69: Danaan Markey, PCL Co-Founder

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The first comps are being set right now, actually.

00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:07.259
Massive logistical feat. So many people commit

00:00:07.259 --> 00:00:10.359
everything to climbing for a few years and then

00:00:10.359 --> 00:00:14.060
there's nowhere else to go and they have to get

00:00:14.060 --> 00:00:17.910
a real job afterwards. Whole other pot of money

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that's actually currently bigger than the prize

00:00:19.809 --> 00:00:22.609
pot that we make sure we give to the athletes.

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For the guys, it was a really good level. It

00:00:26.500 --> 00:00:29.199
was just a couple of the women's boulders that

00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:32.700
were... slightly below the level. And that's

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the story that a lot of people remember. Welcome

00:00:36.259 --> 00:00:38.799
to another episode of the That's Now Real Climbing

00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:41.140
podcast. I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited

00:00:41.140 --> 00:00:43.399
to introduce my guest for today, Danaan Markey.

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Danaan is a Pro Climbing League co -founder,

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and they just released pre -sale tickets for

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the 2027 season. In this episode, we'll hear

00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.719
about the goal of PCL, learn about how they financed

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the huge prize pool, get responses to some of

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the biggest critiques of the first London comp,

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and we'll talk about how comp climbing is ethical

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climbing. I hope you enjoy this episode with

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Dannon. Please pardon this brief intermission,

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Well, first of all, are you recovered from all

00:02:05.950 --> 00:02:09.009
your jet lag? No, but I think I'm doing a lot

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better. I swear when I went out to Salt Lake

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City, I think I just had a tooth removed. I just

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had two teeth removed. Jeez. For what reason?

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The altitude wisdom tooth. It actually like came

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out horizontal and then took out the tooth in

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front of it. So I had them both removed. And

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then I was also, we were in like really. kind

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of key marketing time. So I was kind of still

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staying up for European meetings. I was like

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staying up to like 1, 2 a .m. for 9 a .m. European

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kickoff. And I just made a real mess of dealing

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with the jet lag on the way out. So I'm not sleeping

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very well, but it feels like everything else

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is much more relaxed this time, which is much

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nicer. Yeah, that's good. Have things like quieted

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down for you a bit now that you're done with

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the planning part and you're instead of in like

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the announcement part? No, no, no. Yeah, there's

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several different phases. So we were doing our

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fundraising before and that was quite intense

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for a while and then straight into marketing.

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And it was the kind of building the plan and

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getting that all set up. But then now we're in

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ticket sales and that's the maybe the most intense

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period apart from actually delivering the events.

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So it's just so many. We're going a lot bigger.

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We're really psyched, but we're putting everything

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we can into it to make sure it works. And in

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this stage, before we actually go on sale, there's

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so many unknowns that we want to just do our

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best on it. What part is the most fun for you?

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Of fundraising, announcing, ticket sales, the

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actual event itself? The actual event's amazing.

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It's crazy, the buzz and the feeling. I remember

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the first time I walked into London and saw the

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stage and just couldn't believe that it was something

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that our team had put together and created from

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essentially nothing. I really enjoy working with

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athletes and providing support. After the talk

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in Salt Lake City, there was actually a few athletes

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came up to us and said, hey, I've just rebooked

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my... flights to do the um the boulder fest qualifier

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and so um we ended up organizing a house and

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just hosting any athletes that made last minute

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changes uh which was super cool and little things

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like that they're always kind of ad hoc but i

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really like um doing that sort of thing anything

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crazy go down in this athlete house and the athlete

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i know it was very uh It was very formal. Everyone

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was in comp mode. Was it intense, like a rivalry

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going on? The finals were pretty intense, actually.

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I think Chloe really upset the field by taking

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the win, which was super cool to see. And she

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was totally in the zone. I think she was locked

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in. She knows this format is one that the PCL

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head -to -head format is one that she has a bit

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of a unique specialty on. I think she was really

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focused on making that work. And then the rest

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of it, like so much chatting and ideas and like

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feedback from the athletes, which was really,

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really cool. Like we talked about, they do it

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in football where they have, in the World Cup,

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I think that Messi had seven different emblems

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on his shirt for all the kind of awards. successes

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he'd made in previous world cups and uh we were

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talking about building something the same for

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that like highlighting who's the wildcard qualifier

00:06:01.470 --> 00:06:05.110
who won the last pcl who all these little um

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little bits of story that we can bring in to

00:06:08.250 --> 00:06:11.149
show like uh okay yeah there's there's a winner

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at the end of the night but all those athletes

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are doing so much to be there and how can we

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talk more about that hard work and the the different

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little wins that they're making that's not just

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So let's get into how this all started and also

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a little bit about your own background. So what

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is your climbing background like? And then what

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were you doing at the time when you had this

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idea for PCL with Charlie? Climbing background.

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So I got into climbing when I was 13, 14 years

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old, quite sparsely at the start. And I was really

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terrible. It took me quite a while to even do

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a pull up. I think it took me. Me too, yeah.

00:06:51.569 --> 00:06:56.250
five years to climb 7a so it was quite i thought

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you were gonna say five years to do a pull -up

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i was like okay that's not far off actually i

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think four years for a pull -up i don't believe

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that yeah yeah well i was prepubescent and very

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different i was like not not a very sporty child

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um and then but i think a nice theme of it was

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starting in quite rural ireland um relatively

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uh speaking rural ireland You know everyone that's

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going out climbing there on the whole island.

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You know what they're working on, what they're

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psyched on, who they're going with. It was such

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a close -knit community. And so I think starting

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off in that, really, I took that theme going

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forward. Then I went to Sheffield for university.

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I enrolled into university there, studied biomed.

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the focus really was to just climb more um and

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then that I and there I got a job at the climbing

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works which was probably the the real I went

00:08:00.829 --> 00:08:04.470
the real door opener for um getting into the

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deeply into the sport and uh the quiff climbing

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works international festival was the their kind

00:08:10.930 --> 00:08:14.250
of big project every year that I got really involved

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on and loved and um that Got me connected to

00:08:18.819 --> 00:08:21.480
so many climbers internationally. And again,

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feeling a part of that sort of core community.

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And then I finished uni and just traveled and

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climbed for quite a while. Got a part -time job.

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Got several part -time jobs, actually. Writing

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guidebooks, doing marketing for biotechs and

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route setting. And then after that, I ended up...

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I went to Munich to see a friend and right place,

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right time, ended up working with the German

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national team as an assistant coach, which was

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a really, really good learning experience. But

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also, I'd say the kind of core of how I got to

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start thinking about the PCL. And actually, so

00:09:11.129 --> 00:09:14.929
much of that came from... seeing how much all

00:09:14.929 --> 00:09:17.129
those athletes were really committing to the

00:09:17.129 --> 00:09:20.830
sport just going all of them moved to Munich

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enrolled in the university but they didn't really

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study and they were just 100 % in six sessions

00:09:26.990 --> 00:09:31.620
a week giving it all and there wasn't a whole

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lot that you would get in return there was even

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if you were going to win the comps it was very

00:09:39.659 --> 00:09:44.309
hard to make your money back so it was really

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eye -opening to see how much commitment they

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were putting in for kind of no expectations in

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return. And that was probably what started me

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thinking like, surely there's another way that

00:09:59.490 --> 00:10:03.370
we can give back to athletes and people that

00:10:03.370 --> 00:10:07.309
really love climbing for how much they're putting

00:10:07.309 --> 00:10:09.929
into it. And then after that, I was touring with

00:10:09.929 --> 00:10:12.879
the comp circuit for a wee while. I was co -commentating,

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which was super fun and a really nice way to

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engage with that properly international community

00:10:20.220 --> 00:10:23.500
of the sport. And then... Were you still assistant

00:10:23.500 --> 00:10:26.789
coach at the time? No, no, that was after. So

00:10:26.789 --> 00:10:29.870
post -COVID, I actually had some pretty bad knee

00:10:29.870 --> 00:10:32.230
problems. So I was kind of out for two years

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and then started to be around the comps after

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that. And then I was root setting for a while.

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And then I got a job at Patagonia where I was

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managing the sports marketing for EMEA. And that

00:10:46.419 --> 00:10:50.139
was a really, really good, good at giving that

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international perspective of how the sport and

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business works. And from there, that was probably

00:10:57.220 --> 00:11:02.789
the last kind of domino that then. After that,

00:11:02.830 --> 00:11:05.490
the PCL really got its own momentum and started

00:11:05.490 --> 00:11:07.289
to take off. Wow, yeah, you've done a little

00:11:07.289 --> 00:11:10.269
bit of everything. So then was there like a first

00:11:10.269 --> 00:11:12.330
moment where you were talking with Charlie and

00:11:12.330 --> 00:11:14.909
then you guys decided that you were going to

00:11:14.909 --> 00:11:16.830
do this and that you guys were capable of doing

00:11:16.830 --> 00:11:20.009
this? Yeah, honestly, it was the second time

00:11:20.009 --> 00:11:26.190
we met, I think. And it is such a moment. So

00:11:26.190 --> 00:11:29.830
the first time we met, it was with Stasia. Stasia

00:11:29.830 --> 00:11:32.509
Gayo is like a really close mutual friend of

00:11:32.509 --> 00:11:37.769
both of us. Stasia has actually been pretty intrinsic

00:11:37.769 --> 00:11:41.929
to many of the really core introductions that

00:11:41.929 --> 00:11:46.629
started the PCL. And we just met in Innsbruck

00:11:46.629 --> 00:11:52.269
and hung out for a drink. But then me and Charlie,

00:11:52.409 --> 00:11:54.690
I was interested in getting into commentating

00:11:54.690 --> 00:11:57.549
and it was actually him that really got me into

00:11:57.549 --> 00:12:02.419
that. profession but uh i i asked them on the

00:12:02.419 --> 00:12:05.429
night if we could catch up the next day and um

00:12:05.429 --> 00:12:08.350
or might have been a couple of days later but

00:12:08.350 --> 00:12:12.190
i remember we uh we met up and we started chatting

00:12:12.190 --> 00:12:16.529
and um i think there was just a few cues that

00:12:16.529 --> 00:12:20.190
each of us said about uh competitions and where

00:12:20.190 --> 00:12:22.850
it's going and what the potential is and we both

00:12:22.850 --> 00:12:26.909
like stumbled upon the fact that we both internally

00:12:26.909 --> 00:12:31.100
had the same idea of really there was much more

00:12:31.100 --> 00:12:33.179
potential for comps and a good opportunity to

00:12:33.179 --> 00:12:36.519
start a new series that could help lift up the

00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:40.159
sport as a whole so there was such a like boom

00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:44.179
moment of like oh my god this was not expected

00:12:44.179 --> 00:12:48.240
and i guess a pretty niche thought but we were

00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:52.240
both deeply committed to it and um later that

00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:54.960
day we we both shared like each other's plans

00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:59.539
that we had in our documents and That was, that

00:12:59.539 --> 00:13:03.200
was the real, it was a really cool and powerful

00:13:03.549 --> 00:13:08.750
moment that still definitely resonates. But the

00:13:08.750 --> 00:13:11.070
second half of your question of like, when did

00:13:11.070 --> 00:13:13.750
we know we could do it? That's much more complicated

00:13:13.750 --> 00:13:17.370
because we basically thought we could do it and

00:13:17.370 --> 00:13:20.409
successively over the years realized that we

00:13:20.409 --> 00:13:23.669
had a lot to learn. So I think that that moment

00:13:23.669 --> 00:13:27.350
of meeting Charlie was definitely like. the real

00:13:27.350 --> 00:13:31.490
genesis of it. But there's so many people along

00:13:31.490 --> 00:13:35.509
the way that were so like consequential and essential

00:13:35.509 --> 00:13:40.669
to each stage of development of the idea. And

00:13:40.669 --> 00:13:44.690
then finally the league. Charlie was the first

00:13:44.690 --> 00:13:49.169
point, but then not long after we met Neil, one

00:13:49.169 --> 00:13:52.529
of the other co -founders who incredible how

00:13:52.529 --> 00:13:57.659
much patience he gave us. considering how experienced

00:13:57.659 --> 00:14:01.100
he was in events and actually gave us the time

00:14:01.100 --> 00:14:04.379
of day and believed in the project and Ilko,

00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:08.639
the final director, again, when I was really

00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:12.299
looking at fundraising, he gave us the time to

00:14:12.299 --> 00:14:16.240
actually build a business that was investable

00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:21.899
and growable. But outside of that, it's all the

00:14:21.899 --> 00:14:26.149
climbing world and the climbing community. We've

00:14:26.149 --> 00:14:29.190
been sort of chasing them the whole time and

00:14:29.190 --> 00:14:32.129
we've got so much good feedback, particularly

00:14:32.129 --> 00:14:35.970
from like athletes and coaches. I think all of

00:14:35.970 --> 00:14:40.230
them have heard me yap on for ages and many of

00:14:40.230 --> 00:14:43.389
the big brands in the industry. But a few really

00:14:43.389 --> 00:14:46.850
key moments definitely made a lot of the bigger

00:14:46.850 --> 00:14:52.230
steps in the development. I think Saggy sitting

00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:55.500
me down and telling me. this is the format you've

00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:57.399
got to use, this is the one that's going to work,

00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:02.019
was absolutely one of the biggest turning points

00:15:02.019 --> 00:15:07.480
for the whole project. And another point later

00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:10.220
down the line, Kilter, really making that step

00:15:10.220 --> 00:15:14.720
to support our very first test events was so,

00:15:14.740 --> 00:15:19.179
so cool of them. And so, yeah, a lot of thanks

00:15:19.179 --> 00:15:22.860
going out to those guys. And then, yeah, the

00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:26.899
kind of next stage is the team at Red Bull, Alex,

00:15:27.019 --> 00:15:31.000
Luca and Vicky, all showing a lot of support

00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:34.679
and helping us get off, get really serious and

00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:38.360
out to the wider world. And then the investors

00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:41.840
after that, again, lots of people that believed

00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.840
in us as we built this. The seed investors really

00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:51.080
took a proper belief in us. And then Gabby at...

00:15:51.629 --> 00:15:55.690
our lead investor is um really cool to see how

00:15:55.690 --> 00:15:58.750
much she believed and supports this this project

00:15:58.750 --> 00:16:01.370
for the the mission and the values that it has

00:16:01.370 --> 00:16:05.149
so yeah a little i think maybe it's a it's a

00:16:05.149 --> 00:16:08.269
it's another one to maybe another podcast to

00:16:08.269 --> 00:16:11.490
really dive into the whole story but uh so many

00:16:11.490 --> 00:16:14.830
cool people really believing in us as we went

00:16:14.830 --> 00:16:17.700
along the journey that took us here And was Sagi

00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:20.519
already the head coach? Were you assistant coach

00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:24.559
at that time? No, I'd left before Sagi started,

00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:28.960
but we obviously became quite close friends quite

00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:34.659
soon. And it was during that year that I was

00:16:34.659 --> 00:16:38.440
going around commentating that I spoke a lot

00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.200
to a lot of the coaches and in particular Sagi.

00:16:42.620 --> 00:16:45.299
He's got a lot of opinions, I feel like. Yeah,

00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:50.860
yeah. He had the psych and the knowledge to actually

00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:55.750
bring it to life and show us what it could be

00:16:55.750 --> 00:16:58.870
on several pieces of paper at a lunch table one

00:16:58.870 --> 00:17:01.490
day. I didn't know he played such an important

00:17:01.490 --> 00:17:04.009
part in it. He sat me down one day and was like,

00:17:04.109 --> 00:17:07.910
you need to hear about this format. Yeah. So

00:17:07.910 --> 00:17:12.589
was he like the ideator of this format? So we'd

00:17:12.589 --> 00:17:14.730
looked at head -to -head format and we'd looked

00:17:14.730 --> 00:17:19.109
at knockout format. We were around at the Rockmasters

00:17:19.109 --> 00:17:23.170
and other events. But he was the one that really

00:17:23.170 --> 00:17:25.690
put the puzzle pieces together and said like

00:17:25.690 --> 00:17:30.970
the big thing was, because I'd always thought

00:17:30.970 --> 00:17:33.410
head -to -head, but someone's going to get kicked

00:17:33.410 --> 00:17:36.509
out per round. And then he went through and explained

00:17:36.509 --> 00:17:40.089
like, no, you can do multiple boulders in each

00:17:40.089 --> 00:17:42.950
round. And then actually that's what brought

00:17:42.950 --> 00:17:45.730
it together is, okay, there's a kind of meat

00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:48.210
to the climbing and you can get a lot done in

00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:51.529
this head -to -head rather than one knockout

00:17:51.529 --> 00:17:54.289
per boulder. And so you mentioned that Kilter

00:17:54.289 --> 00:17:58.190
played a big part as well. Is it just like using

00:17:58.190 --> 00:18:00.009
their walls and they also help out with setting?

00:18:00.750 --> 00:18:06.109
So, yeah, they've really supported in kind of

00:18:06.109 --> 00:18:09.619
helping build that product. The adjustable boards

00:18:09.619 --> 00:18:12.339
are a really key part of it, but they were hosting

00:18:12.339 --> 00:18:17.299
our very first test events way, way back and

00:18:17.299 --> 00:18:20.839
have really joined us on the journey the whole

00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:25.299
time in understanding and shaping the format

00:18:25.299 --> 00:18:31.039
and then hosting all of the pre -setting for

00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:34.190
the next season. So our setting for the last

00:18:34.190 --> 00:18:37.049
season was actually set in Coors facility in

00:18:37.049 --> 00:18:40.289
UK, which was such a cool and special setup.

00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:44.089
And now Kilter have a facility in Fontainebleau,

00:18:44.150 --> 00:18:47.170
actually, that is now going to host the setting

00:18:47.170 --> 00:18:49.730
for the whole next season. And I think it's going

00:18:49.730 --> 00:18:52.690
to be a really cool hub for coming up with new

00:18:52.690 --> 00:18:56.109
ideas and concepts and pushing new styles of

00:18:56.109 --> 00:18:59.269
setting forward. So I'm actually super psyched.

00:18:59.809 --> 00:19:01.690
spend more time there and see how it develops

00:19:01.690 --> 00:19:04.029
over the next seasons how far in advance are

00:19:04.029 --> 00:19:07.930
these things set like the boulders are set what

00:19:07.930 --> 00:19:09.650
like month like now like they're working on it

00:19:09.650 --> 00:19:12.410
right now so the the first comps are being set

00:19:12.410 --> 00:19:15.170
right now actually oh that's crazy and um yeah

00:19:15.170 --> 00:19:18.940
there's a whole it's a massive logistical feat

00:19:18.940 --> 00:19:22.319
because all we get the first batch of holds in

00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.579
and we we set with a larger selection of holds

00:19:25.579 --> 00:19:28.240
and then we know exactly which holes we need

00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.960
duplicates of and then we get the next holes

00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:34.819
in and then the boulders need duplicated and

00:19:34.819 --> 00:19:39.420
then the whole resetting structure needs to be

00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:43.019
orchestrated and planned out and there's actually

00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:47.480
some quite exciting concepts in design for the

00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:50.460
next season which I'm sure people will find out

00:19:50.460 --> 00:19:54.640
in the near future but yeah it's a huge huge

00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:59.039
logistical operation and uh but really exciting

00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:01.539
and really interesting it allows us to do very

00:20:01.539 --> 00:20:05.400
different things with climbs and the whole competition

00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:10.930
concept um but then we also uh we're developing

00:20:10.930 --> 00:20:13.130
some new and interesting technology around this

00:20:13.130 --> 00:20:17.130
to make everything much more exciting and um

00:20:17.130 --> 00:20:20.049
hopefully you'll be hearing about that soon enough

00:20:20.049 --> 00:20:22.269
as well well you know people are going to say

00:20:22.269 --> 00:20:24.470
you've had three months to set it better be good

00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:33.160
Yeah, it's a never -ending story for setters.

00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:37.700
We give the setters a lot more time and space

00:20:37.700 --> 00:20:41.900
than current comps, but there is an upper limit.

00:20:42.259 --> 00:20:45.680
It does help to just kind of work to pressure

00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.859
and create the comp. Oh, for sure, yeah. There's

00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:53.079
no right answer, unfortunately, but we use this

00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:58.089
to... sort of raise up the working conditions

00:20:58.089 --> 00:21:01.589
of centers as well, which is another big part

00:21:01.589 --> 00:21:05.589
of the mission of the league. I think a lot of

00:21:05.589 --> 00:21:07.549
people want to know, like a few people in the

00:21:07.549 --> 00:21:10.470
audience wanted to know, what is the goal of

00:21:10.470 --> 00:21:14.250
PCL? That's a really good question. And I kind

00:21:14.250 --> 00:21:18.549
of had a, I had this grand idea when I was starting

00:21:18.549 --> 00:21:22.789
out. A lot of that was about kind of support

00:21:22.789 --> 00:21:27.180
and validation. As we've become bigger and bigger

00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:30.359
and really making quite consequential decisions,

00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:34.259
I've realized how prominent that single thought

00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:40.480
and mission has, holding onto that actually really

00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:44.220
shapes how we make these decisions. So the goal

00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:48.140
of PCL is, and I try to spray it in as many places

00:21:48.140 --> 00:21:51.440
as I can, but it's to support athletes and people

00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:54.470
that love the sport. And I think, as I mentioned

00:21:54.470 --> 00:21:58.490
before, the amount of passion and love and commitment

00:21:58.490 --> 00:22:02.809
that people put into climbing, it's really incredible

00:22:02.809 --> 00:22:06.230
and powerful. And I really want to build a structure

00:22:06.230 --> 00:22:10.309
that gives back to that and allows athletes and

00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:14.170
climbers to be able to make a living from climbing.

00:22:14.450 --> 00:22:18.750
I think so many people commit everything to climbing

00:22:18.750 --> 00:22:22.660
for a few years and then... There's nowhere else

00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:25.640
to go and they have to get a real job afterwards.

00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:31.299
And you kind of, it is really a shame and a sadness

00:22:31.299 --> 00:22:35.980
that people have to kind of drop out of the sport

00:22:35.980 --> 00:22:39.099
and therefore many ways the community because

00:22:39.099 --> 00:22:42.779
of that. And so I want to build this structure

00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:47.910
that can really support that, that has opportunities

00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:51.200
for people. to climb professionally, to work

00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:55.160
in events and in the wider industry. And they

00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:59.039
can look to do it long term. And I think a really

00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:04.000
key part of it is to be seen as successful. I

00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.599
remember back in my day, the highest achievement

00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:10.839
you could get was to save up for a van and someone

00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:12.859
gave you a free pair of shoes and you're like,

00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:15.380
OK, I've made it. And your parents would never

00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:19.839
speak to you again. You'd be on the road for

00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:23.900
a year and you were not to be spoken of by the

00:23:23.900 --> 00:23:28.359
rest of the family. And so I think there's something

00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:32.869
really true about how deeply people want that

00:23:32.869 --> 00:23:38.950
and how I think climbing really saves and supports

00:23:38.950 --> 00:23:42.049
a lot of people that struggle in other parts

00:23:42.049 --> 00:23:45.819
of life and they really want to find security

00:23:45.819 --> 00:23:49.640
in that community. And so I really want to support

00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:52.539
that and validate that. And I want someone to

00:23:52.539 --> 00:23:56.000
feel like they're successful and they've achieved

00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.220
by committing everything they can and they want

00:23:59.220 --> 00:24:03.759
to to the sport. So that's the goal of PCL. Yeah.

00:24:03.819 --> 00:24:06.099
So definitely like a lot of professionalization.

00:24:06.339 --> 00:24:09.240
But what so like what does it take to make climbing

00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.740
into a career? Like what is your vision of a

00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:15.250
lifelong career as a climber? There's definitely

00:24:15.250 --> 00:24:20.650
a few different angles of it. At the start, it's

00:24:20.650 --> 00:24:23.589
collecting enough resource to support people

00:24:23.589 --> 00:24:27.650
and pay them for the work and the competitions

00:24:27.650 --> 00:24:31.029
they're doing. And so at a starting point, we

00:24:31.029 --> 00:24:34.150
can, by organizing these large events and getting

00:24:34.150 --> 00:24:37.529
sponsorships and selling tickets, we have a pot

00:24:37.529 --> 00:24:39.890
of money that we can then pay out to athletes.

00:24:40.849 --> 00:24:43.450
athletes definitely are the the reason that people

00:24:43.450 --> 00:24:46.670
want to come to all the comps and so treating

00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:50.519
them for their their true value is is i think

00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:53.819
necessary but also is what is going to allow

00:24:53.819 --> 00:24:57.539
them to keep doing what they love so that's the

00:24:57.539 --> 00:25:00.619
kind of starting point but then there's just

00:25:00.619 --> 00:25:04.660
so many different branches that grow out of that

00:25:04.660 --> 00:25:08.910
there's a the kind of comms opportunities that

00:25:08.910 --> 00:25:11.490
athletes could have around the events in the

00:25:11.490 --> 00:25:16.430
future such as commentator or presenter or pundits

00:25:16.430 --> 00:25:20.849
and there's like influencer creator angle as

00:25:20.849 --> 00:25:23.670
well is definitely one we already see some athletes

00:25:23.670 --> 00:25:26.170
that are kind of post -competition years moving

00:25:26.170 --> 00:25:30.680
towards then there's all these different things

00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.799
that pop up around the events just as they become

00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:37.299
more of a known and reputable thing. So sponsors

00:25:37.299 --> 00:25:40.059
that speak to the main event want to know like,

00:25:40.099 --> 00:25:41.960
oh, well, we'd love to connect to some athletes

00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.059
as well. And we can put them through. Gyms want

00:25:45.059 --> 00:25:47.759
to organize meet and greets and signing sessions.

00:25:48.940 --> 00:25:51.460
There's lots of little business models that we

00:25:51.460 --> 00:25:54.240
can build around the main events that support

00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:58.700
everyone in climbing. And it grows into this

00:25:58.700 --> 00:26:03.089
much bigger thing. And certainly as we start

00:26:03.089 --> 00:26:06.230
to get more mainstream attention, I think the

00:26:06.230 --> 00:26:08.529
scale of those opportunities are going to rise

00:26:08.529 --> 00:26:13.730
pretty rapidly. And we're excited to bring people

00:26:13.730 --> 00:26:16.890
on this journey with us and create a big family

00:26:16.890 --> 00:26:19.549
that is psyched to bring the sport to the next

00:26:19.549 --> 00:26:21.970
level. Speaking of climbing influencers, there's

00:26:21.970 --> 00:26:24.720
like so many. people in the comp scene now who

00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:28.480
are doing like youtube and stuff and i remember

00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:31.400
hearing talks when yanya started her channel

00:26:31.400 --> 00:26:34.740
people were like oh this is like the beginning

00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:37.019
of the end like she's starting a channel so that

00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:41.140
she has like a a next thing to do after quitting

00:26:41.140 --> 00:26:44.180
competing and all that you think that's the case

00:26:44.180 --> 00:26:47.599
is she quitting soon no i actually yanya and

00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:51.180
her team do incredible work for just raising

00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:54.220
the profile of the sport as a whole and everything

00:26:54.220 --> 00:26:57.759
that they do actually has uh an angle of that

00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:01.339
so uh while it is it's it's all yanya and her

00:27:01.339 --> 00:27:03.839
channels actually the work that she's done to

00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:06.980
just raise the bar for climbing in total and

00:27:06.980 --> 00:27:10.819
to get eyes involved that were not did not used

00:27:10.819 --> 00:27:13.660
to be climbers so the great examples the the

00:27:13.660 --> 00:27:16.099
last video she put out was with max for seven

00:27:16.099 --> 00:27:18.910
oh yeah and there's no climbing in that But the

00:27:18.910 --> 00:27:21.809
whole point is to get other parts of the world

00:27:21.809 --> 00:27:24.410
to look in and get to know Janja and be like,

00:27:24.470 --> 00:27:26.269
oh, what's this climbing thing going on? And

00:27:26.269 --> 00:27:30.789
then build up climbing. So they do really incredible

00:27:30.789 --> 00:27:35.420
work there. But then on that deeper question

00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:40.559
of the beginning of the end, Janja is such a

00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:46.630
competitive person that I think that's... I don't

00:27:46.630 --> 00:27:49.809
think she's planning that far. I think she knows

00:27:49.809 --> 00:27:52.829
what she wants to do the next years and she'll

00:27:52.829 --> 00:27:56.029
make the call when she thinks it's right. But

00:27:56.029 --> 00:27:59.490
right now I think she's fully into competing

00:27:59.490 --> 00:28:02.289
and being the best athlete she can be. Yeah.

00:28:02.309 --> 00:28:06.230
Okay. So thinking about like the huge prize pools

00:28:06.230 --> 00:28:08.910
that you guys are offering in order to make the

00:28:08.910 --> 00:28:12.230
sport more professional, can you give some insight

00:28:12.230 --> 00:28:15.630
into the financing and how you guys? got so much

00:28:15.630 --> 00:28:18.329
funding, especially compared to what seems like

00:28:18.329 --> 00:28:22.069
what world climbing has access to? Yeah, so there's

00:28:22.069 --> 00:28:26.029
that's obviously a pretty complicated question.

00:28:26.470 --> 00:28:28.970
Please excuse this brief intermission, but if

00:28:28.970 --> 00:28:30.970
you're interested in ad -free episodes and would

00:28:30.970 --> 00:28:33.049
like to unlock over four hours of deleted scenes,

00:28:33.289 --> 00:28:36.069
including one where Danon talks about why highball

00:28:36.069 --> 00:28:38.730
bouldering was scrapped for PCL and how Pete

00:28:38.730 --> 00:28:40.710
Whitaker changed his mind about crack climbing,

00:28:40.930 --> 00:28:44.089
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Some other perks include a membership pin shipped

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to you after two months, early release episodes,

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and more to come. The proceeds go back in the

00:28:52.250 --> 00:28:54.390
podcast to help me break even, and they help

00:28:54.390 --> 00:28:57.029
me improve the experience of the guests. If you'd

00:28:57.029 --> 00:28:59.390
like to help out non -monetarily, liking, commenting,

00:28:59.529 --> 00:29:02.329
and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back

00:29:02.329 --> 00:29:05.869
to the show. So we've done a fundraise with investors,

00:29:06.069 --> 00:29:10.059
and we're actually pretty proud of our... the

00:29:10.059 --> 00:29:12.220
collective of investors we brought together.

00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:16.460
Our seed investors were all really core climbers

00:29:16.460 --> 00:29:19.500
that had kind of made a living from the sport

00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:21.740
or living outside, but really wanted to be a

00:29:21.740 --> 00:29:23.900
part of the sport. And that was a super cool

00:29:23.900 --> 00:29:27.099
group to be able to get involved and have that

00:29:27.099 --> 00:29:30.339
guidance. And then we've got a really good group

00:29:30.339 --> 00:29:34.440
together for this next round, particularly the

00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:39.769
lead investment, the lead VC. Their whole remit

00:29:39.769 --> 00:29:43.009
is investing in passion -led founders, which

00:29:43.009 --> 00:29:47.329
I'm sure we're finding the other end of that

00:29:47.329 --> 00:29:50.549
at some point when they're like, these guys are

00:29:50.549 --> 00:29:55.769
too passionate. So that gives us a really comfortable

00:29:55.769 --> 00:29:58.789
and happy space in terms of what we have to work

00:29:58.789 --> 00:30:01.190
with. And it allows us to really keep the promises

00:30:01.190 --> 00:30:04.769
we have for the next two years of events and

00:30:04.769 --> 00:30:07.849
to build these prize pools that we think is...

00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:16.099
reciprocal to the kind of work and profile that

00:30:16.099 --> 00:30:19.819
the athletes have I think important to say that

00:30:19.819 --> 00:30:23.460
the prize pot is less than half of the budget

00:30:23.460 --> 00:30:28.700
for athletes so we cover all the travel and most

00:30:28.700 --> 00:30:31.700
of the athletes have comms commitments that we

00:30:31.700 --> 00:30:36.579
pay for and there's a kind of whole other pot

00:30:36.579 --> 00:30:38.460
of money that's actually currently bigger than

00:30:38.460 --> 00:30:41.339
the prize pot that we make sure we give to the

00:30:41.339 --> 00:30:43.480
athletes. I feel like typically when people think

00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.799
about financing these big events, it's like sponsors

00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:50.680
and they just like give you the money and then

00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:53.759
they get like ad space or whatever. So in this

00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:56.519
case, it sounds like actual investors. Do they

00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:01.859
get like a cut of profits or they get like...

00:31:02.380 --> 00:31:05.140
a percentage of the company like is this a shark

00:31:05.140 --> 00:31:08.660
tank situation or how does that work so it is

00:31:08.660 --> 00:31:13.079
a it that is how investing works they yeah i'm

00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:16.660
not too familiar i don't have the funds anyone

00:31:16.660 --> 00:31:20.819
in financing is uh crying right now but yeah

00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:24.160
they they invest for a percentage of ownership

00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.619
of the company and then the whole point is that

00:31:26.619 --> 00:31:30.609
they can sell that percentage in the future We

00:31:30.609 --> 00:31:34.490
do have sponsors as well, and we're going to

00:31:34.490 --> 00:31:37.670
have quite a few more for the next season. But

00:31:37.670 --> 00:31:40.049
I think one of the nice things is that we're

00:31:40.049 --> 00:31:43.210
not totally owned by one person or one party.

00:31:43.509 --> 00:31:47.670
And it means that our incentives are diversified

00:31:47.670 --> 00:31:49.470
enough that we can really make sure we're doing

00:31:49.470 --> 00:31:52.049
this for climbing, people that love the sport,

00:31:52.170 --> 00:31:55.450
rather than for one person that has to tell us

00:31:55.450 --> 00:31:58.069
what to do the whole time. Another big part of

00:31:58.069 --> 00:32:01.049
the financing is obviously the audiences and

00:32:01.049 --> 00:32:04.630
the ticket sales. And so that is probably our

00:32:04.630 --> 00:32:10.609
biggest master, I'd say. At this stage of the

00:32:10.609 --> 00:32:12.930
journey, we feel we really want to prove that

00:32:12.930 --> 00:32:14.970
demand and that psych amongst the communities.

00:32:15.190 --> 00:32:19.150
And so that's the one that we really listen to

00:32:19.150 --> 00:32:22.430
as much as possible and shape the product around.

00:32:22.750 --> 00:32:25.819
Yeah, so I think... Going into this part, I wanted

00:32:25.819 --> 00:32:28.200
to go over some of like the top criticisms from

00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.920
last part or from the last comp. So it was heavily

00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:33.579
advertised that this is not speed bouldering.

00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:36.160
I feel like that was said several times. Do you

00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.339
feel like it kind of ended up like speed bouldering

00:32:38.339 --> 00:32:42.279
anyway? It ended up, the boulders were a little

00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:46.160
softer than we would have liked. So for some

00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:49.519
of the rounds, particularly the men's, we had

00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.839
like really good separation. Being able to separate

00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:58.579
by holds really means that you can put hard boulders

00:32:58.579 --> 00:33:02.420
on the wall and still get a score. And we have

00:33:02.420 --> 00:33:07.170
full, this is going to be a question in every

00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:09.549
climbing comp, like is the setting the right

00:33:09.549 --> 00:33:13.670
level? And we fully back the decisions we made

00:33:13.670 --> 00:33:16.329
to work with the crew that we did and to give

00:33:16.329 --> 00:33:21.170
them the setup that they had. There's always

00:33:21.170 --> 00:33:23.289
going to be that question of if the level's right.

00:33:23.470 --> 00:33:27.470
And the two sides of it are that people don't

00:33:27.470 --> 00:33:31.009
get halfway up the boulder versus people get

00:33:31.009 --> 00:33:35.650
up the boulder first try. And in that scenario

00:33:35.650 --> 00:33:38.150
where they both get up the boulder first try,

00:33:38.289 --> 00:33:43.349
it will feel like speed bouldering. But it's

00:33:43.349 --> 00:33:46.910
something that we're aware of and we're motivated

00:33:46.910 --> 00:33:51.430
to keep working on. I wouldn't say the whole

00:33:51.430 --> 00:33:54.799
event was a speed bouldering comp at all. I think

00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:57.880
we definitely did get the right level in some

00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:03.319
places. And there's a lot of positives that come

00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:06.500
from that style of head -to -head format. I think

00:34:06.500 --> 00:34:09.900
that's the question everyone has is if it's head

00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:12.800
-to -head, then it has to be speed. But there's

00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:14.599
so many good things that come from it. One of

00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.219
it, it's quite self -correcting in many ways.

00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:22.380
currently in a traditional format you spend the

00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:26.900
most amount of time watching the lowest performing

00:34:26.900 --> 00:34:30.219
climbers so someone that doesn't do the boulder

00:34:30.219 --> 00:34:33.659
you'll spend four minutes watching them and then

00:34:33.659 --> 00:34:38.309
the likes of a yanya is getting 25 30 seconds

00:34:38.309 --> 00:34:41.550
screen time and then she's out again and so this

00:34:41.550 --> 00:34:43.889
was a really big thing that we wanted to correct

00:34:43.889 --> 00:34:49.389
and then Another big one is the kind of beta

00:34:49.389 --> 00:34:53.090
learning in the comp and in many of our test

00:34:53.090 --> 00:34:56.309
events. When one person figures out the beta,

00:34:56.510 --> 00:35:00.510
the other athlete sees it and actually can progress

00:35:00.510 --> 00:35:05.190
alongside at the same rate. And so there's such

00:35:05.190 --> 00:35:09.030
an interesting tactical element that goes on

00:35:09.030 --> 00:35:11.909
there that we're only at the beginning stages

00:35:11.909 --> 00:35:15.969
of kind of understanding how to work with. I

00:35:15.969 --> 00:35:19.750
think over the next season, you'll see the athletes

00:35:19.750 --> 00:35:22.190
kind of learn these little bits and these little

00:35:22.190 --> 00:35:25.090
tactics and adapt. And then there'll be a much

00:35:25.090 --> 00:35:28.150
more interesting competition throughout with

00:35:28.150 --> 00:35:31.469
the kind of subplot going. In terms of the setting

00:35:31.469 --> 00:35:33.789
and difficulty, wouldn't it be better to err

00:35:33.789 --> 00:35:36.110
on the side of being too difficult since every

00:35:36.110 --> 00:35:40.190
hold counts as like a next score? Yeah, yeah,

00:35:40.230 --> 00:35:44.360
which is what we did. And that was the... the

00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:47.780
brief into the setting team and the comp went

00:35:47.780 --> 00:35:50.159
the way it did for the guys. It was a really

00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:53.619
good level. And it was just a couple of the women's

00:35:53.619 --> 00:35:56.199
boulders that were slightly below the level.

00:35:56.360 --> 00:35:59.699
And that's the story that a lot of people remember.

00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:02.639
But I actually think we had a pretty good comp

00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:07.139
otherwise. And absolutely, it is not an easy

00:36:07.139 --> 00:36:11.280
job for the setters. They're pre -setting in

00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:14.099
a separate facility. And then trying to really

00:36:14.099 --> 00:36:16.659
understand, okay, what are the level of the athletes?

00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:19.800
What are the conditions in the arena? Because

00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:23.260
you're going to pack it with 3 ,000, 4 ,000 people.

00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:26.039
How are the holes going to feel? What is the

00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:29.059
humidity? We have adjustable boards as well,

00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:31.659
and we can make calls right before the round

00:36:31.659 --> 00:36:35.460
starts on should it be steeper or less steep.

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:39.840
And so it's a really tough job. And the setters

00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:42.670
came to us afterwards and said that they... Learned

00:36:42.670 --> 00:36:45.610
a lot from how they delivered the format at that

00:36:45.610 --> 00:36:50.530
event. And we're really motivated to invest in

00:36:50.530 --> 00:36:53.329
that and keep that, build with them the knowledge

00:36:53.329 --> 00:36:57.889
of working with this format. So I think everyone

00:36:57.889 --> 00:37:01.449
was doing their best and we absolutely had the

00:37:01.449 --> 00:37:04.449
best team at the time. And we're psyched to keep

00:37:04.449 --> 00:37:07.119
working with them and build upon it. I know like

00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:09.900
last time you mentioned you wanted to move away

00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:12.420
from like comp climbing not being real climbing

00:37:12.420 --> 00:37:15.739
so how did you try to achieve that? That's a

00:37:15.739 --> 00:37:20.380
really interesting one because it was there was

00:37:20.380 --> 00:37:23.880
a point there's a point where you don't you don't

00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:26.460
lean in too strictly with what it needs to be

00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:29.760
and how it needs to and and shaping the style

00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:33.250
of it like Sergio was the head setter and at

00:37:33.250 --> 00:37:35.510
the end of the day, it's his call if the boulder

00:37:35.510 --> 00:37:37.889
is going to work or not. And so we really need

00:37:37.889 --> 00:37:40.989
him to be doing that job. And we can all have

00:37:40.989 --> 00:37:43.889
ideas and thoughts, but actually he's the most

00:37:43.889 --> 00:37:46.889
experienced person at making that decision. And

00:37:46.889 --> 00:37:50.650
so there was lots of chats and meetings about

00:37:50.650 --> 00:37:52.949
what it could be and what we'd like to work towards.

00:37:53.190 --> 00:37:57.389
But at the end of the day, it's really down to

00:37:57.389 --> 00:38:01.659
Sergio and how he manages the team. And so there's

00:38:01.659 --> 00:38:04.880
definitely chats around like trying to move away

00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:08.179
from the kind of four different styles of boulder

00:38:08.179 --> 00:38:11.739
that we currently see and mix it up and change

00:38:11.739 --> 00:38:17.920
things. And there's chats about integrating some

00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.539
more old school style back into it. But these

00:38:21.539 --> 00:38:23.719
conversations, I'm sure, are happening at world

00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:28.050
climbing events as well. And it's a... It's a

00:38:28.050 --> 00:38:30.530
nice and exciting process and we're really keen

00:38:30.530 --> 00:38:34.969
to see where the setting team takes it over the

00:38:34.969 --> 00:38:38.550
next season. But there is a point where we have

00:38:38.550 --> 00:38:42.210
to let the setters do their job and we can't

00:38:42.210 --> 00:38:45.190
force them too much. Yeah, this is just top of

00:38:45.190 --> 00:38:47.110
mind for me because I had recently put out a

00:38:47.110 --> 00:38:51.789
video about the craziness of setting and world

00:38:51.789 --> 00:38:54.650
climbing and like flashy moves and comp style

00:38:54.650 --> 00:38:57.829
moves. Do you feel like this format makes it

00:38:57.829 --> 00:39:01.050
easier to achieve separation without doing like

00:39:01.050 --> 00:39:05.570
crazy dinos or like super flashy long run and

00:39:05.570 --> 00:39:10.730
jump moves? Yes, definitely. But there's absolutely

00:39:10.730 --> 00:39:15.929
like a coordination move that you have to learn

00:39:15.929 --> 00:39:20.590
is a really kind of easy option for separation.

00:39:20.889 --> 00:39:26.030
And so, but we kind of don't want to. lean into

00:39:26.030 --> 00:39:29.250
that we don't want to use that too much so that

00:39:29.250 --> 00:39:32.690
is the the whole point of separating by holds

00:39:32.690 --> 00:39:37.090
that we we can start to have more opportunities

00:39:37.090 --> 00:39:40.010
within a climb to create different scores and

00:39:40.010 --> 00:39:42.849
i think a really big part of that is the size

00:39:42.849 --> 00:39:44.949
of the walls in the next season is going to be

00:39:44.949 --> 00:39:47.269
bigger so there's going to be much more holds

00:39:47.269 --> 00:39:50.429
there was a lot of limitations on what we could

00:39:50.429 --> 00:39:54.130
do in this first event and um there we've we've

00:39:54.590 --> 00:39:56.849
taken the learnings and adapted every single

00:39:56.849 --> 00:40:00.929
thing that we we could we can um for the next

00:40:00.929 --> 00:40:05.510
ones um so that as the there's more moves in

00:40:05.510 --> 00:40:07.010
the boulder there's going to be more separation

00:40:07.010 --> 00:40:10.670
as well and then at the end of the day we we

00:40:10.670 --> 00:40:14.449
can always it's tends to be this the fourth third

00:40:14.449 --> 00:40:17.309
or fourth metric that we call it by but we can

00:40:17.309 --> 00:40:20.710
always separate by time and uh that one is pretty

00:40:20.710 --> 00:40:25.489
infinite so um Yeah, there's, I think, much better

00:40:25.489 --> 00:40:28.909
opportunity to separate climbers and try to really

00:40:28.909 --> 00:40:32.030
work on those almost old school style boulders.

00:40:32.269 --> 00:40:36.690
So I feel like it's a lot of climbers who want

00:40:36.690 --> 00:40:39.969
to see old school climbing because that's like

00:40:39.969 --> 00:40:42.670
what they're used to. That's what they can do

00:40:42.670 --> 00:40:45.050
and what they have experience with and what they

00:40:45.050 --> 00:40:49.210
can get in their own gyms. And then I know like

00:40:49.210 --> 00:40:52.849
part of your goal with PCL is to also... increase

00:40:52.849 --> 00:40:55.309
the viewership so that it reaches people who

00:40:55.309 --> 00:40:58.190
aren't climbers as well so like do you know if

00:40:58.190 --> 00:41:01.050
non -climbers prefer to see the flash air moves

00:41:01.050 --> 00:41:03.750
or do they enjoy like old school climbing just

00:41:03.750 --> 00:41:07.369
as much i think absolutely seeing the head -to

00:41:07.369 --> 00:41:11.889
-head makes the biggest difference and that can

00:41:11.889 --> 00:41:14.690
be old school or a new school and the tendency

00:41:14.690 --> 00:41:18.280
actually i think head -to -head when both people

00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:20.719
are on the wall at the same time is that the

00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:24.420
thing that glows up when we we post it anytime

00:41:24.420 --> 00:41:30.199
on on socials so um that one there is such an

00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:33.579
there's a whole other dimension when you see

00:41:33.579 --> 00:41:35.900
two people climbing head to head one you can

00:41:35.900 --> 00:41:39.400
see like the the similarity of the beta needed

00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:43.230
to do it but also you can see each athlete's

00:41:43.230 --> 00:41:46.750
strengths and styles start to appear and i think

00:41:46.750 --> 00:41:49.630
that's really cool and for me a big part of that

00:41:49.630 --> 00:41:52.449
is a big part of the whole reason we want wanted

00:41:52.449 --> 00:41:54.210
to use the head -to -head format was actually

00:41:54.210 --> 00:41:56.590
so that we could tell better stories about the

00:41:56.590 --> 00:42:00.730
athletes and so we can point out like oh Tomoa

00:42:00.730 --> 00:42:04.929
has this really bouncy style or oh Colin has

00:42:04.929 --> 00:42:08.510
insane core and finger strength and you can see

00:42:08.510 --> 00:42:11.730
that represented on the wall and that's these

00:42:11.730 --> 00:42:14.210
are strengths and skills that the athletes have

00:42:14.210 --> 00:42:17.030
been building for decades and they're absolutely

00:42:17.030 --> 00:42:20.590
like such a visible part of their character that

00:42:21.179 --> 00:42:24.719
is very hard to conceive when that's the only

00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:26.920
person you see on the wall. But when you see

00:42:26.920 --> 00:42:29.059
both of them side by side going up, you can be

00:42:29.059 --> 00:42:32.059
like, oh, wow, look at this sort of specialties

00:42:32.059 --> 00:42:36.320
that they have. And to me, telling those stories

00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:40.400
makes people really want to feel more inspired

00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.599
and invest more in learning about the athletes.

00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:46.380
So that was really one of the biggest factors

00:42:46.380 --> 00:42:50.039
that made us want to use that format, the storytelling

00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:52.929
aspect. So it's not about the setting. It's not

00:42:52.929 --> 00:42:55.289
about old school or new school. The format choice?

00:42:55.429 --> 00:42:59.750
No, it was absolutely about storytelling and

00:42:59.750 --> 00:43:04.530
a kind of new type of separation. So again, I

00:43:04.530 --> 00:43:07.369
think I spoke to every coach in the sport about

00:43:07.369 --> 00:43:11.849
formats for a while. And there was a few like

00:43:11.849 --> 00:43:15.119
interesting, really core principles that a lot

00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:17.840
of people fed back to me. The first one was that

00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:21.869
on average attempts equals time. And so there

00:43:21.869 --> 00:43:24.530
really is that possibility to just replace attempts

00:43:24.530 --> 00:43:28.619
with time. And then world climbing events, it

00:43:28.619 --> 00:43:33.019
feels like athlete versus the wall. And the kind

00:43:33.019 --> 00:43:37.239
of athlete versus athlete is a sort of secondary

00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:40.239
thing that comes in. And so we're really leaning

00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:43.440
into this athlete versus athlete aspect of it,

00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:47.900
which is the kind of, it is the point of competition

00:43:47.900 --> 00:43:54.239
in the end. Yeah, those were the big things that

00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:59.489
made us choose this format. And I think it's

00:43:59.489 --> 00:44:01.809
important to say that we're really investing

00:44:01.809 --> 00:44:04.030
in this format for the next couple of years.

00:44:04.150 --> 00:44:10.559
But we're a body and a network and a resource.

00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:13.539
And we're super motivated. And we're not saying

00:44:13.539 --> 00:44:15.820
that that's the only format that the PCL is going

00:44:15.820 --> 00:44:20.099
to have forever. there's lots of lots of opportunity

00:44:20.099 --> 00:44:22.119
and already lots of interesting conversations

00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:26.019
cropping up about new formats do you hope for

00:44:26.019 --> 00:44:29.280
more like rivalries do you think that would drive

00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:31.480
more interest if people were a little bit less

00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:36.389
friendly it's such a good question and i'm still

00:44:36.389 --> 00:44:40.010
gathering all the data to answer that question

00:44:40.010 --> 00:44:46.519
so um they're the rivalries without a doubt like

00:44:46.909 --> 00:44:49.730
increase kind of the buy -in the storytelling

00:44:49.730 --> 00:44:57.110
and that that that um kind of a new layer of

00:44:57.110 --> 00:45:01.030
character to the sport um but there there are

00:45:01.030 --> 00:45:05.079
sports that really lean into that community angle

00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:08.460
and i think skateboarding is one surfing is one

00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:14.000
and so there's uh i'm not forcing it either way

00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:17.380
i think we we're gonna see how things develop

00:45:17.380 --> 00:45:19.960
over the next year and we're going to give each

00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:25.320
really good opportunity and it's it's the on

00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:28.340
the inside there's both sides to it like there's

00:45:28.340 --> 00:45:30.420
a lot of people that have that strong community

00:45:30.420 --> 00:45:33.300
feeling but there are people that are really

00:45:33.300 --> 00:45:36.320
competitive and really have their rivalry and

00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:41.960
they don't talk about it and we're we're we're

00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:43.980
not going to force it we're going to give everyone

00:45:44.650 --> 00:45:47.369
all the opportunities and see where it goes.

00:45:47.429 --> 00:45:51.710
But I don't, I wouldn't call it a success if

00:45:51.710 --> 00:45:55.210
people were in the space where they felt like

00:45:55.210 --> 00:45:57.130
we were trying to take advantage of them for

00:45:57.130 --> 00:46:01.070
stories. So it's one to develop in the right

00:46:01.070 --> 00:46:03.469
way at the right time. So you're not going to

00:46:03.469 --> 00:46:06.789
like pay anyone in the background to actually

00:46:06.789 --> 00:46:10.699
like start out as friends and then pretend like

00:46:10.699 --> 00:46:12.800
they're having issues and that they're not friends

00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:14.920
anymore. And yeah, you're not going to do that.

00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:18.059
No, we don't have plans for that. Although we

00:46:18.059 --> 00:46:21.500
do have a pretty exciting content channel in

00:46:21.500 --> 00:46:24.820
the works. And it's like, how much do you really

00:46:24.820 --> 00:46:27.219
get to see the behind the scenes of what's going

00:46:27.219 --> 00:46:31.099
on with everyone? And so I can definitely see

00:46:31.099 --> 00:46:35.119
some new stories are going to start to come in

00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:39.369
that you might not have expected. it'll bring

00:46:39.369 --> 00:46:44.650
a new layer to the sport but we don't there won't

00:46:44.650 --> 00:46:47.929
be any backhand deals yeah no I always wonder

00:46:47.929 --> 00:46:51.130
because I don't follow celebrity news like that

00:46:51.130 --> 00:46:53.889
closely but I feel like I always see talks where

00:46:53.889 --> 00:46:56.050
people are like oh they're not actually beefing

00:46:56.050 --> 00:46:59.269
they're just doing this for I guess like engagement

00:46:59.269 --> 00:47:01.750
or whatever and I wonder how much of that is

00:47:01.750 --> 00:47:04.829
actually true in big Hollywood yeah well I think

00:47:04.829 --> 00:47:11.630
boxing UFC Absolutely do that. My thesis is that

00:47:11.630 --> 00:47:15.639
climbers smell bullshit and will call bullshit.

00:47:15.860 --> 00:47:20.239
And so if we really try to create something that

00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:25.019
isn't properly true, then yeah, I think it'll

00:47:25.019 --> 00:47:27.800
get called out. And that goes across many areas

00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:32.929
of the PCL. That's not just the beef. So then

00:47:32.929 --> 00:47:35.389
back to a couple of the other criticisms that

00:47:35.389 --> 00:47:38.489
were given. One thing people wanted to see the

00:47:38.489 --> 00:47:43.070
seating round streamed. Oh, so this one, it was

00:47:43.070 --> 00:47:48.650
a lot of what we do is trying to connect the

00:47:49.099 --> 00:47:56.400
main events to gyms because they are and will

00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:59.769
continue to be the bedrock of the climbing industry.

00:48:00.809 --> 00:48:04.610
but we positioned it as a bit of a, it was a

00:48:04.610 --> 00:48:08.690
VIP event. It was actually a really funny moment.

00:48:09.730 --> 00:48:13.190
I was going into the gym like a couple of days

00:48:13.190 --> 00:48:15.690
before while they were setting. They were just

00:48:15.690 --> 00:48:19.469
starting the setting and I was with the manager

00:48:19.469 --> 00:48:22.329
and then met the kind of head setter and they

00:48:22.329 --> 00:48:25.809
went like, oh yeah, we just realized that this

00:48:25.809 --> 00:48:28.449
is the highest level comp has ever been in the

00:48:28.449 --> 00:48:32.780
UK. Because everyone on the roster nearly had

00:48:32.780 --> 00:48:38.000
been on a World Cup podium. Or multiple, multiple

00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:42.199
medals. So it was such a funny moment. But then,

00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:45.280
yeah, being able to be on the match right in

00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:48.460
front of the athletes, we felt was a really special

00:48:48.460 --> 00:48:52.869
experience. And so that was, we treated it as

00:48:52.869 --> 00:48:56.849
a kind of VIP experience. And there'll be more

00:48:56.849 --> 00:49:00.500
of that in the next season as well. On the live

00:49:00.500 --> 00:49:08.019
stream, the thinking was that we, Red Bull had

00:49:08.019 --> 00:49:12.260
put so much into the main event live stream and

00:49:12.260 --> 00:49:17.519
it was so many levels above what anything we'd

00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:21.489
seen before. And it would have been quite a stark

00:49:21.489 --> 00:49:25.369
contrast to then have a kind of local live stream

00:49:25.369 --> 00:49:28.250
crew with a camera in the corner filming the

00:49:28.250 --> 00:49:33.440
gym setup. Just like a static cam in the back.

00:49:33.699 --> 00:49:38.199
The scale of the broadcast setup in the arena

00:49:38.199 --> 00:49:42.760
is incredible. The equipment they bring in and

00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:46.139
the plan they have to deliver everything is really

00:49:46.139 --> 00:49:50.800
another level. Some of that depends on actually

00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:53.780
being in the arena. It would be really hard to

00:49:53.780 --> 00:49:59.360
run that kind of operation in a gym. The thinking

00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:03.170
at this That stage was to just focus on that

00:50:03.170 --> 00:50:07.269
big arena event and have the absolute best possible

00:50:07.269 --> 00:50:10.849
broadcast we could make. Now, in saying that,

00:50:10.969 --> 00:50:15.030
our next season, we're going to have two rounds.

00:50:15.170 --> 00:50:16.889
We're still going to have the seed round the

00:50:16.889 --> 00:50:20.369
day before, but then the main event on the day

00:50:20.369 --> 00:50:22.429
is going to be split into a group stage round

00:50:22.429 --> 00:50:25.429
during the daytime and the finals in the evening.

00:50:25.690 --> 00:50:29.849
And they'll both be streamed by Red Bull. There'll

00:50:29.849 --> 00:50:35.489
be much more action and that kind of another

00:50:35.489 --> 00:50:38.710
round to view on live stream. Okay, perfect.

00:50:38.869 --> 00:50:42.110
More to look forward to. And then one more critique

00:50:42.110 --> 00:50:46.570
that was in the comments. Was there too much

00:50:46.570 --> 00:50:49.309
downtime between boulders and too much athlete

00:50:49.309 --> 00:50:52.369
intro? It was a very long stream. It was like,

00:50:52.409 --> 00:50:56.369
what, four hours, five hours? Three hours, 40,

00:50:56.690 --> 00:51:02.760
I think. So that was actually a lot of this comes

00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:06.559
from like not having done it before and having

00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:11.699
such a specific like things that we can do with

00:51:11.699 --> 00:51:15.059
the budget and time that we have in London. And

00:51:15.059 --> 00:51:18.280
it actually harks back to that question about

00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:21.519
the the route setting and the level. And for

00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:26.340
me, I knew we cannot. guarantee that the setting

00:51:26.340 --> 00:51:28.219
is going to be right and that at the end of the

00:51:28.219 --> 00:51:30.599
day is almost always going to have such a big

00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:33.480
impact on the quality of the comp and so I was

00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:37.139
thinking okay what can I have control over in

00:51:37.139 --> 00:51:41.780
the event and the delivery of it and then dive

00:51:41.780 --> 00:51:44.840
straight into the mission that we had for the

00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:48.000
company and it's about getting it's really elevating

00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:51.380
the athletes and so I thought if I can make sure

00:51:51.380 --> 00:51:55.780
that anyone that watches this event goes away

00:51:55.780 --> 00:51:58.059
feeling like they really know the athletes on

00:51:58.059 --> 00:52:00.059
a new kind of level and they've connected with

00:52:00.059 --> 00:52:02.599
them and they understand them and they're even

00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:05.440
more psyched and motivated when they watch them

00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:09.739
climb afterwards and that was the kind of essence

00:52:09.739 --> 00:52:13.639
of that decision to have so many athlete interviews

00:52:13.639 --> 00:52:17.219
and obviously it did lead to a lot of downtime

00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:22.159
I'm still happy that we did that and it sets

00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:25.320
the tone for what we want to do with PCL. But

00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:28.000
certainly we were taking that feedback and we're

00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:31.039
going to have noticeably less athlete interviews

00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:35.340
and noticeably more climbing in the next events,

00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:38.719
which I guess when you want to chat about the

00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:40.900
format, I can break that down. Yeah, no, I mean,

00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:43.119
we can talk about the format now. And also, what

00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:45.619
is like the ideal runtime that you have in mind

00:52:45.619 --> 00:52:48.989
for the competition? Two hours, I think, is the

00:52:48.989 --> 00:52:53.070
kind of ideal. That's two hours of climbing time

00:52:53.070 --> 00:52:55.869
and then there'll be more kind of interviews

00:52:55.869 --> 00:52:58.590
and transitions. So two and a half hour show

00:52:58.590 --> 00:53:02.849
is probably the ideal. There is bigger conversations

00:53:02.849 --> 00:53:06.860
about getting that even lower and quicker. But

00:53:06.860 --> 00:53:11.179
I think we, I feel like there's a certain amount

00:53:11.179 --> 00:53:14.409
of action that I want to give to people that

00:53:14.409 --> 00:53:18.280
watch. We'll see about getting it shorter and

00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:22.199
faster in the next year, but I think two, two

00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:23.820
and a half hours is the goal for this season.

00:53:24.139 --> 00:53:25.960
Okay. Well, yeah, let's talk about the format

00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:27.559
and what it's going to end up looking like this

00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:32.719
year. So I think the, the runtime and the kind

00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:36.440
of how consequential the boulders were, were

00:53:36.440 --> 00:53:41.500
the big bits of learning for us. And so. The

00:53:41.500 --> 00:53:46.519
first thing we did was split the comp into two

00:53:46.519 --> 00:53:49.239
different ones because we didn't want to cut

00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:51.840
out boulders and we wanted to make sure that

00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:53.860
there was more climbing and more opportunity

00:53:53.860 --> 00:53:56.400
for all the athletes. So we're going to have

00:53:56.400 --> 00:54:01.099
a group stage session during the day, which I

00:54:01.099 --> 00:54:04.639
think is a really exciting setup. And then we're

00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:08.360
going to have the finals, semis and finals in

00:54:08.360 --> 00:54:13.070
the evening. The group stage setup, we've rejigged

00:54:13.070 --> 00:54:16.469
it now. And rather than you get seeded with one

00:54:16.469 --> 00:54:20.230
person and you do best of three with them, we're

00:54:20.230 --> 00:54:22.929
going to do it that you get put into three groups

00:54:22.929 --> 00:54:26.909
of four. And then you have to climb one boulder

00:54:26.909 --> 00:54:30.170
against everyone else in your group. So you do

00:54:30.170 --> 00:54:32.969
boulder A against one person, boulder B against

00:54:32.969 --> 00:54:35.989
another person, boulder C against the third person,

00:54:36.070 --> 00:54:39.809
which means... You have to climb all the boulders

00:54:39.809 --> 00:54:41.650
and you have to climb against everyone else.

00:54:41.929 --> 00:54:48.329
So there's much more parity in who's going to

00:54:48.329 --> 00:54:51.929
make it through. It's not all decided by who

00:54:51.929 --> 00:54:54.789
you're seeded against. And it means there's going

00:54:54.789 --> 00:54:59.639
to be much more climbing action. So the top four

00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:02.639
from the group stage are going to go to the finals.

00:55:03.139 --> 00:55:06.789
And naturally, that is the... winner of each

00:55:06.789 --> 00:55:09.110
of the three groups will go through but then

00:55:09.110 --> 00:55:11.630
we're going to have a best runner up across the

00:55:11.630 --> 00:55:14.329
three groups is going to get that last spot in

00:55:14.329 --> 00:55:17.550
the finals and that one's actually really interesting

00:55:17.550 --> 00:55:21.809
it's going to be calculated by number of wins

00:55:21.809 --> 00:55:24.949
within their group and then number of tops and

00:55:24.949 --> 00:55:30.130
then seeding and then time but it means there's

00:55:30.130 --> 00:55:34.380
essentially we saw in the first PCL when someone

00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:37.349
breaks through and is clearly going to make their

00:55:37.349 --> 00:55:39.710
way to the top the other athlete didn't think

00:55:39.710 --> 00:55:44.280
to pull on again now if you pull on before the

00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:47.019
other athlete matches the top you have a chance

00:55:47.019 --> 00:55:50.739
still to get a top and that is going to be pretty

00:55:50.739 --> 00:55:53.739
important for getting that best runner -up position

00:55:53.739 --> 00:55:56.900
and so there's essentially a sub competition

00:55:56.900 --> 00:56:00.420
happening the whole time I guess everyone else

00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:04.210
and so you're going to be incentivized to try

00:56:04.210 --> 00:56:07.190
at all points and um you're not going to know

00:56:07.190 --> 00:56:10.110
if you have that that position until essentially

00:56:10.110 --> 00:56:14.090
after the whole round is over so um we're pretty

00:56:14.090 --> 00:56:15.690
psyched on this i think it's going to be really

00:56:15.690 --> 00:56:19.929
interesting to uh run in the comp and totally

00:56:19.929 --> 00:56:22.250
change like how the athletes are going to approach

00:56:22.250 --> 00:56:25.510
the the boulders then in the finals there's going

00:56:25.510 --> 00:56:30.510
to be um we'll be seating as normal a person

00:56:30.510 --> 00:56:34.579
a and b And they're going to do best of three

00:56:34.579 --> 00:56:38.760
boulders for semifinals. And then the winner

00:56:38.760 --> 00:56:42.940
of each semifinal is going to go on to do big

00:56:42.940 --> 00:56:46.239
final, best of three boulders again. And the

00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:49.599
losers will do small final. Small final is just

00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:52.420
going to be one. It's going to be more consequential

00:56:52.420 --> 00:56:56.039
and make sure that we're not going to run on

00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:59.179
too long. But the big final is going to be...

00:56:59.900 --> 00:57:02.579
again across three boulders so it's not decided

00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:05.719
by if the boulder is your style or not the competition's

00:57:05.719 --> 00:57:10.760
over we're we're giving more chance uh for an

00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:14.199
even match uh across the comp so definitely a

00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:16.619
lot more climbing um and how many people are

00:57:16.619 --> 00:57:19.460
in the big final is it just the big final two

00:57:19.460 --> 00:57:23.420
okay yes so just the same two people okay across

00:57:23.420 --> 00:57:26.559
the three boulders yep exactly Yeah. Okay. I

00:57:26.559 --> 00:57:28.519
guess that makes sense because, again, you were

00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:30.480
saying the whole thing about having more screen

00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:34.960
time for the people who are doing the best. It's

00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:38.039
kind of complicated. I remember you explaining

00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:40.500
this to me in Salt Lake, and when I heard it,

00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:43.000
I was like, maybe I'm just not getting it right

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:45.980
now because I'm really sleepy. And now the second

00:57:45.980 --> 00:57:47.679
time going through it, I'm still like, oh, man,

00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:52.670
that's confusing a little bit. Which round is

00:57:52.670 --> 00:57:56.489
confusing? The group. Final is confusing to me.

00:57:56.670 --> 00:57:58.510
Group stage. Yeah, group stage. Do you watch

00:57:58.510 --> 00:58:02.110
other sports? Not that many other sports. Mainly

00:58:02.110 --> 00:58:05.409
just football, American football. But they have

00:58:05.409 --> 00:58:08.389
a group stage as well. It's a pretty common mechanism

00:58:08.389 --> 00:58:11.150
in sports. What's their group stage? I don't

00:58:11.150 --> 00:58:12.650
watch that much football. I watch a little bit

00:58:12.650 --> 00:58:16.130
of football. I watch the Olympics. Definitely

00:58:16.130 --> 00:58:19.829
not the authority on American football rules.

00:58:20.170 --> 00:58:25.329
But the setup is that you get split into different

00:58:25.329 --> 00:58:28.449
groups and then you only compete against the

00:58:28.449 --> 00:58:30.849
other people in your group. And then the winner

00:58:30.849 --> 00:58:35.110
of that group moves forward. So it's not everyone

00:58:35.110 --> 00:58:38.289
versus everyone. It's just competitions within

00:58:38.289 --> 00:58:41.050
the group. Okay. I see. Maybe people will let

00:58:41.050 --> 00:58:43.010
me know in the comments if I'm being dumb or

00:58:43.010 --> 00:58:46.730
if it is complicated. I'm sure we'll figure it

00:58:46.730 --> 00:58:52.010
out. I think one of the nice things that we got

00:58:52.010 --> 00:58:55.440
right at the first competition was communicating

00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:58.719
the the scoring and the graphics and the storyline

00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:03.219
around oh yeah so uh we really wanted those screens

00:59:03.219 --> 00:59:06.039
on each side with the big profile of the athlete

00:59:06.039 --> 00:59:08.679
you know exactly who it is how high they've got

00:59:08.679 --> 00:59:11.800
how many rounds they've won against their their

00:59:11.800 --> 00:59:16.719
paired up rival um and we will obviously be building

00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:20.539
on that um for the next season and i think it'll

00:59:20.539 --> 00:59:23.460
be pretty easy to understand who's winning in

00:59:23.460 --> 00:59:26.199
each group. Yeah, the graphics were fantastic.

00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:28.619
So I think it'll be a lot more clear to me then.

00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:32.679
You already announced what the upcoming schedule

00:59:32.679 --> 00:59:35.039
will look like. Do you feel like this is your

00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:37.559
ideal season schedule or do you have something

00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:39.840
else in mind for like what your grand vision

00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:42.500
would be? I think this is a really good starting

00:59:42.500 --> 00:59:45.280
point. Everything is a step along the journey,

00:59:45.420 --> 00:59:50.260
but we would definitely look to bring some events

00:59:50.260 --> 00:59:53.460
before Christmas as well. I think there's a lot

00:59:53.460 --> 00:59:56.300
of freedom for athletes in that time period and

00:59:56.300 --> 01:00:00.119
their kind of host competition season. So a bit

01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:05.699
more relaxed. But it's going to be a process

01:00:05.789 --> 01:00:08.570
to build the right calendar. And we're speaking

01:00:08.570 --> 01:00:10.809
to World Climbing and to the federations. And

01:00:10.809 --> 01:00:13.829
we'll be working quite closely with the athletes

01:00:13.829 --> 01:00:16.289
as well to make sure we've got the best calendar

01:00:16.289 --> 01:00:20.869
for future seasons. December like pre -Christmas

01:00:20.869 --> 01:00:22.909
time that's kind of their like training block

01:00:22.909 --> 01:00:27.550
does that factor into your scheduling at all

01:00:27.550 --> 01:00:30.289
or is it like this is fine if they're doing it

01:00:30.289 --> 01:00:32.309
during their training their heavy training season

01:00:32.309 --> 01:00:36.269
uh it totally depends on the athletes and the

01:00:36.269 --> 01:00:40.570
the winter spring season is also their training

01:00:40.570 --> 01:00:43.789
block uh if not more their training block so

01:00:43.789 --> 01:00:48.699
um some of them think that there's a real priority

01:00:48.699 --> 01:00:51.820
to try get on a big stage and get that kind of

01:00:51.820 --> 01:00:55.239
exposure nerves you'll get in front of a crowd

01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:59.320
and there but honestly every athlete really has

01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:01.320
a different focus and a different plan and so

01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:06.079
we we work with speaking to all the coaches constantly

01:01:06.079 --> 01:01:09.539
to make sure we're building the right product

01:01:09.539 --> 01:01:13.690
yeah i'm curious to see how athletes will structure

01:01:13.690 --> 01:01:16.510
their schedules around all the different competitions

01:01:16.510 --> 01:01:20.409
or if it's possible for anyone to dominate all

01:01:20.409 --> 01:01:23.530
year round i think we we definitely have a position

01:01:23.530 --> 01:01:28.150
on if we were to ever like enter to the the same

01:01:28.150 --> 01:01:31.650
calendar period as world climbing the only people

01:01:31.650 --> 01:01:34.750
that would lose out are the athletes and so i

01:01:34.750 --> 01:01:39.710
don't see that as a positive um so we also feel

01:01:39.710 --> 01:01:43.289
like we can really provide a lot of support and

01:01:43.289 --> 01:01:46.889
resource that can make athletes' training period

01:01:46.889 --> 01:01:50.489
and whole year much more comfortable. And so

01:01:50.489 --> 01:01:54.710
that's a big part of professionalizing as a whole.

01:01:55.309 --> 01:01:57.590
Actually, we took a lot of learnings from rugby,

01:01:57.730 --> 01:02:02.869
where in the past it used to be that everyone

01:02:03.539 --> 01:02:07.539
that was competing in rugby had a full -time

01:02:07.539 --> 01:02:10.090
job. They were almost always like... firemen

01:02:10.090 --> 01:02:14.030
and policemen and then when the sport professionalized

01:02:14.030 --> 01:02:17.750
and by definition the athletes did that as their

01:02:17.750 --> 01:02:20.150
full -time job and they weren't doing other jobs

01:02:20.150 --> 01:02:22.969
and they were able to relax and recover in their

01:02:22.969 --> 01:02:25.889
off periods the level of the sport went up so

01:02:25.889 --> 01:02:29.150
much and we really think that's going to be a

01:02:29.219 --> 01:02:34.880
consequence of PCL bringing in more prize money

01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:38.139
more support for athletes over the next year

01:02:38.139 --> 01:02:40.289
or two. I think that makes a lot of sense. I

01:02:40.289 --> 01:02:44.469
mean, the athletes who spend like their entire

01:02:44.469 --> 01:02:47.929
day, like eight hours training five days a week,

01:02:48.110 --> 01:02:50.550
they definitely, you can definitely tell who

01:02:50.550 --> 01:02:53.769
those people are. Okay. And then last, we had

01:02:53.769 --> 01:02:56.590
spoke a long time ago. You said something interesting

01:02:56.590 --> 01:02:59.530
to me about comp climbing being an avenue for

01:02:59.530 --> 01:03:02.090
like more ethical climbing and moving people

01:03:02.090 --> 01:03:05.050
away from climbing outdoors as much. Is that

01:03:05.050 --> 01:03:07.210
still like, is that still something that you

01:03:07.210 --> 01:03:09.750
think about? yeah it's it's totally something

01:03:09.750 --> 01:03:14.789
i think about and um i think we're we're we're

01:03:14.789 --> 01:03:19.000
in a position where we want to essentially the

01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:23.849
do justice to every part of the sport and athletes

01:03:23.849 --> 01:03:27.230
really like outdoor climbing is a big part of

01:03:27.230 --> 01:03:30.510
kind of relaxing and letting off steam but for

01:03:30.510 --> 01:03:34.110
me this was kind of a thing that came from my

01:03:34.110 --> 01:03:37.409
whole climbing group like starting out in a lot

01:03:37.409 --> 01:03:40.590
of these areas, outdoor bouldering areas and

01:03:40.590 --> 01:03:44.750
seeing kind of the effect that so many new climbers

01:03:44.750 --> 01:03:49.989
had on the rock and the landscape. And we had

01:03:49.989 --> 01:03:52.730
this narrative in the sport that you're not a

01:03:52.730 --> 01:03:54.550
real climber unless you're climbing outside.

01:03:54.949 --> 01:04:00.550
And I absolutely don't believe in that. And I

01:04:00.550 --> 01:04:04.789
hope that. really raising the profile of competitions

01:04:04.789 --> 01:04:08.809
can validate this other side of the sport, this

01:04:08.809 --> 01:04:13.170
indoor side of the sport. But I think the kind

01:04:13.170 --> 01:04:16.980
of deeper thing that I'm targeting with that

01:04:16.980 --> 01:04:21.460
is the kind of, are you a climber or not? And

01:04:21.460 --> 01:04:25.619
I've seen climbing do so much for so many people

01:04:25.619 --> 01:04:29.980
and support and help them and give them a community

01:04:29.980 --> 01:04:33.000
for when they're having a really... difficult

01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:37.320
or dark time and so i will quite uh strongly

01:04:37.320 --> 01:04:40.900
fight for this this angle of you you absolutely

01:04:40.900 --> 01:04:43.860
are a climber and you're just as important as

01:04:43.860 --> 01:04:48.019
anyone else that loves the sport as much as you

01:04:48.019 --> 01:04:51.380
do and um it doesn't matter if you're getting

01:04:51.380 --> 01:04:54.260
inside or if you're getting outside if you're

01:04:54.260 --> 01:04:59.070
up in the alps or you're just doing threes and

01:04:59.070 --> 01:05:02.900
fours in your local gym and if that is giving

01:05:02.900 --> 01:05:05.820
you a sense of achievement and a sense of peace,

01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:10.340
then you're just as important as the people doing

01:05:10.340 --> 01:05:13.619
really, really hard climbs somewhere else. And

01:05:13.619 --> 01:05:17.219
I think that's the deeper thing that I feel quite

01:05:17.219 --> 01:05:19.199
strongly about, particularly in terms of how

01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:23.099
we build as a community and particularly as we've

01:05:23.099 --> 01:05:28.360
come to this new sort of age in the sport where

01:05:28.360 --> 01:05:32.550
so many new gyms have opened up. we have to learn

01:05:32.550 --> 01:05:37.329
before we were such a close community and before

01:05:37.329 --> 01:05:39.909
like if you wanted to go out climbing you need

01:05:39.909 --> 01:05:42.329
to find someone that does it and could teach

01:05:42.329 --> 01:05:46.570
you how to do it and now um there's with the

01:05:46.570 --> 01:05:49.369
essentially the advent the group explosion of

01:05:49.369 --> 01:05:52.889
the gym industry we we can't onboard people into

01:05:52.889 --> 01:05:56.190
the sport in the same way that we used to um

01:05:56.320 --> 01:06:02.630
but that that i think i When I play the question

01:06:02.630 --> 01:06:06.349
in my head of denying someone the right to be

01:06:06.349 --> 01:06:09.269
a climber, that's where I'm like very clearly,

01:06:09.329 --> 01:06:12.130
like I will never tell someone that they're not

01:06:12.130 --> 01:06:14.150
a climber and they can't be a part of this club

01:06:14.150 --> 01:06:18.329
because I know what it did for me. And I couldn't

01:06:18.329 --> 01:06:22.980
imagine not allowing someone else to have that

01:06:22.980 --> 01:06:27.539
if they needed it. And so that's the more powerful.

01:06:28.300 --> 01:06:31.159
part of the question of really validating everyone

01:06:31.159 --> 01:06:37.500
that feels a sense of safety and a sense of success

01:06:37.659 --> 01:06:41.840
in the sport and uh yeah it's it's a much bigger

01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:44.780
mission and it's not just about competitions

01:06:44.780 --> 01:06:50.739
but giving back and trying to uh yeah really

01:06:50.739 --> 01:06:53.199
help people in the same way that i got helped

01:06:53.199 --> 01:06:55.199
in the past yeah no i think that makes sense

01:06:55.199 --> 01:06:57.650
and i feel like then the narrative of that is

01:06:57.650 --> 01:07:01.590
shifting a little bit. That's part of why I wanted

01:07:01.590 --> 01:07:04.610
to like start this podcast as well. But I remember

01:07:04.610 --> 01:07:07.650
a few years ago, I was like living in Vegas at

01:07:07.650 --> 01:07:11.409
the time. And since I don't really climb outside,

01:07:11.489 --> 01:07:13.909
I feel like people always ask like, oh, what

01:07:13.909 --> 01:07:15.829
things do you like to climb outside? Or like,

01:07:15.929 --> 01:07:18.210
oh, what's the hardest grade you ever climbed

01:07:18.210 --> 01:07:20.769
outside? And I was like, I don't know, like a

01:07:20.769 --> 01:07:24.250
V4 because I don't really climb outside. And

01:07:24.250 --> 01:07:29.829
I always felt so, I wouldn't say invalidated,

01:07:29.849 --> 01:07:34.650
but just like, I really wanted to just climb

01:07:34.650 --> 01:07:37.610
a bunch inside and then one day spite people

01:07:37.610 --> 01:07:40.050
by like climbing something hard outside one day.

01:07:40.269 --> 01:07:42.409
And that was my only motivation. I was like,

01:07:42.469 --> 01:07:44.210
I'm never going to go outside. But one day if

01:07:44.210 --> 01:07:46.050
I do, I'm going to climb something hard just

01:07:46.050 --> 01:07:48.730
so that I can spite people and be like, see,

01:07:48.869 --> 01:07:53.050
I can do stupid outdoor climbing too. It's such

01:07:53.050 --> 01:07:56.449
a, but it's such a. like deeper question how

01:07:56.449 --> 01:08:00.130
do you define like what type of climber you are

01:08:00.130 --> 01:08:03.369
or what level of climber you are like yeah people

01:08:03.369 --> 01:08:06.920
a lot of people have done really hard stuff outdoors

01:08:06.920 --> 01:08:09.139
in the past but they're at a stage where they

01:08:09.139 --> 01:08:12.739
can't do that anymore and some of the best climbers

01:08:12.739 --> 01:08:18.710
I've ever met like can cannot do even a v3 or

01:08:18.710 --> 01:08:23.529
v2 and would you say they're not a climber and

01:08:23.529 --> 01:08:27.579
I think the thing that really sits with me is

01:08:27.579 --> 01:08:30.859
like what does it give back to you and the we

01:08:30.859 --> 01:08:34.359
should not deny you getting that and you should

01:08:34.359 --> 01:08:37.539
be a part of the club and you should be a climber

01:08:37.539 --> 01:08:40.680
if if if it's giving back to you in that way

01:08:40.680 --> 01:08:45.439
and um yeah i think really great name for the

01:08:45.439 --> 01:08:48.939
podcast to properly lean into it because it just

01:08:48.939 --> 01:08:52.319
shows like the the people that you get on here

01:08:52.319 --> 01:08:56.310
are like incredible and have done so much more

01:08:56.310 --> 01:09:00.760
than almost most people I've ever met in many

01:09:00.760 --> 01:09:04.079
different sports because we really lean into

01:09:04.079 --> 01:09:06.899
it with our whole lives and some people's bodies

01:09:06.899 --> 01:09:09.220
are amazing at it and can do it super easily

01:09:09.220 --> 01:09:11.899
some people's bodies are not and I think that's

01:09:11.899 --> 01:09:15.409
totally fine and shouldn't affect the the name

01:09:15.409 --> 01:09:18.989
that we give it and the community that we have

01:09:18.989 --> 01:09:22.170
at some point like bouldering was considered

01:09:22.170 --> 01:09:25.829
like not real climbing right in general yeah

01:09:25.829 --> 01:09:29.250
like real climbing was i don't know trad climbing

01:09:29.250 --> 01:09:32.750
or doing big wall stuff or mountaineering i guess

01:09:32.750 --> 01:09:35.670
i think a lot of people still have this like

01:09:35.670 --> 01:09:39.590
alpinism real climbing and then sport climbing

01:09:39.590 --> 01:09:44.149
kind of came in and is it real climbing and bouldering

01:09:44.149 --> 01:09:47.529
was just training bouldering purely started out

01:09:47.529 --> 01:09:52.069
as as training um in fontainebleau it was training

01:09:52.069 --> 01:09:56.680
to do alps Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, it's a

01:09:56.680 --> 01:09:59.600
really interesting history. Bouldering started

01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:03.779
in the 1800s in Fontainebleau. But they would

01:10:03.779 --> 01:10:07.850
do like 50, 60. I think some of the circuits

01:10:07.850 --> 01:10:10.090
have 200 boulders. And the idea was that you

01:10:10.090 --> 01:10:12.050
would get, you'd go through the same amount of

01:10:12.050 --> 01:10:18.130
elevation as one of the Alps. And now we're really

01:10:18.130 --> 01:10:21.310
like, bouldering has evolved into the biggest.

01:10:22.729 --> 01:10:25.909
most highly participated discipline in the whole

01:10:25.909 --> 01:10:29.050
sport but you can totally see those communities

01:10:29.050 --> 01:10:32.170
coming out of it that are have the same core

01:10:32.170 --> 01:10:37.250
bonds that alpine communities had and so to me

01:10:37.250 --> 01:10:41.310
there's there's no question that it is uh more

01:10:41.659 --> 01:10:45.819
or less valid as as being climbing and it is

01:10:45.819 --> 01:10:49.800
a more ethical avenue for climbing i mean everest

01:10:49.800 --> 01:10:52.319
has so many people up there that there's like

01:10:52.319 --> 01:10:54.640
what did i say there's like trash and there's

01:10:54.640 --> 01:10:57.659
like a huge line for the peak of everest and

01:10:57.659 --> 01:11:01.319
is it more real climbing than paying someone

01:11:01.319 --> 01:11:03.819
else to like bring all your shit up to the mountain

01:11:03.819 --> 01:11:07.239
while you just walk up it i don't know yeah yeah

01:11:07.239 --> 01:11:11.479
i think the everest one has really i guess people

01:11:11.479 --> 01:11:15.220
people that are in the sport i wouldn't see that

01:11:15.220 --> 01:11:18.500
as the same way it used to be seen like and that

01:11:18.500 --> 01:11:22.760
that term what's your everest uh i think should

01:11:22.760 --> 01:11:27.100
remain rather a term than an actual goal and

01:11:27.100 --> 01:11:31.239
i think we we i personally importance of a goal

01:11:31.239 --> 01:11:34.460
should only be valued by how important it is

01:11:34.460 --> 01:11:37.979
to you and it shouldn't be about how important

01:11:37.979 --> 01:11:41.380
it is to other people and that's that's a really

01:11:41.380 --> 01:11:44.079
nice thing that i think i got it from the climbing

01:11:44.079 --> 01:11:48.119
world like i remember back in the day uh when

01:11:48.750 --> 01:11:52.319
social media started happening and people were

01:11:52.319 --> 01:11:55.239
like oh if you don't post it then it doesn't

01:11:55.239 --> 01:11:58.680
count and that definitely gave me like internal

01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:02.119
questions of like oh like why am i doing this

01:12:02.119 --> 01:12:04.460
well it's definitely not to tell other people

01:12:04.460 --> 01:12:09.699
about it and um there's a a really good uh kind

01:12:09.699 --> 01:12:13.140
of philosophical space that i found through that

01:12:13.140 --> 01:12:18.460
and have hence carried forth to the the wider

01:12:18.460 --> 01:12:20.779
world and the things I've been building in the

01:12:20.779 --> 01:12:24.319
sport. And we're, we're building this kind of

01:12:24.319 --> 01:12:29.189
storyline to, to celebrate, but absolutely to

01:12:29.189 --> 01:12:32.770
include, we want to uplift the athletes, but

01:12:32.770 --> 01:12:37.590
we want these stories to be something that climbers

01:12:37.590 --> 01:12:40.829
all over the world are inspired by and psyched

01:12:40.829 --> 01:12:44.930
by. I have like. Three things that I kind of

01:12:44.930 --> 01:12:47.390
tell myself that I viscerally want the PCL to

01:12:47.390 --> 01:12:53.090
do. I want a little kid to think one day I want

01:12:53.090 --> 01:12:55.869
to be a professional climber. I want an athlete

01:12:55.869 --> 01:12:59.050
to feel like, oh, I've got a potential here.

01:12:59.189 --> 01:13:01.989
There's an opportunity. There's a real chance

01:13:01.989 --> 01:13:05.770
for me to live my life in this sport. And I want

01:13:05.770 --> 01:13:11.569
friends to define a moment that bonded them as

01:13:11.569 --> 01:13:16.210
a group. by watching a competition. Oh, do you

01:13:16.210 --> 01:13:18.649
remember that time that Orianne did that move?

01:13:18.789 --> 01:13:21.050
Do you remember that time that Max got blood

01:13:21.050 --> 01:13:23.310
all over his hands? I think people will remember

01:13:23.310 --> 01:13:27.189
that, yeah. They're like team, the kind of group

01:13:27.189 --> 01:13:30.369
bonding that brought them together. And so these

01:13:30.369 --> 01:13:34.649
are the kind of three things that to me are what

01:13:34.649 --> 01:13:39.899
really, what the PCL needs to do to celebrate

01:13:39.899 --> 01:13:43.000
and build the sport for everyone. Let's end that

01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:44.800
there, and then we'll get into some of the audience

01:13:44.800 --> 01:13:47.899
questions. I think that was a good place to end

01:13:47.899 --> 01:13:51.819
on that philosophical note. So the first audience

01:13:51.819 --> 01:13:55.340
question was from Discord. Any plans for non

01:13:55.340 --> 01:13:58.560
-Boulder formats? Well, there's definitely conversations.

01:13:58.720 --> 01:14:02.720
I think this next season, we really want to invest

01:14:02.720 --> 01:14:09.199
in building a brand and knowledge of PCL. But

01:14:09.199 --> 01:14:11.819
we're already like we're seeing some of the venues

01:14:11.819 --> 01:14:13.840
and we're like, oh, we could fit a much bigger

01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:18.140
wall in here. And speaking to all the people

01:14:18.140 --> 01:14:21.460
in the sport and a lot of them like are quite

01:14:21.460 --> 01:14:24.119
psyched to step forward and be like, hey, have

01:14:24.119 --> 01:14:25.699
you thought about this? Have you looked at this

01:14:25.699 --> 01:14:28.880
kind of thing? And so for me, that's how all

01:14:28.880 --> 01:14:31.359
of PCL was built. When someone steps forward

01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:35.529
and thinks this would be amazing. And kind of

01:14:35.529 --> 01:14:38.149
following that passion. And they're all quite

01:14:38.149 --> 01:14:41.569
very knowledgeable people in the sport. And so,

01:14:41.609 --> 01:14:44.289
yeah, conversations are definitely on the go.

01:14:44.409 --> 01:14:48.130
And I would confidently say we're not just going

01:14:48.130 --> 01:14:51.489
to be bouldering forever. No hints as to what

01:14:51.489 --> 01:14:55.890
you want to prioritize there? No, not necessarily,

01:14:56.109 --> 01:15:01.770
actually. And it's all about the right teams

01:15:01.770 --> 01:15:04.619
that get involved and finding the right. opportunities

01:15:04.619 --> 01:15:07.840
and so i wouldn't jump to say that we're looking

01:15:07.840 --> 01:15:09.640
at doing this and we're going to do this next

01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:13.279
year it's not necessarily about that it's like

01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:19.050
um yeah like athletes stepping forward and being

01:15:19.050 --> 01:15:21.869
like oh there's a kind of more athlete -centric

01:15:21.869 --> 01:15:24.189
format that we're we're looking at we're like

01:15:24.189 --> 01:15:27.810
okay this is really cool and then um kind of

01:15:27.810 --> 01:15:30.229
people that work in the sport stepping forward

01:15:30.229 --> 01:15:32.689
and be like oh i thought about this and you could

01:15:33.270 --> 01:15:35.869
mix this together with this other thing and so

01:15:35.869 --> 01:15:38.630
um all i can say is there's lots of really cool

01:15:38.630 --> 01:15:42.050
conversations happening at the moment and um

01:15:42.050 --> 01:15:47.340
when we know the next steps and we feel confident

01:15:47.340 --> 01:15:50.460
we can bring them together we'll we'll look at

01:15:50.460 --> 01:15:54.819
pulling it off okay cool um next one is from

01:15:54.819 --> 01:15:58.680
instagram from dan yang here you might have already

01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:01.180
kind of covered this um but in case you had any

01:16:01.180 --> 01:16:05.670
more thoughts It said, it's a pity to not see

01:16:05.670 --> 01:16:07.850
a slower climber ascend the boulder. What do

01:16:07.850 --> 01:16:11.369
you think about that? Annie did really well and

01:16:11.369 --> 01:16:14.550
she's a slow climber and she just did a good

01:16:14.550 --> 01:16:18.689
job of not falling off. And if the boulders are

01:16:18.689 --> 01:16:22.409
at a level that works, then the slower climber

01:16:22.409 --> 01:16:24.989
will be the one that does the move and gets higher

01:16:24.989 --> 01:16:29.510
up. So the format definitely doesn't prioritize

01:16:29.510 --> 01:16:34.520
quick climbers. Okay. Next question is from Zuul

01:16:34.520 --> 01:16:37.479
on Instagram. Were there warnings given by a

01:16:37.479 --> 01:16:39.579
certain governing body with regard to what you

01:16:39.579 --> 01:16:45.279
can and can't do? No, no. We actually have both

01:16:45.279 --> 01:16:49.279
Charlie and I worked with world climbing in the

01:16:49.279 --> 01:16:51.880
past and we have a really good relationship with

01:16:51.880 --> 01:16:56.380
them and are regularly in conversation. And no,

01:16:56.460 --> 01:17:00.279
they've actually been really, really good to

01:17:00.279 --> 01:17:03.449
work with so far. understanding of what we're

01:17:03.449 --> 01:17:05.890
trying to do and how it affects the sport. And

01:17:05.890 --> 01:17:10.189
so, yeah, no, no, no warnings. Did you work closely

01:17:10.189 --> 01:17:13.250
with them in terms of the schedule? And if there

01:17:13.250 --> 01:17:16.109
were, yeah, there was like nothing that they

01:17:16.109 --> 01:17:18.649
were like, nah, don't, don't do anything that's

01:17:18.649 --> 01:17:21.829
too similar. We, we already knew a lot of the

01:17:21.829 --> 01:17:23.750
schedule and we worked very closely with the

01:17:23.750 --> 01:17:27.029
federations, particularly a lot of teams have

01:17:27.029 --> 01:17:30.310
nationals during that window. We knew that there

01:17:30.310 --> 01:17:33.510
wouldn't be World Cups in that window. So I was

01:17:33.510 --> 01:17:36.329
in touch with most of the federations to make

01:17:36.329 --> 01:17:38.949
sure that we could plan our dates around their

01:17:38.949 --> 01:17:42.170
nationals. That makes sense. And then the last

01:17:42.170 --> 01:17:44.850
audience question, I saved this one for last

01:17:44.850 --> 01:17:48.770
because it was kind of wild. Would you do a geriatrics

01:17:48.770 --> 01:17:53.069
PCL where you have climbing star legends like

01:17:53.069 --> 01:17:56.970
Alex Honnold, Chris Sharma, and Adam Andra? The

01:17:56.970 --> 01:18:00.689
geriatrics. Of the climbing world. Who's confidently

01:18:00.689 --> 01:18:03.229
calling that category the geriatric? I love it.

01:18:03.829 --> 01:18:09.550
There's been a few ideas like that. Like climbing

01:18:09.550 --> 01:18:13.250
all stars or something like that. Yeah. There's

01:18:13.250 --> 01:18:17.439
quite a few legends of the sport will be hanging

01:18:17.439 --> 01:18:20.560
around VIP sections of the comps. So they're

01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:26.279
absolutely not excluded, the conversations involved.

01:18:28.489 --> 01:18:31.970
an all -stars round would be pretty interesting,

01:18:32.149 --> 01:18:35.369
but getting the level right across all of them.

01:18:36.649 --> 01:18:41.470
But that is the nice thing about PCL is that

01:18:41.470 --> 01:18:46.819
we can just do things like this. We don't have

01:18:46.819 --> 01:18:51.640
a massive amount of kind of stakeholders or regulations

01:18:51.640 --> 01:18:55.020
to adhere to. And we have a sea of opportunity

01:18:55.020 --> 01:18:58.420
in front of us. If a good idea like this comes

01:18:58.420 --> 01:19:01.220
along, it is something that we can take up and

01:19:01.220 --> 01:19:03.680
really bring to life. And we can call it our

01:19:03.680 --> 01:19:08.079
all -stars instead of geriatrics. All -stars

01:19:08.079 --> 01:19:12.380
is a, yeah. That one's been floated. Okay. Well,

01:19:12.460 --> 01:19:14.539
that's all the questions I had then. Thanks for

01:19:14.539 --> 01:19:17.899
joining me today. Anything else that you still

01:19:17.899 --> 01:19:20.220
want to shout out or let people know about PCL

01:19:20.220 --> 01:19:22.680
that we didn't cover yet? So, yeah, the pre -sale

01:19:22.680 --> 01:19:25.520
will start on 6th of November, and that will

01:19:25.520 --> 01:19:28.460
be really exclusive to climbing communities.

01:19:28.779 --> 01:19:32.079
And then the main places are with athletes, creators,

01:19:32.300 --> 01:19:35.539
gyms, and the PCL newsletter. And then they'll

01:19:35.539 --> 01:19:39.399
go on general sale the week after, 12th of November.

01:19:40.140 --> 01:19:43.319
and um so yeah it's like to have people part

01:19:43.319 --> 01:19:47.539
of that that core climbing club and it's a concept

01:19:47.539 --> 01:19:51.899
that i really want to build for the the sport

01:19:51.899 --> 01:19:55.890
as a whole and all the events are going to go

01:19:55.890 --> 01:19:58.390
on sale at the same time the berlin event will

01:19:58.390 --> 01:20:02.890
be on 22nd of january the paris event on 13th

01:20:02.890 --> 01:20:05.729
of february and the london event on 20th of march

01:20:05.729 --> 01:20:10.649
so uh yeah we're really excited too Bring something

01:20:10.649 --> 01:20:15.250
big to the sport. First time in these major cities

01:20:15.250 --> 01:20:20.520
and major arenas. And we hope it really brings

01:20:20.520 --> 01:20:23.380
up climbing for everyone and brings everyone

01:20:23.380 --> 01:20:25.680
together around it. And I will leave all the

01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:27.960
links in the description so that people can check

01:20:27.960 --> 01:20:31.319
that out for sure. Okay, any other last minute

01:20:31.319 --> 01:20:33.960
thoughts? We built a big qualification system.

01:20:34.159 --> 01:20:36.760
Oh, like with Boulder Fest? Yeah, but we did

01:20:36.760 --> 01:20:41.750
the same in... Germany, France, and UK. I think

01:20:41.750 --> 01:20:44.130
it's the largest collection of gyms working together

01:20:44.130 --> 01:20:48.109
ever. It's like 85 gyms have all really bought

01:20:48.109 --> 01:20:52.890
into this and are organizing comps for us. It's

01:20:52.890 --> 01:20:55.810
the gym's own comps as well, but they've really

01:20:55.810 --> 01:20:59.109
engaged with the PCL narrative and are doing

01:20:59.109 --> 01:21:03.210
a lot to support and bring this up. So we're

01:21:03.210 --> 01:21:06.149
super psyched and super grateful for that. And

01:21:06.149 --> 01:21:10.569
it's a big operation. And so we just had the

01:21:10.569 --> 01:21:14.869
USA qualifiers a couple of weeks ago in St. Paul.

01:21:15.010 --> 01:21:19.890
And Chloe Koskoi and Sam Richard took the wild

01:21:19.890 --> 01:21:23.689
cards for that. And then we'll have the German

01:21:23.689 --> 01:21:27.789
qualifiers 21st of November in Berlin. And the

01:21:27.789 --> 01:21:32.329
French and UK qualifiers are both on the 5th

01:21:32.329 --> 01:21:36.890
of December in Paris and London. And I think

01:21:36.890 --> 01:21:39.890
they'll be a pretty... exciting moment it was

01:21:39.890 --> 01:21:44.609
really crazy to see how psyched motivated the

01:21:44.609 --> 01:21:50.579
athletes were for the St. Paul Boulder Fest finals

01:21:50.579 --> 01:21:54.520
and so yeah it's getting big I'm getting a lot

01:21:54.520 --> 01:21:57.439
of people messaging me about getting involved

01:21:57.439 --> 01:22:00.380
in these the gyms are running regional qualifiers

01:22:00.380 --> 01:22:03.560
all around the country and then a finals in each

01:22:03.560 --> 01:22:08.029
city but they're not just for top athletes to

01:22:08.029 --> 01:22:11.670
compete in so there's a participation round in

01:22:11.670 --> 01:22:15.289
all the events as well where you go in you get

01:22:15.289 --> 01:22:18.550
to climb with the top athletes and record your

01:22:18.550 --> 01:22:21.430
score and doesn't matter what score you get you

01:22:21.430 --> 01:22:24.470
can enter into a raffle to get tickets to the

01:22:24.470 --> 01:22:28.430
PCL arena events so we're really psyched to build

01:22:28.430 --> 01:22:32.229
this not just for the top level but a place for

01:22:32.880 --> 01:22:35.539
everyone in the sport to get involved and have

01:22:35.539 --> 01:22:38.899
a good time and yeah yeah there'll be really

01:22:38.899 --> 01:22:42.659
key moments and uh pretty exciting actually because

01:22:42.659 --> 01:22:46.479
the wild card um gets you to all three events

01:22:46.479 --> 01:22:50.460
which is a big deal because the athletes there'll

01:22:50.460 --> 01:22:53.119
be some coming to all events some coming to only

01:22:53.119 --> 01:22:56.399
uh one or two but every wild card is going to

01:22:56.399 --> 01:23:00.239
go to all the events so the the competition for

01:23:00.239 --> 01:23:03.380
those spots is actually pretty ferocious that'll

01:23:03.380 --> 01:23:05.260
be very exciting to see and you can get tickets

01:23:05.260 --> 01:23:08.899
to the wildcard finals too right yeah yeah they'll

01:23:08.899 --> 01:23:13.960
uh definitely be packed out so keep an eye now

01:23:13.960 --> 01:23:19.380
as as they they come about um i was at uh one

01:23:19.380 --> 01:23:23.779
of the comps in berlin that is uh now gonna host

01:23:23.779 --> 01:23:26.859
the wildcard for this year i was at it last year

01:23:26.859 --> 01:23:29.779
and i think there was a queue out the door for

01:23:29.779 --> 01:23:35.119
half the day So yeah, there's already like the

01:23:35.119 --> 01:23:37.939
community was getting super involved in these

01:23:37.939 --> 01:23:40.659
events and we're really psyched to just bring

01:23:40.659 --> 01:23:45.560
in that, that kind of narrative point and that

01:23:45.560 --> 01:23:49.979
opportunity for athletes and climbers to get

01:23:50.100 --> 01:23:52.739
involved with PCL. Well, it's really cool to

01:23:52.739 --> 01:23:54.800
see the amount of psych that's being generated

01:23:54.800 --> 01:23:57.479
around PCL and I'm excited to see it all play

01:23:57.479 --> 01:24:00.159
out. Yeah. Thank you, Ginny. Thank you for listening

01:24:00.159 --> 01:24:02.680
to this episode of the That's Not Real Climbing

01:24:02.680 --> 01:24:05.399
Podcast. If you've been enjoying the podcast,

01:24:05.659 --> 01:24:07.579
I would appreciate if you like it on YouTube

01:24:07.579 --> 01:24:11.079
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01:24:11.079 --> 01:24:13.800
leave a comment or reach out at any time if you

01:24:13.800 --> 01:24:16.640
have any thoughts. I try to read all of the messages.

01:24:17.220 --> 01:24:19.960
If you want to continue the discussion, join

01:24:19.960 --> 01:24:22.819
the free competition climbing discord where we

01:24:22.819 --> 01:24:26.100
chat live during the World Series comps and talk

01:24:26.100 --> 01:24:28.920
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01:24:28.920 --> 01:24:30.520
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