67: Ardch Intrachupongse, Thai Boulderer

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.339
Climbing in Thailand started off as a very, very

00:00:02.339 --> 00:00:05.440
expensive and bougie sport. So everyone there

00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:09.529
that climbs makes an absurd amount of money.

00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:14.099
You can't build an obsessed generational fan

00:00:14.099 --> 00:00:17.199
base of an individual sport where you could cheer

00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:22.140
by name. I've spent so many years climbing not

00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.940
to fall, rather than climbing to top. I've always

00:00:24.940 --> 00:00:26.760
looked down and be like, I don't want to go over

00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:28.879
there. Rather than look it up and be like, oh,

00:00:28.899 --> 00:00:32.350
I wonder what's up there. I want Serato to win

00:00:32.350 --> 00:00:37.240
all of it. Welcome to another episode of the

00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:39.899
That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your host,

00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:41.740
Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my guest

00:00:41.740 --> 00:00:45.240
for today, Ardch Intrachupongse. Ardch is a boulder for

00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:47.920
the Thailand team, and he has made semis several

00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:51.100
times in world climbing. In this episode, we'll

00:00:51.100 --> 00:00:53.579
hear why he thinks climbing is performative in

00:00:53.579 --> 00:00:56.380
Thailand, why it's hard to go climbing as a spectator

00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:58.920
sport, and we'll talk about where we draw the

00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:02.299
line on setting that is too trendy. Hope you're

00:01:02.299 --> 00:01:04.260
ready for some hot takes and strong opinions

00:01:04.260 --> 00:01:07.060
in this one. I hope you enjoy this episode with

00:01:07.060 --> 00:01:18.530
ardch. Please pardon this brief intermission, but

00:01:18.530 --> 00:01:21.969
let me tell you about Madrock's Remora Pro. You

00:01:21.969 --> 00:01:24.590
can now see several pros wearing Madrock shoes

00:01:24.590 --> 00:01:28.290
during competitions, and here's why. If you like

00:01:28.290 --> 00:01:30.189
being able to feel the chips you're standing

00:01:30.189 --> 00:01:33.489
on, and you like not having to worry about standing

00:01:33.489 --> 00:01:37.909
on sketchy volumes, then the Remora Pro is Madrock's

00:01:37.909 --> 00:01:40.870
softest aggressive shoe offering. They also have

00:01:40.870 --> 00:01:43.870
a crazy 3D heel that allows you to get more surface

00:01:43.870 --> 00:01:47.250
area when heel hooking, inserts that lock your

00:01:47.250 --> 00:01:50.189
heel into the shoe no matter how hard you're

00:01:50.189 --> 00:01:53.390
pulling. Feel free to message me if you have

00:01:53.390 --> 00:01:56.849
any questions about the shoes or sizing and you

00:01:56.849 --> 00:01:59.230
can use the discount code NotRealClimber for

00:01:59.230 --> 00:02:02.969
10 % off your entire Mad Rock order. Thank you

00:02:02.969 --> 00:02:05.409
to Mad Rock for helping to sponsor this podcast.

00:02:05.530 --> 00:02:08.110
Now back to the show. How are you doing today?

00:02:08.250 --> 00:02:11.509
How was Boulder Fest last week? Good. Boulder

00:02:11.509 --> 00:02:15.169
Fest was good. I was pretty stressed, you know.

00:02:15.430 --> 00:02:19.349
When you kind of walk into a comp that you know

00:02:19.349 --> 00:02:23.430
you can win, especially that I've won it in the

00:02:23.430 --> 00:02:31.150
past. When I won, it was me, Sergey, Vale, and

00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:36.060
Sean Bailey in the finals. So it was four World

00:02:36.060 --> 00:02:38.780
Cup climbers. And obviously I grew up watching

00:02:38.780 --> 00:02:43.669
Sean Bailey and idolizing him. and winning that

00:02:43.669 --> 00:02:47.729
was very special to me but also knowing that

00:02:47.729 --> 00:02:52.810
who I've beaten and what I potentially have like

00:02:52.810 --> 00:02:55.150
the potential to do it kind of add more pressure

00:02:55.150 --> 00:02:57.590
into like oh this is just another event this

00:02:57.590 --> 00:03:01.990
is a smaller event so I should win it so it kind

00:03:01.990 --> 00:03:09.710
of plays in in my head where like how do I disconnect

00:03:09.710 --> 00:03:14.150
that from the ego side of it like how do I have

00:03:14.150 --> 00:03:17.389
that confidence of like i can win but i can win

00:03:17.389 --> 00:03:20.840
and i want to win because i want to do it for

00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:23.699
myself rather than i want to do it because i

00:03:23.699 --> 00:03:28.259
can or i have or whatever like it i i have a

00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:30.759
very difficult time trying to separate those

00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:34.340
two just because like when confidence can be

00:03:34.340 --> 00:03:37.719
very easily mistaken for ego and then you feel

00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:40.439
like people expect you to win a bit as well well

00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:42.280
i mean probably there's probably a little bit

00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:45.259
of that of like I know people might expect me

00:03:45.259 --> 00:03:49.020
to or whatever it may be. Or one of the things

00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:51.860
that pops up a lot in the conversation when these

00:03:51.860 --> 00:03:54.400
events kind of comes around is like, I can't

00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:57.669
lose it. Why can't you lose it? What do you have

00:03:57.669 --> 00:04:01.870
to lose? You might like someone, I personally

00:04:01.870 --> 00:04:04.110
a few years ago, my answer, well, I've done it

00:04:04.110 --> 00:04:06.090
before, so I have to do it again. Or it's my

00:04:06.090 --> 00:04:08.370
like, and when I'm looking back at that, it's

00:04:08.370 --> 00:04:13.419
like just strictly ego talking. But as much as.

00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:16.839
You know, I've grown and grown as a person and

00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:20.430
became a better competitor. There's still a little

00:04:20.430 --> 00:04:23.889
bit of that of like, oh, but I can't lose it.

00:04:25.060 --> 00:04:27.040
Like I've done it before. I can't lose it. You

00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.339
know, I think shifting that perspective from

00:04:29.339 --> 00:04:32.839
I can't lose it to I really got nothing to lose

00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:36.319
except my own ego. And that really kind of flip

00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:38.240
a switch for me of like, ah, I can relax a little

00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:40.579
bit more. I can like have fun a little bit more

00:04:40.579 --> 00:04:42.860
and I can really enjoy the experience of this

00:04:42.860 --> 00:04:45.779
event a little bit more. But I was quite stressed

00:04:45.779 --> 00:04:49.180
just because me and Sergey, Sergey Lov, no, me

00:04:49.180 --> 00:04:50.759
and him, we train together all the time. We compete

00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:55.019
at most events together, mostly locals. And we

00:04:55.209 --> 00:04:59.329
have a very competitive but friendly friendship.

00:04:59.629 --> 00:05:01.250
You know, we always talk shit up to each other.

00:05:01.310 --> 00:05:04.069
We trying to beat each other all the time. And

00:05:04.069 --> 00:05:07.399
we have been, we have been first or second or

00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:09.259
second or third. We've been like placing right

00:05:09.259 --> 00:05:11.899
next to each other, divided, like separate by

00:05:11.899 --> 00:05:17.560
me, like. one attempt for a bunch of the comps,

00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:19.420
you know. Boulder Fest last year, I beat him

00:05:19.420 --> 00:05:21.759
by one attempt. There's a few comps that I did

00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:25.019
here and there that he's beat me by one attempt.

00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.240
I beat him by one attempt. And, you know, we've

00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:30.420
just always been there like with each other and

00:05:30.420 --> 00:05:32.860
trying to beat each other constantly. Well, congrats

00:05:32.860 --> 00:05:34.480
on your... You did win, right? I'm pretty sure.

00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:36.899
Yes, I did. Okay, congrats on that. Thank you

00:05:36.899 --> 00:05:39.060
very much. I also, I heard that Boulder Fest

00:05:39.060 --> 00:05:41.500
is like feeding into PCL. Does that... Yeah.

00:05:41.899 --> 00:05:45.819
Okay. How does that work? Do you know? So all

00:05:45.819 --> 00:05:50.959
the finalists from each local event, from each

00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:53.740
local Boulder Fest, gets an invitation to go

00:05:53.740 --> 00:05:59.670
to the finale in St. Paul's. Okay. And the winner,

00:05:59.810 --> 00:06:03.550
one winner from each gender, men's and women's

00:06:03.550 --> 00:06:09.209
from St. Paul's, gets flown out to PCL. And we'll

00:06:09.209 --> 00:06:11.889
see who shows up because I... already talked

00:06:11.889 --> 00:06:14.930
to a bunch of people and i you know a few people

00:06:14.930 --> 00:06:18.449
aren't really planning to go oh really to the

00:06:18.449 --> 00:06:22.420
finale like it's the same weekend as uh the san

00:06:22.420 --> 00:06:25.620
siago world cup oh so a bunch of the elite and

00:06:25.620 --> 00:06:28.459
boulder uh world cup athletes who because they

00:06:28.459 --> 00:06:30.879
they made a post where they say all the top 20

00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:35.389
world cup athletes are invited um which it's

00:06:35.550 --> 00:06:40.180
great except I've already asked a bunch of them

00:06:40.180 --> 00:06:42.459
if they wanted to go and a lot of them just say

00:06:42.459 --> 00:06:44.860
they can't. Like a bunch of Japanese can't do

00:06:44.860 --> 00:06:46.899
it. A lot of French are going to Red Rocks right

00:06:46.899 --> 00:06:50.930
after. I guess I shouldn't be leaking their schedule,

00:06:51.009 --> 00:06:54.269
but whatever. Okay. I can cut it out if you think.

00:06:54.569 --> 00:06:56.050
No, no, you're good. It doesn't really matter.

00:06:56.129 --> 00:06:57.350
They're going to be there anyways. They're going

00:06:57.350 --> 00:07:00.709
to be posting anyways. So I just know that like

00:07:00.709 --> 00:07:03.430
it's just going to be a bunch of Americans. And

00:07:03.430 --> 00:07:06.879
I talked to Adam Shahar. I was like, hey, man,

00:07:06.980 --> 00:07:09.920
like, are you going to be at the finale? And

00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:12.420
he's like, ah, I'm still thinking about it. So

00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:15.620
I told him not to think too hard just so he doesn't

00:07:15.620 --> 00:07:19.000
go so I can hopefully win. Yeah. Yeah, you have

00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:21.500
a good chance if everyone else is going to be

00:07:21.500 --> 00:07:23.980
going to the World Cup, I guess. So you are prioritizing

00:07:23.980 --> 00:07:27.420
this over going to Santiago? I'm not a lead climber

00:07:27.420 --> 00:07:29.939
anyway, so I'm not really planning on signing

00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:32.680
up. Oh, yeah, because I got confused because

00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:35.129
like that last year there was a bouldering. World

00:07:35.129 --> 00:07:37.889
Series. Yes, Kota Shiba. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

00:07:37.889 --> 00:07:41.920
now it's just lead, which is... I see. Very thankful,

00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:44.199
so I don't have to go. Yeah, okay. Well, good

00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:46.379
luck there. That'll be interesting. I mean, there

00:07:46.379 --> 00:07:50.139
will still be, I guess, like semis there at least.

00:07:50.379 --> 00:07:52.459
There'll be enough people for that. I think so.

00:07:52.540 --> 00:07:54.839
Qualifiers too, maybe. I heard there was quality

00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:58.279
semi and finals. I really hope it's all on -site

00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:02.139
round because that will favor me. I'm nowhere

00:08:02.139 --> 00:08:05.689
near the strongest athletes in America. But I

00:08:05.689 --> 00:08:08.569
think if it were to be a flash round or an onside

00:08:08.569 --> 00:08:13.029
round, I think it could potentially favor me.

00:08:13.449 --> 00:08:20.029
Why is that? I noticed that my ability to consistently

00:08:20.029 --> 00:08:25.310
perform closer to my peak performance is pretty

00:08:25.310 --> 00:08:29.019
good. It's just my peak performance is not that

00:08:29.019 --> 00:08:36.019
high. my max grade on outdoor boulder is like

00:08:36.340 --> 00:08:42.389
v13 and i have second go of v12 you know and

00:08:42.389 --> 00:08:44.789
it's like it's just i'm pretty close up there

00:08:44.789 --> 00:08:49.250
i'm just not that strong yeah i feel a similar

00:08:49.250 --> 00:08:52.450
thing with my climbing and i don't exactly know

00:08:52.450 --> 00:08:55.929
what that means like what is that what does that

00:08:55.929 --> 00:08:58.690
tell you if you're like flash crate is really

00:08:58.690 --> 00:09:02.070
close to your your max grade um i think it's

00:09:02.070 --> 00:09:04.110
just your execution is very good that you're

00:09:04.110 --> 00:09:10.179
very good climber and your limitation is obviously

00:09:10.179 --> 00:09:12.899
you can always get better technique but i think

00:09:12.899 --> 00:09:17.570
uh it just shows that if i work on my physicality

00:09:17.570 --> 00:09:22.029
and my strength that i will make a quicker improvement

00:09:22.029 --> 00:09:27.320
than if i were to just work on my skills i think

00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:28.899
it just shows you're a good climber oh thank

00:09:28.899 --> 00:09:33.399
you yeah Okay, cool. Well, let's get into your

00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:36.080
background a bit. Yeah, well, we spent a long

00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:39.759
time talking about PCL and Boulder Fest. So when

00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:42.480
did you first move to the US? And was it, did

00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:44.580
you always move like directly to Seattle? Or

00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:46.659
was there like other places you lived? Yeah,

00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:50.659
so my family decided to move to America in 2016.

00:09:51.340 --> 00:09:54.299
And we directly moved to Seattle just because

00:09:54.299 --> 00:09:59.080
my mom actually did an exchange program here.

00:09:59.710 --> 00:10:05.370
In Seattle and my mom's side of family, her siblings

00:10:05.370 --> 00:10:09.970
and her parents lived here. So it's just kind

00:10:09.970 --> 00:10:13.450
of nice getting closer to home. And did you already

00:10:13.450 --> 00:10:16.950
start climbing before you had moved? Yeah, yeah,

00:10:17.029 --> 00:10:19.740
I started climbing. Actually, I checked this

00:10:19.740 --> 00:10:25.600
early February of 2014. Oh, okay. So not that

00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:28.299
long before you moved. Yeah, about a year and

00:10:28.299 --> 00:10:35.090
a half. two years yeah so i've already was already

00:10:35.090 --> 00:10:38.750
on thai national team and i already did my first

00:10:38.750 --> 00:10:42.789
international comp and that was i think it was

00:10:42.789 --> 00:10:48.440
malaysia it was asian youth championship geez

00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:51.200
after a year and a half of climbing it was like

00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:57.100
a year yeah i did it in 2015 yeah i it was horrible

00:10:57.100 --> 00:10:59.480
i got second to last a third to last or something

00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.960
like that well yeah i got it's fair yeah exactly

00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:05.480
i did not expect anything more than that but

00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.480
i remember going over there and uh just seeing

00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:13.019
all these guys that you know i look up to now

00:11:13.019 --> 00:11:17.129
like i think i met the first person i remember

00:11:17.129 --> 00:11:22.610
meeting was actually shit i forgot her name that's

00:11:23.340 --> 00:11:27.009
nice yeah i I don't think she remembers me at

00:11:27.009 --> 00:11:33.879
all. She was a Chinese girl. She's doing quite

00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.240
well. I'm just blanking out. I'm not really linking

00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:39.299
names to faces. Well, is she still climbing now?

00:11:39.500 --> 00:11:41.519
Oh, yeah, yeah. I think she just won her World

00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:43.559
Cup. I just forgot her name. Oh, was it like

00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.659
Zilu? I don't think it was Zilu. No, there was...

00:11:46.659 --> 00:11:50.340
It's the other one. Oh, crap. It's been so long

00:11:50.340 --> 00:11:52.960
since the last bouldering World Series. Okay,

00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:56.480
I got this. Oh, yeah, Yutong. Yes, right. So

00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:59.259
that was the first person I remember meeting

00:11:59.259 --> 00:12:02.480
over there. And then I don't think she remembers

00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:06.940
me anymore. I even vaguely remembered it. But

00:12:06.940 --> 00:12:10.129
that was a fun event. Met a bunch of people,

00:12:10.210 --> 00:12:12.850
met a bunch of Japanese guys. This was when like,

00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:15.700
I forgot who it was. I think it was Yoshiyuki

00:12:15.700 --> 00:12:18.519
used to have like crazy colorful hair. Oh, yeah.

00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:22.399
It was, I was so young. I don't remember much

00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.889
from it, but it was a... It was a good and very

00:12:24.889 --> 00:12:28.110
eye -opening event for me to just kind of set

00:12:28.110 --> 00:12:30.970
my career. And so then how did you get into competing

00:12:30.970 --> 00:12:35.690
so early into your climbing start? So I'm like

00:12:35.690 --> 00:12:38.470
other people, mostly in America, where they're

00:12:38.470 --> 00:12:41.529
like, oh, I just went to a birthday party. That

00:12:41.529 --> 00:12:47.710
was not my path. My path was I went to this little

00:12:47.710 --> 00:12:50.539
private school in Thailand and they... decided

00:12:50.539 --> 00:12:53.059
to build a rock climbing wall inside in the middle

00:12:53.059 --> 00:12:56.460
of the school uh and the guy that they brought

00:12:56.460 --> 00:13:04.000
in the faculty happens to be the i think he was

00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:06.860
like a coach like a national team coach or someone's

00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:09.779
very very involved in the climbing community

00:13:09.779 --> 00:13:13.940
um and he basically approached my parents and

00:13:13.940 --> 00:13:17.279
be hey if i can teach if i can coach your kids

00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:19.200
to have the potential to be national team and

00:13:19.769 --> 00:13:21.549
At that point, I was convinced I was going to

00:13:21.549 --> 00:13:24.470
be a soccer player. Fast forward, clearly that

00:13:24.470 --> 00:13:26.429
didn't happen. That would have been a better

00:13:26.429 --> 00:13:29.330
choice for sure. But at that point, like monetary

00:13:29.330 --> 00:13:33.190
wise. Yeah, exactly. I could be a very mediocre

00:13:33.190 --> 00:13:35.669
soccer player and still make more money than

00:13:35.669 --> 00:13:38.669
I am now. I heard that from Mika Malam. Yeah,

00:13:38.690 --> 00:13:41.350
yeah. Oh, yeah, I think he was. I remember him

00:13:41.350 --> 00:13:44.649
saying something like that. Like I, my ranking

00:13:44.649 --> 00:13:47.029
right now is obviously horrible. I'm consistently

00:13:47.029 --> 00:13:51.190
like. 33rd in the world. And if I was 33rd best

00:13:51.190 --> 00:13:53.990
football soccer player in the world, I would

00:13:53.990 --> 00:13:56.269
be making millions, you know? Yeah, I guess that's

00:13:56.269 --> 00:14:01.759
true. And I am making not millions. Yeah. But

00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:05.629
yeah, so that coach approached my mom. And at

00:14:05.629 --> 00:14:07.549
that point, I didn't know better. And it was,

00:14:07.590 --> 00:14:09.789
I didn't actually like it that much. My sister

00:14:09.789 --> 00:14:15.940
did. I was very into ping pong. So I kind of

00:14:15.940 --> 00:14:21.250
chose that. But after my soccer and rugby practiced,

00:14:21.669 --> 00:14:26.389
my sister was still climbing. And being a 9,

00:14:26.490 --> 00:14:30.419
10 -year -old boy that I was, you know, I always

00:14:30.419 --> 00:14:33.639
have way too much energy. So I was like, I don't

00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:35.379
want to wait for my sister. I'll start climbing.

00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:40.120
And then I kept climbing. And so he kind of like

00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.480
really wanted you on the national team, I guess?

00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.379
I think he was just obviously being a gym owner

00:14:45.379 --> 00:14:46.639
as well. He was probably just trying to make

00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:51.179
profit. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I did that, did the

00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:54.960
team selection, did the national team selection,

00:14:55.120 --> 00:15:00.110
won, and then, yeah, got a national team, and

00:15:00.110 --> 00:15:04.909
I kind of was competing for Thailand until I

00:15:04.909 --> 00:15:08.330
moved to America because I wasn't able to travel

00:15:08.330 --> 00:15:10.009
outside the country, so it was going to be very

00:15:10.009 --> 00:15:14.029
difficult to go back and, like, do a team selection

00:15:14.029 --> 00:15:17.350
and slash or travel to another country for Youth

00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:20.340
World Championship. Because we were on an E -2

00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:22.720
visa, so we weren't allowed to leave the country.

00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:24.360
Well, at least I wasn't allowed to leave the

00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:27.399
country. So that was quite difficult. We got

00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:31.740
our green card in 2023. Was it maybe late 22?

00:15:33.370 --> 00:15:38.490
So that allowed me to essentially travel outside

00:15:38.490 --> 00:15:41.289
the country without having to reapply and redo

00:15:41.289 --> 00:15:43.450
all the visa process, which would have cost us

00:15:43.450 --> 00:15:46.909
$10 ,000 to get back. It was kind of not fun.

00:15:47.370 --> 00:15:49.809
Okay, cool. Well, then let's get into the climbing

00:15:49.809 --> 00:15:51.950
scene in Thailand a bit. Absolutely. I don't

00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:53.769
know too many Thai athletes. I don't know if

00:15:53.769 --> 00:15:55.710
there are a lot out there. What is the scene

00:15:55.710 --> 00:16:00.649
like? It's growing very, very rapidly and I'm

00:16:00.649 --> 00:16:03.169
grateful for it. But every time I go back, there's

00:16:03.169 --> 00:16:05.250
certainly a few things that I'm like, wow, this

00:16:05.250 --> 00:16:09.009
is very, very performative. And obviously not

00:16:09.009 --> 00:16:11.690
from the gym commercial side, but just like kind

00:16:11.690 --> 00:16:14.289
of from the climber side of things. Yeah, what

00:16:14.289 --> 00:16:18.919
does that mean? So in America, climbing is obviously

00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.519
originated from actually rock climbing, which

00:16:23.129 --> 00:16:26.350
means that they were originated from, you know,

00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:29.330
dirtbagging and just people going out and climbing

00:16:29.330 --> 00:16:33.149
rocks and shit and living in their cars and all

00:16:33.149 --> 00:16:37.370
that stuff. In Thailand, it started off quite

00:16:37.370 --> 00:16:42.269
different where you need to have money to do

00:16:42.269 --> 00:16:44.309
it. Climbing shoes are incredibly expensive.

00:16:45.259 --> 00:16:47.759
The chalk that you use, the rope that you buy,

00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:51.159
the import of all the equipment is incredibly

00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:53.919
expensive. And there wasn't really many places

00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:59.100
to do it. You need a big warehouse and a massive

00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:02.759
facility just to build a rope wall and stuff

00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:04.440
like that. So they need to pay for that. And

00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:07.460
climbing in Thailand started off as a very, very

00:17:07.460 --> 00:17:11.759
expensive and bougie sport. So everyone there

00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.930
that climbs. makes an absurd amount of money

00:17:15.930 --> 00:17:19.970
for thailand standard and some for american standard

00:17:19.970 --> 00:17:23.410
as well oh wow which is so it's there's so much

00:17:23.410 --> 00:17:27.869
money in that field and now it's like celebrities

00:17:27.869 --> 00:17:31.250
are doing it like actually doing it like performatively

00:17:31.250 --> 00:17:33.869
and there's not there's nothing against that

00:17:33.869 --> 00:17:37.170
you know it's just like oh this is Because I

00:17:37.170 --> 00:17:39.569
obviously kind of grew up in this American climbing

00:17:39.569 --> 00:17:43.089
scene. So I've always been around people dirtbagging

00:17:43.089 --> 00:17:45.589
and living in cars and fucking going climb outdoors

00:17:45.589 --> 00:17:48.069
and whatever. Did you feel like it was still

00:17:48.069 --> 00:17:51.529
like that even when you started in 2014? Oh,

00:17:51.529 --> 00:17:53.589
yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, people

00:17:53.589 --> 00:17:55.670
pull up with nicer cars than I can afford now.

00:17:55.809 --> 00:18:00.609
You know, it's like, I remember a dude that his

00:18:00.609 --> 00:18:03.539
hobby was literally wakeboarding. in thailand

00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:05.339
i was like how where do you even find places

00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:08.759
like that and like you go surfing like well one

00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:10.500
you're gonna have the time to be able to take

00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:13.960
off to go surfing also you own your own surf

00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:17.980
which you have to import that and it's like and

00:18:17.980 --> 00:18:20.200
it was like another thing that was like foiling

00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:23.059
oh yeah i've seen that and it's like that's just

00:18:23.059 --> 00:18:25.920
expensive anyways no matter where you are so

00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:29.160
it's it's always been pretty bougie And obviously

00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:31.000
I went to a private school and now all the Thai

00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:33.359
national team members are from the same school

00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:36.319
that originated from there. So just like it's

00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:40.339
a pretty expensive sport. So like seeing what

00:18:40.339 --> 00:18:42.779
the climbing gym is like and what they're able

00:18:42.779 --> 00:18:45.619
to offer over there and the target audience that

00:18:45.619 --> 00:18:48.119
they were able to grab over there compared to

00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.099
what they would be able to grab here is very,

00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.619
very different. The climbing gyms are doing very

00:18:52.619 --> 00:18:58.609
well just because it is seen to be a... people

00:18:58.609 --> 00:19:01.109
are paying to be seen like taking photos there

00:19:01.109 --> 00:19:03.990
and like a bunch of videos yeah yeah yeah exactly

00:19:03.990 --> 00:19:07.430
people will be like in full like workout gears

00:19:07.430 --> 00:19:09.950
and then they're climbing up and they have a

00:19:09.950 --> 00:19:11.829
little headband and then i look down and it's

00:19:11.829 --> 00:19:15.849
a rental shoe and i'm like whoa what or like

00:19:15.849 --> 00:19:18.529
someone to wear like an andra comp and it will

00:19:18.529 --> 00:19:20.930
be the only and it's like there's no chalk on

00:19:20.930 --> 00:19:23.630
the andra comps and then it's the only climbing

00:19:23.630 --> 00:19:25.809
post on their entire feet and the rest is like

00:19:25.809 --> 00:19:29.849
makeup or whatever maybe it's like You're just

00:19:29.849 --> 00:19:36.710
spending like 500 US dollars to LARP. It kind

00:19:36.710 --> 00:19:40.410
of confuses me, you know? Yeah. So then, does

00:19:40.410 --> 00:19:43.369
the money go towards the gyms? Are the gyms super

00:19:43.369 --> 00:19:46.789
fancy and have good setting? Gyms are fancy.

00:19:47.049 --> 00:19:51.410
Okay. Gyms are fancy. And obviously, given that

00:19:51.410 --> 00:19:54.630
a lot of the... people like traveling and flying

00:19:54.630 --> 00:19:57.390
in asia is slightly easier and thailand is so

00:19:57.390 --> 00:20:00.670
cheap that you can kind of just move there and

00:20:00.670 --> 00:20:04.950
you can just figure it out um the cost of living

00:20:04.950 --> 00:20:07.549
there is much nicer than if you were to be in

00:20:07.549 --> 00:20:10.730
america so they do have a few route setters that

00:20:10.730 --> 00:20:14.759
they fly that they have i'm gonna use the word

00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:17.000
import because they literally relocate the center

00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:19.779
for the job and they like i need you here uh

00:20:19.779 --> 00:20:24.940
there's a few from like uh There's a few people

00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:28.480
from Southeast Asia. There's a few from Singapore

00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:32.890
that are very, very good setters. Derek, there's

00:20:32.890 --> 00:20:35.170
Ash. There's a few people that are kind of there

00:20:35.170 --> 00:20:41.589
that have IFC certification, where over here,

00:20:41.829 --> 00:20:45.289
the route setters kind of stop at USAC certification,

00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:47.950
and USAC certification is pay to win anyways.

00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:51.849
Okay, interesting. Please excuse this brief intermission,

00:20:51.950 --> 00:20:53.910
but if you're interested in ad -free episodes

00:20:53.910 --> 00:20:56.450
and would like to unlock over four hours of deleted

00:20:56.450 --> 00:20:59.250
scenes, including one where Art expands on what

00:20:59.250 --> 00:21:01.730
he means by USAC route setting being pay -to

00:21:01.730 --> 00:21:04.230
-play, do consider helping support this podcast

00:21:04.230 --> 00:21:07.549
on Patreon. Some other perks include a membership

00:21:07.549 --> 00:21:09.869
pin shipped to you after two months, prioritized

00:21:09.869 --> 00:21:12.210
guest questions or the ability to submit video

00:21:12.210 --> 00:21:16.009
questions, early release episodes, and more to

00:21:16.009 --> 00:21:18.470
come. The proceeds go back into the podcast.

00:21:18.670 --> 00:21:20.670
Help me break down. even, and they help me improve

00:21:20.670 --> 00:21:23.289
the experience of the guests. If you'd like to

00:21:23.289 --> 00:21:25.690
help out non -monetarily, liking, commenting,

00:21:25.750 --> 00:21:28.910
and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back

00:21:28.910 --> 00:21:31.309
to the show. So yeah, they do import setters

00:21:31.309 --> 00:21:35.569
over there. They run a lot of workshops, especially

00:21:35.569 --> 00:21:39.910
with like, there's a lot of French setters that

00:21:39.910 --> 00:21:42.869
get flown out to teach a workshop or to set for

00:21:42.869 --> 00:21:45.990
a comp. Like there's a comp coming up that they're

00:21:45.990 --> 00:21:49.440
like their whole setting team. I think it's like

00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:54.910
two dudes from, one dude from Slovenia, one girl

00:21:54.910 --> 00:21:58.309
from Singapore, two guys from Germany, and like

00:21:58.309 --> 00:22:00.470
one from Austria or something. And that's like

00:22:00.470 --> 00:22:02.849
five people that they're flying out to set one

00:22:02.849 --> 00:22:06.430
comp. Wow. Which is like, it's kind of impressive

00:22:06.430 --> 00:22:09.490
that they're, you know, able to do that. And

00:22:09.490 --> 00:22:12.589
it's just because they also care about developing

00:22:12.589 --> 00:22:17.740
the sport and as a whole. So that's pretty good.

00:22:18.900 --> 00:22:21.539
I obviously am a little biased and I'm also a

00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:23.819
bit more in touch with the climbing state in

00:22:23.819 --> 00:22:26.119
Thailand, the gym owners in Thailand. Over here,

00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.079
I'm not that in touch with it, but seeing BP

00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:34.200
selling out to a conglomerate, to a hedge fund

00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:37.039
and stuff like that, it doesn't really make me

00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:40.480
feel like they care the same way that these Thai

00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:42.819
gym owners care about the sport. So do you almost

00:22:42.819 --> 00:22:45.079
feel like it would be better for your climbing

00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:47.779
if you were still living in Thailand? Now, yes.

00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.099
We have a national team training center that

00:22:52.099 --> 00:22:55.980
was built for the SEA Games 2025, which they

00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:59.619
have a... I think they literally spent $150 ,000

00:22:59.619 --> 00:23:01.980
on climbing holds, and they have a nicer hold

00:23:01.980 --> 00:23:03.599
selection and a lot more hold selection than

00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:05.880
a bunch of gyms in America who spend $500 ,000

00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:11.539
on BS that they don't need. Yeah. We have AGs,

00:23:11.539 --> 00:23:14.160
we have no -text holds, we have units, we have

00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:16.579
all this stuff that you never really see in America.

00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:19.509
We have under -blue holds. Yeah. Like, I mean,

00:23:19.509 --> 00:23:22.289
obviously those are Japanese and AGs are like,

00:23:22.369 --> 00:23:25.009
AGs are obviously, you know, Chinese. So it's

00:23:25.009 --> 00:23:28.589
much easier and cheaper to trip. But still, I'm

00:23:28.589 --> 00:23:31.049
just like, yeah, I do. I always wonder that because

00:23:31.049 --> 00:23:34.789
whenever I go and climb in Asia, like in Singapore,

00:23:35.089 --> 00:23:38.029
China, I've been to a couple of gyms. They always

00:23:38.029 --> 00:23:42.170
have like such nice new holds and like huge macros

00:23:42.170 --> 00:23:44.710
that are super nice. And you just don't see that

00:23:44.710 --> 00:23:46.769
in the gyms here. And I wonder, like, I don't

00:23:46.769 --> 00:23:49.880
know why. because the mentality here is more

00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:51.980
holds the better except they don't look at the

00:23:51.980 --> 00:23:54.859
quality of the holds obviously you know they're

00:23:54.859 --> 00:23:58.970
that's maybe a perspective of i i i don't know

00:23:58.970 --> 00:24:01.329
obviously because i'm obviously not a gym owner

00:24:01.329 --> 00:24:04.269
or a route setter i don't i'm not but it's just

00:24:04.269 --> 00:24:07.390
walking around in a bunch of climbing gyms is

00:24:07.390 --> 00:24:11.130
hold rooms you can see what they prioritize and

00:24:11.130 --> 00:24:14.170
a lot of these holds will never be put on the

00:24:14.170 --> 00:24:16.190
wall a bunch of these are just collecting dust

00:24:16.190 --> 00:24:18.640
and i'm like wow that's five thousand dollars

00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.809
worth of holds that you will never use like it's

00:24:21.809 --> 00:24:25.369
just obviously you know that that requires vision

00:24:25.369 --> 00:24:28.670
and yes these asian climbing gyms are starting

00:24:28.670 --> 00:24:32.289
way later and they are able to collect what these

00:24:32.289 --> 00:24:35.470
teams are doing wrong and not do that but dude

00:24:35.470 --> 00:24:38.190
but i we have a training center that we can set

00:24:38.190 --> 00:24:40.710
whatever we want that's closed down for only

00:24:40.710 --> 00:24:44.500
the national team numbers and we have national

00:24:44.500 --> 00:24:47.309
team national uh like route setters that would

00:24:47.309 --> 00:24:49.710
set for us and i can go in whenever i want i

00:24:49.710 --> 00:24:52.710
i can set my own routes i like it over there

00:24:52.710 --> 00:24:58.220
the training has just gotten much better throughout

00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:02.400
the years for sure and even i used to like not

00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:05.500
really enjoy the route in thailand but now i'm

00:25:05.500 --> 00:25:07.220
looking through instagram i went back and tried

00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:11.029
a few routes i'm like wow i would not clear the

00:25:11.029 --> 00:25:14.109
gym in one session the same way i would in america

00:25:14.109 --> 00:25:18.349
and a lot of these easier like not top grade

00:25:18.349 --> 00:25:22.089
or not top ranked uh sorry grade or tape or whatever

00:25:22.089 --> 00:25:26.259
uh like i just wouldn't do it i just wouldn't

00:25:26.259 --> 00:25:28.359
send it and or i wouldn't need to like it would

00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:30.779
require a lot more for me more intentionality

00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:33.920
and more effort to send it the same way where

00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:37.559
if the american climbing gym max out at v10 a

00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.700
v9 would be still easy so maybe maybe training

00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:44.500
in thailand would be better food is cheaper food

00:25:44.500 --> 00:25:47.150
is good You know what I mean? Easy to get around.

00:25:47.410 --> 00:25:50.589
It's cheaper to live there. I guess there's still

00:25:50.589 --> 00:25:54.609
not that many Thai climbers that are doing super

00:25:54.609 --> 00:25:56.569
well in the World Cups that I know of, at least.

00:25:56.589 --> 00:25:58.829
I don't think I've seen others in the semis.

00:25:58.910 --> 00:26:01.190
I'm still the only one in the semis. But there's

00:26:01.190 --> 00:26:03.650
a new upcoming kid. Well, he's not super upcoming

00:26:03.650 --> 00:26:07.750
anymore. His name is Ozzy. Ozzy. He's great.

00:26:07.869 --> 00:26:11.849
Lovely kid. Really love the kid. He's doing very,

00:26:11.910 --> 00:26:15.470
very well. much much better now and I'm excited

00:26:15.470 --> 00:26:19.230
to see if I'm excited to see him on next season

00:26:19.230 --> 00:26:22.309
and I'm very I'm honestly just excited to compete

00:26:22.309 --> 00:26:25.829
with a teammate finally do you think then it's

00:26:25.829 --> 00:26:28.490
because like there just hasn't been enough time

00:26:28.490 --> 00:26:32.289
since the setting and hold selection and whatever

00:26:32.289 --> 00:26:35.150
has been developed or do you feel like there's

00:26:35.150 --> 00:26:38.029
something else that's you know that they're missing

00:26:38.029 --> 00:26:43.029
sport is new sport is very very new And obviously,

00:26:43.170 --> 00:26:48.599
given Aussie, he basically flies to Japan and

00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:51.779
Korea every other month. So it's not like he's

00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:55.059
literally just trading in Thailand. You know,

00:26:55.059 --> 00:26:57.240
he's getting the benefit of the other Asian countries,

00:26:57.380 --> 00:27:00.200
which is great. That's, I think, one of the reasons

00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:04.170
why he's doing very, very well for himself. I,

00:27:04.250 --> 00:27:06.390
on the other hand, can do that. I can fly to

00:27:06.390 --> 00:27:08.430
the other side of the country and the routers

00:27:08.430 --> 00:27:11.809
too are going to be just as soft. But for the

00:27:11.809 --> 00:27:14.680
whole time... country of thailand i do think

00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:18.019
that i think it's the value that people have

00:27:18.019 --> 00:27:21.279
given into the competitions there are a few competitions

00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:28.579
that are being put up that explicitly say that

00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:31.859
if you are a former or current current or former

00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:33.920
national team member you are not allowed to compete

00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.420
that that essentially shows you what they value

00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:39.140
and that essentially shows you what they are

00:27:39.140 --> 00:27:42.450
trying to keep it to be um Obviously, the one

00:27:42.450 --> 00:27:44.630
that I'm thinking about is now an open comp.

00:27:44.809 --> 00:27:48.210
So now we have international athletes, we have

00:27:48.210 --> 00:27:51.710
the World Cup and the current national team members

00:27:51.710 --> 00:27:56.859
competing over there. But there are also still

00:27:56.859 --> 00:28:00.809
events that only prioritize members, which is,

00:28:00.869 --> 00:28:04.130
I personally think that's great, right? You need

00:28:04.130 --> 00:28:08.119
to have a space for members to fully express

00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:11.869
themselves without being scared. of like the

00:28:11.869 --> 00:28:15.150
other open competitors because as much as I hate

00:28:15.150 --> 00:28:19.160
to admit it climbing against a 16 year old kid

00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.369
that is as good as you are or better than you

00:28:22.369 --> 00:28:25.630
are is very very humiliating you know I spent

00:28:25.630 --> 00:28:28.269
three weeks in Japan and there are kids that

00:28:28.269 --> 00:28:30.829
I'm just like god I really hope you're 18 so

00:28:30.829 --> 00:28:33.900
I feel less bad about myself I really hope you're

00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:35.640
my age and I feel less bad about myself. And

00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:37.940
I look at them like, God, you're 13 and you're

00:28:37.940 --> 00:28:40.420
setting shit that I'm just like trying my hardest.

00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.339
So I totally understand. And I do think those

00:28:45.339 --> 00:28:47.619
comps are important. But at the end of the day,

00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:52.079
it's a sport that rich people do just to show

00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:56.220
that they can, that they are financially able

00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:59.140
to or that they are. Interesting. Obviously,

00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:01.180
this is kind of my view of it. And I'm going

00:29:01.180 --> 00:29:07.160
to... Also nitpicking the very small group of

00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:09.220
people in Thailand. There are obviously other

00:29:09.220 --> 00:29:11.299
people that have started climbing when they are

00:29:11.299 --> 00:29:15.700
older. So unfortunately, it's going to be very

00:29:15.700 --> 00:29:17.500
difficult for them to get into calm climbing

00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:20.839
because it requires a certain amount of physicality

00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:25.309
and bounciness. And as much as I hate to say

00:29:25.309 --> 00:29:28.470
it, recovery, you need to recover quickly from

00:29:28.470 --> 00:29:30.309
these movements because it breaks down every

00:29:30.309 --> 00:29:33.049
part of your body. And if you're older, that's

00:29:33.049 --> 00:29:35.049
going to be much harder. If you start at 16,

00:29:35.190 --> 00:29:36.809
your joints won't be as developed. You won't

00:29:36.809 --> 00:29:42.190
be as good as kids. And I also think that the

00:29:42.190 --> 00:29:48.160
kids that are now doing climbing competitively

00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.920
in Thailand, most of them has only been doing

00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:58.569
it for a handful of years. So once that develops,

00:29:58.789 --> 00:30:02.190
once those kids have been starting to climb for,

00:30:02.250 --> 00:30:05.150
you know, 10, 15 years and the next generation

00:30:05.150 --> 00:30:08.430
comes in and there are clear pathways and there

00:30:08.430 --> 00:30:11.869
are clear idols to look up to, I think you'll

00:30:11.869 --> 00:30:15.319
be much better. Now that I'm... I think I was

00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:18.579
either second or third generation of youth climbers

00:30:18.579 --> 00:30:22.700
in Thailand. I had basically nobody to look up

00:30:22.700 --> 00:30:25.660
to. Yeah. You know, the first generation of kid

00:30:25.660 --> 00:30:28.859
climber is literally my buddy. Yeah. That I kind

00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:32.700
of grew up with and that's... And then... There's

00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:35.000
a generation after me, which is, you know, Aussie.

00:30:35.380 --> 00:30:38.240
And then there's one more generation after Aussie,

00:30:38.259 --> 00:30:40.259
which is like, pow, pow. There's a little guy

00:30:40.259 --> 00:30:45.720
that's, he's incredible. So once the third generation,

00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.740
or I guess if you count me as second generation,

00:30:48.819 --> 00:30:50.920
it would be whatever, fourth generation. Once

00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:52.619
it's like fourth generation or fifth generation,

00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:54.960
those kids are going to start doing very well.

00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:57.859
It's just because the sport is very young. Like

00:30:57.859 --> 00:31:02.460
when we think of like the The young kids that

00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:05.640
start climbing and start doing their own competitions

00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:09.559
in America, you think of like Sean Daly, who

00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:15.200
is now 28. He was the kid, you know? We have

00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:20.240
passed down so many generations. Like from Sean,

00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:23.509
I think there was a bit of a... gap with like

00:31:23.509 --> 00:31:25.690
oh there's like zach gala from there and then

00:31:25.690 --> 00:31:28.450
from that gala that goes to colin duffy and then

00:31:28.450 --> 00:31:30.789
that colin duffy kind of goes down to a few other

00:31:30.789 --> 00:31:33.890
kids i think it's just sports yeah yeah exactly

00:31:33.890 --> 00:31:37.430
any like the yeah the girls the younger girls

00:31:37.430 --> 00:31:41.490
was literally like wow who were like the the

00:31:41.619 --> 00:31:46.420
like were considered youth clamor like back back

00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:50.630
in the day i wanted to say ashima plus brooks

00:31:50.630 --> 00:31:54.579
who are now like Consider the older girls kind

00:31:54.579 --> 00:31:56.619
of like, I don't want to be that guy, but kind

00:31:56.619 --> 00:32:01.240
of closing in on the end of the competitive career.

00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:03.960
Obviously, they still got a plenty more because

00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:07.160
they've got a lot of experience. But just looking

00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:13.640
at sheer age, we're getting pushed. And now there's

00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:17.859
16 -year -olds who are competing against all

00:32:17.859 --> 00:32:20.180
these Olympians that are just doing very well.

00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:25.240
Zoe Yi, for example. lucy duncan like it's incredible

00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:29.839
so i think and that's they have like a basically

00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:33.660
10 years age gap so if we consider the first

00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:35.819
generation of the kid climbing and the next and

00:32:35.819 --> 00:32:38.480
the next generation when it's becoming very established

00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:41.180
then we would have to look at a kid who's currently

00:32:41.180 --> 00:32:43.039
11 years old in thailand because i'm you know

00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:49.289
21 uh and we then they're they're 11 You're not

00:32:49.289 --> 00:32:51.650
going to notice anything that incredible just

00:32:51.650 --> 00:32:54.150
yet. You have to wait until they're 15 or 16

00:32:54.150 --> 00:32:56.029
years old and that's still five years away. And

00:32:56.029 --> 00:32:59.990
at that point when that 11 -year -old kid is

00:32:59.990 --> 00:33:02.670
16, there's going to be an 11 -year -old that

00:33:02.670 --> 00:33:05.529
potentially could have that pathway to becoming

00:33:05.529 --> 00:33:09.230
great. But I will be 30 and I wouldn't even notice

00:33:09.230 --> 00:33:11.230
it anymore. I wouldn't even be in the scene.

00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:14.779
Well, I guess we'll see in a few years how Thailand

00:33:14.779 --> 00:33:17.259
ends up. I hope it's going to be great. This

00:33:17.259 --> 00:33:19.740
is kind of the same conversation that I'd like

00:33:19.740 --> 00:33:22.000
to talk about with American climbing as well.

00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:26.640
Obviously, it would be perfect if one day it

00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:31.880
can become a NCAA sport. It can be a D1 sport,

00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:33.920
which would be great. If that were people from

00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:36.000
my generation, I would have loved it. That would

00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:37.819
have been everything we ever wanted. You know,

00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:39.859
the climbers will have an easy, will have a pathway

00:33:39.859 --> 00:33:43.759
to professional. But realistically, it's still

00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:46.259
like 10, 15 years away. And if I can do anything

00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:50.750
to push it towards that, becoming a thing, it

00:33:50.750 --> 00:33:52.470
would be a win. Obviously, I would never experience

00:33:52.470 --> 00:33:54.349
it myself, but it's for the next generation.

00:33:54.809 --> 00:33:57.549
Yeah, I mean, let's talk about that a bit. Like,

00:33:57.589 --> 00:33:59.730
what does it mean to you for the sport to become

00:33:59.730 --> 00:34:02.650
professional? And I guess, like you mentioned,

00:34:02.710 --> 00:34:04.890
like the D1 sports and colleges and stuff like

00:34:04.890 --> 00:34:09.690
that. I don't really follow other sports that

00:34:09.690 --> 00:34:11.889
closely. Does that really mean anything? Do they

00:34:11.889 --> 00:34:14.110
make better livings out of being a D1 athlete?

00:34:14.369 --> 00:34:16.789
Because I kind of thought it was just like you

00:34:16.789 --> 00:34:20.550
do sport for, I guess it means a bit more when

00:34:20.550 --> 00:34:22.190
you're in college, but it's not really like it

00:34:22.190 --> 00:34:25.030
translates to anything outside of college. Unfortunately,

00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:27.469
being a D1 sport, it doesn't really do that much.

00:34:27.650 --> 00:34:32.500
Yeah. But it would be cool to say, I guess. Yes,

00:34:32.500 --> 00:34:36.789
but also it gets preschool. Right, yeah. I just

00:34:36.789 --> 00:34:39.929
think that a lot of people dedicate their whole

00:34:39.929 --> 00:34:44.920
life to being very, very good at something that

00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.619
turns out to be relatively useless once you get

00:34:47.619 --> 00:34:54.920
into the real world. I have friends who are pole

00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:57.699
vaulters. They spend their whole life being very,

00:34:57.820 --> 00:35:00.019
very, very good at pole vaulting. Very niche.

00:35:00.539 --> 00:35:04.059
Yeah, exactly. There's not really a professional

00:35:04.059 --> 00:35:09.000
scene unless you are... a prodigy or you are

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:11.159
the best of the best. Thankfully, those two are.

00:35:12.980 --> 00:35:15.659
But there are people who I've talked to who are

00:35:15.659 --> 00:35:17.980
pole vaulters who are not as good as those two

00:35:17.980 --> 00:35:21.289
who are just like, I'm just doing this so I can

00:35:21.289 --> 00:35:23.150
get free college. Yeah, I didn't realize that

00:35:23.150 --> 00:35:25.510
was part of it. So that's definitely... It just

00:35:25.510 --> 00:35:28.710
would be nice, you know, because like the same

00:35:28.710 --> 00:35:31.550
way that like men's gymnastics at UW is not a

00:35:31.550 --> 00:35:35.269
funded sport. It's a club. And that make it very

00:35:35.269 --> 00:35:36.869
difficult for some of these athletes who have

00:35:36.869 --> 00:35:39.349
dedicated their whole life that I truly respect.

00:35:39.449 --> 00:35:42.829
I'm definitely biased, but I respect all the

00:35:42.829 --> 00:35:45.030
gymnasts. They're incredible athletes. They have

00:35:45.030 --> 00:35:48.530
put their body through absolute hell. And just

00:35:48.530 --> 00:35:52.420
for it to not be funded to have the same fighting

00:35:52.420 --> 00:35:54.900
chance as other school, it's just a little rough.

00:35:56.329 --> 00:35:59.469
But obviously, you know, if you talk about stuff

00:35:59.699 --> 00:36:02.199
like that, we can talk about football where D1.

00:36:02.739 --> 00:36:05.699
is a pathway to professional. Obviously, climbing

00:36:05.699 --> 00:36:08.260
is very, very far away. And in my opinion, we'll

00:36:08.260 --> 00:36:11.860
never get there. Just because it's not in the

00:36:11.860 --> 00:36:16.059
culture. And Americans do like their culture.

00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:24.289
Oh, hello. This one is very special to me. This

00:36:24.289 --> 00:36:27.630
is Tyson. He's my coach. Oh, and this is Sydney.

00:36:27.670 --> 00:36:31.489
How are you? Good to see you. Yeah, I didn't

00:36:31.489 --> 00:36:32.909
know he was going to be here. I didn't know you

00:36:32.909 --> 00:36:35.809
had a coach. That's good to know. Yeah, he watched

00:36:35.809 --> 00:36:40.670
me grow up ever since the age of 11. So most

00:36:40.670 --> 00:36:45.489
of my climbing is owed to him. He's helped me

00:36:45.489 --> 00:36:48.409
through so much life and just climbing as well.

00:36:48.809 --> 00:36:51.110
Well -connected in the gym. Just to glaze him

00:36:51.110 --> 00:36:54.230
a little bit, he basically coached all of the

00:36:54.230 --> 00:36:56.739
athletes growing up. He built Sean from the ground

00:36:56.739 --> 00:36:58.780
up. He built Drew from the ground up. Melina

00:36:58.780 --> 00:37:05.320
Costanza. Kai Leitner, Ben Hanna. Everyone worked

00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:07.519
very closely with him and he basically fostered.

00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:11.610
He was a U .S. national team coach, head coach

00:37:11.610 --> 00:37:16.269
for a very long time alongside Stone Summit coach.

00:37:16.429 --> 00:37:18.909
I forgot his name. I'm blanking out right now.

00:37:19.010 --> 00:37:21.630
Who also, you know, built Zach Gala, Xander Waller.

00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:24.500
Countless amount of people. Those were the two

00:37:24.500 --> 00:37:28.659
guys that basically built this whole entire youth

00:37:28.690 --> 00:37:35.750
funnel into whatever the pro scene is right now.

00:37:36.530 --> 00:37:41.030
Obviously alongside ABC and Team Texas and all

00:37:41.030 --> 00:37:46.900
those guys. But yeah, he's the man. He is very,

00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:50.949
very well connected. Yeah, I guess back to the

00:37:50.949 --> 00:37:55.349
D1. Yeah. Football and American culture. I just

00:37:55.349 --> 00:37:58.940
think that climbing wouldn't ever get there because

00:37:58.940 --> 00:38:03.090
I don't think people would... I mean, it's also

00:38:03.090 --> 00:38:08.170
an individual sport. Yeah. You can't build a

00:38:08.170 --> 00:38:12.449
fan base off... You can't build an obsessed generational

00:38:12.449 --> 00:38:16.449
fan base off an individual sport who only...

00:38:16.929 --> 00:38:19.469
where you could cheer by name. Come on, Art.

00:38:19.630 --> 00:38:21.469
Like, come on, like, whatever, right? You're

00:38:21.469 --> 00:38:23.389
saying that person's name. But the second that

00:38:23.389 --> 00:38:26.969
person retires, then the fan base is gone. I

00:38:26.969 --> 00:38:30.170
see. You know, like, Yanya. Like, oh, I love

00:38:30.170 --> 00:38:32.489
Yanya. But no one goes, oh, I love the Slovenian

00:38:32.489 --> 00:38:35.070
team. Right, yeah. Right? Like, for example,

00:38:35.269 --> 00:38:39.389
Mellow is building a franchise. Like, it started

00:38:39.389 --> 00:38:41.849
as Mellow, and that's their product, and that's

00:38:41.849 --> 00:38:44.210
their brand. Once you build that brand, whoever

00:38:44.210 --> 00:38:46.730
comes after mellow they're like oh i love mellow

00:38:46.730 --> 00:38:50.730
it's not one person it's just that but i also

00:38:50.730 --> 00:38:53.570
can be franchised into other things climbing

00:38:53.570 --> 00:38:55.269
as an individual sport is kind of hard to make

00:38:55.269 --> 00:38:59.429
it that way um and smart people just want to

00:38:59.429 --> 00:39:02.030
root against other people and climbing we don't

00:39:02.030 --> 00:39:04.170
really do that we just try to climb right yeah

00:39:04.170 --> 00:39:06.449
you know i never thought about that whole like

00:39:06.449 --> 00:39:08.469
mellow thing no yeah that's that's a good idea

00:39:08.469 --> 00:39:11.429
that makes sense so then in terms of i guess

00:39:11.429 --> 00:39:14.119
like growing the sport We're like totally going

00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:16.800
off of the schedule I had in mind, but that's

00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:19.760
fine. In terms of like growing the sport, what

00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:22.079
do you think it will take to grow climbing as

00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:25.079
a sport then? Are you thinking like teams or

00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:28.199
is it just there's like some way to grow it individually?

00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:30.880
Wow, that's a very hard question. I mean, that's

00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:32.960
kind of a million dollar question. Yeah, that's

00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:35.199
true. If I knew how to do that, I could build.

00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:39.440
I mean, PCL is doing great. PCL is bringing to

00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:41.820
like Red Bull and all that stuff and kind of

00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:44.800
making it. They're literally building a franchise

00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:47.599
of it. There's going to be a storytelling world

00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:53.260
year -round. I'm only bringing PCL into this

00:39:53.260 --> 00:39:57.159
because I have no idea how to actually make it

00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:01.420
a D1 sport. I don't even know what's the requirement

00:40:01.420 --> 00:40:05.420
of a sport to become D1. I don't know any of

00:40:05.420 --> 00:40:07.739
that. I just know it could be nice. I just think

00:40:07.739 --> 00:40:12.210
it would be nice. But I think for it to not just...

00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:15.039
Maybe become a D1 sport, but becoming a more

00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:20.599
professional sport would be, yeah, what PCL is

00:40:20.599 --> 00:40:24.619
doing. Make a stage and you basically build a

00:40:24.619 --> 00:40:27.579
story around it. One of the things I was very

00:40:27.579 --> 00:40:29.679
excited about, like I said earlier, is a year

00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:33.539
-round storytelling. This is the same reason.

00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:35.460
This is the same thing. When I look at that,

00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.880
it's the same thing that I would think of F1.

00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:42.920
I could not give a shit about which car goes

00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:45.679
in circle faster. Obviously, there's more than

00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:49.829
that. But watching last season, Max Verstappen

00:40:49.829 --> 00:40:53.690
being down 130 points and just trying to squeeze

00:40:53.690 --> 00:40:57.460
himself back into the championship spot. Catching

00:40:57.460 --> 00:41:00.460
up every so often. Trying his best. That story

00:41:00.460 --> 00:41:04.539
is what I follow. And I like a person. I like

00:41:04.539 --> 00:41:07.360
Kimi Ancinelli. I would like to follow another

00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:11.800
person's life. that turned me into a fan. And

00:41:11.800 --> 00:41:15.630
then I would go out of my way, give my attention

00:41:15.630 --> 00:41:19.389
into following this person's life. And I think

00:41:19.389 --> 00:41:23.780
what PCL is doing, what… The same thing with…

00:41:23.780 --> 00:41:26.320
Have you seen the Crocs documentary? Was that

00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:28.579
the one about… Who was in that again? The Olympics.

00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:32.039
Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah. I think that was like…

00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:35.340
Be able to… I think that's the easiest way is

00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:40.070
to basically build a story around it. And basically…

00:41:40.380 --> 00:41:43.739
built a fan base for a specific person, not because

00:41:43.739 --> 00:41:45.800
they want to watch the sport, but because they

00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:48.219
want to watch that person win. They're rooting

00:41:48.219 --> 00:41:50.920
for someone and they're cheering for that person.

00:41:51.139 --> 00:41:53.599
No one could give a shit about climbing comps.

00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:57.940
I do. You do. A lot of people do. But that a

00:41:57.940 --> 00:42:00.320
lot of people is not going to fill a stadium.

00:42:00.699 --> 00:42:02.780
When people fill a stadium, they just want to

00:42:02.780 --> 00:42:07.179
watch their favorite player play or they just

00:42:07.179 --> 00:42:10.050
want to watch their favorite... team wins or

00:42:10.050 --> 00:42:11.949
they just are there because they want to get

00:42:11.949 --> 00:42:15.409
drunk on a Tuesday night sure yeah right but

00:42:15.409 --> 00:42:18.369
then but then you just need to make a climbing

00:42:18.369 --> 00:42:21.510
you just need to be able to market climbing as

00:42:21.510 --> 00:42:25.929
a cool thing to socially do which I think you

00:42:25.929 --> 00:42:31.219
know it's we're getting there you know like there's

00:42:31.219 --> 00:42:34.460
a Seattle watering project right by University

00:42:34.460 --> 00:42:38.000
Village oh sorry right by UW the University of

00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:41.800
Washington And oh my God, it is filled with college

00:42:41.800 --> 00:42:44.360
kids. Not because they're there to climb. They're

00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:47.039
just there because their friends are there. They

00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:48.920
make an incredible amount of money just because

00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:51.099
everyone is there. It's like, oh, where should

00:42:51.099 --> 00:42:53.679
we go? Oh, it's kind of hot. We can either go

00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:55.380
swim or we can go climbing because they have

00:42:55.380 --> 00:42:57.500
AC in there. Oh, there's a nice place to study.

00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:59.159
They just go in there because they can study.

00:42:59.860 --> 00:43:03.460
They just make it a nice thing and a social thing

00:43:03.460 --> 00:43:07.809
to do. Oh, I've been climbing before. Oh, you

00:43:07.809 --> 00:43:11.840
like climbing? oh you know this there's a event

00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:13.860
like a climbing competition i guess i'll come

00:43:13.860 --> 00:43:15.940
watch with you i want to hang out with you i'll

00:43:15.940 --> 00:43:17.920
come watch with you like you like make it a social

00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.099
thing i think that's gonna be the best way to

00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:24.039
make climbing more mainstream yeah i think a

00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:26.400
big issue with that though is that there are

00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:28.940
a lot of climbers and it somehow doesn't really

00:43:28.940 --> 00:43:31.440
translate into people who are watching the comms

00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:35.440
yeah it's a very it's a very individualized thing

00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:38.989
and uh um I just think that, but I also think

00:43:38.989 --> 00:43:44.090
that calm climbing isn't as glorified and marketed

00:43:44.090 --> 00:43:48.329
as it could be. You know, the same way, like,

00:43:48.389 --> 00:43:51.530
you walk into B -Pump and you see Miho's face

00:43:51.530 --> 00:43:54.750
plastered all over the wall. You see Yoshiyuki's

00:43:54.750 --> 00:43:57.849
face all over everywhere, you know? We definitely,

00:43:57.969 --> 00:44:02.090
we need, like, a personality. Yeah, yeah. I feel

00:44:02.090 --> 00:44:04.130
like, especially in the US, it'll get, like,

00:44:04.130 --> 00:44:06.889
marketed like crazy if we had, like… Like a Michael

00:44:06.889 --> 00:44:09.090
Phelps kind of character. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:44:09.510 --> 00:44:12.630
Like, I guess, climbing personality, we have,

00:44:12.690 --> 00:44:18.809
like, Magnus. We have Alex. But those guys, Magnus

00:44:19.099 --> 00:44:23.000
kind of moved off climbing. And I feel like most

00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:26.039
of our climbing personalities are outdoors. Because

00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:29.159
that's, like, what the core climber likes to

00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:31.840
do. It's just a bunch of fucking hippies. Hippies

00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:35.019
and weirdos. Not weirdos, because I'm also one

00:44:35.019 --> 00:44:38.920
of them. going outdoors get high in the woods

00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:41.219
and climb some rocks and be like hell yeah this

00:44:41.219 --> 00:44:45.500
is sick yeah like yeah it is sick but that's

00:44:45.500 --> 00:44:48.159
sick to me and that's sick to the people that

00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:50.659
won't spend a lot of money on the sport it might

00:44:50.659 --> 00:44:52.519
slowly change i mean there's so many like new

00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:55.599
comp climbing youtubers now who are like doing

00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:59.360
both i guess no one in the u .s actually yet

00:44:59.849 --> 00:45:02.750
Yet. Yes, yet. But someone can fill that spot.

00:45:02.929 --> 00:45:05.510
So that's an idea for any U .S. climbers out

00:45:05.510 --> 00:45:07.610
there who are looking for a different source

00:45:07.610 --> 00:45:09.170
of funding. Call in Duffy, please. Yeah. Sergey

00:45:09.170 --> 00:45:11.289
Lugno, need to start a YouTube channel. Yeah,

00:45:11.309 --> 00:45:15.519
exactly. No, I'm kidding. He's one of the least

00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:17.619
entertaining person to actually watch. Jeez.

00:45:18.500 --> 00:45:21.280
No, he's like you will ask him a question and

00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:24.219
then it would take him 30 seconds of just silence

00:45:24.219 --> 00:45:28.349
before he say one word. Hmm. Okay. We're going

00:45:28.349 --> 00:45:30.489
to do an interview with him for our Climbing

00:45:30.489 --> 00:45:34.130
Gyms YouTube channel. And I think I'll send it

00:45:34.130 --> 00:45:35.969
to you. I think you'll have a great time watching

00:45:35.969 --> 00:45:38.929
it. I'm going to ask the editor not to cut out

00:45:38.929 --> 00:45:42.090
all the pauses. It will be like a 15 -minute

00:45:42.090 --> 00:45:44.889
video of him saying maybe four sentences. Just

00:45:44.889 --> 00:45:46.510
because all that time he just spends thinking.

00:45:47.070 --> 00:45:49.170
Interesting. Okay. I mean, do you think that'll

00:45:49.170 --> 00:45:51.809
be good for engagement? Oh, no, no, no. Horrible.

00:45:52.250 --> 00:45:54.210
Absolutely horrible. But it would be very entertaining

00:45:54.210 --> 00:45:57.789
for me, personally. But I think, yeah, I think

00:45:57.789 --> 00:46:01.469
there should be like Ross Fulkerson, if he can

00:46:01.469 --> 00:46:04.389
get back on the climbing team. If, you know,

00:46:04.449 --> 00:46:08.570
like he's slightly older and there's a lot of

00:46:08.570 --> 00:46:11.690
very, very competitive athletes coming in. So,

00:46:11.750 --> 00:46:14.650
you know, it's getting real, real hard for people

00:46:14.650 --> 00:46:18.230
who are established to be able to do that. Also,

00:46:18.389 --> 00:46:20.869
you need a lot of money to be able to afford

00:46:20.869 --> 00:46:24.440
a film crew. just someone to travel with you

00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:27.679
who or an editor or something you know yeah I

00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:29.619
actually I don't know how the other people are

00:46:29.619 --> 00:46:33.099
doing it like I watched Mejdi's videos and he

00:46:33.099 --> 00:46:36.539
has like the craziest shots like the craziest

00:46:36.539 --> 00:46:39.699
footage I don't even know where he gets it like

00:46:39.699 --> 00:46:41.639
because it's like part of it is from the world

00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:44.760
cups and I never even saw that clip during the

00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:47.519
world cup it's like an even nicer shot than what

00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:50.219
they showed during the actual competition no

00:46:50.219 --> 00:46:53.760
idea a lot of time Mejdi gets uh some of the

00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:58.460
stuff if it's for like adidas tarix and sometimes

00:46:58.460 --> 00:47:02.059
they help oh um and a lot of time it's his friends

00:47:02.059 --> 00:47:05.739
who's also like let's say sam richard has the

00:47:05.739 --> 00:47:08.860
crew uh his his buddy that goes with him maybe

00:47:08.860 --> 00:47:11.699
sam pays for it maybe mishti helps him you know

00:47:11.699 --> 00:47:13.440
it's just stuff like that like oh he's buddy

00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:15.199
he's a buddy of mine he's a friend of mine he's

00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:17.460
just helping out and just like stuff like that

00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:21.039
was like whoa kind of it's kind of nice you know

00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:24.920
Who knew? It's kind of like a logistical planning

00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:27.179
thing. Yeah. I mean, obviously, I don't know

00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:29.880
what they do with their money. And I don't know

00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:32.500
how they're able to pull that off. But props

00:47:32.500 --> 00:47:35.500
to them because, wow, Mischty have an incredible

00:47:35.500 --> 00:47:37.860
production team. Yeah. His videos are amazing.

00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:42.420
Yeah. And so that kind of also reminds me, you

00:47:42.420 --> 00:47:44.280
kind of wanted to talk about like dirtbagging

00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:47.179
a bit. You've talked a lot about, you know, the

00:47:47.179 --> 00:47:50.289
hippie culture. It does seem kind of like it's

00:47:50.289 --> 00:47:52.989
going away. Do you think that's for the better

00:47:52.989 --> 00:47:55.840
for the comp scene? For the comp scene, I don't…

00:47:55.840 --> 00:48:00.250
I think that… I don't think there's a better

00:48:00.250 --> 00:48:03.949
or worse. I think that outdoor… With that kind

00:48:03.949 --> 00:48:07.550
of going away from the sport itself, I think

00:48:07.550 --> 00:48:13.369
it is going to separate the comp climbing and

00:48:13.369 --> 00:48:17.500
the outdoor climbing. So it would turn into…

00:48:18.280 --> 00:48:21.760
a rock climber and a sport climber. And sport

00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:23.739
climber would no longer means a rope climber.

00:48:23.780 --> 00:48:26.400
That would just means a competitive climbing.

00:48:26.900 --> 00:48:29.139
So I think it was just kind of separate these

00:48:29.139 --> 00:48:33.079
two into two different sports. And I personally

00:48:33.079 --> 00:48:38.329
think that's fine. That's fine to me. Even now,

00:48:38.409 --> 00:48:41.570
I feel like it's very different anyways. We have

00:48:41.570 --> 00:48:44.429
outdoor climbers who are incredibly strong outdoors.

00:48:44.750 --> 00:48:46.750
You put them in comp C and they will not do a

00:48:46.750 --> 00:48:52.340
single boulder. you put a calm climber in the

00:48:52.340 --> 00:48:54.800
outdoor scene, they would not immediately crush

00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:59.070
it. But with a little bit of time, they will

00:48:59.070 --> 00:49:01.449
start to do very, very well. You know, but that's

00:49:01.449 --> 00:49:04.010
also another controversial topic that I think

00:49:04.010 --> 00:49:07.190
a few people would definitely flame me for it.

00:49:07.250 --> 00:49:09.250
But, you know, it's whatever. I mean, I just

00:49:09.250 --> 00:49:10.710
think that calm climbers... Well, I mean, I agree

00:49:10.710 --> 00:49:13.550
with that. Yeah, I just think that calm climbers...

00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:16.699
will go out and with a little bit of time, they're

00:49:16.699 --> 00:49:18.639
going to crush all the outdoor climbers. Yeah,

00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:22.159
I agree. Conor Herson, you know, like, yeah,

00:49:22.260 --> 00:49:24.880
there's a few people that I could think of that's

00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:27.340
been the case. But obviously, you need to have

00:49:27.340 --> 00:49:30.579
experience in outdoor climbing. And you also,

00:49:30.780 --> 00:49:32.619
another thing about calm climbing is that you

00:49:32.619 --> 00:49:37.039
have certain skin for fiberglass and crimps and

00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:38.920
indoor climbing, and you need to have certain

00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:42.960
skin for outdoor climbing. So maybe it's a...

00:49:43.210 --> 00:49:45.130
It was just a cool thing of like, how do I get

00:49:45.130 --> 00:49:47.409
my skin right to be able to have the best friction

00:49:47.409 --> 00:49:50.650
on rocks? That's also, you know, different topics.

00:49:50.969 --> 00:49:53.690
Well, like what is that difference? Just stiffer,

00:49:53.849 --> 00:49:57.090
harder, thicker. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Because

00:49:57.090 --> 00:50:01.059
you can be pretty dry. Your hair can be pretty

00:50:01.059 --> 00:50:03.599
dry outdoor and you probably won't dry fire as

00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:07.800
much as you would on fiberglass. And there are

00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:12.039
also products that helps your skin hold moisture.

00:50:14.070 --> 00:50:17.639
for outdoors and that would be more effective

00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:21.300
for outdoor than it would be for indoor fiberglass

00:50:21.300 --> 00:50:25.260
friction climbing like there's you can climb

00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:28.139
pretty solid outdoor with like pretty glassy

00:50:28.139 --> 00:50:31.380
well okay not pretty glassy obviously but if

00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:34.059
you you wake up one day have a very glassy fingertips

00:50:34.059 --> 00:50:36.900
and you go outdoors and you don't want to sand

00:50:36.900 --> 00:50:38.579
it down there are products that will help you

00:50:38.579 --> 00:50:40.760
be able to get through the session pretty good

00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:44.650
um but indoors you're going to sand that down

00:50:44.650 --> 00:50:46.769
and you're going to basically mousse half the

00:50:46.769 --> 00:50:49.250
layer of your skin. Yeah, my tips are always

00:50:49.250 --> 00:50:52.989
very nice and smooth and they're not calloused.

00:50:53.710 --> 00:50:56.309
That's nice. It's great, yeah. That sounds like

00:50:56.309 --> 00:50:58.489
a dream. I'm just looking at my fingertips now

00:50:58.489 --> 00:51:02.130
and it's all pink and it's just bad. Well, you

00:51:02.130 --> 00:51:04.630
climbed outside recently, right? I did. I went

00:51:04.659 --> 00:51:11.070
yesterday and it's granite as well. It's crystal

00:51:11.070 --> 00:51:13.880
climbing. Everything hurts. And I also did a

00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:17.159
bunch of paddling on fiberglass the day before.

00:51:17.260 --> 00:51:21.730
I saw that, yeah. So it was just, you know, recipe

00:51:21.730 --> 00:51:24.489
for disaster. Yeah, Bharat, send that to me because

00:51:24.489 --> 00:51:28.250
we were talking about like outdoor boulders that

00:51:28.250 --> 00:51:31.230
are starting to turn more like comp style. Yeah,

00:51:31.250 --> 00:51:32.849
yeah. Do you think that people are going to start

00:51:32.849 --> 00:51:37.190
bringing comp style moves to outdoors more? Who's

00:51:37.190 --> 00:51:40.590
people? I guess like former comp climbers, current

00:51:40.590 --> 00:51:43.909
comp climbers who are, I don't know. Current

00:51:43.909 --> 00:51:47.090
comp climbers, absolutely. There's going to be

00:51:47.090 --> 00:51:49.989
things that we find easier. You know, for example,

00:51:50.130 --> 00:51:54.070
I posted that story about me doing Kingslayer

00:51:54.070 --> 00:51:56.949
with a paddle beta. Obviously, that's as a joke.

00:51:57.010 --> 00:52:00.469
It's probably not easier. But to me, I had a

00:52:00.469 --> 00:52:02.510
pretty, I brought my old pair of shoes because

00:52:02.510 --> 00:52:06.159
I don't want to wreck my new ones. My foot just

00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:09.110
couldn't stay on the crystal. And I decided paddle

00:52:09.110 --> 00:52:13.420
and it was much easier. You know, obviously getting

00:52:13.420 --> 00:52:15.420
that skill is going to be harder for a lot of

00:52:15.420 --> 00:52:18.440
outdoor climbers who have spent their whole entire

00:52:18.440 --> 00:52:21.500
career trying to lock off certain things. I do

00:52:21.500 --> 00:52:25.849
want to see more comp movements outdoor. I just

00:52:25.849 --> 00:52:28.880
don't think that the outdoor climbers are going

00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:31.550
to be too pleased about it. And there's also

00:52:31.550 --> 00:52:35.449
going to be a lot of pushback from the media

00:52:35.449 --> 00:52:38.179
and all the people and all that. people who really

00:52:38.179 --> 00:52:40.099
have no idea what they're talking about pushback

00:52:40.099 --> 00:52:42.199
from media in what way not necessarily pushback

00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:43.940
but they're just like bro that's not what great

00:52:43.940 --> 00:52:45.699
it is it's just like that's just not it you know

00:52:45.699 --> 00:52:47.059
it's just the same thing with like when you watch

00:52:47.059 --> 00:52:49.599
a v17 you're like that's not v17 i mean but you

00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:53.539
also but if it's in a movement that's more generic

00:52:53.539 --> 00:52:57.239
to rock climbing people will be more like all

00:52:57.239 --> 00:52:59.619
right yeah i guess that's fair but if it's just

00:52:59.619 --> 00:53:01.880
a paddle no one will understand no one be like

00:53:01.880 --> 00:53:04.679
bro obviously that's not it you know like i i

00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:12.719
put up this slab I call it a v10 slab but I literally

00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:15.539
it's just you start standing on one part of the

00:53:15.539 --> 00:53:18.039
rock and you just jump as high as you can go

00:53:18.039 --> 00:53:21.219
into a press and like a press thing oh wow it's

00:53:21.219 --> 00:53:24.500
probably not v10 but it's that like it's just

00:53:24.500 --> 00:53:27.380
so unlikely that you would do it quickly you

00:53:27.380 --> 00:53:29.360
would have to put time into you have to put effort

00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:34.579
into it like obviously it's not that hard or

00:53:34.579 --> 00:53:38.059
physical to do But just to make sure that every

00:53:38.059 --> 00:53:41.789
piece is, every attempt, every piece is, every

00:53:41.789 --> 00:53:44.750
part of your body moves in a way that allow that

00:53:44.750 --> 00:53:49.130
move to happen. It's much harder than a bunch

00:53:49.130 --> 00:53:51.650
of other stuff I've done. So I put on a V10 and

00:53:51.650 --> 00:53:55.030
literally the comment is just like, this can't

00:53:55.030 --> 00:53:57.590
be serious. Like this dude doesn't know anything.

00:53:57.949 --> 00:54:00.989
Like, oh, I'm now a V10 climber, you know? And

00:54:00.989 --> 00:54:03.429
like, like, it's just like, there's been - Well,

00:54:03.429 --> 00:54:05.960
did they do it? No, no, no. Most of them have

00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:08.260
never done it, you know. Obviously, but that's

00:54:08.260 --> 00:54:11.559
kind of the media. I thought it was funny. But

00:54:11.559 --> 00:54:17.099
it's like, it probably is closer to that grade

00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:19.579
just because how technical and like how hard

00:54:19.579 --> 00:54:23.010
it, like, I am more likely to be able to run

00:54:23.010 --> 00:54:27.789
laps on a V12 than that thing. Which, you know,

00:54:27.789 --> 00:54:31.449
and I'm giving it V10. So I think that there

00:54:31.449 --> 00:54:33.289
will be more of it. And I think it would take

00:54:33.289 --> 00:54:36.110
the media and the whole community a very long

00:54:36.110 --> 00:54:41.110
time until it's very normalized to do cordos

00:54:41.110 --> 00:54:45.949
and kind of like more comp move outdoors. And

00:54:45.949 --> 00:54:47.909
I think it's going to open up the doors for a

00:54:47.909 --> 00:54:52.130
lot of different, like new established as well.

00:54:52.170 --> 00:54:53.969
I think it's going to be very, very cool to see

00:54:53.969 --> 00:54:56.590
where we can take that. Yeah, it'll be interesting.

00:54:56.789 --> 00:54:59.730
But back to what we were saying about, I guess

00:54:59.730 --> 00:55:01.739
like... comp climbers going outside and being

00:55:01.739 --> 00:55:06.260
able to pick it up pretty quickly. I feel like

00:55:06.260 --> 00:55:09.119
part of that has to do with comp climbers have

00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:12.659
to be a lot more well -rounded and they have

00:55:12.659 --> 00:55:15.980
to be able to do a bit of everything. And I think

00:55:15.980 --> 00:55:17.920
also along the lines of like the dirt bagging

00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:19.980
you were talking about, comp climbers are a lot

00:55:19.980 --> 00:55:23.139
more serious about their schedules and routines

00:55:23.139 --> 00:55:26.940
and training. So do you think that might be part

00:55:26.940 --> 00:55:30.920
of it? Yes, absolutely. I also think that calm

00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:32.900
climbers have this very particular skill that

00:55:32.900 --> 00:55:35.679
not a lot of outdoor climber has or at the same

00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:39.579
level is be able to execute on the go. You watch

00:55:39.579 --> 00:55:41.719
Hamish McArthur climb a certain climb and you're

00:55:41.719 --> 00:55:44.739
like, wow, he said he's going to do it and then

00:55:44.739 --> 00:55:47.119
he just do it. And he's able to put that together.

00:55:47.179 --> 00:55:49.239
He's able to get his mind in the right place

00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:52.340
to make that happen. His execution is absolutely

00:55:52.340 --> 00:55:55.500
on point. And that's a great representation of

00:55:55.500 --> 00:56:01.869
a predominantly Formal probably like competitive

00:56:01.869 --> 00:56:06.030
focused moving into the outdoor world. I think

00:56:06.030 --> 00:56:08.969
it's very important in every sport. In every

00:56:08.969 --> 00:56:10.869
sport and everything, especially, you know, climbing.

00:56:11.969 --> 00:56:15.650
But it's just you need that in comp climbing.

00:56:15.829 --> 00:56:18.010
You have four minutes. You have to do it. You

00:56:18.010 --> 00:56:20.050
give us five, it will be a completely different

00:56:20.050 --> 00:56:23.190
sport. Well, not actually, but, you know, it's

00:56:23.190 --> 00:56:26.110
like the climb will feel different. The way we're

00:56:26.110 --> 00:56:27.489
going to manage our time is going to be different.

00:56:28.030 --> 00:56:31.090
And just outdoor climbers, a lot of time, when

00:56:31.090 --> 00:56:35.030
I hear people putting in fucking hundreds of

00:56:35.030 --> 00:56:39.860
sessions into something and just hoping that

00:56:39.860 --> 00:56:45.039
they find that one day that they can do it. Or

00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:49.610
you learn to put yourself in a certain mindset

00:56:49.610 --> 00:56:51.389
and make sure that the temperature is right,

00:56:51.449 --> 00:56:53.949
make sure your body is right, and force that

00:56:53.949 --> 00:56:59.130
mindset before you give it that attempt. You

00:56:59.130 --> 00:57:01.750
know, you see people doing that all the time.

00:57:01.849 --> 00:57:04.090
Mishti did that very well when he was in Squamish

00:57:04.090 --> 00:57:06.570
or anywhere, really. Because, I mean, I guess

00:57:06.570 --> 00:57:09.090
with rock, it'll always be there. So you can

00:57:09.090 --> 00:57:11.630
spend as long as you want on it. Yeah, you can

00:57:11.630 --> 00:57:13.650
just go and have a good day and have a good time

00:57:13.650 --> 00:57:15.489
hanging out with your friends at the rocks and

00:57:15.489 --> 00:57:18.469
trying to, like, put this thing together when

00:57:18.469 --> 00:57:21.130
you might not be in the mindset for it. I know

00:57:21.130 --> 00:57:22.710
Ross Fulkerson talked a lot about that, about,

00:57:22.750 --> 00:57:26.010
like, just kind of having the right mindset and

00:57:26.010 --> 00:57:29.690
how to get there. Calm climber just do that very,

00:57:29.750 --> 00:57:32.789
very well. And you can see that. I mean, this

00:57:32.789 --> 00:57:34.289
is kind of the same thing that we were talking

00:57:34.289 --> 00:57:37.989
about earlier of like how my flash grade is like

00:57:37.989 --> 00:57:40.809
pretty high in the same way that you flash is

00:57:40.809 --> 00:57:42.630
pretty high as well. It's just so that you are

00:57:42.630 --> 00:57:46.780
able to be a good climber. Like you're a good

00:57:46.780 --> 00:57:48.460
calm climber. You have that mindset where you

00:57:48.460 --> 00:57:52.519
can just put that together when you can. Serato

00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:55.769
is not the strongest person in the session. He's

00:57:55.769 --> 00:58:00.309
just able to... force that mentality to be almost

00:58:00.309 --> 00:58:04.650
perfect immediately or when he needs to be he's

00:58:04.650 --> 00:58:06.090
definitely feeling the pressure though especially

00:58:06.090 --> 00:58:08.849
coming up oh yeah yeah i talked to him about

00:58:08.849 --> 00:58:12.269
it when i was in japan and he was just like i

00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:18.530
will win i think okay okay so we'll see i'm excited

00:58:18.530 --> 00:58:21.409
for sure yeah yeah that'll be good i guess thinking

00:58:21.409 --> 00:58:25.139
about the future of like comp climbing is there

00:58:25.139 --> 00:58:27.960
any climbing trend that you feel like is too

00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:30.340
far and like you don't like it like it's going

00:58:30.340 --> 00:58:33.219
too far away i don't know maybe this was me but

00:58:33.219 --> 00:58:35.619
for me it's kind of to each their own if you

00:58:35.619 --> 00:58:40.539
enjoy you enjoy it you know uh what are some

00:58:40.539 --> 00:58:42.539
of the ones that you think are like a little

00:58:42.539 --> 00:58:45.360
too far i talked about this semi recently with

00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:51.340
um Max Ayrton, the British route setter. He was

00:58:51.340 --> 00:58:55.300
talking about using rope swings during comps.

00:58:56.639 --> 00:59:00.599
He's the one who set the handstand boulder. He

00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.820
said he just wants to do that one time. He liked

00:59:04.820 --> 00:59:07.139
the idea that one time and he wants to set it

00:59:07.139 --> 00:59:11.440
one time and then he'll be done with that. The

00:59:11.440 --> 00:59:15.760
rope swing and the holds moving. It is like kind

00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:18.059
of funny. I don't necessarily know if I'd want

00:59:18.059 --> 00:59:20.860
to see it in a comp. I personally wouldn't want

00:59:20.860 --> 00:59:23.260
to see it in a comp either. I think it's kind

00:59:23.260 --> 00:59:26.159
of funny. Yeah. As long as it's not in World

00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:28.840
Cup, I think I'm okay with it. Okay. Well, because

00:59:28.840 --> 00:59:31.739
they said that at like French Nationals or something,

00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:35.239
he said. A rope swing? I mean, not like a full

00:59:35.239 --> 00:59:38.980
one, but I think I saw the... I have like a video

00:59:38.980 --> 00:59:40.940
on my Instagram about it. Oh, dude, that's hilarious.

00:59:41.320 --> 00:59:43.739
It wasn't like a whole rope swing, but there

00:59:43.739 --> 00:59:48.380
was, they do make the holds that have like tiny

00:59:48.380 --> 00:59:50.320
ropes on the end. I guess they're part of like

00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:53.539
the monkey set. I forget what whole brand. Yeah.

00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:56.139
But yeah. That's pretty sick. I think it's 360.

00:59:56.619 --> 00:59:59.460
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think it's hilarious.

00:59:59.960 --> 01:00:04.309
Yeah. I think that there's a place for that,

01:00:05.170 --> 01:00:14.610
but. Not in a generic comp climbing event. Like,

01:00:14.630 --> 01:00:19.519
national. Don't. You know what I mean? World

01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:24.679
Cup. Cut that shit out. Yeah. Local? Great. Yeah,

01:00:24.780 --> 01:00:26.019
that would be a lot of fun for local. We did

01:00:26.019 --> 01:00:30.699
a climbing comp where... Have you seen that big

01:00:30.699 --> 01:00:34.159
ass rotisserie climbing thing? Oh, yeah. Yeah,

01:00:34.179 --> 01:00:37.099
yeah. So there was a climb on that. That you're

01:00:37.099 --> 01:00:39.070
supposed to climb and then you just... do like

01:00:39.070 --> 01:00:42.710
a 30 -move go -around circuit. And instead of

01:00:42.710 --> 01:00:45.909
doing that, we just spin the rotisserie thing

01:00:45.909 --> 01:00:48.869
and then got on it and just jumped from the start

01:00:48.869 --> 01:00:52.190
to the finish. Oh, my God. And like going upside

01:00:52.190 --> 01:00:54.289
down and like the hardest part of it was trying

01:00:54.289 --> 01:00:56.530
to hold on. I think someone had a video of it.

01:00:56.630 --> 01:01:01.199
It is incredible. It's hilarious. If money was

01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:04.960
put on because of that route, we would be pissed.

01:01:05.739 --> 01:01:09.199
But just because it's like... doesn't really

01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:11.679
matter and it's kind of fun. I think it's great.

01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:16.019
Maybe if it's in a quali, I think it's all right.

01:01:16.039 --> 01:01:17.599
But in a final, I think it should be proper.

01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:24.579
There's a place. There's a time. But I don't

01:01:24.579 --> 01:01:27.420
think you should be, you shouldn't force a competitive

01:01:27.420 --> 01:01:32.829
result out of those. Obviously, now we see as

01:01:32.829 --> 01:01:37.230
gimmicky. As for those gimmicky features, for

01:01:37.230 --> 01:01:39.389
example, you know, dual text used to be seen

01:01:39.389 --> 01:01:41.599
as gimmick. Yeah, so, like, where do you draw

01:01:41.599 --> 01:01:43.860
the line? I mean, a lot of people would say this

01:01:43.860 --> 01:01:47.340
is too gimmicky. No moving parts. Okay, yeah.

01:01:47.619 --> 01:01:50.280
I think that's kind of where I draw my line.

01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:52.679
Okay, fair. No moving part. I think that's great.

01:01:54.489 --> 01:01:56.889
Different texture, whatever, right? You can put

01:01:56.889 --> 01:02:00.269
fake grass. You can put... Okay. Okay, okay,

01:02:00.269 --> 01:02:02.949
okay. That's a... No, I mean, let's do it. There's

01:02:02.949 --> 01:02:06.489
moss outside. And a top out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

01:02:06.630 --> 01:02:10.369
So it's like... I would understand if it's like,

01:02:10.510 --> 01:02:14.889
you know, if it's as long as it's solid and it

01:02:15.309 --> 01:02:18.690
can be the same for everybody. So if it's like

01:02:18.690 --> 01:02:20.929
jelly and you just rip it off or it's like something

01:02:20.929 --> 01:02:22.769
that like, you know, that would break apart a

01:02:22.769 --> 01:02:25.090
chassis or whatever, I wouldn't, I wouldn't enjoy

01:02:25.090 --> 01:02:28.170
that. Like sand, like don't, don't put sand on

01:02:28.170 --> 01:02:31.050
the climbing goal. Yeah. But as long as it's

01:02:31.050 --> 01:02:33.269
solid and there's no moving part, I think it's

01:02:33.269 --> 01:02:36.289
great. And I think it's. could be that's that's

01:02:36.289 --> 01:02:38.769
my line yeah i mean you said grass and i was

01:02:38.769 --> 01:02:40.630
almost like yeah i mean if you put like turf

01:02:40.630 --> 01:02:43.150
on there that's kind of like yeah it's like a

01:02:43.150 --> 01:02:46.530
mossy top out in seattle yeah it could be like

01:02:46.530 --> 01:02:49.710
a sloper and then instead of like using a sloper

01:02:49.710 --> 01:02:52.929
you just like grab on the grass yeah oh i think

01:02:52.929 --> 01:02:55.030
it'd be horrible oh i think that thing could

01:02:55.030 --> 01:02:57.250
be i think that's kind of moving a little bit

01:02:57.250 --> 01:02:59.949
so maybe that's like yeah i wouldn't It'd be

01:02:59.949 --> 01:03:02.690
hard because you can't keep it that consistent

01:03:02.690 --> 01:03:04.849
because at some point it would break off probably.

01:03:04.909 --> 01:03:09.570
Yeah, exactly. So maybe that could be the line,

01:03:09.590 --> 01:03:13.630
right? Moving parts. Okay, fair. So then let's

01:03:13.630 --> 01:03:15.309
go back to talking about the World Cups a bit.

01:03:15.389 --> 01:03:17.670
You've been in semis a few times in your world

01:03:17.670 --> 01:03:20.250
climbing career. You also had... like that really

01:03:20.250 --> 01:03:23.070
amazing result a couple years ago in Innsbruck,

01:03:23.210 --> 01:03:27.090
where you almost made finals in seventh. What

01:03:27.090 --> 01:03:29.550
do you think it takes to make semis versus finals?

01:03:30.329 --> 01:03:34.969
Making semis, you just need to execute well.

01:03:35.190 --> 01:03:38.289
You're going to be real, real strong, but at

01:03:38.289 --> 01:03:39.250
the end of the day, you're just going to execute

01:03:39.250 --> 01:03:41.269
well. None of those boulders are going to be

01:03:41.269 --> 01:03:43.170
hard enough where you can't do them. Obviously,

01:03:43.230 --> 01:03:44.869
there's going to be a few and stuff like that,

01:03:44.909 --> 01:03:47.690
but with enough time, most climbers, most competitors

01:03:47.690 --> 01:03:49.789
can do most of those boulders. Just be able to

01:03:49.789 --> 01:03:51.710
put that together and not feel the nerves and

01:03:51.710 --> 01:03:54.989
not let that mental game get into your head.

01:03:57.070 --> 01:04:01.030
Obviously, you know, for how much I pride myself

01:04:01.030 --> 01:04:03.550
of being a good competitor, that pressure gets

01:04:03.550 --> 01:04:06.250
to me. I feel nervous. I get on the wall and

01:04:06.250 --> 01:04:08.750
something goes wrong and I'm just, you know,

01:04:08.809 --> 01:04:12.449
I start losing it. I start losing focus. I start

01:04:12.449 --> 01:04:15.489
feeling fatigue or maybe I didn't eat enough

01:04:15.489 --> 01:04:17.110
or whatever it may be. Something always goes

01:04:17.110 --> 01:04:19.309
wrong. But quality to semi is essentially...

01:04:19.980 --> 01:04:24.210
almost perfect execution or very, very strong.

01:04:24.789 --> 01:04:27.449
Semi to final, I think you're going to have something

01:04:27.449 --> 01:04:32.420
special. Something that you're real good at and

01:04:32.420 --> 01:04:37.369
better than most in the world. Rather that be

01:04:37.369 --> 01:04:39.949
you're a very good slab climber or you're very

01:04:39.949 --> 01:04:46.010
good at coronation or you're very, very strong.

01:04:46.789 --> 01:04:55.599
Look back on when I did Innsbruck, 2024. The

01:04:55.599 --> 01:04:58.320
only reason why I held on for that long was because

01:04:58.320 --> 01:05:02.659
I was comfortable on dual text and I figured

01:05:02.659 --> 01:05:06.969
out the quarto and I'm good at slap. The only

01:05:06.969 --> 01:05:09.210
reason why I held on, right? If I was a little

01:05:09.210 --> 01:05:10.989
stronger, I would do number one. I would be like,

01:05:11.090 --> 01:05:12.889
could have, would have, should have, whatever.

01:05:13.809 --> 01:05:15.590
But I think you need to have something that you're

01:05:15.590 --> 01:05:18.630
quite special to happen because more often than

01:05:18.630 --> 01:05:23.460
not, it is going to be a two top, four zones

01:05:23.460 --> 01:05:27.960
round. to make it through to finals. Or maybe

01:05:28.340 --> 01:05:33.739
even less. And for eight or less people to do

01:05:33.739 --> 01:05:37.079
the boulders in five minutes with some of the

01:05:37.079 --> 01:05:39.519
best in the world, you could have something special.

01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:42.460
You could be someone that really put that mark

01:05:42.460 --> 01:05:45.769
up there. Unless, you know, it's just strength.

01:05:46.170 --> 01:05:48.010
But then at that strength, you just need to be

01:05:48.010 --> 01:05:50.670
really goddamn strong. And anyone is very goddamn

01:05:50.670 --> 01:05:53.369
strong. And you mentioned earlier that you felt

01:05:53.369 --> 01:05:55.570
like this year you haven't been performing super

01:05:55.570 --> 01:06:01.150
well. Do you have a reason you feel like that's

01:06:01.150 --> 01:06:03.570
the case? Or is it just like the rest of the

01:06:03.570 --> 01:06:05.949
field has, I don't know. The rest of the field

01:06:05.949 --> 01:06:07.989
has gotten a lot stronger. Everyone has gotten

01:06:07.989 --> 01:06:13.050
very, very strong. I injured myself in late 24,

01:06:13.309 --> 01:06:15.630
actually, in a proc. During warm -up, I blew

01:06:15.630 --> 01:06:19.769
out my MCL. Holy crap. Not blown, but I was able

01:06:19.769 --> 01:06:24.210
to... relatively get through the round and then

01:06:24.210 --> 01:06:26.170
from there everything start going downhill I

01:06:26.170 --> 01:06:30.679
start getting injuries that I never ever like

01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:35.340
felt before and then I had to make the gamble

01:06:35.340 --> 01:06:39.199
of will I keep training hard and hope I heal

01:06:39.199 --> 01:06:42.079
up for the next season or do I take a full break

01:06:42.079 --> 01:06:44.639
and take a full season off just so I can heal

01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:50.059
I chose to do the season and kept training and

01:06:50.059 --> 01:06:53.670
everything just one after another everything

01:06:53.670 --> 01:06:58.590
started hurting and just been hurting since 25,

01:06:58.809 --> 01:07:04.650
26 has just been battling trying to balance training

01:07:04.650 --> 01:07:07.909
and competing realistically on a grand scale

01:07:07.909 --> 01:07:10.449
looking back at it actually I should have just

01:07:10.449 --> 01:07:17.630
took 25 off or 26 off but I didn't and I'm paying

01:07:17.630 --> 01:07:20.699
the price It felt like I was still relatively

01:07:20.699 --> 01:07:22.980
close even though something is always tweaky.

01:07:23.300 --> 01:07:26.159
It shouldn't be an excuse of why I'm not performing.

01:07:26.940 --> 01:07:29.599
But also knowing that I can make semi without

01:07:29.599 --> 01:07:34.289
feeling my best. That obviously gets to me and

01:07:34.289 --> 01:07:36.349
that kind of turns to an ego like, oh, but I

01:07:36.349 --> 01:07:38.610
still can. Oh, I don't have to feel my best too.

01:07:38.750 --> 01:07:41.289
So maybe that turned into, oh, I'm not trying

01:07:41.289 --> 01:07:45.250
my hardest because I know I can feel meh and

01:07:45.250 --> 01:07:48.230
still make it through. So maybe there's a balance

01:07:48.230 --> 01:07:53.110
of like the ego and the, you know, my preparation

01:07:53.110 --> 01:07:57.239
that's not dialed or something that's just, you

01:07:57.239 --> 01:08:00.639
know, get in my head of like, oh, I know I can't.

01:08:00.639 --> 01:08:02.039
And now I have to like, that's kind of the same

01:08:02.039 --> 01:08:05.940
thing with like local comms. Sure, yeah. I think

01:08:05.940 --> 01:08:08.400
the pressure gets to me more than I like to admit.

01:08:09.269 --> 01:08:11.510
And the ego definitely gets to me more than I

01:08:11.510 --> 01:08:15.150
like to admit out loud. But I think that's a

01:08:15.150 --> 01:08:17.829
big part of it. And that's, I think that has,

01:08:18.170 --> 01:08:21.130
been my downfall i think i need to do something

01:08:21.130 --> 01:08:25.409
with like finding the joy of competition again

01:08:25.409 --> 01:08:29.229
rather than just trying to bruce force my way

01:08:29.229 --> 01:08:33.270
through you know like one thing that uh i came

01:08:33.270 --> 01:08:35.470
to realization with talking to my coach was that

01:08:35.470 --> 01:08:39.369
i've spent so many years climbing not to fall

01:08:39.369 --> 01:08:44.100
rather than climbing to top i've always looked

01:08:44.100 --> 01:08:45.819
down and be like i don't want to go over there

01:08:45.819 --> 01:08:48.060
rather than look it up and be like oh i wonder

01:08:48.060 --> 01:08:49.979
what's up there I guess, like, how do you feel

01:08:49.979 --> 01:08:52.800
about climbing in the future? Like, do you still,

01:08:52.960 --> 01:08:55.600
I mean, do you feel like it's fun? Do you enjoy

01:08:55.600 --> 01:09:01.000
it? Do you enjoy competing? I do. I do. I like

01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:04.260
competing. I certainly do like being in the spotlight,

01:09:04.380 --> 01:09:07.800
but I can't do that if I don't really climb for

01:09:07.800 --> 01:09:09.800
myself, you know? That just kind of sounds stupid,

01:09:09.880 --> 01:09:14.159
but it's just, like, there's only so much motivation

01:09:14.159 --> 01:09:17.579
that I can give myself and up to the obsession

01:09:17.579 --> 01:09:20.220
and the motivation. Another moment of dedication

01:09:20.220 --> 01:09:23.739
of how much I'm willing to push myself and get

01:09:23.739 --> 01:09:27.560
stronger and get better. I still love climbing.

01:09:28.619 --> 01:09:30.479
I'm never going to quit it for trail running

01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:34.619
ever. Yeah. No, I'm kidding. Love you, Sam. Yeah.

01:09:35.319 --> 01:09:42.279
But it's hard going through comp by comp, weekend

01:09:42.279 --> 01:09:46.409
after weekend, just not seeing the results that

01:09:46.409 --> 01:09:49.960
I would hope that shows the work that I've put

01:09:49.960 --> 01:09:54.060
in. you know all the coaches say trust the process

01:09:54.060 --> 01:09:57.420
and trust your training and sometimes i do and

01:09:57.420 --> 01:09:59.539
nothing comes of it so that kind of makes me

01:09:59.539 --> 01:10:02.699
question if the training is really what i'm if

01:10:02.699 --> 01:10:05.319
i'm training correctly or is there something

01:10:05.319 --> 01:10:07.260
else i'm supposed to be doing just kind of going

01:10:07.260 --> 01:10:09.479
back to the scratchbook and just trying to see

01:10:09.479 --> 01:10:11.399
what what went wrong not necessarily what went

01:10:11.399 --> 01:10:14.100
wrong but what i could improve yeah i was gonna

01:10:14.100 --> 01:10:17.220
ask this earlier but um Well, I mean, I guess

01:10:17.220 --> 01:10:20.460
your coach did show up. Has he been your coach

01:10:20.460 --> 01:10:24.199
since you started competing in the U .S.? I was

01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:28.039
on a different team for the first two years of

01:10:28.039 --> 01:10:31.739
moving to America. And then since 2018 is when

01:10:31.739 --> 01:10:34.680
he started coaching me. And he continues to do

01:10:34.680 --> 01:10:39.619
so ever since then. I don't necessarily have

01:10:39.619 --> 01:10:43.300
a session with him where I get feedback. I don't

01:10:43.300 --> 01:10:46.829
train, do weights with him every day. I coach

01:10:46.829 --> 01:10:50.550
alongside him as well. But every event, big event

01:10:50.550 --> 01:10:52.949
coming up, we would get together on a day where

01:10:52.949 --> 01:10:57.029
I would just kind of climb and I get inputs and

01:10:57.029 --> 01:10:59.529
we do made -ups and all the stuff like that,

01:10:59.670 --> 01:11:02.609
which is nice. But right now, I think he's playing

01:11:02.609 --> 01:11:07.180
more of a role as a mentor to me than just, you

01:11:07.369 --> 01:11:11.649
know, than a coach. Obviously, anyone can get

01:11:11.649 --> 01:11:15.300
anyone strong, right? You do the same. You do

01:11:15.300 --> 01:11:17.359
the workout that has already been studied and

01:11:17.359 --> 01:11:19.939
you will get strong. How do you get good and

01:11:19.939 --> 01:11:24.270
how do you find motivation to keep trading and

01:11:24.270 --> 01:11:26.050
keep pushing? I think that's one of the most

01:11:26.050 --> 01:11:27.989
important thing for being a coach is just to

01:11:27.989 --> 01:11:31.729
find that chemistry with the athletes that allows

01:11:31.729 --> 01:11:34.229
them, that too motivates them. And I think I

01:11:34.229 --> 01:11:38.329
believe him. I trust him. You know, I really,

01:11:38.449 --> 01:11:41.029
really respect him. And I think that's why he's

01:11:41.029 --> 01:11:43.390
a very effective coach for me. And I think that's

01:11:43.390 --> 01:11:45.390
why I'm still working with him and not just...

01:11:45.670 --> 01:11:48.590
by lifting and doing the plan that he's put up.

01:11:48.670 --> 01:11:51.550
But it's just having him as a mentor and talking

01:11:51.550 --> 01:11:55.449
to him and getting his feedback is very, very

01:11:55.449 --> 01:11:57.609
powerful. And I think that's enough. And I mean,

01:11:57.649 --> 01:12:01.930
certainly rank 30 something is not bad at all.

01:12:02.130 --> 01:12:06.710
No. It would be good to be in semis regularly

01:12:06.710 --> 01:12:09.529
and make the finals since you were so close that

01:12:09.529 --> 01:12:12.069
one time. But yeah, I mean, it's certainly not

01:12:12.069 --> 01:12:15.229
bad at all. Yeah. I'm happy with this year just

01:12:15.229 --> 01:12:18.170
because I'm getting more consistent. Yeah, exactly.

01:12:19.340 --> 01:12:23.989
Just, you know, on to the next. I'm always going

01:12:23.989 --> 01:12:26.350
to keep pushing. Just because I'm not succeeding

01:12:26.350 --> 01:12:28.289
now doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying. I'm

01:12:28.289 --> 01:12:30.210
going to keep trying until I can't anymore. And

01:12:30.210 --> 01:12:32.810
Salt Lake is coming up. Yeah. Do you set goals

01:12:32.810 --> 01:12:34.869
for each comp or do you have anything in mind

01:12:34.869 --> 01:12:37.710
for Salt Lake? Or does setting a goal kind of

01:12:37.710 --> 01:12:43.289
freak you out? I think my goal is to climb like

01:12:43.289 --> 01:12:47.899
myself. Really focus on, again, you know, climbing

01:12:47.899 --> 01:12:50.560
to top rather than climbing not to fall. I think

01:12:50.560 --> 01:12:53.619
that's kind of been my consistent goal for a

01:12:53.619 --> 01:12:56.800
little bit now. I kind of stopped putting numbers

01:12:56.800 --> 01:13:02.760
and like measurable things as my goal because

01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:05.680
I feel like that gets into my head. I'm just

01:13:05.680 --> 01:13:08.020
going to go out there and enjoy the atmosphere,

01:13:08.239 --> 01:13:12.100
enjoy the baseball stadium and climb some cool

01:13:12.100 --> 01:13:15.300
routes. Hopefully I get to climb more cool routes

01:13:15.300 --> 01:13:17.439
and hopefully I get to do another round of very

01:13:17.439 --> 01:13:20.479
cool routes, you know. I think that's just...

01:13:21.689 --> 01:13:24.390
But obviously I'm saying that now because this

01:13:24.390 --> 01:13:27.880
whole season I've felt very defeated. Obviously

01:13:27.880 --> 01:13:30.279
I want to make semi. It's the same goal as every

01:13:30.279 --> 01:13:35.250
other year. But because I want to make semi,

01:13:35.350 --> 01:13:38.350
there's definitely certain things that needs

01:13:38.350 --> 01:13:41.090
to happen for me to be able to do that. And maybe

01:13:41.090 --> 01:13:44.329
that's by not setting a goal. Or maybe that's

01:13:44.329 --> 01:13:46.270
to focus on something else. Or maybe that's to...

01:13:46.590 --> 01:13:48.810
You know, whatever it may be, you know, I still

01:13:48.810 --> 01:13:52.350
need to find the tools. I'm no perfect competitor

01:13:52.350 --> 01:13:56.260
by any means. So I'm still learning as we speak.

01:13:56.500 --> 01:13:59.260
Do you maybe feel like the whole like mental

01:13:59.260 --> 01:14:01.140
side of things is your biggest weakness then?

01:14:01.300 --> 01:14:04.460
I think it's my biggest strength, but also my

01:14:04.460 --> 01:14:07.960
biggest weakness as well. I'm a very emotional

01:14:07.960 --> 01:14:13.409
person on and off the wall. If I'm having a good

01:14:13.409 --> 01:14:16.390
day, I'm going to have a great day. But if I

01:14:16.390 --> 01:14:19.569
have a... bad day then oh that day will just

01:14:19.569 --> 01:14:22.430
keep crumbling down on me I think that's what

01:14:22.430 --> 01:14:25.920
I've noticed and it's kind of hard when you know

01:14:25.920 --> 01:14:28.659
you're just emotional about it maybe I don't

01:14:28.659 --> 01:14:33.500
like where maybe like I don't know I think that

01:14:33.500 --> 01:14:35.920
I just need to change my mindset on the way I

01:14:35.920 --> 01:14:38.460
feel and the way I perceive things so maybe I

01:14:38.460 --> 01:14:41.000
can hopefully control my emotion a little bit

01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:44.279
better but I'm a very very emotional climber

01:14:44.279 --> 01:14:48.069
and so you can see that by like if I'm having

01:14:48.069 --> 01:14:50.289
fun i'm smiling sometimes i'm just cruising through

01:14:50.289 --> 01:14:54.329
but yeah when i have to grit by my teeth and

01:14:54.329 --> 01:14:56.890
i just kind of maybe it gets a bit more difficult

01:14:56.890 --> 01:14:59.289
best of luck to you in salt lake i think thank

01:14:59.289 --> 01:15:01.689
you i'll be there so i'll be cheering you on

01:15:01.689 --> 01:15:03.949
and it'll be cool to see yeah yeah i'll try to

01:15:03.949 --> 01:15:06.029
look for everyone in the crowd it seems like

01:15:06.029 --> 01:15:09.689
you're super well connected in the climbing scene

01:15:09.689 --> 01:15:12.229
like you know a bunch of the top athletes um

01:15:12.229 --> 01:15:14.569
like from world climbing and everything like

01:15:14.569 --> 01:15:17.970
that um I've just been really curious lately,

01:15:18.170 --> 01:15:21.149
why do you think it's the case that the men's

01:15:21.149 --> 01:15:25.489
bouldering field is so like up and down? Whereas

01:15:25.489 --> 01:15:27.210
like on the women's side, you can kind of predict

01:15:27.210 --> 01:15:30.529
what the standings are going to be. And on the

01:15:30.529 --> 01:15:32.510
men's side, it seems like even if you are one

01:15:32.510 --> 01:15:35.989
of the top athletes, you could just like almost

01:15:35.989 --> 01:15:39.649
completely miss semis. At the end day, all we

01:15:39.649 --> 01:15:42.090
can do is really just make speculation. We don't

01:15:42.090 --> 01:15:45.369
really, none of us really know why. But the...

01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:48.739
Very obvious answer and basically just phrasing

01:15:48.739 --> 01:15:51.060
your question in different ways. Everyone in

01:15:51.060 --> 01:15:54.619
the men's field are very, very close in skill.

01:15:54.899 --> 01:15:58.140
There's a massive skill gap between the women's

01:15:58.140 --> 01:16:02.319
field with each other, the top girls, and the

01:16:02.579 --> 01:16:05.560
men's. The men's, there's a very, very small

01:16:05.560 --> 01:16:10.399
skill gap. Obviously, that's the obvious answer.

01:16:12.239 --> 01:16:13.819
I mean, it's hard to know looking from outside

01:16:13.819 --> 01:16:16.539
and just watching on a screen. That's fair, yeah.

01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:22.680
But I could make up whatever reason or theories

01:16:22.680 --> 01:16:28.359
I want to, but I really don't know why that's

01:16:28.359 --> 01:16:34.640
the case. Maybe because there's that ego of competitiveness

01:16:34.640 --> 01:16:39.010
that I want to win and we train together and

01:16:39.010 --> 01:16:42.270
hard and trying to beat each other. And maybe

01:16:42.270 --> 01:16:44.770
because... there's a lot more guys that compete.

01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:49.000
So we always have to try to beat each other and

01:16:49.000 --> 01:16:51.199
we would never let that happen. So everyone just

01:16:51.199 --> 01:16:54.539
kind of end up being around the same level. Maybe

01:16:54.539 --> 01:16:57.859
there are some girls that got really, really

01:16:57.859 --> 01:17:00.579
good really early on and then they start dominating

01:17:00.579 --> 01:17:03.960
the country and then no one else cared enough

01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:07.119
or wanted to put in that effort to try to beat

01:17:07.119 --> 01:17:11.989
that person or they're happy being second. And

01:17:11.989 --> 01:17:13.750
then instead of fighting for first, they started

01:17:13.750 --> 01:17:18.369
fighting for second. But also that's, again,

01:17:18.470 --> 01:17:21.649
speculation, right? Like, I can think of one

01:17:21.649 --> 01:17:24.710
thing that, I can think of one country, Australia.

01:17:25.590 --> 01:17:28.170
Oceana McKenzie is a light year ahead of the

01:17:28.170 --> 01:17:31.149
second place. The second place is Maya Stueck.

01:17:31.810 --> 01:17:33.770
I'm not saying that she doesn't train very hard.

01:17:34.270 --> 01:17:36.609
She's just, for some reason, just very, very

01:17:36.609 --> 01:17:39.229
far away from Oceana. And maybe because it's

01:17:39.229 --> 01:17:42.729
resources that Osh is able to go train around

01:17:42.729 --> 01:17:46.069
the world. She basically lives in either Innsbruck,

01:17:46.130 --> 01:17:50.250
Paris or Japan. Yeah. Makes a difference, I guess.

01:17:50.529 --> 01:17:55.390
Yeah. And Maya is just in Australia climbing

01:17:55.390 --> 01:17:58.930
on commercial sets. I don't know exactly what

01:17:58.930 --> 01:18:03.770
it is. I wish I could give you an answer, but

01:18:03.770 --> 01:18:07.289
I really don't know. I just know that from my

01:18:07.289 --> 01:18:09.859
own experience. From coaching the climbing team,

01:18:10.180 --> 01:18:12.380
the difference between what I see from the girl

01:18:12.380 --> 01:18:16.729
and what I see from the guy is that the guy will

01:18:16.729 --> 01:18:19.029
keep talking shit even though the other kid is

01:18:19.029 --> 01:18:21.409
so much better and they will keep trying. Okay,

01:18:21.449 --> 01:18:24.319
yeah. But the girls, if someone's much better

01:18:24.319 --> 01:18:25.819
than them, they're like, yeah, okay, but that's

01:18:25.819 --> 01:18:30.220
a person. I want to beat them, but that's a person.

01:18:30.579 --> 01:18:33.760
And the guy was like, yeah, but they're always

01:18:33.760 --> 01:18:35.960
blaming on themselves. Like, oh, I lost that

01:18:35.960 --> 01:18:38.500
comp because I messed up. There's always an excuse

01:18:38.500 --> 01:18:43.329
about them messing up. And then when some, when

01:18:43.460 --> 01:18:45.520
this girl won that, obviously she's much better.

01:18:45.619 --> 01:18:49.479
When that girl win, they're like, oh, but yeah,

01:18:49.619 --> 01:18:52.939
I messed up, but she's just much better. And

01:18:52.939 --> 01:18:55.439
that's what I've seen from the climbing team.

01:18:55.600 --> 01:18:57.180
I'm not saying that that's what it is on the

01:18:57.180 --> 01:19:00.039
World Cup circuit. Obviously there's still the

01:19:00.039 --> 01:19:01.960
competitive. It's like, oh, I want to win. I

01:19:01.960 --> 01:19:03.819
messed up. I want to win from the girl's side.

01:19:04.300 --> 01:19:09.020
I just see it more internalized rather than being.

01:19:10.250 --> 01:19:13.449
verbally expressed to the other side as well.

01:19:13.609 --> 01:19:16.949
So it's kind of like a lack of belief in yourself.

01:19:17.630 --> 01:19:19.729
Maybe it's the way they express themselves here.

01:19:20.210 --> 01:19:22.210
Obviously, everyone everywhere is going to be

01:19:22.210 --> 01:19:24.770
different. But that's what I've seen here. And

01:19:24.770 --> 01:19:28.130
I also think that one thing I've seen very commonly

01:19:28.130 --> 01:19:30.649
amongst the guys, athletes, is that they just

01:19:30.649 --> 01:19:33.949
talk so much shit. Yeah. There's just so much

01:19:33.949 --> 01:19:36.289
competitiveness going on. Obviously, a lot of

01:19:36.289 --> 01:19:39.409
it's friendly. in a joking way but there's always

01:19:39.409 --> 01:19:42.250
something obviously if someone jokingly say oh

01:19:42.250 --> 01:19:45.050
yeah I'm gonna beat you one day I'll laugh it

01:19:45.050 --> 01:19:46.750
off I don't really care much but I'm also going

01:19:46.750 --> 01:19:48.550
to make sure that they never that never happens

01:19:48.550 --> 01:19:53.449
okay yeah so it's maybe that's something I don't

01:19:53.449 --> 01:19:55.850
know what it is on the girl's side maybe that

01:19:55.850 --> 01:19:57.770
would be a good question to ask the next girl

01:19:57.770 --> 01:19:59.869
that comes on I mean I could see that because

01:19:59.869 --> 01:20:04.939
I do that as a lot as well like if someone if

01:20:04.939 --> 01:20:07.319
someone is like much better than me at climbing

01:20:07.319 --> 01:20:11.159
I'm never even gonna shoot for that as like a

01:20:11.159 --> 01:20:13.520
person to beat I'm just like well you know she's

01:20:13.520 --> 01:20:15.500
like over there and she's really good I don't

01:20:15.500 --> 01:20:18.659
really need like that's not my lane so I'm not

01:20:18.659 --> 01:20:21.979
gonna strive for that that seems like beyond

01:20:21.979 --> 01:20:24.699
my ability but I'm also like not that serious

01:20:24.699 --> 01:20:27.399
of a competitor so yeah big question mark for

01:20:27.399 --> 01:20:29.699
the the viewers to comment on what they think

01:20:29.699 --> 01:20:33.020
it is because I don't I I wish I knew that's

01:20:33.020 --> 01:20:36.560
a very I mean, it's an age -old question. We

01:20:36.560 --> 01:20:39.119
talked about it quite often, and it always just

01:20:39.119 --> 01:20:42.430
loops back to, we don't know. We couldn't really

01:20:42.430 --> 01:20:45.079
tell. Cool. Well, I think those were all my questions.

01:20:45.319 --> 01:20:47.579
There were a couple audience questions that came

01:20:47.579 --> 01:20:50.239
in. So we'll just go over those. I'm nervous

01:20:50.239 --> 01:20:53.060
for these, actually. No, nothing bad. The first

01:20:53.060 --> 01:20:57.079
one came from Bharat. So what is the wow factor

01:20:57.079 --> 01:20:59.399
needed to make finals? Whoa, that's actually

01:20:59.399 --> 01:21:01.920
a crazy question, actually. No one really ever

01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:03.800
talked about the wow factor to make in finals.

01:21:04.979 --> 01:21:07.960
Obviously, you know, one, be very, very strong.

01:21:08.340 --> 01:21:13.590
Two, incredibly good at slap. In a slap round

01:21:13.590 --> 01:21:16.909
where no one tops. Like Innsbruck, the way I

01:21:16.909 --> 01:21:18.649
did, I think there was four people that did the

01:21:18.649 --> 01:21:21.630
slap rather than everyone who zoned almost everything.

01:21:22.729 --> 01:21:26.289
Or, you know, Hannes, who are very, very good

01:21:26.289 --> 01:21:29.770
at hand slaps. And that allows him to stay very

01:21:29.770 --> 01:21:32.270
close because there's a lot of very handsy slap

01:21:32.270 --> 01:21:35.170
and he's very good at that. Incredible execution.

01:21:35.909 --> 01:21:38.329
And that's another wow factor that you're just

01:21:38.329 --> 01:21:42.649
able to execute very, very well. Let's take a

01:21:42.649 --> 01:21:46.949
look at... I don't know who would be an example

01:21:46.949 --> 01:21:50.770
of very good execution. Mishti. Mishti is an

01:21:50.770 --> 01:21:54.750
incredible... He's very good at executing. He's

01:21:54.750 --> 01:21:59.489
going to do it. He does it. Serato is the other

01:21:59.489 --> 01:22:01.789
wow factor. We don't know why he's good. Serato

01:22:01.789 --> 01:22:06.069
is just wow. Or you're just going to be stronger

01:22:06.069 --> 01:22:11.109
than everybody else. We'd look at Yanya. She's

01:22:11.109 --> 01:22:13.449
just... physically so much stronger than everyone

01:22:13.449 --> 01:22:15.909
else. Doyoon Lee, so much physically stronger

01:22:15.909 --> 01:22:20.069
than everyone else. And I'm obviously, you know,

01:22:20.149 --> 01:22:23.350
naming a lot more guys because that's where I'm

01:22:23.350 --> 01:22:25.470
more familiar. That's where I'm comfortable feeling

01:22:25.470 --> 01:22:28.229
making claims. But I think those are the five

01:22:28.229 --> 01:22:32.609
big factors that are like, whoa, like you're

01:22:32.609 --> 01:22:36.930
incredible. Maybe there's a few more that I can't

01:22:36.930 --> 01:22:39.229
think of right now, but I think those are the

01:22:39.229 --> 01:22:42.420
ones that are... That's the one that gets brought

01:22:42.420 --> 01:22:45.340
up a lot. That's like, oh, okay, this person

01:22:45.340 --> 01:22:48.600
just made finals. I think, was it Addy Barks

01:22:48.600 --> 01:22:51.560
made finals in his first World Cup ever? Yeah.

01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:55.300
In China. And we've tried the round, and he got

01:22:55.300 --> 01:22:58.560
absolutely smacked in the finals, but he made

01:22:58.560 --> 01:23:01.399
it to finals. We were looking at the final semi

01:23:01.399 --> 01:23:04.619
-round, and everyone was looking at it. Easy

01:23:04.619 --> 01:23:09.840
Kodo. Meh slap. That kind of doesn't really make

01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:16.920
a difference. really hard power climb and then

01:23:16.920 --> 01:23:19.000
the other one that you can power through as well

01:23:19.000 --> 01:23:24.659
so now that you have two and a half maybe two

01:23:24.659 --> 01:23:28.119
and the other two that's like relatively okay

01:23:28.119 --> 01:23:30.739
you know then you have that kind of round and

01:23:30.739 --> 01:23:33.899
you are strong enough you'll make it if it was

01:23:33.899 --> 01:23:38.159
instead of if if the power boulders were a little

01:23:38.159 --> 01:23:43.529
easier and the slab was slightly easier, so it

01:23:43.529 --> 01:23:46.489
matters more, so more people might top it, I

01:23:46.489 --> 01:23:47.970
think it would be a completely different outcome.

01:23:48.489 --> 01:23:50.289
So, again, at the end of the day, you kind of

01:23:50.289 --> 01:23:53.250
got to get a little lucky, unless you, you know,

01:23:53.310 --> 01:23:55.609
the three people that made every single goddamn

01:23:55.609 --> 01:23:57.989
finals this year. Oh, are there three people?

01:23:58.270 --> 01:24:02.350
I think there's... I can think of Osh, Serato,

01:24:02.529 --> 01:24:05.989
and I think for the girls, Osh is the only one

01:24:05.989 --> 01:24:09.569
who's made every single finals. For the guys...

01:24:09.890 --> 01:24:13.229
Yeah, for the guys, I think there's maybe another

01:24:13.229 --> 01:24:17.720
person, but I could be wrong. Do you think maybe...

01:24:17.720 --> 01:24:22.550
Did Annie make every finals? No, I think it's

01:24:22.550 --> 01:24:25.310
just Osh. I was pretty psyched for her. I was

01:24:25.310 --> 01:24:28.470
telling her about it. I want to say Doyeon, but

01:24:28.470 --> 01:24:31.029
no, not Doyeon. So two. Only two people made

01:24:31.029 --> 01:24:32.890
every single finals. Wow, really? Interesting.

01:24:33.130 --> 01:24:38.890
It's Serato and... Yeah. Serato and Osh. Wow.

01:24:39.069 --> 01:24:41.630
Wow. I had no idea. That's crazy. That's impressive.

01:24:41.869 --> 01:24:44.829
I mean, every final is crazy, you know? I mean,

01:24:44.829 --> 01:24:46.970
it's obviously like a huge deal to, you know,

01:24:46.970 --> 01:24:50.189
get podium or get gold. But that's actually,

01:24:50.329 --> 01:24:54.569
yeah, that's quite an impressive feat. Yeah.

01:24:54.850 --> 01:25:00.109
We remember the first time, obviously, you know,

01:25:00.130 --> 01:25:04.630
Yanya dominated. So I immediately, like, hired

01:25:04.630 --> 01:25:07.369
the bar for... all female competitor to beat

01:25:07.369 --> 01:25:10.789
uh but the closest thing to that kind of glory

01:25:10.789 --> 01:25:15.390
that we the male had was yoshiyuki making every

01:25:15.390 --> 01:25:18.109
singles finals and we were like oh my god he

01:25:18.109 --> 01:25:22.029
is just he's god he's him he's doing it uh and

01:25:22.029 --> 01:25:24.670
then obviously he fell off but or just the japanese

01:25:24.670 --> 01:25:27.489
team got really hard to make uh but that was

01:25:27.489 --> 01:25:31.710
like wow and then i think last year mishti made

01:25:31.710 --> 01:25:35.399
every finals I want to say, and Serato, Mishti.

01:25:37.369 --> 01:25:40.609
I think those were the only two. This year, he

01:25:40.609 --> 01:25:43.710
had a few hiccups, but... Okay, well, let's hope

01:25:43.710 --> 01:25:48.289
for Serato gold again. No, I want it. You guys

01:25:48.289 --> 01:25:51.069
will have such a person to look up to. Everyone

01:25:51.069 --> 01:25:54.170
wants it, you know? But, oh, I know, okay, I

01:25:54.170 --> 01:25:56.289
know everyone, this is actually a hot take and

01:25:56.289 --> 01:26:01.060
can totally clip. I want Serato to win. All of

01:26:01.060 --> 01:26:04.270
it. And not because I want it to be predictable

01:26:04.270 --> 01:26:06.850
and boring for the sport, but we are watching

01:26:06.850 --> 01:26:10.609
history being made. It would be so brutal to

01:26:10.609 --> 01:26:14.300
be so close and yet so far. Because I don't know

01:26:14.300 --> 01:26:16.460
if he's going to have another chance. Yeah. Like

01:26:16.460 --> 01:26:18.220
the sport's going to get so developed. It's going

01:26:18.220 --> 01:26:19.539
to be so much harder. The center is going to

01:26:19.539 --> 01:26:23.359
make sure that doesn't happen again. And I really

01:26:23.359 --> 01:26:25.539
want to watch this history to just be able to

01:26:25.539 --> 01:26:29.720
say this dude was so dominated. I was there to

01:26:29.720 --> 01:26:32.829
witness it. If you were in finals, would you

01:26:32.829 --> 01:26:37.489
let him win? No. I'm taking it. If I am in finals,

01:26:37.569 --> 01:26:39.569
I'm doing anything and everything in my power

01:26:39.569 --> 01:26:45.350
to make sure I win. But if it's not one of the

01:26:45.350 --> 01:26:49.010
people that I fully root for, I want it to be

01:26:49.010 --> 01:26:53.409
Serato. Okay. I just want to see this history

01:26:53.409 --> 01:26:54.989
being made. I want it to be written down in a

01:26:54.989 --> 01:26:58.420
history book. So you don't think the other competitors

01:26:58.420 --> 01:27:00.520
will go easy on him just because they want to

01:27:00.520 --> 01:27:03.119
see it happen? No, no, no. No one is going easy

01:27:03.119 --> 01:27:06.760
on him. But if, God forbid, everyone else has

01:27:06.760 --> 01:27:11.779
had a bad day, I do want it to be him rather

01:27:11.779 --> 01:27:15.819
than an unlucky thing that he just couldn't do.

01:27:16.039 --> 01:27:19.260
Do you think people will be mad if someone else

01:27:19.260 --> 01:27:23.079
gets gold? Like the viewers or the competitors?

01:27:23.500 --> 01:27:26.539
The viewers. Will there be less celebration because

01:27:26.539 --> 01:27:30.260
someone else won? And then will it feel like

01:27:30.260 --> 01:27:32.920
shit to be that person? I just think that it

01:27:32.920 --> 01:27:36.279
would suck. It would totally suck being that

01:27:36.279 --> 01:27:40.119
person if there's less celebration. I don't think

01:27:40.119 --> 01:27:44.449
that would be a thing. I think the climbers would

01:27:44.449 --> 01:27:46.470
be pretty psyched. That's like, oh my God, you

01:27:46.470 --> 01:27:52.180
actually broke the streak at the year of... this

01:27:52.180 --> 01:27:54.560
kid you know like this kid is having an incredible

01:27:54.560 --> 01:27:57.699
year and you were the one you're the one person

01:27:57.699 --> 01:28:01.199
that able to even get that uh i think it would

01:28:01.199 --> 01:28:03.460
be pretty psyched but we're psyched nonetheless

01:28:03.460 --> 01:28:06.180
i think i'll be happy either way for the viewer

01:28:06.180 --> 01:28:10.270
i think i think that would be the cerato's fanboys

01:28:10.270 --> 01:28:14.829
and fangirls that are just like damn i was really

01:28:14.829 --> 01:28:17.329
hoping for that you know and maybe like weren't

01:28:17.329 --> 01:28:20.250
be as psyched and as like enthusiastic about

01:28:20.250 --> 01:28:26.180
like the another person winning But I just hope

01:28:26.180 --> 01:28:29.000
it doesn't happen. I just hope that whoever wins,

01:28:29.119 --> 01:28:30.680
that it's their best day and they should win.

01:28:32.960 --> 01:28:35.500
Okay, well, we'll see. It'll be a good end to

01:28:35.500 --> 01:28:38.220
the season. I think it will be good, yeah. Okay,

01:28:38.260 --> 01:28:40.680
so then the last question comes from Santana

01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:43.520
Pastores. Oh, I love Santana. We used to climb

01:28:43.520 --> 01:28:47.420
together. He coached for the Brooklyn Bouldering

01:28:47.420 --> 01:28:49.880
Project. Oh, okay. He was a climbing team. He

01:28:49.880 --> 01:28:52.579
used to live in Seattle. We climbed together

01:28:52.579 --> 01:28:54.880
all the time. Yeah, good buddy of mine. He asked,

01:28:54.979 --> 01:28:56.819
what area of competition climbing is the most

01:28:56.819 --> 01:29:01.970
underdeveloped? Underdeveloped? I think everyone's

01:29:01.970 --> 01:29:07.479
stuck at slap. I think that's one thing that's

01:29:07.479 --> 01:29:09.380
very, very underdeveloped. I think people are

01:29:09.380 --> 01:29:14.000
a lot stronger than they are good at slap. Obviously,

01:29:14.060 --> 01:29:15.539
I can't really say that too much because I'm

01:29:15.539 --> 01:29:18.800
not setting every slap in the world. But I think

01:29:18.800 --> 01:29:21.340
the no hand slap are still very underexplored.

01:29:22.260 --> 01:29:24.560
The French are doing that very well with all

01:29:24.560 --> 01:29:27.220
their no -hands stuff. But I think that even

01:29:27.220 --> 01:29:29.159
with that, it can be pushed a little farther.

01:29:29.640 --> 01:29:32.079
And it can be pushed. There are more room to

01:29:32.079 --> 01:29:36.899
push that than they are in... I guess you can

01:29:36.899 --> 01:29:39.260
always just get stronger. And at a certain point

01:29:39.260 --> 01:29:43.930
in slap, you will like... It would just be way

01:29:43.930 --> 01:29:46.630
too hard. It was just like physically, it just

01:29:46.630 --> 01:29:48.890
wouldn't make sense. And it wouldn't be possible

01:29:48.890 --> 01:29:52.430
physically to do a thinner slap or like a harder...

01:29:52.920 --> 01:29:57.829
But I think that slab has so much room to grow

01:29:57.829 --> 01:30:00.970
where you compare that to power. It's just like,

01:30:01.050 --> 01:30:03.970
yeah, you can only set so hard. People can only

01:30:03.970 --> 01:30:10.510
climb so high. But I think the training slab

01:30:10.510 --> 01:30:17.260
in session are way, way harder than a comp slab.

01:30:18.579 --> 01:30:21.600
I think there could be a few things that could

01:30:21.600 --> 01:30:23.079
be explored. I think that's one thing that I

01:30:23.079 --> 01:30:26.649
would say. But other than that, I think this

01:30:26.649 --> 01:30:31.149
past two years, we've explored so much in calm

01:30:31.149 --> 01:30:35.250
climbing. That, I think, is very, very interesting.

01:30:35.390 --> 01:30:36.510
You know, there's a lot of movement that has

01:30:36.510 --> 01:30:40.670
been set. There's a goddamn slider that has been

01:30:40.670 --> 01:30:43.569
set. You know, like, there's stuff like that.

01:30:43.670 --> 01:30:45.770
There's a bunch of STEM -y thing that doesn't

01:30:45.770 --> 01:30:48.789
even look like climbing anymore. Like, I think

01:30:48.789 --> 01:30:51.729
the Sprout Setters are doing a very good job

01:30:51.729 --> 01:30:53.649
in exploring the movements. what it could be,

01:30:53.670 --> 01:30:56.229
you know. At this point, 360 is boring to watch.

01:30:56.449 --> 01:30:58.350
It's not boring to watch, but it's like, it's

01:30:58.350 --> 01:31:00.750
common to see now. People can now see what's

01:31:00.750 --> 01:31:02.729
a 360 supposed to be. All the paddles are getting

01:31:02.729 --> 01:31:05.869
lame. All the lache down the feet. It's like,

01:31:05.890 --> 01:31:08.510
kind of old sport, but just slow, methodical

01:31:08.510 --> 01:31:11.869
slap is still one thing that's missing. That

01:31:11.869 --> 01:31:15.189
I haven't seen as often as like, fucking like,

01:31:15.380 --> 01:31:18.739
cranking down on small crimp slaps, which is

01:31:18.739 --> 01:31:21.449
another. thing as well i just i don't know if

01:31:21.449 --> 01:31:23.430
that's like the most fun to watch like someone

01:31:23.430 --> 01:31:26.569
just yeah i know for a long time but absolutely

01:31:26.569 --> 01:31:29.029
hate it yeah well i think those are all the questions

01:31:29.029 --> 01:31:31.869
i had then um thanks for joining me today yeah

01:31:31.869 --> 01:31:33.909
is there anything else you want to shout out

01:31:33.909 --> 01:31:36.569
or like last minute words of wisdom climb hard

01:31:36.569 --> 01:31:40.010
keep climbing this whole sports isn't is not

01:31:40.010 --> 01:31:44.489
going to grow by all the athletes it's for everyone

01:31:45.010 --> 01:31:47.189
everyone doing everyone watching everyone participating

01:31:47.189 --> 01:31:49.189
in it everyone's organizing all the gym owners

01:31:49.189 --> 01:31:52.449
everyone gonna help and be a part of this sport

01:31:52.449 --> 01:31:55.810
to allow it to grow as much as possible and this

01:31:55.810 --> 01:31:59.789
is i think it's gonna be better for the athletes

01:31:59.789 --> 01:32:01.390
it's gonna be better for the gym owners it's

01:32:01.390 --> 01:32:06.029
gonna be better for just the casual um climbers

01:32:06.029 --> 01:32:08.029
as well i think this is gonna be better for everyone

01:32:08.029 --> 01:32:12.180
so i think the faith of this sport growing is

01:32:12.180 --> 01:32:14.760
up to all of us to make it happen and i'm excited

01:32:14.760 --> 01:32:17.699
to see what you know the years ahead of us gonna

01:32:17.699 --> 01:32:19.939
bring awesome and do you want to let people know

01:32:19.939 --> 01:32:22.520
where they can find you uh yeah um my instagram

01:32:22.520 --> 01:32:28.479
is r .i ardch .i and that's the only social media

01:32:28.479 --> 01:32:31.819
that i don't check so okay great i haven't don't

01:32:31.819 --> 01:32:35.720
check okay wonderful Well, thank you again. And

01:32:35.720 --> 01:32:37.079
it was awesome to talk to you. Thank you, Jenny.

01:32:37.199 --> 01:32:39.600
I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to this

01:32:39.600 --> 01:32:41.600
episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.

01:32:42.279 --> 01:32:44.619
If you've been enjoying the podcast, I would

01:32:44.619 --> 01:32:47.079
appreciate if you like it on YouTube or rate

01:32:47.079 --> 01:32:50.060
it on your podcasting platform. And please leave

01:32:50.060 --> 01:32:52.779
a comment or reach out at any time if you have

01:32:52.779 --> 01:32:55.340
any thoughts. I try to read all of the messages.

01:32:56.350 --> 01:32:58.689
If you want to continue the discussion, join

01:32:58.689 --> 01:33:01.550
the free competition climbing discord where we

01:33:01.550 --> 01:33:04.829
chat live during the World Series comps and talk

01:33:04.829 --> 01:33:07.630
all things climbing. The link is in the description

01:33:07.630 --> 01:33:09.250
and see you next time!