170
youtube um but i do want to post more content

01:30:00.170 --> 01:30:04.069
maybe on instagram um i've been having fun with

01:30:04.069 --> 01:30:06.170
like my recent videos where i'm just editing

01:30:06.170 --> 01:30:09.310
uh spending two hours or three hours sometimes

01:30:09.310 --> 01:30:12.510
editing a video it has been fun so i do see myself

01:30:12.510 --> 01:30:15.609
posting more instagram though like vlog style

01:30:15.609 --> 01:30:19.289
format or like one minute or two minute stuff

01:30:20.010 --> 01:30:23.289
We'll see. Also, a lot of other climbers, like

01:30:23.289 --> 01:30:25.689
competitive climbers, have started YouTube channels

01:30:25.689 --> 01:30:29.729
recently. So it's getting like very saturated,

01:30:29.869 --> 01:30:32.970
I guess. The editing is amazing in some of them.

01:30:32.970 --> 01:30:35.170
I don't know where they're getting that. Yeah,

01:30:35.270 --> 01:30:39.029
that's so cool. Like Mejdi's channel and like

01:30:39.029 --> 01:30:42.130
Sam Richard. And like, yeah, it's just like,

01:30:42.229 --> 01:30:44.880
wow. I was like, where do you have the time?

01:30:45.020 --> 01:30:47.439
And it's really good. I really like the videos,

01:30:47.579 --> 01:30:49.680
honestly. And I don't even know where they're

01:30:49.680 --> 01:30:52.020
getting their footage. They're getting really

01:30:52.020 --> 01:30:55.680
good slow -mo shots from the competitions that

01:30:55.680 --> 01:30:58.439
I've never seen during the competitions. It is

01:30:58.439 --> 01:31:01.180
amazing, yeah. Do you feel like, I mean, because

01:31:01.180 --> 01:31:03.380
you're always trying to watch and get more tips,

01:31:03.500 --> 01:31:04.800
do you feel like you've learned a lot from those

01:31:04.800 --> 01:31:08.500
videos as well? So much, I think. Even back in

01:31:08.500 --> 01:31:11.859
the day, I would just... Mainly, I think most

01:31:11.859 --> 01:31:15.079
people watch Magnus. And even from him, there's

01:31:15.079 --> 01:31:20.420
so much to learn. And now I think this insight

01:31:20.420 --> 01:31:23.159
into the comp scene, I really like those videos

01:31:23.159 --> 01:31:24.899
because it's something you can kind of relate

01:31:24.899 --> 01:31:27.619
to. I mean, not exactly because they have a huge

01:31:27.619 --> 01:31:31.640
team and everything looks, well, pretty organized

01:31:31.640 --> 01:31:34.960
and sorted out. But it's still, you can learn

01:31:34.960 --> 01:31:37.500
a lot from those things. Yeah, it's been really

01:31:37.500 --> 01:31:42.739
cool to see. Okay, last question then from Stanzin

01:31:42.739 --> 01:31:48.039
Rostan. This was for Shaq. Was climbing out of

01:31:48.039 --> 01:31:51.039
Jacaranda more thrilling or winning the medals?

01:31:51.319 --> 01:31:54.079
I might need some context here. Jacaranda was

01:31:54.079 --> 01:31:57.319
the name of my house in boarding school. And

01:31:57.319 --> 01:31:59.840
I used to be the guy who had to climb out of

01:31:59.840 --> 01:32:02.399
it whenever we needed to do something illegal

01:32:02.399 --> 01:32:05.520
in the middle of the night or, I don't know,

01:32:05.560 --> 01:32:09.579
have a party or something. Okay. That was without

01:32:09.579 --> 01:32:13.579
getting caught. I mean, it was thrilling in a

01:32:13.579 --> 01:32:17.199
sense of like you get adrenaline. Like you don't

01:32:17.199 --> 01:32:18.880
want to get caught, like you can get into a lot

01:32:18.880 --> 01:32:22.359
of trouble. And it's actually an interesting

01:32:22.359 --> 01:32:25.340
question because I feel like when I was younger,

01:32:25.420 --> 01:32:28.479
I had the same kind of sensations in my body

01:32:28.479 --> 01:32:31.420
when I was on the mats. Like that same adrenaline

01:32:31.420 --> 01:32:35.619
with like so much fear as well mixed into it.

01:32:36.140 --> 01:32:38.439
But I think it's very different as I've gotten

01:32:38.439 --> 01:32:42.199
older. I'm still excited. There's still a lot

01:32:42.199 --> 01:32:44.859
of energy, but I don't feel it. I don't perceive

01:32:44.859 --> 01:32:47.920
it in the same way that there's a fear aspect

01:32:47.920 --> 01:32:50.779
to it. Or I think whenever I find that fear aspect

01:32:50.779 --> 01:32:53.819
rising, I feel like that's not a good thing.

01:32:54.699 --> 01:32:57.899
And I need to. I don't think you can perform.

01:32:58.380 --> 01:33:03.060
There's a level of optimal arousal. And I think

01:33:03.060 --> 01:33:05.710
I'm always trying to find that. So that I don't

01:33:05.710 --> 01:33:10.729
get too excited or get too scared. Like managing

01:33:10.729 --> 01:33:16.050
your emotions and heart rate during a competition.

01:33:16.449 --> 01:33:21.170
I don't think of heart rate too actively. I mean,

01:33:21.250 --> 01:33:23.449
people can. It's the same thing, basically. But

01:33:23.449 --> 01:33:26.430
I think of what's going on in my head. Because

01:33:26.430 --> 01:33:29.689
that relates to... Even at this competition,

01:33:29.989 --> 01:33:33.859
whenever there was... positive pressure which

01:33:33.859 --> 01:33:37.680
was like oh if i do this boulder i'm gonna get

01:33:37.680 --> 01:33:39.539
on the podium or i'm gonna be in first position

01:33:39.539 --> 01:33:43.300
it worked well and then there was like the moment

01:33:43.300 --> 01:33:45.359
it was like if i mess up this boulder i'm in

01:33:45.359 --> 01:33:48.520
trouble instantly that changes the whole thing

01:33:48.520 --> 01:33:51.159
cool well i think those are all the questions

01:33:51.159 --> 01:33:54.859
then um thanks for joining me today is there

01:33:54.859 --> 01:33:57.880
any like last minute words of wisdom or things

01:33:57.880 --> 01:34:01.409
we didn't fully go over yet or anything else

01:34:01.409 --> 01:34:03.829
that you guys wanted to get out there oh this

01:34:03.829 --> 01:34:06.909
is um something that i've spoken to other indian

01:34:06.909 --> 01:34:10.449
athletes about but you know how in in swimming

01:34:10.449 --> 01:34:14.550
they have so many different events that happen

01:34:14.550 --> 01:34:21.789
um but generally swimmers are good at everything

01:34:21.789 --> 01:34:23.689
like if you're good at one type of swimming you're

01:34:23.689 --> 01:34:25.970
going to be kind of good at everything that's

01:34:25.970 --> 01:34:29.430
why michael's is amazing and he got so many medals

01:34:30.010 --> 01:34:33.270
um i was thinking for climbing what if we had

01:34:33.270 --> 01:34:37.890
like way more events maybe not right now because

01:34:37.890 --> 01:34:42.010
it might dilute like viewership um if we spread

01:34:42.010 --> 01:34:46.430
out the events but i think we could try out new

01:34:46.430 --> 01:34:50.090
formats in climbing like for example we used

01:34:50.090 --> 01:34:51.970
to have the classical speed that i was talking

01:34:51.970 --> 01:34:55.210
about earlier on the podcast where um like adidas

01:34:55.210 --> 01:35:00.579
rock masters was it rock But yeah, it's like

01:35:00.579 --> 01:35:03.859
the classical speed format or maybe just like

01:35:03.859 --> 01:35:06.659
a campusing format or maybe just a slab format,

01:35:06.859 --> 01:35:10.159
like a separate event for different types of

01:35:10.159 --> 01:35:15.640
climbing. Adding more events might be cool. Like

01:35:15.640 --> 01:35:20.100
how they tried the team event in Fukuoka. Oh,

01:35:20.119 --> 01:35:25.039
yeah. So I think that could be interesting if

01:35:25.039 --> 01:35:27.210
they try like a lot more formats. I think in

01:35:27.210 --> 01:35:29.350
Indonesia, they do have the classical speed still

01:35:29.350 --> 01:35:34.630
as part of like their nationals. That's what

01:35:34.630 --> 01:35:38.069
I heard. But yeah, I think it would be cool to

01:35:38.069 --> 01:35:40.829
see a lot more formats and not just lead speed

01:35:40.829 --> 01:35:45.289
in Boulder. I mean, they've been doing like mixed

01:35:45.289 --> 01:35:49.369
gender relays and same gender relays for speed.

01:35:49.449 --> 01:35:51.750
So that's been cool to see. I don't really know

01:35:51.750 --> 01:35:53.569
how you would do it for like lead or Boulder

01:35:53.569 --> 01:35:56.550
though. It's the issue. I really like the idea

01:35:56.550 --> 01:36:00.010
that the PCL has. Right, yeah. Where they're

01:36:00.010 --> 01:36:03.670
not just focused on the climber experience, but

01:36:03.670 --> 01:36:07.149
also the viewer experience. I think that's so

01:36:07.149 --> 01:36:10.850
important to grow the sport. We need to find...

01:36:10.850 --> 01:36:15.329
I mean, I do enjoy IFSC -style comps a lot. But

01:36:15.329 --> 01:36:17.890
again, I am a climber. So we do need to find

01:36:17.890 --> 01:36:20.189
things that appeal to a lot of people so that...

01:36:20.510 --> 01:36:22.710
We can grow the sport. And I think them experimenting

01:36:22.710 --> 01:36:25.810
with the format, trying out new things, that's

01:36:25.810 --> 01:36:29.010
the way we move forward and see what really works

01:36:29.010 --> 01:36:32.430
for climbers as well as viewers and then build

01:36:32.430 --> 01:36:35.350
from there. And I think that prize money is amazing.

01:36:35.750 --> 01:36:38.869
Oh, yeah. Vishak, any other last -minute words

01:36:38.869 --> 01:36:41.930
of wisdom or things that you want to talk about?

01:36:42.250 --> 01:36:44.850
Just that I think climbing is a really cool sport.

01:36:44.949 --> 01:36:50.020
I think that the people who... haven't tried

01:36:50.020 --> 01:36:54.560
it and what i've noticed in the past is when

01:36:54.560 --> 01:36:58.380
people give it a shot it's more often than not

01:36:58.380 --> 01:37:01.380
i've seen people get hooked onto it because of

01:37:01.380 --> 01:37:06.539
the problem solving side and the part where you're

01:37:06.539 --> 01:37:09.260
constantly seeing progress like in the beginning

01:37:09.260 --> 01:37:13.420
so i think more people should just try it out

01:37:13.420 --> 01:37:16.140
and give it like a fair shot yeah i think if

01:37:16.140 --> 01:37:19.479
a lot of indians do try climbing they'll be really

01:37:19.479 --> 01:37:24.159
really really good at it I've actually seen a

01:37:24.159 --> 01:37:29.680
lot of Indians excel like really quickly and

01:37:29.680 --> 01:37:36.119
we have this this misconception that we have

01:37:36.119 --> 01:37:39.779
bad genetics for climbing because a lot of Indians

01:37:39.779 --> 01:37:44.760
do have high body fat a person like we tend to

01:37:44.760 --> 01:37:47.760
have more fat because of like famines that happened

01:37:47.760 --> 01:37:51.399
like hundreds of years ago and the people that

01:37:51.399 --> 01:37:53.960
anyway but I think Indians do have really good

01:37:53.960 --> 01:37:57.520
genetics or like South Asia because you see like

01:37:57.520 --> 01:38:01.420
Dayanakta amazing he's a beast yeah and then

01:38:01.420 --> 01:38:07.960
we're seeing like other Indian they're not Indian

01:38:07.960 --> 01:38:09.880
they're like from other places but they're performing

01:38:09.880 --> 01:38:12.399
really well and there are a lot of Indians honestly

01:38:12.399 --> 01:38:17.659
there's quite a lot of us So if we got more opportunity,

01:38:18.000 --> 01:38:21.640
I think Indians could do really well on the circuit.

01:38:21.939 --> 01:38:24.699
I think aside from climbing also, the other thing

01:38:24.699 --> 01:38:27.960
I've learned in these past few years from taking

01:38:27.960 --> 01:38:32.340
up something so niche where like the future is

01:38:32.340 --> 01:38:34.579
so in doubt, like you don't know if you're going

01:38:34.579 --> 01:38:37.500
to make any money, have any success. It really

01:38:37.500 --> 01:38:41.640
helps to commit to whatever you're doing, especially

01:38:41.640 --> 01:38:44.729
in the beginning if it goes badly. I think if

01:38:44.729 --> 01:38:47.729
it's something you care deeply about, then it's

01:38:47.729 --> 01:38:49.970
really worth seeing it through. I mean, this

01:38:49.970 --> 01:38:52.470
might not be the greatest advice because it can

01:38:52.470 --> 01:38:59.630
go badly as well. But I think to really see where

01:38:59.630 --> 01:39:02.050
you can get with something that's, I don't know,

01:39:02.090 --> 01:39:06.710
maybe not as conventional or it's not a normal

01:39:06.710 --> 01:39:10.649
career path. I'd say to people trying out stuff

01:39:10.649 --> 01:39:13.350
like that, it's always worth a shot because...

01:39:13.800 --> 01:39:16.979
And now I know that even if it doesn't work out

01:39:16.979 --> 01:39:20.180
for me, I think like being an athlete, I've learned

01:39:20.180 --> 01:39:24.359
so much. I've had so much fun and I think I won't

01:39:24.359 --> 01:39:26.739
have any regrets about it is the most important

01:39:26.739 --> 01:39:29.539
thing. Yeah. And you're both kind of pioneering

01:39:29.539 --> 01:39:32.520
the sport in India. So hopefully you guys will

01:39:32.520 --> 01:39:35.539
grow the sport a lot there and yeah, see the

01:39:35.539 --> 01:39:38.460
fruits of your labor so far. Do you guys want

01:39:38.460 --> 01:39:41.100
to let people know where they can find you? Instagram

01:39:41.100 --> 01:39:43.960
is... Like I only have Instagram right now, Bharat

01:39:43.960 --> 01:39:48.880
Perera. That's my Instagram. I think you can

01:39:48.880 --> 01:39:52.520
put it in the description. Yeah. My Instagram

01:39:52.520 --> 01:39:57.739
is Vishak underscore OS. I don't post a lot,

01:39:57.760 --> 01:40:00.039
but yeah. I think we should start posting more.

01:40:00.260 --> 01:40:03.460
We should. We should. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool.

01:40:03.579 --> 01:40:05.500
Well, thank you guys again. It was amazing to

01:40:05.500 --> 01:40:08.260
talk to you. Thanks a lot for having us because

01:40:08.260 --> 01:40:12.159
we both listen to the podcast a lot. I think

01:40:12.159 --> 01:40:14.930
it was really cool for us to be on. shared our

01:40:14.930 --> 01:40:17.590
experiences as well yeah super cool thanks so

01:40:17.590 --> 01:40:20.210
much thank you for listening to this episode

01:40:20.210 --> 01:40:23.189
of the that's not real climbing podcast if you've

01:40:23.189 --> 01:40:25.170
been enjoying the podcast i would appreciate

01:40:25.170 --> 01:40:27.770
if you like it on youtube or rate it on your

01:40:27.770 --> 01:40:30.649
podcasting platform and please leave a comment

01:40:30.649 --> 01:40:33.590
or reach out at any time if you have any thoughts

01:40:33.590 --> 01:40:37.109
i try to read all of the messages if you want

01:40:37.109 --> 01:40:40.130
to continue the discussion join the free competition

01:40:40.130 --> 01:40:43.170
climbing discord where we chat live during the

01:40:43.170 --> 01:40:45.880
world series comps and talk all things climbing

01:40:45.880 --> 01:40:49.239
the link is in the description and see you next

01:40:49.239 --> 01:40:49.439
time