68: Charlie Schreiber, Paradigm Coaching Founder

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Maybe I was, you know, quote unquote being used,

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but it felt like a symbiotic relationship. You

00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:07.080
know, it's this dude like taking my blood and

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doing weird stuff with my blood. Like, I don't

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know. Number one, let them eat spray. That is

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like, that is feed. If you have kids that you're

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coaching, feed them a spray wall diet. That is

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their 50 % of their diet should be spray wall.

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I think that people have to realize that V17

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is not that hard. If you start at a young age.

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When a kid walks in the gym and they hear, dude,

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dude, come check this out. I set this for you.

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You know what fireworks go off in a child? It's

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never give up on a kid. Even if they seem like

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they don't like the sport and it's not clicking,

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never give up. Welcome to another episode of

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the That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your

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host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my

00:00:48.850 --> 00:00:51.670
guest for today, Charlie Schreiber. Charlie is

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the founder of Paradigm Climbing, and he has

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been coaching climbing athletes from the beginner

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to elite level for over 17 years. In this episode,

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we'll hear about a suspicious supplement sponsorship

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he had when he was a kid, what his World Cup

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experience was like back in the day, why he thinks

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competition climbing has turned way too much

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into an not real climbing, and of course, everything

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coaching related. I hope you enjoy this episode

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with Charlie. Please pardon this brief intermission,

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but let me tell you about Mad Rock's Remora Pro.

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Now back to the show. How are you doing today?

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I'm good. I've got a big old busy day today and

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I'm just at the The start of it, I've got 280.

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Hold on. It's actually more than that. Oh, no.

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280 messages to go through. Jeez. 13 programs

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to write. This morning I did my social media

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and my comment responses, my DM responses, and

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my emails. I've been going since 7. Wow. Yeah.

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So I've got a full day ahead. That's a lot. We

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started early today as well. Oh yeah. And it

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used to be so much worse. I was working with

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194 people at the peak. Oh my God. And yeah,

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it was too much. Now we're down to, I think like

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115. I haven't been letting people sign up for

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a little over a year now. Wow. Yeah. I thought

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it was going to drop fast, but people don't leave.

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Oh, no. Which is good. It's great. It hurts to

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break up with people and tell them you can't

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sign up again. Well, actually, to be completely

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fair, I did stop accepting anyone to re -enroll.

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I was going to actually make a one -time exception

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for an athlete who I just love working with her.

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But I have to get to the next level of being

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able to help more people. And I can't do that

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while I'm helping a fixed amount of people. And

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so I did in the beginning not let the first couple

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of people come back on because they required

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much more attention. They're just high level

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competitors and I love working with them, but

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they just take so much more time. And that's,

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that's the job. And that's the job I love doing,

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but you can only, you know, it's like Roman Krasnick

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is, you know, like the best coach on the planet

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potentially. He works with the Slovenian team

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and that's it. And so he helps one or a couple

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of people as opposed to somebody that can create

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a ton of programming and guidance and mentorship

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and market that so that you can, my goal is to

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basically make it so I have an, like a whole

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world that someone can enter and just be fostered

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from day one climber. to get as far as they want,

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never doing the wrong thing, understanding the

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exact right way to train and understand the world

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of training and climbing and progression and

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sports science, your body, your mind, all of

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it. And it takes a lot of work to get to that

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point to help millions. That's what I want to

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do. We'll definitely get into what is training

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the wrong way maybe a bit later. I was just thinking

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about what you were saying about Roman and training

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Yanya. And I guess I kind of wonder, like, how

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much do you think is actually coming from his

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coaching versus if Yanya trained with any coach,

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she would still be that good? No way to tell.

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Yeah. No way to know. I don't know what goes

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on behind those scenes. I wish I did. But, you

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know, I think that what you are alluding to is.

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I'd say 95%. There's that correlation of athlete

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being on the trajectory that they're on, and

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then you add the variable of coach. Of course,

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a bad coach can tank you. You can be convinced

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to do the wrong thing, and then you get hurt.

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That's the furthest end of the spectrum. What

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I try to instill in all my athletes, and this

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is what Yanya is, is that a champion becomes

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a champion. A champion is made way before they

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become a champion. And the best in our sport

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were destined to get there because they had the

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right habits. They had the right discipline,

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mindset, focus, people around them, environment.

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I mean, all those things are both internal. and

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externals that they got lucky with. But the internals

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are really what truly make you reach your potential

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or not. And you can have all the best stuff,

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but if you just can't stop climbing when you

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should stop climbing, you'll never get to where

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you could otherwise get. Yeah, I'm sure he probably

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has to hold her back quite a lot. Before we get

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too deep into your philosophy, let's hear a little

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bit more about your background of how you got

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into climbing and then a bit of competing and

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then finally landing on coaching. Sure. I was

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a jock. I was on all sports teams. Baseball and

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basketball were my big ones. And baseball, especially,

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I was on four teams, playing on at least two

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teams all year round. Thought that's what I was

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going to go to college for. Wanted to be in the

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MLB. And I also skated on the side because I

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just loved, I had ADHD. I have ADHD and just

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love the idea of not having to stand there and

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wait for the game to come to me and go get the

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game, be in the game whenever I wanted. Skating

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was like that. And it's also endless variety.

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You have so many different styles of things you

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can do, different tricks anywhere. Every time

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you go to any, gap or stairs or whatever. It's

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always different. And I loved that. And I was

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driving with my parents on the highway. And I

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remember there was an old skate park that was

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attached to my baseball facility that I train

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at. And I asked him if I could go in and get

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a new helmet because I needed one. And I went

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in there and it was no longer a skate park. It

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was a rock climbing gym, the Gravity Vault in

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Upper Sal River. And I just, in that moment,

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I saw those walls. And I've never, I had never

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felt that feeling. And I've never felt it since

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that it was just the most unbelievable awakening

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I had ever experienced. It was the coolest thing

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I ever, cool is a horrible way of describing

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it. It was like, it felt like I discovered another

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planet that I was actually meant to live on that

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planet. And I had always been on the wrong planet.

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That's really what it felt like. And I asked

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him to try it. they let me do two walk -ins in

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a row, which was two, two climbs. And I was like,

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I need to come back. Came back for every day

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for two weeks straight. And then they wouldn't

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let me, my skin was all ripped up. I had tape

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all over my hands and they wouldn't let me do

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it by a day pass again, because they forced me

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to take a rest day. The people at the climbing

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gym. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And then, well,

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I think they just like. They said, you need to

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take a rest day. You can't keep coming in. You're

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going to get hurt. My mom was like, oh, okay,

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well then let's just not do that. I'm sure she

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had something else to do. I joined the team and

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have not lost that same psych. I lost that psych

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for one, a single two -hour period in my entire

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20 years of climbing and gained it right back.

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You joined the competition team then? Yes. Oh,

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yeah. Wow, after two weeks. No, no, no. I joined

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the intermediate team. And then went up to the

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advanced team the next month and was on that

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team for like maybe four months and then made

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it onto the competitive team. I was lucky with,

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yeah, it was really fast. I knew a kid that was

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on the competitive team when I joined that intermediate

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team. He was actually my neighbor's good friend

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from his school. It's crazy that this kid also

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climbed. And I just, you know, went in and climbed

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with him a couple times and had that. really

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strong climber to chase and i was competitive

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because i grew up in competitive sports and we

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were good friends but i definitely wanted to

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catch him and caught him passed him and then

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there were two kids in my age category uh in

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the state of actually one was in new jersey and

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one was in new york like an hour away and they

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had placed uh first and second at nationals in

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two different years and those kids were incredibly

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strong and skilled and that's who i started hanging

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out with and that's who i started chasing and

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then i caught them and and then i started doing

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open comps when i was 16 and started winning

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some when i was 17 and then won a lot of it was

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probably like 30 of the open comps i would i

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would win in uh like that you know the east coast

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area for like a three year period and had one

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year where i was winning like almost every single

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one And then got hurt when I won the tri -state

00:11:26.110 --> 00:11:29.950
championship. And I went to the World Cups because

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I placed well enough at nationals. And then came

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back. I was trying to make the US team for the

00:11:34.710 --> 00:11:36.889
Olympics. And I got a big sponsor that was paying

00:11:36.889 --> 00:11:40.090
me $2 ,000 a month to train for that. Oh, that

00:11:40.090 --> 00:11:42.870
is not bad at all. Yeah, it was great because

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I was a full -time setter. And that was the thing.

00:11:45.830 --> 00:11:48.929
That's actually a crazy side quest story of how

00:11:48.929 --> 00:11:51.289
I got that sponsorship. Do you want to get into

00:11:51.289 --> 00:11:54.340
it? Yeah, it's actually really wild. Maybe some

00:11:54.340 --> 00:11:56.759
people can learn from it. Yeah. Okay. This is

00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:01.600
a good story for sure. There was this guy whose

00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.500
name was Van Merkle. I'm just going to name drop

00:12:04.500 --> 00:12:07.399
him full on. And I worked at a Ninja Warrior

00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:09.399
gym. It was called High Exposure. It was Ninja

00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:11.399
Warrior and climbing. That's where I started

00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:14.679
coaching Adam Shahar and Austin Hoyt. They both

00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:17.100
came to the gym because it was Ninja Warrior.

00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:20.659
And then their first day climbing was with me.

00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:25.340
Yeah. And then I got a chance. That was why I'm

00:12:25.340 --> 00:12:27.440
so close with those kids. That was their first

00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:29.639
day climbing, ran their tryout, coached them

00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.850
for their first four years. And yeah, anyway,

00:12:33.009 --> 00:12:35.269
so I'm there and I'm in the best shape of my

00:12:35.269 --> 00:12:37.330
life. I had also just gone on the American Ninja

00:12:37.330 --> 00:12:39.929
Warrior show, was training with Joe Moravsky.

00:12:40.429 --> 00:12:43.929
And I know it was wild time. And this guy comes

00:12:43.929 --> 00:12:46.610
and he just wants to get up the warped wall and

00:12:46.610 --> 00:12:48.269
do the salmon ladder. It was like a long -term

00:12:48.269 --> 00:12:50.710
goal of his. So day one, I get him up the warped

00:12:50.710 --> 00:12:55.110
wall. This guy tips me $500 for an hour lesson

00:12:55.110 --> 00:12:57.330
because I got him up the wall. I was like, whoa.

00:12:57.450 --> 00:13:00.590
And he's from Ohio. I think Ohio. Yeah, he's

00:13:00.590 --> 00:13:03.250
from Ohio. And he flew there, flew to the gym

00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:06.049
just to take this lesson. So he goes home and

00:13:06.049 --> 00:13:08.909
then he flies back the next month. And I had

00:13:08.909 --> 00:13:11.149
been telling him about my dreams to make it to

00:13:11.149 --> 00:13:13.809
the Olympics, but I'm setting, you know, I was

00:13:13.809 --> 00:13:16.590
the only setter of the gym. I was head setting

00:13:16.590 --> 00:13:20.110
this big climbing gym by myself, setting four

00:13:20.110 --> 00:13:22.539
days a week. For about, it was like usually like

00:13:22.539 --> 00:13:27.409
30 -ish hours I would be setting for. And then

00:13:27.409 --> 00:13:29.529
I would coach afterwards. It's a really busy

00:13:29.529 --> 00:13:32.870
schedule. I loved it though. Love, love setting.

00:13:33.070 --> 00:13:35.830
I didn't realize that you were insane. Yeah.

00:13:36.110 --> 00:13:37.649
When I first talked to you. The only reason I've

00:13:37.649 --> 00:13:40.909
gotten here. Yeah. Work. Yeah. Yeah. Just hours

00:13:40.909 --> 00:13:45.330
of work. And so he comes back and he brings me

00:13:45.330 --> 00:13:47.809
this e -stim, which I still have and will still

00:13:47.809 --> 00:13:50.070
use occasionally. It's like a 500 something dollar

00:13:50.070 --> 00:13:52.750
e -stim. And tells me he wants to get me up the,

00:13:52.830 --> 00:13:55.330
he wants to do the salmon ladder. Cause we hadn't

00:13:55.330 --> 00:13:56.730
been able to do it that first day. Just did the

00:13:56.730 --> 00:13:59.330
warp wall, get them up that. And he says, okay,

00:13:59.429 --> 00:14:01.470
so here's, here's another tip for today. Tips

00:14:01.470 --> 00:14:06.210
me $750 now. I'm like, God, what is this guy

00:14:06.210 --> 00:14:09.570
doing? He's like, I also want to make a proposal

00:14:09.570 --> 00:14:13.759
to you. I will. uh what i do is i'm yes i'm a

00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.320
chiropractor but i run a health agency in which

00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:18.899
we bring people in we evaluate their blood their

00:14:18.899 --> 00:14:22.120
urine their stool and other things and then we

00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:27.259
give them like pills supplements and vitamins

00:14:27.259 --> 00:14:30.240
and all these things to get your blood and you

00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.340
know everything correct you know your vitals

00:14:33.340 --> 00:14:35.620
will look great you won't have any imbalances

00:14:35.620 --> 00:14:39.519
so he did that for me and the deal was he'll

00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:43.029
do that for me And he'll pay me $2 ,000 a month.

00:14:43.169 --> 00:14:46.970
So I don't have to set as much. And all in return

00:14:46.970 --> 00:14:50.750
to go on his podcast and to do it, basically

00:14:50.750 --> 00:14:54.210
be a case study for his work. So he did this

00:14:54.210 --> 00:14:56.269
for me. My wife and I called them Merkle bucks

00:14:56.269 --> 00:15:00.049
because I was just making, it was crazy. And

00:15:00.049 --> 00:15:03.029
I upped the training and I started training for

00:15:03.029 --> 00:15:06.470
sport and speed, getting my time back below where

00:15:06.470 --> 00:15:09.139
I was when I was a youth speed climber. which

00:15:09.139 --> 00:15:13.549
I did at nationals a couple of years. And I was

00:15:13.549 --> 00:15:18.970
feeling great. And I got hurt on like the, like

00:15:18.970 --> 00:15:21.750
maybe the last, I think it was month of training

00:15:21.750 --> 00:15:24.710
before I was deloading for open nationals for

00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:28.870
sport. And I messed up my elbow. I got this strain,

00:15:28.909 --> 00:15:30.889
my collateral ligament pretty bad. I think it

00:15:30.889 --> 00:15:32.889
was a grade two strain because I felt it go.

00:15:33.029 --> 00:15:36.210
And it was my first big injury. And I told him

00:15:36.210 --> 00:15:38.690
that I didn't want to go to nationals because

00:15:38.690 --> 00:15:41.230
I didn't want to go and just show up and lose.

00:15:41.450 --> 00:15:43.830
I didn't want to get like 50th because I could

00:15:43.830 --> 00:15:49.690
barely climb and it hurt. And I didn't go. And

00:15:49.690 --> 00:15:51.769
the deal was I was going. He was doing all this

00:15:51.769 --> 00:15:54.629
so that I would accomplish something great. And

00:15:54.629 --> 00:16:02.159
so he stopped funding me. And that sucked. Yeah,

00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.840
I kind of got turned off to the whole pursuit

00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:07.840
of making the Olympics because I felt like I

00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.000
was already on the older end and it was already

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:13.259
going to be a long shot. And once I got hurt,

00:16:13.379 --> 00:16:16.700
that sucked. I got hurt a couple more times after

00:16:16.700 --> 00:16:18.820
that. Once I stopped winning comps, I kind of

00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:21.240
stopped wanting to do the comps because it felt

00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:25.559
like I had peaked and come down and the new generation

00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:28.139
was so good. And I was just a little too competitive.

00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:33.220
It was that, but also I got way more psyched

00:16:33.220 --> 00:16:37.980
on coaching and just saw this whole, I wrote

00:16:37.980 --> 00:16:40.279
out all my goals and like I finished writing

00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:42.779
my goals one day and all of them were coaching

00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:46.879
related with the exception of a grade for climbing.

00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:50.100
And I realized like, whoa, I think I want to

00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:52.320
be a coach, not a professional climber anymore.

00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:54.720
Actually, I think I just like to improve at climbing.

00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:59.250
And so I made the shift. Sorry, I'm still trying

00:16:59.250 --> 00:17:01.450
to like process that story. That's so crazy.

00:17:02.629 --> 00:17:06.250
I guess like also as a coach, like what would

00:17:06.250 --> 00:17:08.049
you tell yourself if you were saying all these

00:17:08.049 --> 00:17:10.390
things about how you don't feel like you want

00:17:10.390 --> 00:17:12.450
to compete anymore because you don't feel like

00:17:12.450 --> 00:17:16.730
you can win anymore? Well, I would tell somebody

00:17:16.730 --> 00:17:19.490
if they felt that they couldn't win and that

00:17:19.490 --> 00:17:24.529
was all they were doing it for, then maybe they

00:17:24.529 --> 00:17:28.190
need to reevaluate their values. and what they

00:17:28.190 --> 00:17:31.849
actually value in the comp experience and what

00:17:31.849 --> 00:17:36.910
it represents. Because I realized somewhat afterwards

00:17:36.910 --> 00:17:41.990
that I love the competitions because of everything

00:17:41.990 --> 00:17:46.849
inside of the comp. And I convinced myself that

00:17:46.849 --> 00:17:51.259
the end, that moment at the end where you receive

00:17:51.259 --> 00:17:55.630
your final placement basically invalidated the

00:17:55.630 --> 00:18:00.259
entire. And I would say things like, you know,

00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:03.140
it's such an investment, you know, flying around

00:18:03.140 --> 00:18:05.819
the world to do this, which I was flying around

00:18:05.819 --> 00:18:08.140
at least the country a lot to do different comps,

00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:12.740
investing money and time. And too much of what

00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:16.420
I wanted was to see progression in my placements.

00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:20.680
And when I was competing in the local comp, it

00:18:20.910 --> 00:18:22.990
felt like I had already done the whole climb

00:18:22.990 --> 00:18:26.349
the ladder, get to the top. And it was. I was

00:18:26.349 --> 00:18:30.349
only living in the gap, which was looking at

00:18:30.349 --> 00:18:32.710
where I am and then trying to achieve this ideal

00:18:32.710 --> 00:18:38.130
forward rather than living in this gain of I've

00:18:38.130 --> 00:18:40.990
already accomplished so much. Every single time

00:18:40.990 --> 00:18:44.569
I compete, I could say, wow, even though I didn't

00:18:44.569 --> 00:18:47.869
win, I mean, not even recognize that, just how

00:18:47.869 --> 00:18:50.190
about look at how much I was able to accomplish

00:18:50.190 --> 00:18:53.769
today coming from where I've... started, which

00:18:53.769 --> 00:18:56.869
was I was just a kid. I never thought I'd be

00:18:56.869 --> 00:19:00.009
winning open comps because that would change

00:19:00.009 --> 00:19:04.289
the experience to, wow, I did so great in qualifiers.

00:19:04.369 --> 00:19:08.170
I was able to send these hard boulders and that's

00:19:08.170 --> 00:19:11.150
so, so sick compared to what I used to do back

00:19:11.150 --> 00:19:13.609
in the day. And I even made finals and I even

00:19:13.609 --> 00:19:16.569
got fourth. I got to compete in front of this

00:19:16.569 --> 00:19:22.039
crowd. I got to represent these brands. you know,

00:19:22.059 --> 00:19:24.700
sponsor me and support me. I got to inspire these

00:19:24.700 --> 00:19:27.339
people and these kids, put on a great show. My

00:19:27.339 --> 00:19:29.200
wife came out. That was great. She was there.

00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.599
She got to feel that she was supporting me. And

00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:36.380
instead, I felt like, you know, I go and I either

00:19:36.380 --> 00:19:40.299
win and winning meets expectations. So I net

00:19:40.299 --> 00:19:43.319
zero. It's not like a plus. It's like, yes, I

00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:45.759
win. That's what I do. I've been winning. So

00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:48.390
when I show up, I need to win. So I was setting

00:19:48.390 --> 00:19:50.250
myself up for and I could feel this in turn.

00:19:50.309 --> 00:19:53.089
I just didn't know it at the time was my mindset

00:19:53.089 --> 00:19:57.789
was I show up and I either get a net zero or

00:19:57.789 --> 00:20:01.750
lose. There was no potential for me to win. Yeah,

00:20:01.809 --> 00:20:05.380
that makes sense. And yeah, I was just thinking

00:20:05.380 --> 00:20:07.980
about that story. It just sounds so like kind

00:20:07.980 --> 00:20:12.180
of suspicious in a way. Like almost like a sugar

00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:16.640
daddy kind of situation or. Well, also, as soon

00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.720
as you said, maybe off the record, but as soon

00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.380
as you said like chiropractor and like weird,

00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:25.720
I don't know, medical things that he was testing

00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:28.500
out, that all sounded really suspicious to me.

00:20:28.980 --> 00:20:34.970
Yeah, he had me taking about 20 different supplements.

00:20:35.470 --> 00:20:39.069
Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God. When I used to have

00:20:39.069 --> 00:20:43.089
a box that was this big. It was, I couldn't fit

00:20:43.089 --> 00:20:45.289
everything in a shoe box. I had a bigger box

00:20:45.289 --> 00:20:47.269
that was full of all the pills and I had to take

00:20:47.269 --> 00:20:49.930
some of them like multiple times a day. So I

00:20:49.930 --> 00:20:52.569
would like go to work and I'd take like a baggie

00:20:52.569 --> 00:20:56.069
with multiple, like multiple bags of pills and

00:20:56.069 --> 00:20:58.890
I would have to be taking them. And he sent a

00:20:58.890 --> 00:21:00.849
guy out to test me in the beginning, sent a guy

00:21:00.849 --> 00:21:04.890
out to test me at the end of a week, couple week

00:21:04.890 --> 00:21:08.569
period. I'll be honest. I was definitely could

00:21:08.569 --> 00:21:11.519
have been placebo, but I was performing. way

00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:13.680
better i was able to do so much more it could

00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:15.339
have been also my training because i was training

00:21:15.339 --> 00:21:18.670
more setting less yeah but yeah it was weird

00:21:18.670 --> 00:21:22.769
in hindsight do you feel like it was like scammy

00:21:22.769 --> 00:21:26.589
or that it was actually a good good opportunity

00:21:26.589 --> 00:21:30.069
i at one point he had mentioned that he because

00:21:30.069 --> 00:21:32.029
i was like dude i don't know why you're giving

00:21:32.029 --> 00:21:34.920
me two thousand dollars a month And he was like,

00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:36.779
well, you know, don't think of it as me just

00:21:36.779 --> 00:21:39.460
doing this as a charitable thing. I am writing

00:21:39.460 --> 00:21:41.960
this off. So like this is also helping my taxes.

00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:46.119
So I don't know if it was scammy as much as I

00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:50.390
was just like, you know, a way that he could

00:21:50.390 --> 00:21:53.730
have this double bonus of getting a case study.

00:21:53.829 --> 00:21:56.450
Maybe I was, you know, quote unquote being used,

00:21:56.609 --> 00:21:58.650
but it was it felt like a symbiotic relationship.

00:21:58.829 --> 00:22:01.509
And he was a genuinely very nice person. I didn't

00:22:01.509 --> 00:22:04.730
feel like I was getting we were like. Is this

00:22:04.730 --> 00:22:07.970
dude taking my blood and doing weird stuff with

00:22:07.970 --> 00:22:11.630
my blood? But no, I don't think so. Okay, interesting.

00:22:12.630 --> 00:22:16.029
So then I do want to get into your whole comp

00:22:16.029 --> 00:22:19.950
experience. You did a lot. You did Boulder, Lee

00:22:19.950 --> 00:22:22.390
Dance Speed. Do you have a favorite discipline

00:22:22.390 --> 00:22:25.089
there? Boulder, for sure. If you're thinking

00:22:25.089 --> 00:22:27.529
back, what were your strengths and weaknesses

00:22:27.529 --> 00:22:30.190
then that you really had to work through? Oh,

00:22:30.289 --> 00:22:34.400
yeah. Well, I... have always been, I've, so I've,

00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:36.799
I've huge hands and I don't like to make this

00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:40.460
excuse, but if we're just talking from a, you

00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:44.839
know, a biomechanics perspective, I am at a massive

00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:49.700
disadvantage just due to my levers and, and,

00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:55.650
and torque. So I have a really hard time with

00:22:55.650 --> 00:22:58.250
smaller holds, but also just like force application,

00:22:58.470 --> 00:23:00.789
rate of force development is just harder for

00:23:00.789 --> 00:23:03.779
large fingers. And smaller edges are going to

00:23:03.779 --> 00:23:07.279
feel even smaller. So in growing up with the

00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:10.240
more classic style, it was a real struggle to

00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:12.839
compete. I definitely I always had the weakest

00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:19.130
fingers of everybody. But I also think that for

00:23:19.130 --> 00:23:22.430
some reason, my bicep and my other pulling muscles

00:23:22.430 --> 00:23:26.150
are very well inserted. And I would always have

00:23:26.150 --> 00:23:29.930
the strongest arms and my background of in other

00:23:29.930 --> 00:23:32.440
sports. helped me feel a lot more coordinated.

00:23:33.019 --> 00:23:37.779
But because I trained at another gym, my main

00:23:37.779 --> 00:23:41.380
gym only set up to V8 plus. So when I got to

00:23:41.380 --> 00:23:43.900
the level where I was climbing around like V11,

00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:47.900
none of the multicolors, which were the V8 plus,

00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:51.160
were hard enough for me to project. So I would

00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:54.240
constantly, every day would be taking away and

00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.099
making up my own boulders. And I loved route

00:23:57.099 --> 00:23:58.619
setting. And I had a home wall that I would set

00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:02.420
every day on. And I was obsessive. So I was like

00:24:02.420 --> 00:24:04.740
climbing five days a week, route setting usually

00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:06.559
five. And this is when I was a kid. I hadn't

00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:10.140
even started getting paid for it as a real job.

00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:15.980
And I got very good at understanding beta and

00:24:15.980 --> 00:24:19.319
reading boulder problems and finding breaks like

00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:23.440
crazy. So when I would compete, and also I was

00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:27.789
very early. uh adopter a very early adopter of

00:24:27.789 --> 00:24:30.789
comp style especially with like paddles and dinos

00:24:30.789 --> 00:24:34.230
and even like coordination steps run and jumps

00:24:34.230 --> 00:24:38.470
like i that was my jam so when that started background

00:24:38.470 --> 00:24:43.190
i guess ninja background sure uh but really i

00:24:43.190 --> 00:24:45.549
even before ninja it was just like well actually

00:24:45.549 --> 00:24:47.589
i grew up watching ninja warrior on g4 when i

00:24:47.589 --> 00:24:53.039
was like a kid kid uh in japan so Yeah, they

00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:55.160
had the Japanese version of Ninja Warrior on

00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:58.119
G4 when I was like six or seven. That's when

00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:03.339
I started watching. So good. So I started as

00:25:03.339 --> 00:25:07.609
a competitor with a big weakness of fingers and

00:25:07.609 --> 00:25:12.509
a very large strength in breaking beta, being

00:25:12.509 --> 00:25:14.829
physically strong. So when the holds were bigger

00:25:14.829 --> 00:25:19.490
and moves were bigger and also just quickly had

00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.940
to be more technical. Whenever I would get on

00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:29.119
anything that was hard, holding the holds, I

00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:31.480
couldn't campus on anything fingery. I couldn't

00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:34.599
have any margin of error. I had to climb it perfectly

00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:37.059
and very efficiently. That's why my movement

00:25:37.059 --> 00:25:41.220
and technique developed very quickly and explosive

00:25:41.220 --> 00:25:43.980
power to skip poor holds. I used to skip holds

00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:47.940
a ton or cut roots or winding boulders in half.

00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.299
And just look for breaks. Well, so with the setting

00:25:51.299 --> 00:25:53.680
style nowadays, do you think that your finger

00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:55.700
weakness would still be an issue? I think no

00:25:55.700 --> 00:26:00.079
matter what, you have a cap. The weaker your

00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:02.920
fingers are, the luckier you have to get. Because

00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:08.440
the best technique in climbing is finger strength.

00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:13.039
By far. It's the best technique. Because it is

00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:17.799
the only thing that multiplies everything. The

00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:19.500
only thing it doesn't multiply is handless slab.

00:26:19.700 --> 00:26:23.279
That's it. Everything else, even if it looks

00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:26.910
like a jug -to -jug dyno, the person with the

00:26:26.910 --> 00:26:31.250
stronger fingers can get 100%, or as close to

00:26:31.250 --> 00:26:34.890
100 % control and usage of their arms and every

00:26:34.890 --> 00:26:39.369
muscle in their pulling line, whereas someone

00:26:39.369 --> 00:26:43.230
with weaker fingers can maybe only use 90%. And

00:26:43.230 --> 00:26:46.619
it feels like they're using 100%, but it's not.

00:26:47.529 --> 00:26:50.230
That is a huge difference. You notice it when

00:26:50.230 --> 00:26:52.970
you like have an injury in your finger and it's

00:26:52.970 --> 00:26:56.390
like, oh, actually everything hurts. Yeah. Yeah,

00:26:56.470 --> 00:26:59.849
yeah, definitely. And so you had also done a

00:26:59.849 --> 00:27:04.410
couple of World Cups, only two. What, like what

00:27:04.410 --> 00:28:18.519
happened there? Oh, wow. I got on this boulder

00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.599
and it was just incredibly uncomfortable. So

00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:27.200
uncomfortable. It felt like it was just set incorrectly.

00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:29.759
It felt like they had set this climb that was

00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.039
like, dude, there should have been a foot. Please

00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:34.480
excuse this brief intermission, but if you're

00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:36.859
interested in ad -free episodes and would like

00:28:36.859 --> 00:28:39.079
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00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:42.359
including one where Charlie talks about bad coaching

00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:44.839
and gives his thoughts on why the men's field

00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.819
is so unpredictable, do consider helping support

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00:28:53.420 --> 00:28:55.880
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00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.519
submit video questions, early release episodes,

00:28:58.900 --> 00:29:01.849
and more to come. The proceeds go back into the

00:29:01.849 --> 00:29:04.369
podcast, help me break even, and they help me

00:29:04.369 --> 00:29:07.029
improve the experience of the guests. If you'd

00:29:07.029 --> 00:29:09.390
like to help out non -monetarily, liking, commenting,

00:29:09.509 --> 00:29:12.430
and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back

00:29:12.430 --> 00:29:14.509
to the show. I got on this boulder and it was

00:29:14.509 --> 00:29:19.150
just incredibly uncomfortable. So uncomfortable.

00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:23.769
It felt like it was just set incorrectly. Felt

00:29:23.769 --> 00:29:25.990
like they had set this climb that was like, dude,

00:29:26.049 --> 00:29:27.950
there should have been a foot. like obviously

00:29:27.950 --> 00:29:29.509
there should have been a foot and this hand is

00:29:29.509 --> 00:29:32.009
turned complete like why is this gaston like

00:29:32.009 --> 00:29:34.769
dead horizontal it shouldn't it should be on

00:29:34.769 --> 00:29:37.390
an angle and that was what i experienced for

00:29:37.390 --> 00:29:40.750
every boulder and i just could not every time

00:29:40.750 --> 00:29:44.769
i'd pull on i'd be like what the where i i can't

00:29:44.769 --> 00:29:47.549
this is just i can't even find the position to

00:29:47.549 --> 00:29:51.230
start generating i i can find no there was you

00:29:51.230 --> 00:29:54.799
know it's like my my calibration my pattern like

00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.039
if i was like trying to track and feel the muscles

00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:59.539
and everything was like you're gonna hold a gimbal

00:29:59.539 --> 00:30:02.039
where it's like trying to calibrate and it's

00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.660
just like doing this yeah that's what every single

00:30:04.660 --> 00:30:07.880
move felt like and i end the round and i got

00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.880
one zone that i fought my life out for and this

00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.559
was the two hour period where in my whole climbing

00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:17.200
career of 20 years that i lost psych i finished

00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:20.039
that round and so i got dead last 115 out of

00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:26.240
115 and I was just devastated. And like, it didn't

00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:28.079
click to me, you know, that I didn't sleep the

00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:29.619
night before. Basically, I was so nervous. I

00:30:29.619 --> 00:30:32.519
got like two hours of sleep. I ate so much. Oh,

00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:34.779
it was horrible. I was so nervous. The whole,

00:30:34.819 --> 00:30:37.799
it just, yeah, I was like sleep deprived. I gained

00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:40.480
like five pounds from just eating. I just ate

00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:43.539
way too much food with my parents and so psyched

00:30:43.539 --> 00:30:46.220
on the food. And, uh, and you're just feeling

00:30:46.220 --> 00:30:48.299
bloated and not just, just feeling like crap.

00:30:49.930 --> 00:30:53.009
Yeah. And I felt dejected and told my parents,

00:30:53.130 --> 00:30:55.750
I'm going to quit competition climbing. It's

00:30:55.750 --> 00:30:59.670
clearly not for me. And I cried in their room.

00:30:59.849 --> 00:31:03.549
I'm like 23 years old too. I'm not like a kid.

00:31:03.670 --> 00:31:07.589
Or yeah, I think 22 or 23. And I go back to the

00:31:07.589 --> 00:31:10.309
room that I'm staying in with the American team.

00:31:10.430 --> 00:31:13.710
And Sean Rabatou was my roommate. Oh, really?

00:31:14.049 --> 00:31:17.769
Yeah. And this was like when Giuliano Camerone

00:31:17.769 --> 00:31:21.839
had just... sent his first V15 like a couple

00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:24.319
of weeks before. And so they're not, you know,

00:31:24.339 --> 00:31:27.140
they're bigger names, but they're not huge names

00:31:27.140 --> 00:31:30.240
yet. And he's hanging out with Giuliano and they're

00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:32.220
drinking some wine afterwards. And they're with

00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:34.359
the Ometz brothers who are just really cool,

00:31:34.460 --> 00:31:38.279
strong brothers who I grew up looking up to in

00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.380
videos. And I sit down and I'm like, guys, I

00:31:41.380 --> 00:31:43.519
just like, I had the worst comp I've ever had.

00:31:43.700 --> 00:31:46.440
And they were like, dude. what are you talking

00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:48.940
about, man? You probably climbed so strong. I,

00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.519
I also didn't get a zone on that boulder. Like

00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:54.200
my first comp was horrible, bro. Don't even worry

00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:56.220
about it. You're such a beast. And they were

00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:59.700
so, it was just like, Oh wow. I'm, I'm actually

00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:02.200
not that bad. I just, cause they were like, dude,

00:32:02.259 --> 00:32:03.859
didn't you like not sleep last night? They were

00:32:03.859 --> 00:32:06.400
just being logical, making light of it. And like,

00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:09.660
you're going to crush the next one. And I am,

00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:12.039
I had a glass of wine and I had a great night.

00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.759
And thoroughly enjoyed. We went climbing the

00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:20.299
next day with Daniel Woods and a bunch of absolute

00:32:20.299 --> 00:32:23.079
legends were there at the session. I just loved

00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:26.859
it. Had a great time and came back inspired.

00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:30.140
And I said, I'm going to another one. I'm going

00:32:30.140 --> 00:32:33.559
to the competition in Vail. So God damn it, I'm

00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:36.720
going to set very awkward climbs. And I stripped

00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.980
two walls in my gym. And convinced my gym owner

00:32:39.980 --> 00:32:42.980
to let me just set for myself going to the World

00:32:42.980 --> 00:32:44.920
Cups. And I put a couple of holds up for the

00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:49.119
kids too. But I trained on those boulders almost

00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.920
exclusively for, I think it was a month and a

00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:57.200
half. And at the next World Cup in Vail, I topped

00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:01.660
two boulders, got four zones, and made it to,

00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:05.730
I'm sorry, not made it to, but placed 49th. So

00:33:05.730 --> 00:33:09.349
it was a massive, yeah, huge increase. And I

00:33:09.349 --> 00:33:12.450
also just felt better. Did all the right things.

00:33:12.529 --> 00:33:16.950
I went in feeling so good. Got great sleep. Just

00:33:16.950 --> 00:33:19.750
like did all the things I was supposed to do.

00:33:19.950 --> 00:33:22.549
Did you change anything in that month and a half

00:33:22.549 --> 00:33:24.829
training specifically? Or do you think it was

00:33:24.829 --> 00:33:27.609
mostly just the setting weird stuff? It's the

00:33:27.609 --> 00:33:32.329
setting. 100%. Yeah. Well, I'm sure I did. I

00:33:32.329 --> 00:33:35.559
still did on -site rounds. I remember that. but

00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:38.279
it was the movement. It was 100 % the movement.

00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:42.230
I was actually training for awkward climbing.

00:33:42.670 --> 00:33:45.569
I wasn't training for, it's like when you train

00:33:45.569 --> 00:33:49.369
for, you know, if you're a board climber and

00:33:49.369 --> 00:33:52.250
then you get on comp style routes, yeah, it's

00:33:52.250 --> 00:33:53.430
like you could be the best board climber in the

00:33:53.430 --> 00:33:55.130
world, but if you don't know how to do that move,

00:33:55.369 --> 00:33:57.130
you're going to have to solve it. And sure, you

00:33:57.130 --> 00:33:58.789
might be good enough and strong enough to solve

00:33:58.789 --> 00:34:01.710
it, but it'll take you 10 minutes, but you've

00:34:01.710 --> 00:34:04.150
got four. And it was still like the old school

00:34:04.150 --> 00:34:10.530
style setting at this time, right? Yes. I mean,

00:34:10.590 --> 00:34:13.329
new school was definitely there, but it was not

00:34:13.329 --> 00:34:17.179
at all like what it is right now. Not even a

00:34:17.179 --> 00:34:19.699
little bit. You had like maybe one or two coordination

00:34:19.699 --> 00:34:23.079
moves the whole round, maybe. And so, I mean,

00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:25.639
you did a lot better the second competition.

00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:29.500
So why stop there? You did so great. Yeah. Well,

00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:32.460
that's, uh, that's when I got hurt. Oh, okay.

00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:37.030
Yeah. Yeah. Got hurt and then came back in and

00:34:37.030 --> 00:34:41.769
didn't, didn't win a couple of times. Uh, then

00:34:41.769 --> 00:34:44.929
healed that injury. Finally, I just worked with

00:34:44.929 --> 00:34:47.849
a PT that was, had no idea what they were doing

00:34:47.849 --> 00:34:51.670
and just totally wasted my time. Yeah. The injury

00:34:51.670 --> 00:34:54.820
didn't heal correctly. They actually. what they

00:34:54.820 --> 00:34:57.679
were having me do definitely led to two other

00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:00.360
injuries that I had. They just, yeah, they were

00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.900
just trying to kick my ass basically with workouts.

00:35:03.019 --> 00:35:05.840
And for some reason I was doing it. I just trusted

00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:09.099
them. And I was so fatigued trying to train,

00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:11.559
which they said was okay. Got two more injuries.

00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:14.760
Stopped working with them and started working

00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:19.440
with a better PT. And yeah, healed those and

00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:23.150
then went into a comp and won and then retired.

00:35:23.659 --> 00:35:25.480
Okay. Well, at least you ended it on a good note.

00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:27.659
Do you ever think you would go back to competing?

00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:32.699
Maybe not in an international or national way,

00:35:32.820 --> 00:35:36.360
but do you still find joy in competitions ever?

00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:40.510
Yes, definitely. I do want to go back to competitions

00:35:40.510 --> 00:35:45.539
one day, but I want to go back and I want to

00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:48.320
be able to make the finals and have a chance

00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:52.329
at winning. I do. I do want that. And I like

00:35:52.329 --> 00:35:55.570
being able to play on all the climbs. I don't

00:35:55.570 --> 00:35:57.610
have as much fun when I go out in the finals

00:35:57.610 --> 00:36:01.170
and I know I can't do the moves. It's just not

00:36:01.170 --> 00:36:04.230
that much fun to squirm on a move, one move.

00:36:05.010 --> 00:36:07.530
And no, you can't do it, you know. And you still

00:36:07.530 --> 00:36:09.989
have that winning mindset. Okay. So then that's

00:36:09.989 --> 00:36:12.190
sort of when you started getting into your coaching

00:36:12.190 --> 00:36:14.989
journey. So let's get into that a bit. What were

00:36:14.989 --> 00:36:17.010
some of those goals that you had initially set

00:36:17.010 --> 00:36:19.110
out? When you said that you were like writing

00:36:19.110 --> 00:36:20.869
down what your goals were and then saw that all

00:36:20.869 --> 00:36:23.989
of them ended up being about coaching. Ooh, wow.

00:36:24.190 --> 00:36:28.250
That's a very good, very good question. Um, one

00:36:28.250 --> 00:36:32.630
of them was at one point be coaching a hundred

00:36:32.630 --> 00:36:35.989
climbers, uh, in writing programming for a hundred

00:36:35.989 --> 00:36:41.010
climbers. Another one was help 100 ,000 climbers

00:36:41.010 --> 00:36:44.690
improve at the sport. Cause I always, always

00:36:44.690 --> 00:36:51.110
had, um, my idea was to do like live video coaching

00:36:51.110 --> 00:36:55.630
for like huge groups. Like my mom used to go

00:36:55.630 --> 00:36:58.050
on webinars where like thousands of people would

00:36:58.050 --> 00:36:59.969
be on this webinar watching this guy talk and

00:36:59.969 --> 00:37:02.329
life coach. I just thought that was so cool.

00:37:02.429 --> 00:37:04.989
And my mom would pass on the learnings and it

00:37:04.989 --> 00:37:07.849
really helped me become the person I am today,

00:37:07.909 --> 00:37:11.409
truly in so many positive ways. And I really

00:37:11.409 --> 00:37:13.550
wanted to, that's why I do the weekly webinars

00:37:13.550 --> 00:37:16.880
now, by the way, but that's what I. Would love

00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:18.659
to be able to reach the point where my videos

00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:21.539
are consistently reaching that many people and

00:37:21.539 --> 00:37:25.019
that my programming is guiding them. So another

00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:31.039
goal was to coach somebody to become a national

00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:36.579
champion for all three disciplines, which I did

00:37:36.579 --> 00:37:40.099
achieve, which was great. And then what else

00:37:40.099 --> 00:37:43.059
did I have on that? A couple of financial goals

00:37:43.059 --> 00:37:46.480
that were... Never going to be achieved through

00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.900
being a professional climber, for sure. I think

00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:53.420
that is it. And I had five. So three, five, 10,

00:37:53.699 --> 00:37:57.360
15, 20 and 25 year goals. Well, yeah, you were

00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.219
very disciplined about it. And you've definitely

00:38:00.219 --> 00:38:03.559
reached quite a few of them already so far. I

00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:10.369
was thinking about having so many clients. I've

00:38:10.369 --> 00:38:13.150
had a few coaches kind of casually, and I know

00:38:13.150 --> 00:38:16.469
a lot of people who are always also looking for

00:38:16.469 --> 00:38:19.309
coaching or programs. And I feel like one thing

00:38:19.309 --> 00:38:22.769
I always hear that people want is extremely personalized

00:38:22.769 --> 00:38:25.829
programs, or I hear complaints about getting

00:38:25.829 --> 00:38:31.710
a coaching program that feels generic. How personalized

00:38:31.710 --> 00:38:34.829
do you think programs really need to be in order

00:38:34.829 --> 00:38:40.840
to be effective? Okay, so the... You can take

00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:43.099
so many different approaches to coaching somebody.

00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:48.210
And the habits, the things that are the most

00:38:48.210 --> 00:38:52.389
personal are to who the person actually is. That

00:38:52.389 --> 00:38:55.269
needs to be the most personal. And I know that's

00:38:55.269 --> 00:38:57.889
like, it's not, it sounds like it's dodging the

00:38:57.889 --> 00:39:02.090
question, but like I was saying before, champions

00:39:02.090 --> 00:39:06.130
become champions. So the person that you're coaching

00:39:06.130 --> 00:39:09.809
and coaching is separate from program design.

00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:12.820
Program design and coaching are not the same

00:39:12.820 --> 00:39:16.300
thing. Program design is very simple. And yes,

00:39:16.380 --> 00:39:18.960
you can design a very personalized program. And

00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:25.119
when a person is struggling to find time, struggling

00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:29.199
to achieve a certain thing, or has a major weakness,

00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:33.739
or has a very, very specific goal, that's when

00:39:33.739 --> 00:39:36.099
you get very specific and personalized. Every

00:39:36.099 --> 00:39:39.420
person needs a personalized program because...

00:39:39.730 --> 00:39:42.150
Everyone has a different thing that they're training

00:39:42.150 --> 00:39:43.929
for. Everyone is a different person with different

00:39:43.929 --> 00:39:47.170
strengths and weaknesses. But the most personalized

00:39:47.170 --> 00:39:49.469
thing that you need to do is to mentor them,

00:39:49.530 --> 00:39:52.489
guide them and communicate with them and change

00:39:52.489 --> 00:39:56.329
that person's outlook and align their value system

00:39:56.329 --> 00:39:59.909
with what their true fulfillment actually comes

00:39:59.909 --> 00:40:03.090
from. So I'm somebody who's really fulfilled

00:40:03.090 --> 00:40:06.150
with personal growth, which when you talk to

00:40:06.150 --> 00:40:10.920
anybody who's a climber. depending on how you

00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:14.659
dictate the conversation on your end, you will

00:40:14.659 --> 00:40:17.420
almost always end up at, yeah, actually, I just

00:40:17.420 --> 00:40:20.219
want to improve. And I just want to improve reliably.

00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:22.719
And some people have a certain destination that

00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:24.960
they've either arbitrarily picked out or been

00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:29.099
inspired to reach. But that person needs mentorship

00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:33.380
on what their big three blockers are, their negative

00:40:33.380 --> 00:40:38.679
habits. If this person places a very low value,

00:40:39.139 --> 00:40:42.059
on sleep. And so they tell you, yeah, I sleep

00:40:42.059 --> 00:40:43.880
all right. All right, well, what's your sleep

00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:46.119
like? I mean, I'm always consistently sleeping

00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:49.900
at least six hours or more. Oh, so your sleep

00:40:49.900 --> 00:40:53.559
is actually trash. That's what you think is good

00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:56.860
sleep. But that's terrible. If you're an athlete,

00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:00.179
you should be getting at least eight hours. Ideally,

00:41:00.179 --> 00:41:04.260
you're getting nine plus. And so if you were

00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:07.460
to write someone Give someone a generic plan,

00:41:07.619 --> 00:41:10.000
right? It's just a cookie cutter, pre -written

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:13.219
plan. Give them that plan and then fix their

00:41:13.219 --> 00:41:14.940
sleep and get that person to sleep two hours

00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:18.860
extra every night. That will, it's not even going

00:41:18.860 --> 00:41:22.539
to be close to how far they outperform the person

00:41:22.539 --> 00:41:25.199
with a personalized program, fully personalized,

00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:28.789
but is sleeping six hours a night. So there's

00:41:28.789 --> 00:41:32.429
a hierarchy and most people don't touch those

00:41:32.429 --> 00:41:35.630
things. And it's... If you are someone who's

00:41:35.630 --> 00:41:38.389
an athlete, like I'm constantly always an athlete.

00:41:38.429 --> 00:41:40.010
I'm always trying to improve myself as a climber.

00:41:40.170 --> 00:41:42.469
I take that just as seriously as my coaching.

00:41:43.170 --> 00:41:47.670
And I work with a lot of athletes and everyone's

00:41:47.670 --> 00:41:49.269
the same with sleep. Everyone needs a lot of

00:41:49.269 --> 00:41:52.570
sleep. Everyone should be understanding load

00:41:52.570 --> 00:41:55.489
management, what that is. So you have to understand

00:41:55.489 --> 00:41:57.610
that person's mind and their habits. You know,

00:41:57.610 --> 00:41:59.809
where is their stopping point? The questions

00:41:59.809 --> 00:42:02.630
you ask. constantly each week. When you talk

00:42:02.630 --> 00:42:04.250
to them every day, some of these people I communicate

00:42:04.250 --> 00:42:07.289
with, that's the thing that's personalized. Hey,

00:42:07.349 --> 00:42:10.170
dude, how was this last session? Did you stop

00:42:10.170 --> 00:42:13.170
when you were supposed to? I did, but my fingers

00:42:13.170 --> 00:42:14.829
are still a little, you know, they didn't feel

00:42:14.829 --> 00:42:17.429
back to 100%. Okay, well, guess what? You know

00:42:17.429 --> 00:42:21.070
what the plan says? Do 50 % next time. Warm up

00:42:21.070 --> 00:42:23.949
and stop at V5. Leave the gym. Take your shoes

00:42:23.949 --> 00:42:26.150
off. That's it. I know you're a V10 climber.

00:42:26.210 --> 00:42:28.610
You got undercooked. I think that makes sense

00:42:28.610 --> 00:42:30.929
because I remember the first time, the first

00:42:30.929 --> 00:42:33.690
ever coach I had, it was just like someone who

00:42:33.690 --> 00:42:35.949
was at the gym. They were like offering some

00:42:35.949 --> 00:42:38.690
coaching there. And I think I was probably climbing

00:42:38.690 --> 00:42:45.309
like V4, V5 at the time. And his main thing for

00:42:45.309 --> 00:42:47.949
me was he wanted me to keep doing straight arm

00:42:47.949 --> 00:42:49.630
drills. And I was like, what the heck? Is this

00:42:49.630 --> 00:42:52.550
like my first day climbing? I think I know how

00:42:52.550 --> 00:42:55.619
to do straight arms. And only like quite a while

00:42:55.619 --> 00:42:59.099
after that did I realize, oh, like, I guess I

00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:00.920
wasn't very good at straight arms. And then I've

00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:02.559
been doing these straight arm drills and I'm

00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:05.340
like so much better at straight arms now. And

00:43:05.340 --> 00:43:08.619
it helps a lot in my climbing, like being able

00:43:08.619 --> 00:43:12.019
to do harder boulders too, because I can like

00:43:12.019 --> 00:43:15.699
find a straight arm way to do this. And so, yeah,

00:43:15.739 --> 00:43:18.039
thinking back on it. Yeah, I guess that makes

00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:20.840
sense. At like an elite level, does it become

00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:25.719
a lot more personalized? Totally. Yeah. And this

00:43:25.719 --> 00:43:28.800
is the funny thing, though, is it totally does

00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:35.179
if you want it to. But if you look at any of

00:43:35.179 --> 00:43:39.099
the top athletes from any country, the best ones

00:43:39.099 --> 00:43:43.860
always will be the people that are the most focused

00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:46.079
when they're training. They're the ones that

00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:48.860
are always. you know, surrounding themselves

00:43:48.860 --> 00:43:51.639
with other strong climbers that they'd like to

00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:54.280
train with, that they enjoy training with, that

00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:58.019
don't do too much and don't trash their skin

00:43:58.019 --> 00:44:00.760
often, don't trash their bodies often. Because,

00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:03.039
you know, that first thing, that superpower of

00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:06.139
working hard and being focused can sabotage you

00:44:06.139 --> 00:44:08.659
sometimes. But these people, they just stop.

00:44:09.059 --> 00:44:10.579
when their fingers are tired. They just don't

00:44:10.579 --> 00:44:12.579
want to climb anymore. It could be a known thing,

00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:15.159
or a lot of people just have these inherent qualities

00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:16.960
about them. That's just a built -in habit that

00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:19.480
they, yeah, I just don't like when my fingers

00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:21.980
start to feel a little sore, even a little bit,

00:44:21.980 --> 00:44:24.780
or I'm not able to pull as hard. I'm just like,

00:44:24.820 --> 00:44:26.860
I don't want to keep going. And to some people,

00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:30.760
that's asinine. We're climbing. Why would you

00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:35.599
stop unless you just had to? And yes, you could

00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:39.730
have those people. do perfectly specialized training.

00:44:39.869 --> 00:44:42.670
If they're fully bought in, you know, like you

00:44:42.670 --> 00:44:47.070
see videos of Yanya doing very specific balance

00:44:47.070 --> 00:44:50.829
exercises and accessory work. And she's doing

00:44:50.829 --> 00:44:55.369
tons of very, you know, focused work on, it's

00:44:55.369 --> 00:44:59.409
all supplemental to climbing, but that's, that's

00:44:59.409 --> 00:45:01.510
great. She's bought in on that. She likes it.

00:45:01.989 --> 00:45:04.289
That's basically all she probably needs at this

00:45:04.289 --> 00:45:08.019
point because she can't get those things. with

00:45:08.019 --> 00:45:11.239
the time that she has or the finger strength

00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:14.760
that she has or the skin that she has so when

00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.699
she's done on the wall and she's you know that

00:45:17.699 --> 00:45:19.760
that link you know that weak link in the chain

00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:22.079
which is the skin maybe is done she's not going

00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.199
to keep climbing so she does this other very

00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:27.599
personalized stuff that's specific to her because

00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:31.159
she needs something specific uh you know she's

00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:32.519
not going to do deadlifts she's not going to

00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:35.610
do squats because it's not extremely pointed

00:45:35.610 --> 00:45:38.630
to the weaknesses that she has or the very specific

00:45:38.630 --> 00:45:41.730
demands that she gets in competition that she

00:45:41.730 --> 00:45:45.110
maybe doesn't, they can't set on the wall all

00:45:45.110 --> 00:45:47.989
the time or, you know, whatever it is. But yeah,

00:45:48.050 --> 00:45:50.730
you can do, I think everyone needs specific work.

00:45:50.789 --> 00:45:52.570
Obviously, like if I have a weakness, I need

00:45:52.570 --> 00:45:56.429
something that targets a weakness, but the other

00:45:56.429 --> 00:45:59.230
things come first, you know, your psych. And

00:45:59.230 --> 00:46:03.250
if it's dangerously close, like Janja could do.

00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:07.260
three extremely specific slab drills and get

00:46:07.260 --> 00:46:08.780
really good at those three specific movements

00:46:08.780 --> 00:46:11.679
if she's highly focused and psyched on it. Or

00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:14.760
she can go with her best friend to a local gym

00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:18.380
that has, you know, 20 comp style slab boulders

00:46:18.380 --> 00:46:21.340
and just do a really fun session and just climb.

00:46:23.500 --> 00:46:26.719
There's no way for us to know which one's going

00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:29.340
to be better for her. There are benefits and

00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:33.389
cons to each one when you compare. This is also

00:46:33.389 --> 00:46:35.070
one of the audience questions that had come in.

00:46:35.190 --> 00:46:37.670
Who are some of the elite level athletes that

00:46:37.670 --> 00:46:40.050
you have coached? And are there any hyper specific

00:46:40.050 --> 00:46:43.190
things that you had to work through them through

00:46:43.190 --> 00:46:49.150
with them on? Oh, yeah. So I would say the easiest

00:46:49.150 --> 00:46:52.809
one to pick out is Adam Shahar, but also Noah

00:46:52.809 --> 00:46:55.650
Wheeler, because we but we made a YouTube video

00:46:55.650 --> 00:46:57.690
that goes pretty into depth about the specifics,

00:46:57.769 --> 00:47:04.119
which we could link here. But Adam. So we did

00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:07.539
the same, you know, thing that I was saying Yanya

00:47:07.539 --> 00:47:11.079
has with Adam in for the first four years where

00:47:11.079 --> 00:47:14.519
it was just, you know, climb with people that

00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:17.079
you're really psyched to climb with. And here's

00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:19.440
a crap ton. Here's a spray wall. Get on it all

00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:22.219
the time. Number one, let them eat spray. That

00:47:22.219 --> 00:47:24.960
is like, that is feed. If you have kids that

00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:27.239
you're coaching, feed them a spray wall diet.

00:47:27.380 --> 00:47:29.400
That is their 50 % of their diet should be spray

00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:31.840
wall. Wow. Or boards. I don't care. Whatever.

00:47:32.380 --> 00:47:34.239
But spray is a little better if you want them

00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:37.519
to be good at comps. Also removes that competing

00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:40.960
with the numbers too much aspect. I think it's

00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:43.059
a little healthier and more whole diversity.

00:47:44.170 --> 00:47:49.889
And so we did 50 % of spray and 50 % get on my

00:47:49.889 --> 00:47:52.929
comp style boulders at every single grade. Just

00:47:52.929 --> 00:47:56.570
everywhere, all across the whole gym, every angle,

00:47:56.590 --> 00:47:58.670
every style, no matter what, we're doing it.

00:47:58.929 --> 00:48:00.710
Put them on the wall where they have to go up

00:48:00.710 --> 00:48:04.539
and down handless on jibs. And we would do as

00:48:04.539 --> 00:48:10.900
much as we could in width of specific, not narrowing

00:48:10.900 --> 00:48:13.019
our focus. But then when he got to the World

00:48:13.019 --> 00:48:16.179
Cup level, we did have to focus because he started

00:48:16.179 --> 00:48:19.360
to develop a weakness when I wasn't able to coach

00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:22.500
him in person more than once a week. So he would

00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:24.340
spend a little too much time on the spray, in

00:48:24.340 --> 00:48:27.099
my opinion. I think that he got unbelievably

00:48:27.099 --> 00:48:30.699
strong on it and then just wasn't going to see

00:48:30.699 --> 00:48:35.039
as many returns. In terms of what he could, you

00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:38.039
know, what stats can he move up for the World

00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:42.079
Cups in order to make his level move up? You

00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:45.360
know, when you're at a 98 strength and finger

00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:49.380
power, getting to a 99, which will take you,

00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:51.340
you know, like a year of doing it or a whole

00:48:51.340 --> 00:48:55.820
extra two days a week forever. Whereas you can

00:48:55.820 --> 00:48:58.139
just improve your slab, which is right now at

00:48:58.139 --> 00:49:01.960
a 70, bud. And so we would do a lot of slab work,

00:49:02.019 --> 00:49:04.199
a lot of coordination work and very specific

00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:07.119
video analysis and mainly conceptual education,

00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:11.059
because that's how I would regularly beat people

00:49:11.059 --> 00:49:14.000
that were way stronger than me. Like I said,

00:49:14.059 --> 00:49:16.219
I had the weakest fingers. In my opinion, my

00:49:16.219 --> 00:49:18.219
fingers were always the weakest on the circuit,

00:49:18.340 --> 00:49:21.400
even the years when I just would win every single

00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:26.400
comp. I was the weakest, but I understood exactly

00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:30.590
how to move. exactly where to step with the foot,

00:49:30.690 --> 00:49:34.969
exactly which point of my body to pull with,

00:49:35.070 --> 00:49:38.030
how to create trajectory, all of the concepts

00:49:38.030 --> 00:49:41.869
of movement I had dialed in. So when you gave

00:49:41.869 --> 00:49:45.150
me a V10 boulder, sure, everyone else was climbing

00:49:45.150 --> 00:49:48.329
on a V10. I was climbing on a V8 because I was

00:49:48.329 --> 00:49:51.289
doing every move as efficiently as possible.

00:49:51.510 --> 00:49:56.760
Because a boulder is graded by the... consensus

00:49:56.760 --> 00:49:59.880
of human beings, right? We all agree. Well, guess

00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:02.340
what? Everyone that's part of this, the average

00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:05.280
technique of everyone, let's say out of 100 points,

00:50:05.420 --> 00:50:09.019
is a 60. And their conceptual education, their

00:50:09.019 --> 00:50:11.360
understanding of these things is that like, let's

00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:15.099
say a 60. If you show up with a 90, you get on

00:50:15.099 --> 00:50:17.260
that climb, guess what? Real feel, it's going

00:50:17.260 --> 00:50:20.340
to be way easier for you, assuming your strength

00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:22.340
is held constant to everyone. And that's, you

00:50:22.340 --> 00:50:23.880
know, when your strength is way higher, that's

00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:25.300
when you're like, oh, no, this thing's soft.

00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:28.559
But I know this thing's hard. I'm just doing

00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:32.199
the easiest possible method. So we spent a crap

00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:34.659
ton of time of get on this coordination move,

00:50:34.739 --> 00:50:38.320
get on the slab. Come here. All right. Look at

00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:41.079
this. Now watch your hips. Okay. See what we

00:50:41.079 --> 00:50:43.900
want to do is and just draw it out. Explain all

00:50:43.900 --> 00:50:47.059
the concepts. Give him my brain. And that was

00:50:47.059 --> 00:50:49.659
what specifically he needed because he was so

00:50:49.659 --> 00:50:52.360
natural. And yes, I coached him on all these

00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:56.190
things for years, but. you know each level you

00:50:56.190 --> 00:51:00.090
get to you need more of a foundation of conceptual

00:51:00.090 --> 00:51:02.630
understandings kind of like in math you know

00:51:02.630 --> 00:51:05.769
when you get to calculus five if you didn't do

00:51:05.769 --> 00:51:08.550
calculus you know if you're at calculus one you

00:51:08.550 --> 00:51:10.550
can't just understand calculus five so you have

00:51:10.550 --> 00:51:13.889
to know two three four to be able to read the

00:51:13.889 --> 00:51:15.769
boulder and understand how to move otherwise

00:51:15.769 --> 00:51:18.690
you're just i guess i'll just go for it and you

00:51:18.690 --> 00:51:20.630
see it all the time even people in the finals

00:51:20.630 --> 00:51:23.360
they just don't understand It drives me nuts

00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:25.039
when I watch comps sometimes and you see someone

00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:29.230
who's so strong and so skilled, but it's just

00:51:29.230 --> 00:51:31.630
so obvious they don't understand simple concepts.

00:51:32.289 --> 00:51:35.210
And quote unquote simple, they are advanced,

00:51:35.389 --> 00:51:39.250
but it's like, dude, why are you loading the

00:51:39.250 --> 00:51:43.130
front foot so early, dude? Your calf in the back

00:51:43.130 --> 00:51:45.510
on your lagging leg doesn't flick at all. It

00:51:45.510 --> 00:51:49.210
just stays neutral. It doesn't even go into plantar

00:51:49.210 --> 00:51:51.510
flexion. to start the dynamic coordination move.

00:51:51.550 --> 00:51:53.889
So you're just generating with 20 % less power,

00:51:54.030 --> 00:51:56.630
which completely you can see that's why your

00:51:56.630 --> 00:51:59.449
arc peaks, you know, two feet early. And that's

00:51:59.449 --> 00:52:01.889
why you're having to paddle. You can't stall.

00:52:02.070 --> 00:52:04.750
It's just like, you know, simple stuff like that,

00:52:04.769 --> 00:52:07.869
that if you teach the kid, they are getting on

00:52:07.869 --> 00:52:10.829
easier boulders across the board. And so how

00:52:10.829 --> 00:52:14.510
did you learn these kinds of things? Or how can

00:52:14.510 --> 00:52:18.039
people who maybe can't afford a coach right now

00:52:18.039 --> 00:52:20.480
or can't have someone watching their stuff in

00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.599
person or over video. Like how do they, how do

00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:25.719
they learn what they don't know? They don't know.

00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:29.349
Yeah. Knowing what you don't know is really hard.

00:52:29.429 --> 00:52:32.550
You got to pay good coaches to, to teach these

00:52:32.550 --> 00:52:37.650
things. Or I've made a video library of 500 plus

00:52:37.650 --> 00:52:42.050
videos of me explaining videos of my clients

00:52:42.050 --> 00:52:43.889
with exactly what I'm talking about. It's just

00:52:43.889 --> 00:52:47.960
exclusively. me in a video drawing, showing the

00:52:47.960 --> 00:52:50.159
conceptual education, teaching biomechanics,

00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:53.280
you know, physics and just sports science and

00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:55.860
movement theory. And you can just go on the discord.

00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:58.280
It's, it's free to join the discord and then

00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:00.820
you just pay for the video library. I don't care

00:53:00.820 --> 00:53:02.460
if you, you know, screen record and keep these,

00:53:02.539 --> 00:53:07.940
but yeah. So other than that, you analyze, you

00:53:07.940 --> 00:53:10.239
just watch every comp that's ever come out. I've

00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:12.860
watched every single competition and I will stop,

00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:16.309
play, stop, play. And I'll just rewatch somebody

00:53:16.309 --> 00:53:20.630
doing it successfully. I used to be like weirdly

00:53:20.630 --> 00:53:23.570
obsessive about it. I would save videos and I

00:53:23.570 --> 00:53:26.110
would drag and create a video where I would have

00:53:26.110 --> 00:53:28.130
the person doing it correctly. It would play

00:53:28.130 --> 00:53:30.989
five times. And then I would watch like on the

00:53:30.989 --> 00:53:33.210
bottom, you know, you just drag two videos, make

00:53:33.210 --> 00:53:35.789
them smaller. And I'd have people doing it five,

00:53:35.809 --> 00:53:37.710
you know, the people that can't do it. Yeah,

00:53:37.730 --> 00:53:39.769
exactly. Five times on the bottom. And I'd watch

00:53:39.769 --> 00:53:42.030
that. So I would, it would basically be ingrained.

00:53:42.489 --> 00:53:44.750
into my brain what's right what's wrong and i'd

00:53:44.750 --> 00:53:47.230
pause and i'd see like you know draw the distances

00:53:47.230 --> 00:53:51.090
and you just need to put some uh lines on a screen

00:53:51.090 --> 00:53:53.849
to understand it and then get multiple angles

00:53:53.849 --> 00:53:56.070
you know when i would session i was obsessed

00:53:56.070 --> 00:53:59.369
with videoing myself profile you know you can

00:53:59.369 --> 00:54:03.230
learn so much by looking at yourself from profile

00:54:03.230 --> 00:54:06.170
everyone shoots from behind you gotta shoot from

00:54:06.170 --> 00:54:07.949
the side if you're always shooting from behind

00:54:07.949 --> 00:54:11.829
you're missing In my opinion, 75 % of what's

00:54:11.829 --> 00:54:17.599
really happening. Everyone sees when you look

00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:20.579
from behind, you're going up and then you're

00:54:20.579 --> 00:54:23.539
coming down. When you look from the side, you're

00:54:23.539 --> 00:54:25.659
seeing how we really come away from the wall,

00:54:25.780 --> 00:54:29.840
which is in and out. And that's trajectory. That's

00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:32.019
dead pointing. That's tension. That's force,

00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:35.690
truly force leaking. We never shoot up. and then

00:54:35.690 --> 00:54:38.670
slam down onto holds we're going up i mean it's

00:54:38.670 --> 00:54:41.530
rare you know it's micro but we come in and come

00:54:41.530 --> 00:54:44.210
out on virtually every move unless it's completely

00:54:44.210 --> 00:54:46.809
static so especially with coordination and comp

00:54:46.809 --> 00:54:50.989
style it's like so much of it and you were earlier

00:54:50.989 --> 00:54:54.210
earlier mentioning about what did you say something

00:54:54.210 --> 00:54:56.469
about this what was your phrase about the spray

00:54:56.469 --> 00:55:00.289
wall oh let them eat spray yes yeah like like

00:55:00.289 --> 00:55:02.510
um it was i didn't say that when marie antoinette

00:55:02.510 --> 00:55:07.010
said that Okay. Can you explain a bit about why

00:55:07.010 --> 00:55:10.469
the spray wall is so great? I never really got

00:55:10.469 --> 00:55:13.329
into the spray wall because I guess if I had

00:55:13.329 --> 00:55:14.929
a coach, it would be nice to go on a spray wall.

00:55:15.030 --> 00:55:18.489
But me, myself on a spray wall, I'm bad at coming

00:55:18.489 --> 00:55:23.750
up with clients to do. Yeah. So I liken the spray

00:55:23.750 --> 00:55:25.750
wall. The spray wall does the same thing to your

00:55:25.750 --> 00:55:28.710
brain that Lincoln Logs do in the beginning of

00:55:28.710 --> 00:55:33.519
your growth or like Legos. When you are You get

00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:35.500
a bunch of Lego pieces when you're a kid. Let's

00:55:35.500 --> 00:55:36.800
run with that because more people probably know

00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:40.920
Legos. And it's it's nice for your brain to put

00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:43.039
together, you know, when you're looking at a

00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:45.659
picture and you see, oh, OK, I'm going to make

00:55:45.659 --> 00:55:49.579
this this bug or this flower. I'm going to make

00:55:49.579 --> 00:55:52.139
a rose. OK, cool. And it gives you the step by

00:55:52.139 --> 00:55:55.380
steps. That's nice. But it takes it's mindless.

00:55:55.719 --> 00:55:58.699
It's like getting on the boards and swiping up

00:55:58.699 --> 00:56:02.559
and pulling up. Oh, cool. Cookie V4. All right,

00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:04.440
well, I'll try cookie V4 and boom, boom, boom.

00:56:04.539 --> 00:56:06.400
Ooh, well, you know what? I don't know how to

00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:08.239
do this. Let me look at all the videos linked.

00:56:08.539 --> 00:56:11.360
Ah, great. There is no thinking going on other

00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:16.420
than how do I execute this move better because

00:56:16.420 --> 00:56:20.960
I know how to do it, but I don't know what I'm

00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:23.000
doing wrong. But when you have the spray wall,

00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:27.599
you don't have anything. You are given a bunch

00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:31.500
of random Legos and it says create. whatever

00:56:31.500 --> 00:56:36.719
you want and when you first take legos and you

00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:40.340
know this is like we're looking at any master

00:56:40.340 --> 00:56:44.000
of and of any creative arts you know it's like

00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:46.380
uh or even science you know we piece together

00:56:46.380 --> 00:56:49.340
concepts from everywhere around us but when you

00:56:49.340 --> 00:56:52.300
make a novel discovery through research that

00:56:52.300 --> 00:56:54.800
came from a ton of work and labor and you had

00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:57.670
to create new ideas same thing with like You

00:56:57.670 --> 00:57:00.510
know, any great artist, Picasso. Sure, he sourced

00:57:00.510 --> 00:57:03.449
inspiration from certain things, but he came

00:57:03.449 --> 00:57:06.309
up with this unique style. And his first works

00:57:06.309 --> 00:57:09.050
probably sucked. You know, the first boulders

00:57:09.050 --> 00:57:11.289
you make on the spray for the first two to three

00:57:11.289 --> 00:57:14.570
years are probably going to suck. Picasso put

00:57:14.570 --> 00:57:16.929
in 10 ,000 hours before he started making masterpieces.

00:57:17.309 --> 00:57:20.989
And so now when I look at a spray wall, the thing

00:57:20.989 --> 00:57:23.590
I'm best at in life, it's not even close. You

00:57:23.590 --> 00:57:26.550
can ask any of the boys, any of the kids I've

00:57:26.550 --> 00:57:30.250
ever coached. If you bring me to a wall, I'm

00:57:30.250 --> 00:57:32.710
so much better at this than coaching, than climbing,

00:57:32.849 --> 00:57:36.000
anything. Give me a wall. Tell me what grade

00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:37.800
you climb. Actually, I'll just watch you climb

00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:39.739
for a minute or two. You don't even have to tell

00:57:39.739 --> 00:57:42.579
me what grade. Give me a style. Give me a type

00:57:42.579 --> 00:57:46.960
of move, whatever. Give me a minute, maybe 30

00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:49.179
seconds. I'll give you something that is going

00:57:49.179 --> 00:57:52.159
to be right at your limit. Or you can tell me

00:57:52.159 --> 00:57:53.900
how many tries you want it to be done in. And

00:57:53.900 --> 00:57:55.460
I'll make it so that that's the only way you

00:57:55.460 --> 00:58:01.500
can do it. Damn close. It is. I've put in so

00:58:01.500 --> 00:58:03.900
many thousands, like many thousands of hours

00:58:03.900 --> 00:58:07.579
of just staring and making climbs up. Some never

00:58:07.579 --> 00:58:12.659
even trying for other people. And just that is

00:58:12.659 --> 00:58:15.579
how you can walk up to a boulder and then you

00:58:15.579 --> 00:58:19.300
can see exactly what the possibilities are. Because

00:58:19.300 --> 00:58:22.239
so many times I have my own beta. You know, there

00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:24.059
are people that have done, this boulder has been

00:58:24.059 --> 00:58:26.550
done by a hundred something people. And, you

00:58:26.550 --> 00:58:28.510
know, like everyone that's done it super strong.

00:58:29.590 --> 00:58:32.150
I did it. But I'd use beta that no one else has

00:58:32.150 --> 00:58:36.449
used because I can see 20 options. Whereas someone

00:58:36.449 --> 00:58:38.210
who walks up, it's always good to have more options.

00:58:38.269 --> 00:58:40.489
And the spray wall teaches you that. And it also

00:58:40.489 --> 00:58:42.650
has larger holds and it has more dimensions than

00:58:42.650 --> 00:58:45.469
boards. So for that reason, I think the spray

00:58:45.469 --> 00:58:48.329
is better. It's also more visually appealing

00:58:48.329 --> 00:58:51.030
to me. It's very inspiring with the creative,

00:58:51.150 --> 00:58:55.500
artistic aspect. And yeah, I think that you get

00:58:55.500 --> 00:58:58.800
less hurt on spray walls, obviously, if you're

00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:02.079
just using the average hold set because of the

00:59:02.079 --> 00:59:05.380
hold variety as well. And so when you're prescribing

00:59:05.380 --> 00:59:08.360
the spray wall to your clients, is it they're

00:59:08.360 --> 00:59:10.239
supposed to make up their own stuff or are you

00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:14.059
making up stuff for them? 99 % of the time, it's

00:59:14.059 --> 00:59:15.820
they're making up their own stuff. Because if

00:59:15.820 --> 00:59:18.719
I make it up for you, no one becomes Picasso

00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:20.519
if somebody makes the paintings for Picasso.

00:59:21.039 --> 00:59:24.789
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, it's tough to get that,

00:59:24.789 --> 00:59:28.289
you know, imbued into people at the beginning.

00:59:28.409 --> 00:59:30.710
You know, some, most times people do a cycle

00:59:30.710 --> 00:59:34.349
and I make sure not to, you know, give you, you

00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:36.780
know, here's three drills in your week and each

00:59:36.780 --> 00:59:39.119
one you have to create entire boulders. I start

00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:43.099
with find a move or it depends if the climber

00:59:43.099 --> 00:59:45.199
has been climbing for like seven years and they're

00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:48.480
a V12 climber or whatever, you know, I have like

00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:52.079
tiers. It's up here, but like. You're a V4 to

00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:54.179
V5 climber. I'm not having you make up anything

00:59:54.179 --> 00:59:56.579
more than a move at first. And I also have to

00:59:56.579 --> 00:59:59.119
know that you like that. Because, sure, we can

00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:02.380
do that for a whole nine weeks. And if you tell

01:00:02.380 --> 01:00:04.480
me, dude, I really didn't get anything out of

01:00:04.480 --> 01:00:07.019
that drill. And it felt like a waste of time

01:00:07.019 --> 01:00:09.380
each time. And I felt a bunch of shame. Dude,

01:00:09.559 --> 01:00:11.380
this was a great cycle, but I'm sorry. I don't

01:00:11.380 --> 01:00:13.650
want to keep working together. I can't help that

01:00:13.650 --> 01:00:15.949
person now. They never got to see the value.

01:00:16.110 --> 01:00:18.030
And yes, I can explain that over the phone. But

01:00:18.030 --> 01:00:20.809
if I get them for a nine -week period. you know

01:00:20.809 --> 01:00:22.889
there's a whole long term how do i help this

01:00:22.889 --> 01:00:25.550
person reach their goals well i gotta make them

01:00:25.550 --> 01:00:29.030
psyched to stay on the correct best optimal path

01:00:29.030 --> 01:00:31.849
which i know what that is but i gotta you know

01:00:31.849 --> 01:00:34.329
deliver value instantly and every day should

01:00:34.329 --> 01:00:38.880
feel like oh wow oh cool oh great it's um yeah

01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:41.139
you have to think the whole life cycle well i'm

01:00:41.139 --> 01:00:44.420
just i'm thinking because i hate like spray walling

01:00:44.420 --> 01:00:49.780
and coming up with my own um climbs and i Like,

01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:53.280
it's completely accurate that I can't come up

01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:55.900
with correct. Like, my biggest weakness is also,

01:00:55.960 --> 01:00:59.960
like, finding good beta or, like, even finding,

01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:01.920
like, the correct beta or the intended beta.

01:01:02.440 --> 01:01:05.699
And so I guess, yeah, it all tracks. All of what

01:01:05.699 --> 01:01:08.320
you just said completely tracks with my climbing.

01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:11.619
So, yeah, I'm convinced. Am I going to work on

01:01:11.619 --> 01:01:15.989
it? I don't know. Like, because my issue is that

01:01:15.989 --> 01:01:19.369
I don't. want to be spending time thinking like

01:01:19.369 --> 01:01:22.309
i'm tired my brain is tired i don't have the

01:01:22.309 --> 01:01:23.989
time to do the thinking which is why i would

01:01:23.989 --> 01:01:26.510
hire a coach to do the thinking for me so that

01:01:26.510 --> 01:01:31.019
i can just go through the motions right and not

01:01:31.019 --> 01:01:33.980
have to do the whole thinking part totally does

01:01:33.980 --> 01:01:36.000
that make sense yeah no it totally does make

01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:39.519
sense um let me let me ask you a question do

01:01:39.519 --> 01:01:46.500
you like um do you like walking everywhere How

01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:48.780
much time would you spend in your life if you

01:01:48.780 --> 01:01:51.719
had to walk everywhere? I don't mind walking.

01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:53.960
I don't mind walking places. It depends on the

01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:56.340
weather, actually. Totally. Let's say you got

01:01:56.340 --> 01:01:59.300
to go get groceries. How long does that take

01:01:59.300 --> 01:02:01.340
to go walk to the grocery store and then walk

01:02:01.340 --> 01:02:05.599
back? 30 minutes. Okay. 30 minutes isn't bad.

01:02:05.659 --> 01:02:08.679
30 minutes there and back? Yeah. How much time

01:02:08.679 --> 01:02:13.119
would it take if you drove? 10. Okay. So 20 minutes.

01:02:13.320 --> 01:02:16.539
How many times do you get grocery per year? Do

01:02:16.539 --> 01:02:18.719
you do grocery shopping once a week? Yeah, once

01:02:18.719 --> 01:02:21.420
a week. Okay. So you do grocery shopping once

01:02:21.420 --> 01:02:26.610
a week, so that's 52 times 20. So that's almost

01:02:26.610 --> 01:02:31.989
20 hours that you would waste by having to walk.

01:02:32.190 --> 01:02:36.670
That's just walking, right? That's just groceries.

01:02:37.730 --> 01:02:43.090
If you were to learn how to drive, sure. Learning

01:02:43.090 --> 01:02:44.929
how to drive, you don't want to learn how to

01:02:44.929 --> 01:02:47.190
drive. Learning how to drive takes time. It's

01:02:47.190 --> 01:02:50.369
freaking hard, man. You get home from work, you're

01:02:50.369 --> 01:02:52.670
exhausted. I don't want to have to now learn

01:02:52.670 --> 01:02:55.369
how to drive a vehicle. You're going to waste

01:02:55.369 --> 01:02:58.889
so much more time in your life trying to figure

01:02:58.889 --> 01:03:02.039
out the best beta. Where if you just devoted

01:03:02.039 --> 01:03:04.420
30 minutes a week to making up climbs on the

01:03:04.420 --> 01:03:06.860
spray wall, you're going to finish climbs faster.

01:03:07.019 --> 01:03:10.260
So you're not going to spend 30 attempts on that

01:03:10.260 --> 01:03:12.630
boulder that's a project. literally doing the

01:03:12.630 --> 01:03:15.590
same moves. You, you benefit 5 % for the first

01:03:15.590 --> 01:03:18.769
five moves, 3%, then two. Now you're just logging

01:03:18.769 --> 01:03:21.489
20 attempts where you're benefiting one to 0

01:03:21.489 --> 01:03:24.070
.1%. Whereas you can move on to the next one

01:03:24.070 --> 01:03:28.329
and get 5%, 5%, 5%, next one, 5%, 5%, 5%. So

01:03:28.329 --> 01:03:32.050
you're not wanting to put in that time is creating

01:03:32.050 --> 01:03:34.690
an enormous amount of time that you're wasting

01:03:34.690 --> 01:03:37.530
in your climbing. And that's what I tried to

01:03:37.530 --> 01:03:40.900
get into people's heads because all of the best

01:03:40.900 --> 01:03:44.969
climbers on earth all of them do a crap ton of

01:03:44.969 --> 01:03:48.409
climbs nobody gets to the top doing a couple

01:03:48.409 --> 01:03:50.769
of climbs you look at all the best the way they

01:03:50.769 --> 01:03:54.769
got to be the best is they sometimes project

01:03:54.769 --> 01:03:57.750
sometimes but the majority of their time they're

01:03:57.750 --> 01:04:01.250
sending things in 5 to 25 attempts that zone

01:04:01.250 --> 01:04:03.489
right there that's your magic the climbs you

01:04:03.489 --> 01:04:06.449
can do in 5 to 25 not climbs that take them you

01:04:06.449 --> 01:04:09.869
know 25 and up or even you know, the climbs that

01:04:09.869 --> 01:04:11.789
they should be flashing and moving on to another

01:04:11.789 --> 01:04:13.809
one and learning a new lesson and getting more

01:04:13.809 --> 01:04:19.679
reps in. Yeah, that's like the big one. Yeah,

01:04:19.780 --> 01:04:22.659
that's definitely the big one for me. And sleep.

01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:28.260
There is still though a, you know, if you were

01:04:28.260 --> 01:04:30.699
to take what I just said at face value, you could

01:04:30.699 --> 01:04:34.260
also then theorize that if I do that, I will,

01:04:34.340 --> 01:04:37.159
the more time I spend creating my own climbs,

01:04:37.300 --> 01:04:41.139
the more I will improve as a climber. And be

01:04:41.139 --> 01:04:44.480
able to see the correct answers. Sure, that's

01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:48.480
true if you continuously improve in that skill.

01:04:48.699 --> 01:04:51.619
And there's a reason why not every root setter

01:04:51.619 --> 01:04:55.239
is incredibly gifted at climbing as well. And

01:04:55.239 --> 01:04:58.940
there's a reason why every board setter or spray

01:04:58.940 --> 01:05:01.599
setter is not incredibly gifted as well. Because

01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:05.019
people are all different. And everyone starts

01:05:05.019 --> 01:05:08.750
this race. of creative mind and unique ideas

01:05:08.750 --> 01:05:11.230
and exploration. Keyword there is exploration.

01:05:12.159 --> 01:05:15.599
Many setters are really good at setting 10 different

01:05:15.599 --> 01:05:18.420
things, 10 different movement patterns, 10 different

01:05:18.420 --> 01:05:20.880
styles and moods. That's it. You look at all

01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:23.500
their sets, it's just variations of 10 ideas.

01:05:23.719 --> 01:05:26.699
So those people have hit their limit. That's

01:05:26.699 --> 01:05:29.119
it. They need to either complexify those with

01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:31.920
micro ideas within the concepts. And again, those

01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:37.219
roads are faint. You need to form massive networks

01:05:37.219 --> 01:05:40.059
of roads through all different ideas constantly

01:05:40.059 --> 01:05:42.659
looking at different boulders trying to force

01:05:42.659 --> 01:05:46.159
a new type of movement i used to do so much research

01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:49.099
on let me pull up a new climb and reset this

01:05:49.099 --> 01:05:51.199
move i've never set this move before how do i

01:05:51.199 --> 01:05:54.760
make it work why it is what i just uh set not

01:05:54.760 --> 01:05:58.679
feeling the same as the boulder okay um oh why

01:05:58.679 --> 01:06:00.840
am i not looking like the guy in the video And

01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:03.119
there's a new idea. Now I'm learning new concepts.

01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:05.559
Same thing on the spray because some people just,

01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:08.980
they do the same and they don't grow. And so,

01:06:08.980 --> 01:06:11.539
and the setter heard that and they were inspired.

01:06:11.980 --> 01:06:14.780
You can't just do the same things over and over.

01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:18.179
Easier said than done for sure. So hard, yeah.

01:06:18.699 --> 01:06:21.340
Well, that brings me to one of the Discord questions

01:06:21.340 --> 01:06:23.300
that had come in. Someone asked, how does one

01:06:23.300 --> 01:06:25.599
improve as a coach? Is practice the best way

01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:28.480
or are there books or classes or certifications

01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:31.480
that you think? people should get? Ooh, that's

01:06:31.480 --> 01:06:35.570
a great question. All of the above. Obsession

01:06:35.570 --> 01:06:39.110
is the best way to become a coach. Complete obsession

01:06:39.110 --> 01:06:43.429
with learning. If you don't know something, research

01:06:43.429 --> 01:06:47.469
it, look it up. One of the best ways to force

01:06:47.469 --> 01:06:50.849
yourself to learn something is to pursue a certification

01:06:50.849 --> 01:06:52.949
that is in direct alignment with your goals.

01:06:53.309 --> 01:06:57.010
The CSCS was like, you know, it was a great challenge.

01:06:57.489 --> 01:06:59.750
i was studying a minimum of four hours a day

01:06:59.750 --> 01:07:02.909
for like eight months to take that test crush

01:07:02.909 --> 01:07:06.389
the test and it was only because i was you know

01:07:06.389 --> 01:07:09.630
had this goal of doing it so i would i was normally

01:07:09.630 --> 01:07:11.909
studying for about you know i'm not gonna lie

01:07:11.909 --> 01:07:15.369
30 minutes some days not a lot to an hour some

01:07:15.369 --> 01:07:18.070
days i've never went above an hour i would always

01:07:18.070 --> 01:07:21.690
like i would today i set a timer usually it's

01:07:21.690 --> 01:07:25.170
a half hour and then i'll just research and just

01:07:25.699 --> 01:07:28.059
For whatever it is that I don't know or want

01:07:28.059 --> 01:07:31.159
to brush up on, pull it up. Watch all the videos.

01:07:31.679 --> 01:07:34.539
Travel around the world. The best way to get

01:07:34.539 --> 01:07:40.480
any information is to research and then experience.

01:07:41.099 --> 01:07:44.550
Because research, it's kind of like anything.

01:07:44.690 --> 01:07:48.730
You can only say so much. Anything I put out

01:07:48.730 --> 01:07:51.289
there in social media or even an article, I can

01:07:51.289 --> 01:07:54.949
only say so many things. The things I leave out

01:07:54.949 --> 01:07:58.039
are... you know 15 subtopics that didn't make

01:07:58.039 --> 01:08:00.500
the cut same thing with a journal article you

01:08:00.500 --> 01:08:03.059
know like you read any publication and sure they

01:08:03.059 --> 01:08:06.139
include a lot but there's so much they did not

01:08:06.139 --> 01:08:09.300
include like all the verbal discussions between

01:08:09.300 --> 01:08:12.099
each other all the you know between the people

01:08:12.099 --> 01:08:16.800
who are in the study so experiencing every aspect

01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:19.579
that you coach you know like if you your clients

01:08:19.579 --> 01:08:22.859
always you know feel fear at height and you don't

01:08:22.859 --> 01:08:25.689
know how to help someone with that Go get on

01:08:25.689 --> 01:08:28.789
something tall and feel fearful and then work

01:08:28.789 --> 01:08:31.029
through that. Look up the ways to work through

01:08:31.029 --> 01:08:34.210
it and then do it yourself. If you don't do that,

01:08:34.270 --> 01:08:40.750
you cannot speak. You're missing 50%. And so

01:08:40.750 --> 01:08:43.250
many people just say, you know, they regurgitate

01:08:43.250 --> 01:08:46.890
what they know through reading, not what they

01:08:46.890 --> 01:08:50.220
have felt and endured. So we'll get into more

01:08:50.220 --> 01:08:52.020
of these coaching questions. I got a bunch from

01:08:52.020 --> 01:08:54.340
the audience later. But before we get into that,

01:08:54.399 --> 01:08:56.640
I want to talk about your thoughts on world climbing

01:08:56.640 --> 01:09:00.260
today. What do you think about the setting in

01:09:00.260 --> 01:09:04.359
world climbing right now? I think it is, it's

01:09:05.699 --> 01:09:08.460
just too, yeah, it's too removed at this point.

01:09:08.779 --> 01:09:11.880
I think that there are good boulders, without

01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:13.899
a doubt. There's some comps where it's great,

01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:19.699
totally. But I feel like they just don't. Realize

01:09:19.699 --> 01:09:24.789
that so many people and so many climbers want

01:09:24.789 --> 01:09:28.350
to climb on boulder problems, not coordination

01:09:28.350 --> 01:09:35.680
problems exclusively. And I just, it really just

01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:38.800
doesn't showcase who's the best climber anymore.

01:09:38.979 --> 01:09:42.460
It's fine to have, because coordination moves

01:09:42.460 --> 01:09:49.140
are now a part of comp climbing. I get it. It

01:09:49.140 --> 01:09:51.460
doesn't have to be. It's not inherently part

01:09:51.460 --> 01:09:54.680
of comp climbing, but it has been, you know,

01:09:54.909 --> 01:10:00.300
associated with, they're basically the same thing

01:10:00.300 --> 01:10:02.840
at this point. And it's called comp style. People

01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:04.560
call things comp style when it's coordination

01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:07.460
where there's huge holds and very dynamic and

01:10:07.460 --> 01:10:10.699
showy. And I get it. It's fun to look at. But

01:10:10.699 --> 01:10:14.140
if you look at, it's funny because if you look

01:10:14.140 --> 01:10:16.680
at Instagram or you look at YouTube and you look

01:10:16.680 --> 01:10:19.399
at the most viewed, you know, when you see hooks,

01:10:19.930 --> 01:10:23.789
When I use hooks, the best hooks are usually

01:10:23.789 --> 01:10:28.729
crazy positions and somebody holding something

01:10:28.729 --> 01:10:34.329
that looks like crap. And we just don't get that

01:10:34.329 --> 01:10:38.029
as much. We get some weird positions. It's funny

01:10:38.029 --> 01:10:39.829
because the best boulders that are always called

01:10:39.829 --> 01:10:43.409
out and showcased in highlights are the ones

01:10:43.409 --> 01:10:46.329
where... You know, it's just they had to do some

01:10:46.329 --> 01:10:49.310
weird, freaky sequence and they just all were

01:10:49.310 --> 01:10:51.590
made uncomfortable and they had to solve it and

01:10:51.590 --> 01:10:55.310
the hold sucked. And they just I think the setters

01:10:55.310 --> 01:10:58.090
just make this bullshit argument. It's just such

01:10:58.090 --> 01:11:01.989
bullshit that it's so hard to separate these

01:11:01.989 --> 01:11:06.470
people because they're all so strong. OK, good.

01:11:07.369 --> 01:11:10.050
Hold that thought. So you're telling me that

01:11:10.050 --> 01:11:13.850
all these athletes are identically strong. in

01:11:13.850 --> 01:11:15.729
all grip types. Is that what you're telling me?

01:11:15.750 --> 01:11:18.170
Their strength to weight ratio are all the exact

01:11:18.170 --> 01:11:22.710
same. Is that true? No, it's not. That's impossible.

01:11:23.189 --> 01:11:25.550
Okay. Let's just say, sure. Is it possible? Yeah.

01:11:25.750 --> 01:11:29.550
In maybe one of the trillion dimensions out there,

01:11:29.569 --> 01:11:33.949
if those exist, but no, no, it's not. Let's be

01:11:33.949 --> 01:11:36.630
real here. So why don't you just set some boulder

01:11:36.630 --> 01:11:39.050
problems and get some real separations? Why don't

01:11:39.050 --> 01:11:41.189
you just do your job a little bit better? Why

01:11:41.189 --> 01:11:43.750
don't you just set these boulders? you know,

01:11:43.750 --> 01:11:45.829
with a group of setters separately, get something

01:11:45.829 --> 01:11:48.409
real close and then replicate that. Sure. We're

01:11:48.409 --> 01:11:50.829
going to see a couple of stopping points, but

01:11:50.829 --> 01:11:52.829
if you know, that's the way that you have to

01:11:52.829 --> 01:11:55.390
force separation, why not make two zones? You

01:11:55.390 --> 01:11:57.050
know, if it's, you have to make a bunch of the

01:11:57.050 --> 01:11:59.989
moves and everyone might fall at one spot. Okay.

01:12:00.050 --> 01:12:02.289
Make the bottom moves a little bit harder. No

01:12:02.289 --> 01:12:06.300
one, no one gets mad when the moves are really

01:12:06.300 --> 01:12:10.720
hard and people achieve a point value and maybe

01:12:10.720 --> 01:12:14.100
one person gets a top. It sucks when you make

01:12:14.100 --> 01:12:16.880
it way too hard, but you can make it so that

01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:19.420
getting the zone is very challenging and then

01:12:19.420 --> 01:12:24.180
getting the top is very hard. I just think that

01:12:24.180 --> 01:12:26.460
they, yeah, they've done it many times before.

01:12:26.539 --> 01:12:29.460
It's not impossible. And they should do more

01:12:29.460 --> 01:12:31.220
boulders like that because it's way more fun.

01:12:31.380 --> 01:12:33.439
The athletes will enjoy it. It's a better representation

01:12:33.439 --> 01:12:37.720
of the actual sport. And I like watching it more.

01:12:37.939 --> 01:12:41.340
I mean, they do set like at least one power boulder

01:12:41.340 --> 01:12:46.109
per round now. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes. Yeah.

01:12:46.210 --> 01:12:50.109
No, they do. They do. Sometimes. And those are

01:12:50.109 --> 01:12:52.590
honestly the best. Those and the hard slabs are

01:12:52.590 --> 01:12:54.909
the best boulders. What about the setting for

01:12:54.909 --> 01:12:58.680
lead then? Is that kind of good still to you?

01:12:58.819 --> 01:13:01.239
Lead's good. Yeah, just stop making people run

01:13:01.239 --> 01:13:04.460
and jump. I guess I am surprised to hear that

01:13:04.460 --> 01:13:07.260
given your background with Ninja Warrior and

01:13:07.260 --> 01:13:09.619
enjoying that kind of stuff. You want them to

01:13:09.619 --> 01:13:11.560
stay totally separate things? Yeah, well, I want

01:13:11.560 --> 01:13:14.609
to see who the best climber is. That's what it

01:13:14.609 --> 01:13:17.649
is. It's a rock climbing competition. If it was

01:13:17.649 --> 01:13:19.590
an Ninja Warrior competition, I'd want to see

01:13:19.590 --> 01:13:22.850
who the best Ninja Warrior is. If it were a parkour

01:13:22.850 --> 01:13:24.750
competition, I'd want to see who the best parkourist

01:13:24.750 --> 01:13:27.930
is. It is a rock climbing competition. Why don't

01:13:27.930 --> 01:13:31.529
you just let them rock climb? Lead, by definition,

01:13:31.770 --> 01:13:35.930
is long endurance climbing. If you're shutting

01:13:35.930 --> 01:13:37.550
people down at the beginning, we don't get to

01:13:37.550 --> 01:13:42.029
see who the best lead climber is. It's such a

01:13:42.029 --> 01:13:44.770
cop -out. When you're like, let's, we need to

01:13:44.770 --> 01:13:47.489
make this exciting. Let's open up with a, you

01:13:47.489 --> 01:13:50.090
know, a run and press and jump. It's like, dude,

01:13:50.189 --> 01:13:52.210
no. How about you just do your job better? Why

01:13:52.210 --> 01:13:54.010
don't you just make a better route? Like you

01:13:54.010 --> 01:13:57.029
don't need to spice things up at the beginning,

01:13:57.149 --> 01:14:01.109
dude. Like everyone leads already. It's not,

01:14:01.130 --> 01:14:03.649
it's never going to be the most exciting, you

01:14:03.649 --> 01:14:05.670
know, discipline. It's just not, it's not as

01:14:05.670 --> 01:14:08.710
action packed. So just let it be what it is.

01:14:09.149 --> 01:14:11.350
I mean, I guess from like the viewership and

01:14:11.350 --> 01:14:14.810
needing eyes perspective. I mean, you also do

01:14:14.810 --> 01:14:17.750
a lot of content. Totally. You kind of understand

01:14:17.750 --> 01:14:20.750
why they feel like they need to do this in order

01:14:20.750 --> 01:14:25.890
to get sponsors and people who want to play ads

01:14:25.890 --> 01:14:29.329
before or get it on TV and have a lot of viewers

01:14:29.329 --> 01:14:34.090
there. Definitely. 100%. But, you know, golf

01:14:34.090 --> 01:14:37.470
has a ton of viewership. It's very popular. It's

01:14:37.470 --> 01:14:40.520
been around for a lot longer. you know, and broadcasted.

01:14:40.619 --> 01:14:43.359
We just need time. That's, that's really what

01:14:43.359 --> 01:14:45.479
we need. We don't need to dilute the sport and

01:14:45.479 --> 01:14:48.220
warp it to make it exciting. It really is. It's

01:14:48.220 --> 01:14:51.479
honestly, I've always said this and I just, it's

01:14:51.479 --> 01:14:53.840
embarrassing. It feels a little embarrassing

01:14:53.840 --> 01:14:59.039
that we have to masquerade as some, you know,

01:14:59.060 --> 01:15:01.800
we're, we do these exciting, always we're running

01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:05.619
and jumping and it's like not at all what none

01:15:05.680 --> 01:15:08.460
of us got into it because of that. It's not even

01:15:08.460 --> 01:15:10.579
that. I mean, it is inspiring. Don't get me wrong.

01:15:10.699 --> 01:15:12.920
I do like it. It's just it's not everything.

01:15:13.199 --> 01:15:15.520
It would be like if basketball, they were like,

01:15:15.619 --> 01:15:19.819
listen, we're going to do the whole thing is

01:15:19.819 --> 01:15:21.979
going to just be the last four minutes. Like,

01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:23.579
that's it. We're just going to do the game is

01:15:23.579 --> 01:15:26.079
going to be four minutes long. No, dude, it's

01:15:26.079 --> 01:15:29.920
you. The game is entertaining. People like watching

01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:32.520
a basketball game. Real basketball players like

01:15:32.520 --> 01:15:34.680
watching people that appreciate basketball. Sure.

01:15:34.760 --> 01:15:36.619
Basketball is more exciting. More can happen.

01:15:37.210 --> 01:15:40.210
But if you really want viewership, focus on the

01:15:40.210 --> 01:15:43.289
athlete more. People watch documentaries, dude.

01:15:43.449 --> 01:15:45.510
Like way more people watch documentaries. They

01:15:45.510 --> 01:15:48.729
like to listen to people talk. The reason people

01:15:48.729 --> 01:15:50.609
are going to watch is because they're invested.

01:15:51.010 --> 01:15:54.909
I will watch Jesse Gruber, you know, climb in

01:15:54.909 --> 01:15:58.390
slow motion for an hour. Because I grew up climbing

01:15:58.390 --> 01:16:00.590
with Jesse Gruber. I know Jesse Gruber. I feel

01:16:00.590 --> 01:16:03.170
an attachment. No one really... The other thing

01:16:03.170 --> 01:16:05.390
is like we're... We're not really focusing on

01:16:05.390 --> 01:16:09.189
the nations very much, the nationality. The story

01:16:09.189 --> 01:16:11.770
is just no one knows anything about the athletes

01:16:11.770 --> 01:16:13.470
in the World Cup other than what the announcer

01:16:13.470 --> 01:16:17.630
talks about. And it's not that much. In other

01:16:17.630 --> 01:16:19.489
sports, like I was watching the U .S. Open with

01:16:19.489 --> 01:16:23.130
tennis, they get way into it. In between things,

01:16:23.229 --> 01:16:26.649
they see the athlete talking during the commercial

01:16:26.649 --> 01:16:28.630
breaks. You really know these athletes. You know

01:16:28.630 --> 01:16:30.930
what they're going through. You get a lot of

01:16:30.930 --> 01:16:32.989
stats. And I like that they give stats. It's

01:16:32.989 --> 01:16:35.960
great. I think they're just, yeah, they're focusing

01:16:35.960 --> 01:16:38.760
on their own things. It's my opinion. No. Okay.

01:16:38.819 --> 01:16:40.840
I get that. Yeah. I mean, that's partially why

01:16:40.840 --> 01:16:42.739
I wanted to start the podcast because people

01:16:42.739 --> 01:16:45.500
weren't really talking to the comp athletes and

01:16:45.500 --> 01:16:48.460
yeah, golf sucks. I don't want to watch it, but

01:16:48.460 --> 01:16:53.239
yeah, it is really slow. It is slow, but it's

01:16:53.239 --> 01:16:55.619
incredible skill. And if you, you know, you respect

01:16:55.619 --> 01:16:58.340
skill, you'll watch or if you'd like golf. Yeah.

01:16:58.439 --> 01:17:03.140
Makes sense. You also mentioned that. You think

01:17:03.140 --> 01:17:05.960
other countries are kind of doing different things

01:17:05.960 --> 01:17:07.979
with their climbers that the U .S. isn't doing.

01:17:08.260 --> 01:17:11.220
What do you feel like those things are? Yeah,

01:17:11.319 --> 01:17:14.659
so the U .S. has definitely gotten better about

01:17:14.659 --> 01:17:21.539
it. The hub right now is in Salt Lake City. And

01:17:21.539 --> 01:17:24.460
so the best athletes will be in Salt Lake City.

01:17:25.609 --> 01:17:30.130
But even still, a lot of the best athletes that

01:17:30.130 --> 01:17:32.739
live... You know, like they don't live in Salt

01:17:32.739 --> 01:17:34.079
Lake City because they've got their home. They

01:17:34.079 --> 01:17:35.800
don't want to go there or they're just too young.

01:17:35.819 --> 01:17:41.000
They're still in school. There aren't enough

01:17:41.000 --> 01:17:44.479
opportunities given, in my opinion, for those

01:17:44.479 --> 01:17:47.899
athletes to be around other top athletes. So

01:17:47.899 --> 01:17:50.340
you've got a lot of these athletes that train

01:17:50.340 --> 01:17:53.399
by themselves and they're not with a group where

01:17:53.399 --> 01:17:56.659
they're inspired or they're, you know, like the

01:17:56.659 --> 01:17:58.699
best ones at their gym. And that works for some

01:17:58.699 --> 01:18:04.550
people, totally. These other countries have big

01:18:04.550 --> 01:18:08.569
teams. They give a lot to those teams. They fund

01:18:08.569 --> 01:18:12.850
it. And they'll pay them. And they will pay so

01:18:12.850 --> 01:18:14.329
that they have better opportunities, so they

01:18:14.329 --> 01:18:16.489
can travel more, that they can be with other

01:18:16.489 --> 01:18:19.369
athletes. Because the best thing for a top -level

01:18:19.369 --> 01:18:23.189
athlete who's climbing is to constantly be traveling

01:18:23.189 --> 01:18:29.170
to new gyms or to be at a great gym, a great

01:18:29.170 --> 01:18:31.710
facility. And with people that are pushing them.

01:18:32.069 --> 01:18:35.529
Because if you put people together and you have

01:18:35.529 --> 01:18:40.369
a very high ceiling for like a big tank is what

01:18:40.369 --> 01:18:43.029
I used to call it with Adam and Austin. A fish

01:18:43.029 --> 01:18:47.289
only grows as large as its tank. Very few fish

01:18:47.289 --> 01:18:51.090
will continue to grow. It's extremely rare. Some

01:18:51.090 --> 01:18:54.710
do, but very few do. So the average fish will

01:18:54.710 --> 01:18:57.710
grow to the size of the tank. Like if my gym

01:18:57.710 --> 01:19:00.949
that I grew up climbing in. set beyond v8 and

01:19:00.949 --> 01:19:03.489
the highest boulders that they set were v14 i

01:19:03.489 --> 01:19:05.789
would have gotten a v14 because that was the

01:19:05.789 --> 01:19:09.189
ceiling but gyms stop setting that's why the

01:19:09.189 --> 01:19:11.170
boards are so great because they don't have as

01:19:11.170 --> 01:19:14.390
low of a ceiling they have you know v14 and it

01:19:14.390 --> 01:19:16.470
kind of gets muddied at the top where those boulders

01:19:16.470 --> 01:19:18.909
can be way easier way harder a lot of them way

01:19:18.909 --> 01:19:23.710
harder and so i think that these gyms that these

01:19:23.710 --> 01:19:27.010
people are at that our country should probably

01:19:27.010 --> 01:19:29.630
do more of the athlete can't move that they should

01:19:29.630 --> 01:19:33.829
at least be given either a setter or they should

01:19:33.829 --> 01:19:36.329
do something with the gym in cooperation to support

01:19:36.329 --> 01:19:37.869
this athlete and make sure they constantly have

01:19:37.869 --> 01:19:41.130
new boulders or give the athlete a salary so

01:19:41.130 --> 01:19:44.109
that they can travel and get on. It doesn't take

01:19:44.109 --> 01:19:48.069
much to make an athlete, give them that opportunity

01:19:48.069 --> 01:19:51.029
and make their year twice as beneficial for what

01:19:51.029 --> 01:19:54.590
they want to do, which is compete and get to

01:19:54.590 --> 01:19:57.010
new gyms and have to solve new problems, be inspired,

01:19:57.369 --> 01:20:02.060
stay psyched. And yeah, I think in some places

01:20:02.060 --> 01:20:03.899
like Japan, it's just a little easier. You know,

01:20:03.920 --> 01:20:07.340
it's more gyms, denser population because the

01:20:07.340 --> 01:20:10.340
country is just smaller. Yeah. They have the

01:20:10.340 --> 01:20:13.220
gym set incredibly difficult and the setting

01:20:13.220 --> 01:20:17.079
is just so much better on average. So, you know,

01:20:17.119 --> 01:20:20.060
the tank is just bigger there and they're constantly

01:20:20.060 --> 01:20:22.899
around other people that are just so psyched

01:20:22.899 --> 01:20:26.340
and so good. Every gym has like some B16 climber

01:20:26.340 --> 01:20:28.840
in it. So that's your ceiling everywhere. And

01:20:28.840 --> 01:20:30.659
when everyone's like that, it pushes you up.

01:20:30.739 --> 01:20:32.579
It's definitely a bit harder in the US where

01:20:32.579 --> 01:20:35.119
everyone is so spread out and the country is

01:20:35.119 --> 01:20:38.300
big and traveling around is not necessarily like

01:20:38.300 --> 01:20:41.340
a cheap thing to do. I guess it would help with,

01:20:41.359 --> 01:20:45.260
yeah, if they had sponsorships. But I also kind

01:20:45.260 --> 01:20:49.859
of like wonder if it is good to get inspiration,

01:20:50.140 --> 01:20:53.500
but then I'm thinking for people like Yanya,

01:20:53.579 --> 01:20:55.939
where you are the inspiration and you're the

01:20:55.939 --> 01:20:58.720
top. It's like hard to push yourself when you're

01:20:58.720 --> 01:21:01.000
already kind of the best. For people who are

01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:04.159
stuck, how do you push yourself when you're already

01:21:04.159 --> 01:21:07.500
the biggest one? Well, I think at that point,

01:21:07.560 --> 01:21:12.640
if you're the biggest one, if you're already

01:21:12.640 --> 01:21:15.520
thinking that, then you're thinking about it

01:21:15.520 --> 01:21:19.800
through extrinsic motivation. Your only motivation

01:21:19.800 --> 01:21:24.159
is to be better than other people. And typically...

01:21:24.619 --> 01:21:27.500
And many people do get to the top with trying

01:21:27.500 --> 01:21:30.300
to be better than other people. But you're really

01:21:30.300 --> 01:21:33.220
only ever in any sport and really this one, you're

01:21:33.220 --> 01:21:36.899
only in competition with yourself. So I want

01:21:36.899 --> 01:21:38.619
to get better. I want to get better than I am

01:21:38.619 --> 01:21:43.840
today at something. And so if I'm Janja, I'm

01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:46.380
trying to improve on my weaknesses. I'm trying

01:21:46.380 --> 01:21:48.340
to improve on my strengths. I'm trying to improve

01:21:48.340 --> 01:21:52.420
in every aspect because what's your other option?

01:21:53.100 --> 01:21:55.579
yeah does she just give up on improving yeah

01:21:55.579 --> 01:21:57.840
i guess that's true like she's that's who she

01:21:57.840 --> 01:22:00.479
is that's her life it's like the best of anything

01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:05.270
has to it's just because you're just because

01:22:05.270 --> 01:22:08.149
no one else has been there it's like if the people

01:22:08.149 --> 01:22:13.739
who set the you know the first mile record and

01:22:13.739 --> 01:22:17.199
the first person who ran sub four was like all

01:22:17.199 --> 01:22:20.819
right set done did it yeah i'm already better

01:22:20.819 --> 01:22:23.619
than everyone else like well Someone's going

01:22:23.619 --> 01:22:26.140
to beat you, dude. Obviously someone can beat

01:22:26.140 --> 01:22:29.880
that later. So see how far can I set that mark?

01:22:30.079 --> 01:22:31.800
That's, I guess that's a way you can find an

01:22:31.800 --> 01:22:34.100
extrinsic motivation as well. Like I want to

01:22:34.100 --> 01:22:36.560
make it so that future generations won't be able

01:22:36.560 --> 01:22:39.359
to ever achieve what I've done, but I think it

01:22:39.359 --> 01:22:41.000
needs to come from within. I just want to see

01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:43.960
how far I already have proof of concept. I can

01:22:43.960 --> 01:22:50.260
achieve incredible, you know, limits and I want

01:22:50.260 --> 01:22:53.279
to push them. see what i can do okay so then

01:22:53.279 --> 01:22:55.060
let's get into some of the audience questions

01:22:55.060 --> 01:22:57.819
um i think this first one is very interesting

01:22:57.819 --> 01:23:00.960
um from discord how often do coaches at kids

01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:04.239
level see elite talent and how easy is it to

01:23:04.239 --> 01:23:07.500
recognize is it possible to coach a seven -year

01:23:07.500 --> 01:23:10.819
-old and immediately be able to tell yeah that's

01:23:10.819 --> 01:23:14.640
going to be like a v17 climber uh no you can't

01:23:14.640 --> 01:23:19.039
tell that at seven you can have an idea uh what

01:23:19.039 --> 01:23:24.250
everything When they're that young, I mean, really

01:23:24.250 --> 01:23:27.029
at any age, I mean, here, if I get a seven -year

01:23:27.029 --> 01:23:29.689
-old, you know how I know that they could be

01:23:29.689 --> 01:23:34.380
a V17 climber? If they have all 10 fingers. Okay.

01:23:35.020 --> 01:23:38.699
That's it. If they have all 10 fingers, they

01:23:38.699 --> 01:23:41.420
can be a V17 climber. That's it. They're seven

01:23:41.420 --> 01:23:44.359
years old, right? Adam started when he was nine,

01:23:44.479 --> 01:23:51.750
climbed that V17. So that kid has two years on

01:23:51.750 --> 01:23:54.500
Adam. Kid can just mess around for two years,

01:23:54.539 --> 01:23:58.460
do nothing, still get to V17. And he did V17.

01:23:58.720 --> 01:24:03.289
It didn't take too long. I mean, yeah, it wasn't

01:24:03.289 --> 01:24:07.600
insanely fast, but that's what I think that people

01:24:07.600 --> 01:24:10.720
have to realize that V17 is not that hard. If

01:24:10.720 --> 01:24:13.500
you start at a young age and you climb and you're

01:24:13.500 --> 01:24:15.340
psyched and you keep climbing and you get into

01:24:15.340 --> 01:24:17.800
outdoor climbing and you just want to do it,

01:24:17.819 --> 01:24:20.939
you just want to get better. sure there's like

01:24:20.939 --> 01:24:25.310
a lot of things you got to do but it's not yeah

01:24:26.140 --> 01:24:28.560
it's not like the the hardest thing in the world

01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:30.600
it's not like you have to be a prodigy you just

01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:34.680
have to be really psyched and stay really psyched

01:24:34.680 --> 01:24:37.060
and have a parent that will give you the opportunities

01:24:37.060 --> 01:24:40.899
a coach that can show you the way or not you

01:24:40.899 --> 01:24:42.500
just need a parent that can just bring you everywhere

01:24:42.500 --> 01:24:44.899
sometimes you see kids that are naturally gifted

01:24:44.899 --> 01:24:47.579
but you have no idea what they're going to turn

01:24:47.579 --> 01:24:51.520
out to be like you know some kids just Fall out

01:24:51.520 --> 01:24:53.199
of love with the sport. It's all about longevity.

01:24:53.539 --> 01:24:56.399
You know, like Adam could have been twice as

01:24:56.399 --> 01:25:01.039
talented, but had parents that just didn't want

01:25:01.170 --> 01:25:02.609
to take him places. Didn't want to bring him

01:25:02.609 --> 01:25:05.770
to practice more than three days a week. He didn't

01:25:05.770 --> 01:25:08.369
have that. He has the best parents. So does Austin.

01:25:08.750 --> 01:25:12.430
They just did everything for those kids to have

01:25:12.430 --> 01:25:15.510
the best opportunities on the planet. I mean,

01:25:15.529 --> 01:25:20.039
Austin Hoyt is potentially the most. established

01:25:20.039 --> 01:25:23.300
outdoor boulderer he's put the most FAs has done

01:25:23.300 --> 01:25:27.039
the most repeats is unbelievably diverse in his

01:25:27.039 --> 01:25:30.720
styles and one of the reasons was because one

01:25:30.720 --> 01:25:32.220
of the kids the most psyched person I know on

01:25:32.220 --> 01:25:34.300
the planet in climbing he's the only person I

01:25:34.300 --> 01:25:36.520
think that's more psyched than me I openly admit

01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:40.060
that but his dad Craig Hoyt would take him outdoors

01:25:40.060 --> 01:25:43.720
whenever he wanted anywhere and would carry the

01:25:43.720 --> 01:25:45.840
pad and would just be there and Austin would

01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:47.779
carry a pad too but Craig would be there carrying

01:25:47.779 --> 01:25:51.300
pads schlepping around, doing whatever he could

01:25:51.300 --> 01:25:53.739
to support that kid. He is the most supportive

01:25:53.739 --> 01:25:57.979
parent I've ever seen. And Arik Shahar and Dana

01:25:57.979 --> 01:26:01.300
Shahar sent Adam wherever he wanted, training

01:26:01.300 --> 01:26:03.960
camps, sent him to all the comps, and they have

01:26:03.960 --> 01:26:07.119
three kids. They just went above and beyond.

01:26:07.279 --> 01:26:12.029
So any kid with supportive parents. That's the

01:26:12.029 --> 01:26:13.810
biggest thing. Supportive parents or a coach.

01:26:13.949 --> 01:26:17.069
I used to also go crazy above and beyond for

01:26:17.069 --> 01:26:20.189
them. These kids just had two enormous advantages.

01:26:20.869 --> 01:26:24.989
But that's really it. You just need the opportunities.

01:26:25.350 --> 01:26:28.109
If the kid says, I want to go climb, and the

01:26:28.109 --> 01:26:30.670
parents say yes, that kid will get to climb and

01:26:30.670 --> 01:26:32.770
will get better. And if the kid says, I want

01:26:32.770 --> 01:26:34.109
to climb, and the coach says, you're going to

01:26:34.109 --> 01:26:36.720
actually climb these. How cool are these, huh?

01:26:36.840 --> 01:26:39.640
And the kid's like, whoa, this is so sick. I'm

01:26:39.640 --> 01:26:43.319
so psyched. Oh my gosh. Kid couldn't have a talented

01:26:43.319 --> 01:26:45.359
bone in his body. Could be the least talented

01:26:45.359 --> 01:26:47.500
kid on planet Earth. But if every time they go

01:26:47.500 --> 01:26:49.800
to the gym, their brain is lit up to 10 out of

01:26:49.800 --> 01:26:52.279
10, like every time those kids came in, I had

01:26:52.279 --> 01:26:54.319
something new. And I would, every time they'd

01:26:54.319 --> 01:26:56.000
show up, I'd go, yo, dude, dude, come here, check

01:26:56.000 --> 01:26:58.479
this out. When a kid walks in the gym, if they

01:26:58.479 --> 01:27:00.479
hear, dude, dude, come check this out, I set

01:27:00.479 --> 01:27:02.920
this for you. You know what fireworks go off

01:27:02.920 --> 01:27:06.550
in a child? It's, yeah. And the coach too, like

01:27:06.550 --> 01:27:08.029
I was the best feeling on earth when I'd see

01:27:08.029 --> 01:27:10.069
their eyes light up and they'd be so psyched

01:27:10.069 --> 01:27:11.949
to try it, run back to the bag, get the shoes.

01:27:11.970 --> 01:27:15.310
Like, oh man. So they all have it. Never give

01:27:15.310 --> 01:27:17.270
up on a kid. Even if they seem like they don't

01:27:17.270 --> 01:27:19.770
like the sport and it's not clicking, never give

01:27:19.770 --> 01:27:22.510
up. I had so many kids that for like three, four,

01:27:22.550 --> 01:27:25.189
five years, it was just like, man, this kid's

01:27:25.189 --> 01:27:27.609
just not, he doesn't love it. He doesn't have

01:27:27.609 --> 01:27:29.449
the work ethic. He doesn't want it. And then

01:27:29.449 --> 01:27:31.949
one day that you'd no idea what happens. And

01:27:31.949 --> 01:27:35.989
one day they show up and boom, there it is. and

01:27:35.989 --> 01:27:38.789
game on. And that kid could be a V5, they turn

01:27:38.789 --> 01:27:42.590
14. By 16, they're climbing V15. You've seen

01:27:42.590 --> 01:27:46.909
that? Yeah. Okay, cool. Next one is from Filthy

01:27:46.909 --> 01:27:49.630
Little Crimpses. Thoughts on fingerboarding versus

01:27:49.630 --> 01:27:52.010
board climbing? Is board climbing more applied

01:27:52.010 --> 01:27:56.489
and practical? Answer is yes. I mean, by definition,

01:27:56.510 --> 01:28:02.470
it's more applied, right? Yeah. Practical, totally

01:28:02.470 --> 01:28:07.279
depends. Would you like... advise against fingerboarding

01:28:07.279 --> 01:28:11.689
no i mean that's that's the same would you advise

01:28:11.689 --> 01:28:14.050
against putting weight through your fingers in

01:28:14.050 --> 01:28:17.609
a climbing specific grip yes no i i do actually

01:28:17.609 --> 01:28:19.630
advise that because that's what you do when you

01:28:19.630 --> 01:28:23.770
rock climb so fingerboarding is just statically

01:28:23.770 --> 01:28:27.430
loading i i would advise on uh i would advise

01:28:27.430 --> 01:28:31.510
fingerboarding over climbing uh overboard climbing

01:28:31.510 --> 01:28:35.279
if you've got any injured fingers or you've got

01:28:35.279 --> 01:28:38.000
synovitis or you've got anything that's not going

01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:42.250
to like high velocity finger loading. That's

01:28:42.250 --> 01:28:45.029
what the hangboard is great for just static control.

01:28:45.329 --> 01:28:48.310
Also, if you are a fan of logical progression,

01:28:48.350 --> 01:28:50.909
I think if you're doing any testing or measurements

01:28:50.909 --> 01:28:54.229
and you want to know on an absolute level, am

01:28:54.229 --> 01:28:56.770
I stronger? Use the hangboard, dude. Don't get

01:28:56.770 --> 01:28:59.670
on the board. look at this. I couldn't do this

01:28:59.670 --> 01:29:01.289
boulder, but now I could do it. That's a huge

01:29:01.289 --> 01:29:03.829
improvement. Or I could only do one lap in 10

01:29:03.829 --> 01:29:06.710
minutes. Now I could do three. Okay, great. Are

01:29:06.710 --> 01:29:09.170
you stronger or are you better? Or did you improve

01:29:09.170 --> 01:29:11.930
your RFD or your peak force? We have no freaking

01:29:11.930 --> 01:29:14.869
idea. The hangboard can't really get better at

01:29:14.869 --> 01:29:17.310
that. I mean, sure you can. You totally can.

01:29:17.489 --> 01:29:23.270
It is a skill, hanging, but it's way, way more

01:29:23.270 --> 01:29:25.350
one -dimensional. Pretty simple answer there

01:29:25.350 --> 01:29:28.949
then. Next one from Samantha Bellingham. What

01:29:28.949 --> 01:29:31.529
is the most effective way to train big dino moves?

01:29:31.989 --> 01:29:34.510
You asked for the most effective way to train

01:29:34.510 --> 01:29:37.590
big dino moves. Most effective way is to do big

01:29:37.590 --> 01:29:41.789
dino moves. 100 % Samantha. Do, but here we go,

01:29:41.829 --> 01:29:43.409
Samantha. You're ready for the, because you're

01:29:43.409 --> 01:29:44.810
never going to get that type of answer from me.

01:29:44.829 --> 01:29:47.750
It's just for dramatic effect. Here we go. Big

01:29:47.750 --> 01:29:52.649
dino moves that you can stick, but feel challenging.

01:29:52.989 --> 01:29:57.420
Okay. It was hard. It felt like an RPE, so rate

01:29:57.420 --> 01:30:01.060
of perceived exertion, of, let's say, an eight.

01:30:01.199 --> 01:30:04.079
It was really tough. It wasn't at your limit,

01:30:04.140 --> 01:30:07.479
but it was really tough. Okay, great. Do it again

01:30:07.479 --> 01:30:09.760
and again and again and again until that comes

01:30:09.760 --> 01:30:13.000
down to about an RPE of five or six. Once it

01:30:13.000 --> 01:30:15.260
gets down there, trash it. Get rid of it. Don't

01:30:15.260 --> 01:30:17.319
do that one again. Maybe you come back to it

01:30:17.319 --> 01:30:20.159
two months later if it was novel enough. But

01:30:20.159 --> 01:30:22.600
now go find another one that's an eight. Okay,

01:30:22.600 --> 01:30:24.439
great. If it takes you three, four, five tries

01:30:24.439 --> 01:30:27.359
to stick it, maximum I'd say like, again, five

01:30:27.359 --> 01:30:31.119
to 25. Awesome. Do it again. Do it again. Do

01:30:31.119 --> 01:30:32.819
it again. Do it again. Do it again. Once it becomes

01:30:32.819 --> 01:30:34.479
too easy, get rid of it. Done. You're done with

01:30:34.479 --> 01:30:37.180
it. Move on. Do this with like three of each

01:30:37.180 --> 01:30:40.140
session. If you do that for a month, you're going

01:30:40.140 --> 01:30:43.770
to see incredible returns. That's the trick.

01:30:43.989 --> 01:30:45.869
Don't get caught up on doing ones that are impossible.

01:30:46.710 --> 01:30:48.270
Don't get caught up on doing ones that are too

01:30:48.270 --> 01:30:50.949
easy other than to warm up. Sounds solid. So

01:30:50.949 --> 01:30:54.329
nothing about explosive training, leg stuff?

01:31:19.979 --> 01:31:23.659
Weak link is done. So this is whatever goes first.

01:31:23.819 --> 01:31:25.800
Probably going to be skin or fingers. Let's be

01:31:25.800 --> 01:31:27.840
honest here. Could be power. Could totally be

01:31:27.840 --> 01:31:30.000
pull power in the upper body. Could be legs.

01:31:30.220 --> 01:31:33.500
If those go, but the other ones can still benefit,

01:31:33.779 --> 01:31:36.640
now you leave that and go do supplemental training

01:31:36.640 --> 01:31:39.699
for those. So I just did my dynos. My fingers

01:31:39.699 --> 01:31:43.319
are sore. Great. Grab the bar and do some plyometric

01:31:43.319 --> 01:31:46.000
power pull -ups. Okay, great. My arms are tired.

01:31:46.119 --> 01:31:49.289
Okay, now do... Plyometric legs. Doesn't even

01:31:49.289 --> 01:31:51.869
need to be today. Could be tomorrow. So you're

01:31:51.869 --> 01:31:54.710
just, whenever one has your, you know, the weak

01:31:54.710 --> 01:31:57.609
link of the chain dies, go do the next one. But

01:31:57.609 --> 01:32:01.210
priority is first. Highest power is first. And

01:32:01.210 --> 01:32:04.189
then you go down the chain. Solid answer for

01:32:04.189 --> 01:32:07.869
Samantha. And I just want to keep track of time.

01:32:08.010 --> 01:32:12.229
So I'll just do one last one from show8675. Who

01:32:12.229 --> 01:32:15.149
are your dream clients? Ooh, my dream clients.

01:32:18.149 --> 01:32:23.970
My dream client is somebody who wants to get

01:32:23.970 --> 01:32:28.149
better and wants to learn and likes to ask questions

01:32:28.149 --> 01:32:31.930
about what is it that they don't know? What can

01:32:31.930 --> 01:32:36.000
they get better at? And fills me in on what they're

01:32:36.000 --> 01:32:38.039
thinking, fills me in on what they're doing,

01:32:38.100 --> 01:32:40.920
keeps me updated, really wants to go into the

01:32:40.920 --> 01:32:44.039
weeds of everything, is psyched on learning concepts,

01:32:44.119 --> 01:32:49.000
is psyched on just learning how to do. all the

01:32:49.000 --> 01:32:51.720
right things the right way. It's not someone

01:32:51.720 --> 01:32:55.300
who is just really good and wants to get better

01:32:55.300 --> 01:32:58.779
and kind of knows the ways that work for them

01:32:58.779 --> 01:33:00.920
and they only want to do that and they think

01:33:00.920 --> 01:33:05.319
they know what the right path is. Sometimes those

01:33:05.319 --> 01:33:07.939
climbers are right or they've got a bunch of

01:33:07.939 --> 01:33:10.140
the assumptions correct and they're easy to help

01:33:10.140 --> 01:33:15.020
get better. But I'm much more into taking someone

01:33:15.020 --> 01:33:18.760
who's basically lost. or they're in a dark room,

01:33:18.859 --> 01:33:21.239
giving them a flashlight and then pointing them

01:33:21.239 --> 01:33:23.260
towards the light switch and then walking them

01:33:23.260 --> 01:33:25.460
through the entire house, turning on all the

01:33:25.460 --> 01:33:29.079
light switches. And if there was like one pro

01:33:29.079 --> 01:33:33.760
athlete world series climber that you would want

01:33:33.760 --> 01:33:38.939
to train, anyone come to mind? Adam Shahar. Okay.

01:33:39.000 --> 01:33:41.500
You can't say that. Yeah. That's not fair. What

01:33:41.500 --> 01:33:46.659
a cop out. I know. Oh man. Who I would want to

01:33:46.659 --> 01:33:52.380
train? Oh, no. Well, Imori would be my dream

01:33:52.380 --> 01:33:55.239
to be able to coach Imori. Interesting. Because

01:33:55.239 --> 01:33:58.939
she would be so easy to make a champion. If she

01:33:58.939 --> 01:34:02.119
were down to just let me take the wheel, I really

01:34:02.119 --> 01:34:03.920
think I can make Imori the best in the world.

01:34:04.159 --> 01:34:07.680
Just because of the lack of willing to commit

01:34:07.680 --> 01:34:11.079
to dynamic moves. Yeah, just lack of power. Yeah.

01:34:11.119 --> 01:34:15.329
That's it. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, I would

01:34:15.329 --> 01:34:18.109
think it's not like, I can't imagine that she

01:34:18.109 --> 01:34:20.149
doesn't know that that's her weakness. I think

01:34:20.149 --> 01:34:23.029
she's probably just unwilling to do that. So

01:34:23.029 --> 01:34:24.989
that's kind of like the opposite of your dream

01:34:24.989 --> 01:34:28.270
client, right? I know. I know. But if I could,

01:34:28.489 --> 01:34:32.729
that's the thing though. It's like, I can see,

01:34:33.029 --> 01:34:37.359
it's just like the most black and white, I guess.

01:34:37.380 --> 01:34:40.979
Like there's an issue and it's like, and then

01:34:40.979 --> 01:34:42.779
she's clearly - So easy to fix. Yeah, so easy.

01:34:43.340 --> 01:34:46.600
But maybe, oh man, I don't know. That's a really

01:34:46.600 --> 01:34:49.420
great question. I want to say Meji, but that's

01:34:49.420 --> 01:34:50.739
just because I like him because he's a really

01:34:50.739 --> 01:34:55.130
nice person. We talk sometimes, but I don't know

01:34:55.130 --> 01:34:58.090
because Meji is so well -rounded. I don't know

01:34:58.090 --> 01:35:01.850
how much I'd be able to give him in terms of

01:35:01.850 --> 01:35:04.270
like revolutionizing his climbing. I mean, I

01:35:04.270 --> 01:35:07.449
know I could help him get better, but I don't.

01:35:08.109 --> 01:35:10.210
Yeah, I want to work with someone who has a crap

01:35:10.210 --> 01:35:13.760
ton of opportunities. If you ever think of anyone

01:35:13.760 --> 01:35:16.760
else, let me know. But yeah, I think that's all

01:35:16.760 --> 01:35:18.420
the questions I had then. Thanks for joining

01:35:18.420 --> 01:35:21.100
me today. Any other things you want to shout

01:35:21.100 --> 01:35:23.100
out or last minute words of wisdom that you want

01:35:23.100 --> 01:35:25.159
to get out there? Not really. I guess just raising

01:35:25.159 --> 01:35:29.539
awareness of if anyone has been inspired by any

01:35:29.539 --> 01:35:34.239
of the things that I'm saying and any of my ideas

01:35:34.239 --> 01:35:36.600
towards teaching people the right way and making

01:35:36.600 --> 01:35:40.529
sure that people have a life in this. long career

01:35:40.529 --> 01:35:42.729
in climbing and do it the right way and the best

01:35:42.729 --> 01:35:45.270
way possible is that that's why I created the

01:35:45.270 --> 01:35:48.829
bouldering progression formula was so that people

01:35:48.829 --> 01:35:51.390
can go through a full year and experience what

01:35:51.390 --> 01:35:54.689
it's like to truly train the right way and see

01:35:54.689 --> 01:35:57.430
the long -term improvements that come from when

01:35:57.430 --> 01:36:00.090
you stay consistent and learn all the right things

01:36:00.090 --> 01:36:02.649
through that year because I'm confident that

01:36:02.649 --> 01:36:05.149
when people come out of that and you've improved

01:36:05.149 --> 01:36:07.609
two to three grades in a year and you've learned

01:36:07.609 --> 01:36:10.380
through that experience that the rest of your

01:36:10.380 --> 01:36:13.539
career takes care of itself because now you have

01:36:13.539 --> 01:36:16.020
all of the understandings you know the right

01:36:16.020 --> 01:36:18.680
habits the way to approach it the way to you

01:36:18.680 --> 01:36:22.000
know manage your load and approach each day with

01:36:22.000 --> 01:36:24.920
the intention of improving that skill on that

01:36:24.920 --> 01:36:28.579
day within that focused phase where that's your

01:36:28.579 --> 01:36:32.000
focus of that you know two month period and i

01:36:32.000 --> 01:36:35.770
think people are just so scattered because one

01:36:35.770 --> 01:36:37.909
we're presented with so many ideas and also climbing

01:36:37.909 --> 01:36:42.720
seems so different at every move that you make

01:36:42.720 --> 01:36:47.159
whereas if you focus it's kind of everything

01:36:47.159 --> 01:36:49.020
it's like we're always distracted but if you

01:36:49.020 --> 01:36:52.420
focus on the right things at the right time the

01:36:52.989 --> 01:36:55.770
climbs take care of the you know the variety

01:36:55.770 --> 01:37:00.399
whereas your focus should be you know pinpointed

01:37:00.399 --> 01:37:02.680
basically but uh and it doesn't have to feel

01:37:02.680 --> 01:37:05.100
like training it can it can be very fun and uh

01:37:05.100 --> 01:37:08.729
yeah so that's really what i've my tool that

01:37:08.729 --> 01:37:10.899
i'm trying to use to to accomplish that hundred

01:37:10.899 --> 01:37:14.760
thousand people goal in a profound way okay and

01:37:14.760 --> 01:37:16.420
then do you want to tell people where they can

01:37:16.420 --> 01:37:18.840
find you and find all your links i'll also add

01:37:18.840 --> 01:37:21.319
them down below but oh yeah paradigm climbing

01:37:21.319 --> 01:37:24.319
coaching on instagram and paradigm climbing on

01:37:24.319 --> 01:37:27.640
youtube and i have a tick tock but i don't post

01:37:27.640 --> 01:37:30.850
enough and my website's paradigmclimbing .com

01:37:30.850 --> 01:37:33.050
well thank you again it was amazing to talk to

01:37:33.050 --> 01:37:35.189
you you too thank you so much for having me this

01:37:35.189 --> 01:37:38.720
is so much fun Thank you for listening to this

01:37:38.720 --> 01:37:40.739
episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.

01:37:41.300 --> 01:37:43.760
If you've been enjoying the podcast, I would

01:37:43.760 --> 01:37:46.220
appreciate if you like it on YouTube or rate

01:37:46.220 --> 01:37:49.199
it on your podcasting platform. And please leave

01:37:49.199 --> 01:37:51.920
a comment or reach out at any time if you have

01:37:51.920 --> 01:37:54.500
any thoughts. I try to read all of the messages.

01:37:55.560 --> 01:37:57.800
If you want to continue the discussion, join

01:37:57.800 --> 01:38:00.680
the free competition climbing discord where we

01:38:00.680 --> 01:38:03.979
chat live during the World Series comps and talk

01:38:03.979 --> 01:38:06.760
all things climbing. The link is in the description

01:38:06.760 --> 01:38:08.380
and see you next time.