23: Sebastian Depke, Paraclimbing Commission Chair
Sebastian is a German paraclimber. He is also the chair of the paraclimbing commission, and he worked on filing the application to get climbing into the Paralympics for LA 2028, which only recently got approved! In this episode, we'll learn about his journey accepting that his disease would affect his body and climbing forever, what the process was like for getting climbing into the Paralympics, the drama behind the paraclimbing classification process, and we talk about his harrowing 1000km journey to the Innsbruck world cup on just a solar hand bike.
Timestamps
Timestamps of discussion topics
0:00 - Getting into climbing/paraclimbing
9:43 - Learning to live with ankylosing spondylitis
23:58 - Applying for paraclimbing to become a Paralympic sport
35:25 - Onsighting the Paralympic application and beating out surfing
39:53 - What sport classes will be in the Paralympics
44:51 - Requirements paraclimbing must fulfill to participate in the Olympics
49:55 - Classification drama
58:07 - How classification works
1:05:15 - The difficult job of classifiers: fluctuating impairments
1:09:25 - Funding his climbing
1:13:07 - And the solar hand bike was born
1:28:50 - Proudest outdoor climbing achievement
1:33:00 - Closing thoughts/where to find Sebastian
-
1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,040
I mean, what am I doing this for?
2
00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,040
If I will end up, I don't know, in a wheelchair
3
00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,000
being severely disabled anyway.
4
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,880
Also one thing which I think got most of the controversy
5
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,360
and tears and drama was the introduction
6
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,800
of minimum impairment criteria.
7
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,160
I think at the end, it was more than 12,000 meters of altitude
8
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,720
to climb up with a bike.
9
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:24,800
We are para climbers.
10
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:26,120
We're not searching for problems.
11
00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,560
We are searching for solutions.
12
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,640
Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing
13
00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:32,840
podcast.
14
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,200
I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce
15
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,640
my guest, Sebastian Depke.
16
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,160
Sebastian is a German para climber.
17
00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:42,960
He is also the chair of the Para Climbing Commission,
18
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,320
and he worked on filing the application
19
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,080
to get climbing into the Paralympics for LA 2028,
20
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,520
which only recently got approved.
21
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,180
In this episode, we'll learn about his journey
22
00:00:54,180 --> 00:00:57,200
accepting that his disease would affect his body
23
00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,840
and climbing forever, what the process was
24
00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,160
like for getting climbing into the Paralympics,
25
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,840
the drama behind the para climbing classification
26
00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,280
process, and we talk about his harrowing 1,000 kilometer
27
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,920
journey to the Innsbruck World Cup on just a solar hand bike.
28
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,320
Hope you enjoy this episode with Sebastian.
29
00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:28,560
How are you doing today?
30
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:29,080
I'm good.
31
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:29,920
Thank you.
32
00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,200
I'm really good.
33
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:32,800
We'll get into it a bit more later,
34
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,640
but are you preparing for another solar bike journey,
35
00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,640
or are you going to take that to Paris, the Olympics?
36
00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,960
At the moment, I'm riding between Innsbruck,
37
00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:47,040
the World Cup, and Villars, the Europe Championships.
38
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,720
And yes, I went to Innsbruck with the solar bike.
39
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,960
And from Innsbruck to my parents' home in Germany,
40
00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,480
I did the second part of the solar bike trip.
41
00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,520
So I've got a lot of things to organize now,
42
00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:01,920
a lot of things to repair.
43
00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,560
And I will start the journey towards Villar mid of August.
44
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,200
When is Villar coming up?
45
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:10,740
Villar is the European Championships.
46
00:02:10,740 --> 00:02:12,120
It's all disciplines together.
47
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,160
So it's para climbing.
48
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,920
It's lead, boulder, speed, all together in Villar one week,
49
00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:18,300
which started with para climbing.
50
00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:21,440
And we are on the 24th and 25th of August.
51
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,720
OK, that'll be exciting.
52
00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:24,840
Good luck there.
53
00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:25,680
Thank you.
54
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,680
So let's get right into it.
55
00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,320
For those who don't know, how and when
56
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,160
did you get into climbing?
57
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,600
I started climbing in 1998.
58
00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:40,000
So that's 26 years now ago.
59
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,640
Got into it through some friends with auto climbing,
60
00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:47,040
and then got hooked immediately.
61
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,400
And at that time, there weren't that many gyms.
62
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,820
So my climbing started mostly with auto climbing.
63
00:02:55,820 --> 00:03:01,960
And that's where still my heart beats most for some to say.
64
00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,840
It's auto climbing for sure.
65
00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,440
And over the years, I got more and more into it.
66
00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:14,040
And with starting my studies at the age of 19, 20,
67
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,440
also with being able to drive my own car at the age of 18,
68
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,480
that took off a lot.
69
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,840
And from that moment on, I really got more and more serious
70
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,040
into climbing.
71
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,320
Wow, 28 years ago.
72
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,920
Or 26 years ago?
73
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,000
Yeah, 26 years.
74
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,680
Yeah, that's almost as long as I've been alive.
75
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,720
So that's really cool.
76
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,320
And how long have you been competing in the IFSC?
77
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,120
I'm competing since 2017.
78
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,880
That's when I learned to know that it actually exists.
79
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,280
I started climbing at the age of 13 in 1998.
80
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,720
And at those times, I still had the first symptoms
81
00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,480
of my disease, which is called ankylosing spondylitis.
82
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,240
It started more or less at the same moment.
83
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,240
It's a rheumatic disease where inflammations lead
84
00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:12,040
to the fusion of, in my case, of the whole backbone and my hips.
85
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,760
So I just have my arms and my shoulders are also limited,
86
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,800
and my knees and my ankles for climbing.
87
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,400
That's all what's left for me.
88
00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:20,840
But I have a whole climbing career
89
00:04:20,840 --> 00:04:23,360
before being severely disabled.
90
00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,480
Oh, actually I didn't know that.
91
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,080
Yeah, so there's still a Sebastian climbing
92
00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,160
without being severely impaired.
93
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,400
It's also the time where I did lots of other things.
94
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,600
So I saw lots of different parts of climbing,
95
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,080
including doing first ascent, bolting routes,
96
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:51,680
replacing old gear on routes, multi-pitch, alpine,
97
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,040
sport climbing.
98
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,760
So yeah, also aid climbing, big wall.
99
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,160
Also put my nose into that for a very short moment.
100
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,640
So yes, so I've seen lots of different stuff.
101
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,160
And now, so to say, plastic climbing
102
00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,560
is one of the least exciting, or let's say,
103
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:18,040
the least adventurous part of my climbing work that I do.
104
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:19,320
Well, it's big fun.
105
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,280
And I still do stuff like, well, I
106
00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:25,200
don't need climbing anymore for safety reasons.
107
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,920
But I still do have, if I have to occasion, for example,
108
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,520
I still don't multi-pitch, for example.
109
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,360
And I also bolt new routes from time to time.
110
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,840
OK, yeah, so I was going to ask, was most of that outdoor stuff
111
00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:42,440
before the disability started to kick in?
112
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:47,640
Or do you still do bolting and, I guess,
113
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,240
probably no big wall stuff?
114
00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:50,600
Well, a big wall, not anymore.
115
00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,160
It was just one try once.
116
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,280
But multi-pitch, yeah, if I have the occasion for something,
117
00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,480
yes, and dreams and projects.
118
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:00,920
Also with other part-timers, there's
119
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,800
a funny video of Urko, the guy from Team Spain
120
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,880
with leg amputation.
121
00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,840
And I, we tried together in the Malas de Rigos,
122
00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:13,600
that's a big sandstone conglomerate towers here
123
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:20,760
in Spain, tried to get on top of those really interesting towers.
124
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,360
And we also did more than just that, what's shown in the video.
125
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,360
So from time to time, I get the occasion
126
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:27,520
to do something like that.
127
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,880
And for example, after the World Cup in Salt Lake,
128
00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,200
I went with a teammate, Kevin, who went together to Red Rocks
129
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,960
and did some multi-pitch there.
130
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:43,040
And yeah, so I tried to combine things.
131
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,080
I don't see any sense in just flying halfway around the world
132
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,920
to just climb two or maybe three routes,
133
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,400
that you don't even climb to the top, most likely, on plastic,
134
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,080
and then fly back home again.
135
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,760
Yeah, makes sense.
136
00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,160
That's not what's into my idea of climbing, so to say.
137
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,600
Once I'm there, I want to see more.
138
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:04,760
I want to do more.
139
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,000
I hope I can combine it in the future as well,
140
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,920
and so to keep up this combining things a bit.
141
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,520
So to be honest, I don't climb that much on plastic.
142
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,480
I live in Spain.
143
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,120
I'm competing for a team journal, but I live in Spain.
144
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:24,400
And I don't have good gym, let's say, possibilities here,
145
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,880
which are nearby and which fit to my needs, not at all.
146
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,840
I just can do bouldering here.
147
00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,920
And for safety reasons, I just do low traverses.
148
00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,960
So if I go bouldering, you just find me on a spray wall
149
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,240
doing max power training.
150
00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,440
Nothing else like that.
151
00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,960
And to be honest, yeah, it's good for your maximum power,
152
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,600
but it's not always fun.
153
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,040
If I want to really have fun or also, for example,
154
00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,040
if I want to do that kind of maximum power training,
155
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,720
I also can go outdoors and project some hard routes.
156
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,240
That's basically the same.
157
00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,880
You can also do bouldering on top rope on a hard project.
158
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,640
That's, in my opinion, mostly a similar effect.
159
00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,440
So how's the accessibility between the gym
160
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:15,760
versus going outside?
161
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,400
Because I would imagine it's sometimes pretty hard
162
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,800
to get to the crags or the boulders outside,
163
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,040
depending on what the trails are like.
164
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:26,640
Yeah, sure.
165
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:33,600
For example, if I try to do something like multi-pitch
166
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,160
or something like that, that's where mostly the approaches are
167
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:38,760
really, really hard.
168
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,520
There we have to select by what's the easiest one.
169
00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,360
So short approach and not scrambling too many kilometers
170
00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,520
through loose rock sections or getting up
171
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:57,240
loose rock fields or something like that, that's terrain
172
00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,400
which is almost impossible to me.
173
00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,040
But if it's a normal sport climbing crag,
174
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,640
which is accessible, so why not?
175
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,640
I don't see it that much as a big thing for me,
176
00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:14,000
but I've got to say I'm not relying on a wheelchair,
177
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,280
for example.
178
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,440
In that case, it would be totally different stories.
179
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,480
But if I see what my friends are doing
180
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,800
who are in a wheelchair, they get even to those crags
181
00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,720
with aid of friends and they don't care.
182
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:30,800
We are power climbers.
183
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,160
We're not searching for problems.
184
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,120
We are searching for solutions.
185
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,160
That's a good statement, a good way to put it.
186
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:42,240
So how old were you when you started to develop?
187
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:43,440
Ikylosing spondylitis.
188
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:44,880
Ikylosing spondylitis.
189
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,480
Yeah, how old were you when that started?
190
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,240
It started at the age of 13.
191
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,920
So you might say, wow, that's pretty young
192
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,960
for rheumatic disease.
193
00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:59,160
And that's correct, but it's a specific form of rheumatism.
194
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,800
By the way, it's the second most frequent one
195
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,960
right after rheumatic arthritis.
196
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:11,840
And here in northern Europe, it affects more or less
197
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:16,160
almost 0.5% of the population.
198
00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,280
So that's 1 in 200.
199
00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,320
And those are just the ones who get diagnosed.
200
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,800
That means there is the assumption
201
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,760
that there are way more cases that did not get a diagnosis
202
00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,080
because their symptoms are just so low that you
203
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,440
don't get diagnosed.
204
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:37,560
So it starts with light pain, maybe just in your lower back,
205
00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:39,960
which can be everything.
206
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:45,400
And sometimes it's also in the hips, for example.
207
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,960
And as it's a progressive disease,
208
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:55,120
it does not go in a constant sort of level of pain.
209
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,880
It just comes and goes.
210
00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:05,240
And if you have an active time with these rheumatic effects,
211
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,120
then it's maybe just a few days or a week or two
212
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,200
where you have got pain, and then it disappears completely.
213
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,240
And well, I mean, if it's in the beginning,
214
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,040
you think, well, it came on its own.
215
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:15,840
It went on its own.
216
00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,160
So it shouldn't be that serious, no?
217
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,360
But then it comes back again, and there's a moment
218
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,440
where it leaves something.
219
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,320
And then you don't go back to level zero again.
220
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,640
You're slightly built up over time, more and more impairment.
221
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,080
And that's what also happened to me.
222
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,360
And I got diagnosed at the age of 21, by the way.
223
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,680
So that means eight years after having the first symptoms.
224
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:47,320
And you might think, wow, that's a long time.
225
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,400
But this is actually more or less average.
226
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,200
So in Europe, the statistics say,
227
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,960
I think it's seven years in between the first symptoms
228
00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,040
and the final diagnosis, still on average in these days.
229
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:05,120
Because it starts slow, and it's hard to diagnose.
230
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,200
And especially those symptoms in the very beginning,
231
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:09,880
that can be everything.
232
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,120
And it's a hard diagnosis, and you really
233
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,240
have to be sure from a doctor's perspective
234
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,080
on who you're giving this label, so to say.
235
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,640
And also, there are certain criteria you have to fulfill.
236
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,600
And for example, if you are, as a patient,
237
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:31,840
not the one who just says it the way it's written in the doctor's
238
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,800
book, then maybe you don't get there,
239
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,640
or get there as easy as that.
240
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,560
And especially, there is another crux,
241
00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:47,880
which is this time dependency in between you
242
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,960
are having pain right now and when you get to the doctor.
243
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,680
Because let's say you have serious pain,
244
00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:56,800
and you're like, oh, I need to go to the doctor.
245
00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,760
You get an appointment next week.
246
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,640
And you go to the doctor, and your pain is gone.
247
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,040
Yeah, that's happened to me a bunch.
248
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,160
OK, and this happens quite often to people
249
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,820
with these form of diseases.
250
00:13:09,820 --> 00:13:12,760
And if you do that multiple times at the same doctor,
251
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,320
he will most likely say your problem is not
252
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,080
in your back or in your hips.
253
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,600
It's maybe right behind your eyes
254
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:20,680
and in between your ears.
255
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:23,000
Mm, right.
256
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:23,800
Right?
257
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,200
So and that happens.
258
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,480
I know people with ankylosing spondylitis
259
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,680
who are coming out of the psychiatry
260
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:41,200
and who were supposed to be like some where it was proposed.
261
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,520
There is some psychosomatic background
262
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,520
of this condition and not the rheumatic one.
263
00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,280
So there are people who get crossovers,
264
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,600
let's say, from the psychiatry part
265
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,880
to the rheumatic department of the medicine, which sounds
266
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:56,640
crazy.
267
00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,120
But I know multiple people where that happened to.
268
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,720
And trust me, if you experience something like that,
269
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,720
you have really trust issues in the medical system.
270
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,560
And I totally understand that.
271
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:11,160
Yeah, when you finally, I guess, got your diagnosis,
272
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,560
was that kind of a relief for you then?
273
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:16,120
Well, it was not so easy to get the diagnosis.
274
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,560
For me, that meant running half a year from doctor to doctor.
275
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,680
And one said, yeah, it's that.
276
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,000
Or the next one said, no, look at the picture.
277
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,440
Can be anything.
278
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,720
Just he did too much sport in the wrong way, whatever.
279
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,400
And the next one said, oh, maybe, yeah,
280
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:33,160
but look at that.
281
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,000
And I've got the next one to the next one to the next one.
282
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,520
And I had big question marks.
283
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:42,880
And getting such a label is hard.
284
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:43,680
It's really hard.
285
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,360
So for me, it was like falling into a black hole.
286
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,720
And at the time, I was studying chemistry
287
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:51,880
and being clinging a lot.
288
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,480
And it was like, well, I was standing in the chemistry lab
289
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:56,760
in the university.
290
00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,160
And I was asking myself, what am I actually doing here?
291
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,160
Does it make actually sense?
292
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,520
What's my life now going to?
293
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,040
I've got a progressive disease which cannot be healed.
294
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,280
Is this the end now?
295
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,800
What am I doing this for if I will end up, I don't know,
296
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,240
in a wheelchair being severely disabled anyway?
297
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,920
Because you get told the consequence is
298
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,520
quite drastic and clear.
299
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,200
And everyone can Google and see what that means.
300
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,600
And it doesn't mean that you have
301
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,400
to get the hardest form of it.
302
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,040
But I mean, Dr. Thau, so honest to you.
303
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,200
I guess I just assumed that a lot of para climbers
304
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:42,040
started out climbing with their disability or impairment.
305
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:47,120
And so I'm kind of wondering what that process was for you
306
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,040
to realize that you got this diagnosis.
307
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,680
And then, I don't know, I guess, grieve like climbing
308
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,280
as you knew it?
309
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,720
First of all, just knowing the name for the thing that you
310
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,360
have does change your climbing.
311
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,160
I mean, you just know, OK, now it has a name.
312
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,040
But it's still your life is still,
313
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,000
like the pain is not less or not more just knowing that,
314
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,720
at least in my case.
315
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,480
The psychological part, yeah, that
316
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,880
was a big thing for the moment.
317
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,720
And for me, it was like climbing always
318
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:33,920
was this good moment where I know it's good for my body,
319
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,960
maintain flexibility, strength, and also just having fun.
320
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,680
It's so important.
321
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,520
And that's something which helped me along
322
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,320
or through a lot of dark hours.
323
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:53,480
So it was a way to help me through this process a lot.
324
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:59,920
And also because they say the most important part of therapy
325
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,000
is like stay flexible, stay flexible, stay flexible.
326
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,240
So do sport, do sport, and do sports.
327
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,240
And climbing is perfect therapy for that.
328
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,080
And so it was a good way to maintain my body
329
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,200
in a good shape.
330
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,680
And nevertheless, I had a really severe form
331
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,000
which developed down.
332
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:28,760
So I even stopped climbing.
333
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,160
I was just able to walk with crutches for two years.
334
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,480
And then there was a time when I didn't climb for a moment.
335
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,560
But then I even went back with the crutches to the rock
336
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,480
and started climbing again.
337
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,760
And after two years, it took me half a year
338
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,000
to get away from the crutches.
339
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,120
So my pain level dropped.
340
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:52,320
And I had from that moment on no active inflammations anymore
341
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:52,880
in my body.
342
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,920
And since then, it also didn't higher back up, so to say.
343
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:03,400
So I'm officially in a stable state, which is also
344
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,960
which gives me actually the capability of doing
345
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,120
what I do now.
346
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:11,160
Because doing sports in a too hard way
347
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,520
with ankylosing spondylitis might trigger new inflammations.
348
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,120
So you're always riding on that tiny edge of like doing,
349
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,120
I've got to do something to stay in shape,
350
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:25,120
to stay flexible, to stay strong.
351
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:29,640
But if I go too far, I trigger the next big inflammation.
352
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,000
And then I might break down.
353
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,920
So it's like a really, really wide ride.
354
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,520
You have to manage that.
355
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,800
So do you ever have to hold back then
356
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,240
on trying harder?
357
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,360
Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
358
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:46,520
I mean, if you get kicked out with hard inflammations,
359
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:51,320
you can, we all should take medication to reduce your pain
360
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,760
and then think, oh, I can try harder now.
361
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,440
Your body will show you that he's also
362
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,760
capable of showing you even harder what he was trying
363
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,160
to say to you before.
364
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,080
Right, so I do not recommend that at all.
365
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,440
And I mean, I'm not a doctor.
366
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,280
I cannot recommend anything.
367
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:12,320
I'm not in position.
368
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,400
I just learned on my own body that most important thing is
369
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,840
listen to myself to try to understand this game
370
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,480
what's happening there.
371
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,760
Because I learned that's so much more than just something
372
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,240
I cannot control has influence on my level of pain.
373
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,000
It's much more, for example, if I was lucky, I had less pain.
374
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,880
If I had stress, I had more pain.
375
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,840
If I eat certain things, I got more pain.
376
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,440
So for example, I tried a bit of alcohol,
377
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,400
inflammations just right through the roof.
378
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,080
And I was completely full of pain.
379
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,400
And I was asked, why do people think that this alcohol makes
380
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,840
sense or is funny?
381
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,480
I didn't get it.
382
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,800
I don't drink it until now, so I don't need it.
383
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,360
And same about caffeine, for example.
384
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:07,200
So my way was to identify those factors.
385
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,680
And it's like if you're sitting on a table,
386
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,240
and people are playing cards, but you don't know the rules.
387
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,040
But if you're so watched long enough,
388
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,520
you can reverse engineer the rules
389
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:23,600
and realize the repeating moments of the game
390
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,840
and trying to get an idea of what it's like.
391
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,520
And that's what I did with my body.
392
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,840
So I was studying science, chemistry,
393
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,160
and sitting at a doctor who said, yeah, we
394
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,720
don't know where it's coming from, and we cannot be healed.
395
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,120
And good luck.
396
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:44,240
Was not the end for me, because it was like, OK,
397
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,080
someone is saying, I will not get it.
398
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,080
But that does not necessarily mean that there's no chance.
399
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,800
It just means that he does not know yet.
400
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,080
And when I always felt like, OK, there's
401
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,800
more than just that what the doctors say,
402
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,960
I said, OK, I'm going to dive into that.
403
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,840
I'm going to try to see what I can do with that
404
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:11,240
and get behind those things where I can do something.
405
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:17,360
And yeah, that led me on an adventurous path.
406
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:20,200
At the end, I mean, I'm here now.
407
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,280
I'm climbing.
408
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,920
I went through a deep, deep time of just being
409
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,880
able to walk crutches, almost sitting in a wheelchair.
410
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,200
And I've pied everything back for my life, and even more
411
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,600
than I did before.
412
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,400
I mean, I started scuba diving.
413
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,040
I'm doing a lot of things.
414
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,240
I do a lot of climbing.
415
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,200
Yeah, I got back a valid driver license.
416
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,640
I moved out to Germany, got self-employed.
417
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:58,320
So I think I'm living a life which
418
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,960
is a really privileged and lucky one.
419
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,960
And I'm a really happy guy, and I would say happier
420
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,440
than I was before.
421
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:13,040
And I found my luck in life in something completely different
422
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,280
than what it was before.
423
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:21,000
And I learned to read the things that my body wants
424
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,960
to tell me through my dialysis.
425
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:29,960
And I don't see it anymore as a burden or as something bad
426
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:30,800
that happens to me.
427
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,320
It's more like life showed me something,
428
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,880
and I tried to do something out of that.
429
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,880
And I always say, my slogan sort of says, take it, love it,
430
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,200
live it.
431
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,840
And that was the key for me, learning
432
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,640
to love what you have and trying to make the best out of it,
433
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,640
even if it's something which is considered
434
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,080
as the worst which can happen to you in life.
435
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,120
And that's what I'm trying to do every day.
436
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,120
And that's why I'm here still here,
437
00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:06,800
and that's why I'm a happy guy, not being depressed and not
438
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:07,640
in a wheelchair.
439
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:08,160
Awesome.
440
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:08,680
OK.
441
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,440
And I mean, it's opened new opportunities to you
442
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:16,200
through paragliding and all the work that you do through that.
443
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:16,880
Sure.
444
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:17,400
Sure.
445
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,440
I mean, every year I do things where I say,
446
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,360
wow, I could not have imagined this one year ago.
447
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,040
And the interesting thing is that it continues year by year,
448
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,320
and something is asking, oh, what's
449
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,000
going to happen next year?
450
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,600
And I'm pretty sure we're going to talk about the Paralympics,
451
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:37,200
for example.
452
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,120
And this is one of those topics, for example,
453
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:42,520
a topic where I did not believe it could actually happen
454
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,720
and that it's happening, it's getting real,
455
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,320
and the consequences of this is also one example.
456
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,680
Just if someone would have told this to me one year ago,
457
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,120
I would say, yeah, come on.
458
00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:57,800
Take Lex from these drugs.
459
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,800
It's better for everyone, please.
460
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:00,320
Yes.
461
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,920
I think that's a good transition into the Paralympics, which
462
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,200
for anyone who doesn't know, paragliding
463
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,680
has been approved as a sport for the Paralympics in LA,
464
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,680
2028, which is super exciting.
465
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,020
And you mentioned that you actually
466
00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:17,560
worked on filing the application for that.
467
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,640
So what was that process like?
468
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:20,680
Yeah.
469
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,280
I mentioned before I'm in the paragliding competition
470
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,640
scene since 2017.
471
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,720
I got there because I met Janek Ruder,
472
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:35,760
one of the bolder World Cup climbers from Team Slovenia
473
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,040
at that time.
474
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,480
He's not into the competition scene now anymore.
475
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,880
But I met him and he said, do you actually
476
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,600
know there's a competition format for you?
477
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,680
And I was like, what?
478
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:47,880
I don't know.
479
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,280
I didn't know how to spell IFSC and what that abbreviation
480
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,040
actually means in 2016 when I met him.
481
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,640
And so I googled a bit, found my way to the German team,
482
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,960
and since then I'm with them.
483
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:08,160
And in 2019, there was again elections for the IFSC athlete
484
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,360
representatives.
485
00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:16,000
And yeah, it was obvious that there were
486
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,040
lots of challenges in all the sport.
487
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:25,360
And I was not holding back and sharing my opinion.
488
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:29,640
And at that time, I was speaking three languages, German,
489
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,760
English, and French.
490
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:36,240
And I was helping a lot out with communication, translation,
491
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:37,400
explaining things.
492
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,800
And I had proposals, et cetera, and said,
493
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,880
hey, let's do something.
494
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,120
And I think there were four candidates for the position,
495
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:51,040
and the athletes voted in majority for me.
496
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,880
And since then, I was the athlete representative
497
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,280
for four years until 23.
498
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,960
I also got elected as the chair of the whole Paraclimbing
499
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:01,560
Commission.
500
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,760
So the Paraclimbing Commission in the IFSC
501
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:10,280
has two athlete representatives, coaches representatives,
502
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,920
experts, who, et cetera, and also classifiers.
503
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,000
So it's sort of say like everyone from this sport
504
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,080
sends a few experts to that table,
505
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,600
or a few representatives to that table, or one representative.
506
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,200
And those are the people who take the decisions,
507
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,080
discuss things, bring things from their community,
508
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,320
for example, to this table where decisions are made,
509
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,360
or what proposals are made, then towards the IFSC Executive
510
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:41,720
Board where things are decided, for example,
511
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,080
or some decisions we can swallow ones
512
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,360
that we can take on our own, or like send, for example,
513
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,120
new rule proposals, for example.
514
00:26:52,120 --> 00:27:01,120
And yeah, and since 2023, I'm just an expert in the commission.
515
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,160
And I'm still the chair.
516
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:10,880
And as part of that, the strategic plan from the IFSC
517
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:20,520
from 2020 to 2028 was getting sport climbing and power
518
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,040
climbing in the Olympic and the Paralympic Games
519
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,680
28 in Los Angeles.
520
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,680
And as it was in that plan, it was our commission, so to say,
521
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,000
who had the job to work on that.
522
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,840
And so I was the one who was guiding, accompanying,
523
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,000
leading the whole process behind the scenes
524
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,960
to get there, basically.
525
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,320
I guess what did you have to fill out
526
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,560
in terms of applying for the Paralympics?
527
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,000
So it's a long way.
528
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,840
I would start before that because there's actually,
529
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,880
I have to know that you have to apply seven years
530
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,040
before the Games.
531
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,000
Oh, wow.
532
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,840
And you have to apply every time from you again.
533
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,240
So it's not that you're in, for example,
534
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,520
a sport climbing got accepted as additional sport in Tokyo 2020.
535
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,640
So that did not automatically mean that sport climbing would
536
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,560
also be in Paris and also in LA.
537
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,000
They apply every time again.
538
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,880
Every sport does that.
539
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,400
And every edition of the Games has also
540
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,600
a different medals and athlete quota.
541
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,480
So because there is a top cap of the maximum number of athletes,
542
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,640
which is allowed due to the logistics,
543
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,520
capabilities of the Olympic Village, et cetera.
544
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,800
So you have to know that every medal that we get,
545
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,680
no matter if it's sport climbing or power climbing,
546
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,640
what every athlete we are allowed to bring more
547
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:58,240
to field of plays is reduced in another sport.
548
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,080
And also one big factor which is not known
549
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,080
is that just being as an able-bodied sport
550
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,800
in the Olympics does not necessarily
551
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,320
mean that your para sport is also in the Paralympics.
552
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,200
This is a precondition.
553
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,040
So your able-bodied partner sport
554
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:26,080
has to be Olympic to be able to apply for the Paralympics,
555
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,960
except one sport.
556
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,840
Except one sport is parabotcha because it has no able-bodied
557
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,680
partner sport.
558
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,520
But for the others, this is a precondition.
559
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,640
So if, for example, climbing would get kicked out
560
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,400
of the Olympics, automatically, power climbing
561
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,040
would also be not in the Paralympics anymore.
562
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,720
Well, good thing it's been confirmed through 32 at least.
563
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,400
Yeah, exactly.
564
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,200
So for 32, Brisbane, we have to apply again.
565
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,600
And this is seven years in one.
566
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:08,400
So that official deadline will be in 2016, right,
567
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,280
if I counted correctly?
568
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,600
25 next year?
569
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,720
Yeah, well, I think it's six years and a half, more or less.
570
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,640
And since COVID, a few deadlines moved.
571
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:26,600
So yeah, and there's a Paralympic handbook
572
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,800
where all what I'm telling you here is also written.
573
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,800
And so if anyone's interested, go to Paralympic.org
574
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,760
and read through those documents.
575
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,440
That's what I did, by the way, in the very beginning
576
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,640
when I got told, OK, Seb, this is the project, Paralympics
577
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,240
LA 28.
578
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,200
See how you can do that.
579
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,280
And so that's what I did.
580
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,280
I just picked the Paralympic handbook
581
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,200
and read, OK, what are the requirements?
582
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,520
Where are we?
583
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,920
And you have to know the IOC, so the International Olympic
584
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,080
Committee, and the International Paralympic Committee.
585
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:07,280
So IOC, IPC are two separate organizations.
586
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,960
They have similarities, but at the end, they are separate.
587
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,040
And one thing which is similar is
588
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,440
that many of the criteria you have
589
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,760
to fulfill for getting accepted into the Paralympics
590
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,480
are the exact same as it is for the Olympics.
591
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,120
So for example, you need an organization.
592
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,040
You need to organize your sport in a way
593
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,920
that you have got an international federation,
594
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,840
you have got national federations,
595
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,600
and you have to have common rules, et cetera, et cetera.
596
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,040
There are a lot of, let's say, governance criteria
597
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:41,800
into that catalog.
598
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,800
And once you are ready for them for the Olympics,
599
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,200
you're automatically ready for the Paralympics as well.
600
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,480
And in our case, as power climbing
601
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,800
is also managed by the IFSC, like sport climbing is also
602
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,560
managed by the IFSC, this is like you check it once
603
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,000
and then it's done.
604
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,960
Other power sports, for example, are separated and managed
605
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,680
by different organizations.
606
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,640
And that is, again, a different story.
607
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,400
Yeah, so you mentioned that it's never guaranteed
608
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,360
that you would be in the Olympics.
609
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,520
You have to apply every time.
610
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,960
But is it at least easier to make it into, say, like a?
611
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:17,880
Brisbane, Australia.
612
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:18,920
Oh, yeah, Brisbane.
613
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,760
Is it at least easier to make it in there after the LA games
614
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,080
happen, since you've already been in it once?
615
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,640
Yeah, once you have these criteria fulfilled.
616
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,160
And one of those, which we did not
617
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,080
fulfill in the beginning, was, for example, the IPC level
618
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,960
classification system.
619
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,640
So that's the big difference you have
620
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,040
in between an able-bodied sport and a power sport
621
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:46,440
is classification.
622
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,560
So classification means we look at our athletes
623
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,360
and regroup them into different groups
624
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,440
where we have an equal sport activity so that not
625
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,320
the least impaired wins, but the one who
626
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,880
brings the best performance or the best sport activity
627
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,120
in comparison to his impairment.
628
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,200
And we want to have a fair competition.
629
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,440
So that means we don't let, for example, a visually impaired
630
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,920
climb against someone who is leg-amputeed.
631
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,480
And this person, again, climbed against someone
632
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,400
who is arm-amputeed, for example.
633
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,080
Because that would not be a competition.
634
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:30,720
That would be like, I don't know, fun climbing together.
635
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,560
So we need to have as equal conditions as possible.
636
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,080
And for sure, every sport class.
637
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,880
So that's the result on what a classification leads to.
638
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,000
We group the athletes in sport classes.
639
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,240
And every sport class has an upper and a lower end.
640
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,120
So there's always strong two-range.
641
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,800
But at least it's fairer than having none at all.
642
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,600
So at the moment in power climbing,
643
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,840
we have 10 sport classes.
644
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:02,600
And for example, once you have that system installed,
645
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,680
you have done a big, big step.
646
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,560
And this was one of the main, or I would say,
647
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,840
the biggest task for the whole power climbing commission
648
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,080
to fulcrum before we could apply.
649
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,320
Because when you apply for the games, and at the end,
650
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,960
you apply by actually filling out a questionnaire
651
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,080
and to show who you are, what you do.
652
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,480
And every sport does that.
653
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,720
And then the IPC and the IOC evaluates that
654
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:32,680
and makes a decision based on that.
655
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:38,120
And that's a bit of a secret on what actually submitted.
656
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,120
And no one knows what the others write in there.
657
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,840
And sometimes I think it must be fun to work at the IPC
658
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:49,560
to read out of non-statements that will never be published.
659
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:57,480
And yeah, I say in climbing, we focus on our field of play,
660
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,000
which is the wall.
661
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,600
But at those Olympic federations,
662
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,360
they do sport with sports.
663
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,440
And it's more like sport A against sport B
664
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,920
against sport C, who's better?
665
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,640
Yeah, who can get more presentation?
666
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:18,560
Yeah.
667
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,800
Whatever, yeah.
668
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,760
So no one knows exactly how those criteria are weighted
669
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,640
and taken into consideration.
670
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,720
But once you have seen all of this process,
671
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:35,400
it's like once you have climbed your project,
672
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,440
you know how it went.
673
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:40,280
Now it goes.
674
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,640
You know the beta.
675
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,040
And that's what we do now.
676
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,600
Now we sort of say, bolded our way
677
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,280
through this whole application process.
678
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,800
And we did it on site, I would say.
679
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,280
Like first trial.
680
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,920
It was the first trial we ever applied.
681
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,760
And we got accepted.
682
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:03,400
And you have to know that the Paralympic Games in 28
683
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:09,040
got 33 applications from 33 different sports, power sports.
684
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:16,040
And yeah, 22 were accepted right away.
685
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,680
And those are the 22 program sports,
686
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,120
which are the same like I know in Paris, 24.
687
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:28,360
And then the IOC, the IPC, granted local organizer, LA 28,
688
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,880
to decide if they want to have power climbing and slash
689
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,520
or power surfing as additional sports from their choice,
690
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,480
also into the Paralympic Games program.
691
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:51,200
And in 24, in June, it was published
692
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,880
that they did a long evaluation.
693
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,360
So we waited way longer than it was announced earlier.
694
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,360
Yeah, it was delayed.
695
00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:59,160
Yeah.
696
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,160
Yeah, it was delayed.
697
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,880
And that shows that negotiations must have been really
698
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,000
tough behind the scenes.
699
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,800
And I was always like trying to calm everyone down,
700
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,480
because no one knows what was going to happen.
701
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,440
Just reading that just means like it could be like LA 28
702
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,840
would say like, OK, sorry, we cannot handle
703
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:24,160
any additional sport anymore, or just one, or two.
704
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,360
No one knew the outcome.
705
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:31,040
And I always said like, as long as there is no no,
706
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,280
someone is still hoping, believing, and working on it.
707
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,000
And yeah, finally, we were in.
708
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,960
Surfing was out.
709
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,960
And sorry for your surfing.
710
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,000
I'm sorry for power surfing exactly,
711
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,120
because they went together to the Olympics.
712
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,440
So it was skating, surfing, climbing,
713
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,400
who got together, included into Olympics.
714
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,360
And now power climbing is the only power sport of those three
715
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,440
who is into the Paralympics.
716
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,600
And I know that power surfing applied also
717
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,920
before even for Paris, but got rejected.
718
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,320
And power climbing just applied for the very first time for LA.
719
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,080
And we did not know how this process would go.
720
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,560
So we just with the when I started
721
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,080
as an athlete representative in 2009, in 2020,
722
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,320
it started like, OK, this is the plan.
723
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,120
This is where we're going to go.
724
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:33,240
And yeah, I would say we just met the right people.
725
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:35,880
We got the good ideas together.
726
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,840
And in the very beginning, I was talking
727
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,280
to many experts from these Paralympic teams.
728
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,240
So to say like, for example, National Paralympic
729
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,120
Commissions, chief classifiers from other sports,
730
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,200
they were all telling me like, yeah, you can try.
731
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,880
But chances that you're going to be in LA
732
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,840
will be like super, super small.
733
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,760
And then also knowing like who are our competitors,
734
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,200
so to say, for the sports, knowing those sports
735
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,920
are applying for each edition of the games again,
736
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:04,960
and again, and again.
737
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,880
And they get rejected, rejected, rejected.
738
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,000
And some also got excluded, for example, power sailing,
739
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,520
for example.
740
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,840
And if you get excluded, you apply again.
741
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,040
So those are sports which are well-settled.
742
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,520
They know the process.
743
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,880
And we were, so to say, like the new guys
744
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,840
on the scene who had no idea on how this actually goes.
745
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:35,240
And I still have the feeling that this is the case.
746
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:36,080
But never mind.
747
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:41,120
It's like if you see a line on a rock which you want to climb,
748
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,280
and you just say like no matter how hard or easy it is,
749
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,320
I just go for it because I like it.
750
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,280
This is my goal now.
751
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:49,640
And that's what we did.
752
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:50,160
Yeah.
753
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,400
I mean, sorry to Parasurfing.
754
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,240
And congrats on the on-site for getting into the Paralympics.
755
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:56,920
Thank you.
756
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,000
So do you know which sport classes
757
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,320
will be able to participate in the Paralympics?
758
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,200
Please excuse this brief intermission.
759
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,360
But I've gotten a few requests for this.
760
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,840
So I just wanted to announce that if you're
761
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,400
interested in helping support the show,
762
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,400
my Patreon page is now live.
763
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,720
Some perks include ad-free, interruption-free episodes,
764
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:20,400
deleted scenes, prioritized guest questions,
765
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,920
or the ability to submit video questions,
766
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,120
an enamel pin shipped to you after two months of membership,
767
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,160
and much more to come.
768
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,480
The proceeds go back into the podcast to help me break even.
769
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,440
And they help improve the experience of the guests.
770
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,160
If you'd like to support the podcast non-monetarily,
771
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,840
liking, commenting, and sharing helps a great deal as well.
772
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,600
Back to the show.
773
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,520
At the moment, we don't know.
774
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,880
So now it's summer 24.
775
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:53,440
And according to the handbook, the final sport classes
776
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,880
at the final athlete and medal quarter
777
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,400
has always announced 3 and 1 half years, more or less,
778
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:00,160
before the game.
779
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,160
So that means mid 25.
780
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,920
We can expect that.
781
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,640
Maybe it would be towards the end.
782
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,160
So no one knows as deadlines are a bit moving.
783
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,880
But we expect this quota in 25.
784
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,240
And then it's up to the IFSC to decide
785
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,000
which sport class is going to get Paralympic
786
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,720
and which one's not getting Paralympic.
787
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:24,760
So as I said, we have 10 sport classes
788
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,920
at the moment for each gender.
789
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,480
We don't know how many medals we're going to get.
790
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,600
Would it be one, two, three, four, five?
791
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:34,560
I don't know.
792
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,400
Oh, wow, one is going to be hard.
793
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,400
One is going to be hard, yes.
794
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,280
And there will be tough decisions ahead of us.
795
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,800
And I hope the community will manage to stay together.
796
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,160
In other sports, this is a normal procedure already.
797
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,000
They are into it.
798
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,720
For our Paralympic community, it's always very challenging,
799
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:04,080
as everyone has to learn new things over time now.
800
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,200
And just for example, the introduction
801
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,600
of the new classification system.
802
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,920
So we were coming from a classification system
803
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,480
before we introduced the IPSC one, which was just
804
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:15,840
2 and 1 half pages long.
805
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,840
Now we have 50 pages, more or less.
806
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,680
So 5, 0 pages.
807
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,160
And these are the model rules that the IPSC
808
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:30,200
requires you to have, which are in those forms,
809
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,800
and let's say more or less applied in all sports.
810
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,560
And so that means they are well tested,
811
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,960
they are well prepared, and they have considered so many things
812
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:46,240
that we did not have in our 2 and 1 half pages of rules
813
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:47,040
that we had before.
814
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,600
But those rules were running fine for many, many years
815
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,000
in IPSC Paralympic.
816
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,520
So when it started 2011, there were several modifications.
817
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,040
But the biggest step now was definitely
818
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,720
when we introduced the IPSC-based classification
819
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,720
system and their rules.
820
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:09,480
And actually, it sounds a bit weird maybe,
821
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,960
but COVID helped us here.
822
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,960
Because we had one year without competitions.
823
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,680
And in this year, we had the time
824
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,200
to prepare and silence it without having
825
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:25,120
the rush of the running season to implement the new rules.
826
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,000
Think about our sports specific classification system,
827
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,120
because each par sport has his own set of individual rules
828
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,240
for the sport.
829
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:39,040
And someone had to invent it.
830
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,360
And the commission and an expert show greetings
831
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,080
to Sean Spencer, physio from Australia,
832
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,400
who was our pioneer just writing on a blank sheet of paper
833
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,320
the first lines on how this new classification system
834
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,080
for climbing should look like.
835
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,320
And since then, it was introduced in 21.
836
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,400
It was revised every year.
837
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:07,400
And if I look back and see the kind of modifications
838
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,520
that were done over the years, I would say the first draft
839
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,960
or the first version was already really, really good,
840
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,320
just coming from a blank paper.
841
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,560
And this is the hardest step.
842
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,560
And it's good to know that it's done now
843
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,840
and that we can just improve existing rules and work
844
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,840
on that instead of being challenged
845
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,600
with inventing something completely from you again.
846
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:41,240
So if we were only given one medal for the Paralympics,
847
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,440
what do you think would be the most likely sport
848
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,240
class to go in?
849
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:48,600
I don't know.
850
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,320
And I don't think that I'm in a position
851
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,280
to make guesstimations here.
852
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,400
But I can tell you the criteria that the IPC
853
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,400
is requesting this sport to fulfill.
854
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,960
So you need to show that you have gender equality.
855
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,680
So that means we have to have a sport class which has,
856
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,200
for example, not just men and no women,
857
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,400
but we still have that in one case.
858
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,120
Sadly, this is the AL1 sport class.
859
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,520
This is the leg amputee or, let's say,
860
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,760
loss of control and muscle power and neurological control
861
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,400
in both legs.
862
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,240
So those who are sitting in the wheelchair
863
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:37,440
and can't pressing everything, there we have,
864
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,560
over the past years, we developed a stable sport
865
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,960
class on the men's side, which is competing on their own
866
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,080
in each competition, but none on the women's side.
867
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,320
So for example, then it can tell you
868
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,560
this sport class would then not fulfill this gender equality
869
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,200
criteria.
870
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:10,880
Then you need to show a robust and precise classification
871
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,120
process for that sport.
872
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:17,400
So a sport class has to be well-defined and have,
873
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,360
let's say, a proper setup.
874
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:27,760
And there it starts with being a bit vague on, in my opinion,
875
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:33,920
to say what the IPC might mean with that.
876
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:39,480
And to be honest, I don't have too much insight
877
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,480
and comparison in between other power sports
878
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,520
and see what's a good setup in this case
879
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,200
and which one is a setup where you think it could be optimized.
880
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,680
I just don't know that.
881
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,720
And then the IPC is also in favor
882
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:58,360
of more severe sport classes.
883
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:03,760
So that's something they support.
884
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,320
And in general, I think that means
885
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,040
what they just want is a good show.
886
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,760
Yeah.
887
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,840
I mean, I guess that makes sense, yeah.
888
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,840
A decision will be made in 25, for sure.
889
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,360
And it will be for this edition of the Games Only.
890
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,520
I hope that also those sport classes who will not
891
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,680
be Paralympic will keep their spirit,
892
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,120
because this will have no effect on the IPC format
893
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,840
that we have inside our World Cup and World Championship
894
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:35,640
Series.
895
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,480
That will all stay the same and not be affected by that.
896
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:45,080
So we're not going to bend the sport for the Olympic setup in 28.
897
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,120
So it will remain the way it is.
898
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,160
And we're going to work on that.
899
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,320
And the Olympics is just one addition
900
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,560
on top of that, the existing thing.
901
00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:02,960
But it's not going to feed back on the current format we have.
902
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,320
And I hope also National Federations will support
903
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,800
and keep sending those athletes who are not
904
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,720
in a Paralympic sport class.
905
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:17,120
And because we need this variety and we need also
906
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,960
these sport classes to grow.
907
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,240
Because we need to show that we have the numbers,
908
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:26,160
and that's also basically a requirement,
909
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,160
we need to show the numbers over the years
910
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,440
and the sport classes we want to propose
911
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,560
for potential future inclusion.
912
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,120
So if you, for example, would say, OK, let's just
913
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,080
say we get two medals in 28.
914
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,600
And everyone focuses just on those two sport classes
915
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,760
and just forgets on one of the eight,
916
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,360
I think we will lose a big part of the sport.
917
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:53,840
And this will be a huge mistake and would automatically
918
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,280
take away the chance from growing any further.
919
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,240
Because we need every sport class that we have.
920
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:01,080
And we need the numbers.
921
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,120
And even if it's just a single competitor
922
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,720
from a single country who is there
923
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:09,400
all over the consistently competing in all the years,
924
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,840
that's super important.
925
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,520
Because there's also one criteria
926
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,200
where you have to show that you have got a global reach
927
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,760
and relevancy with your sport.
928
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:23,960
So the athlete wants to see 32 competing countries
929
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,920
on a regular basis.
930
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,640
And it's also one of those criteria's
931
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,560
from the big list of the handbook.
932
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:36,480
And even more, to have a Paralympic sport class,
933
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:44,840
you need to show that you have got at least 10 athletes
934
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:49,160
from four different countries in both genders
935
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,360
over the whole period of statistics
936
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,320
you send for the application.
937
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:58,080
OK, yeah, we'll see what comes of that in 2025, I guess.
938
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:04,320
Moving on to your experience being athlete representative
939
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,880
and being chairman of the Paraclimbing Commission,
940
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,480
what do you feel like are some of the biggest issues you've
941
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,760
tackled so far doing that?
942
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,080
And what are some issues you're still working on
943
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:16,320
within Paraclimbing?
944
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,800
You had a transition from just being an athlete
945
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,800
to being a representative.
946
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,840
And suddenly, being in a position
947
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,000
in between the athletes and the IFSC,
948
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,280
sitting in between all of those chairs,
949
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,280
so to say, was really challenging in the beginning
950
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:41,120
for me because I had no one to ask or to get experience from.
951
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:42,480
I tried to.
952
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,360
I tried to reach out to the Able Body Athlete Commission,
953
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,000
but I failed in the beginning.
954
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,680
In the meantime, I have the contacts.
955
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,560
And no, I don't have the questions anymore.
956
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:56,880
Gotcha.
957
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,640
Yeah.
958
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,640
But at the time, I would have needed some help.
959
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:03,480
It was out there.
960
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:09,320
So that was a very tough time in the beginning
961
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,080
because I didn't know what I did not know.
962
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:18,520
And there's no handbook on this is how the IFSC works,
963
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,200
and this is how things go in the sport behind the field of play,
964
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:24,680
behind the scenes.
965
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:30,240
And you have to just go there and get as much
966
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,800
as you can get in that moment and then
967
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,280
puzzle together your picture on where you are,
968
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,040
what your possibilities are, and to learn how things go.
969
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,960
And the first thing I learned was that, yes,
970
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:48,280
as an athlete, as an individual sportsman or woman,
971
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:49,520
you have your mission.
972
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,720
You have your view on things.
973
00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:56,280
But not necessarily does that mean that there's
974
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,600
other perspectives and opinions, for example,
975
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,760
from an event organizer, from the IFSC,
976
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,040
from the national federations.
977
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:05,320
And they can all be different.
978
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,320
And they all have good reasons for their position.
979
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,440
But when you're just an athlete, you don't know that.
980
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,400
You don't know the reasons.
981
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,040
You don't know why things are the way they are.
982
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:21,200
And I was then in a role also to explain things
983
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,880
towards athletes and say, look, not someone just
984
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,280
didn't get something or missed something.
985
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,520
That might have happened, sure.
986
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,760
But for many things, there's reasons
987
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,400
why things are the way they are.
988
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,400
And they are not safe, self-explanatory.
989
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,400
And then it's up to the athlete representative
990
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,040
to just explain those things and tries
991
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:49,080
to put some more explanation into things,
992
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,200
explain rules, explain changes.
993
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,840
And it was a tough time, especially
994
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,960
during all those rule changes, which for sure
995
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,760
produced lots of tears and drama.
996
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,680
Because, for example, the IPC-based classification
997
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,400
system introduced some things that were not existing before.
998
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,520
So from that moment on, the IPC has
999
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,280
a different of eligible impairments
1000
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:16,960
that are allowed to compete.
1001
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,720
And also a list of non-eligible impairments.
1002
00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:23,000
You can read it at the end of our classification rules.
1003
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,200
They are in the resources on the IFSC page.
1004
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,880
So if someone's interested to read all of that,
1005
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:28,720
take a look in there.
1006
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:29,640
Oh, I don't like it.
1007
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:36,640
And it's an interesting read, in my opinion.
1008
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,760
And my recommendation to all the athletes
1009
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,040
is also to take a look in there.
1010
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,440
And you will get a deeper understanding.
1011
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,240
Because being a parathetic does not just
1012
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:51,720
mean you have to play well on the field of play.
1013
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,560
You also need to know the rules.
1014
00:53:54,560 --> 00:54:00,400
And it's not enough to just say, yeah, my coach knows
1015
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,120
how it goes and he has to instruct me.
1016
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:04,760
No.
1017
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,760
You have to know on your own, and especially
1018
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:12,000
in the very beginning, when you get your first classification,
1019
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,440
when you're approaching that, it's a very important task
1020
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,560
that you should prepare well.
1021
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,440
And it starts way earlier than just,
1022
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,800
I'm traveling to a competition and I'm seeing all paraclimbing
1023
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,440
classifiers and I get the evaluation session
1024
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,520
and they assign me a sport class and then I go to qualification.
1025
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:32,880
No, it starts way earlier.
1026
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,000
And that needs to be well prepared.
1027
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,160
And those are things that were really
1028
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,320
changing with the new system.
1029
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,760
And also one thing which I think got most of the controversy
1030
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,040
and tears and drama was the introduction of minimum
1031
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,160
impairment criteria.
1032
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,440
So that means there's a minimum level of impairment
1033
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,400
defined for each sport class that you
1034
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,880
have to fulfill to be eligible for competing.
1035
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,480
Well, was that not there before?
1036
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,040
It wasn't there before.
1037
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,000
It was just a very vague definition.
1038
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,520
But in some cases, it was there.
1039
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,440
For example, in the visual impaired sport classes
1040
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:16,160
or in I think the AL2 sport class also had a definition.
1041
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,120
But for example, the RP sport classes,
1042
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,480
so those who have limited range, power, stability,
1043
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,920
so those with neurological and physiological impairments,
1044
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,440
there was no real minimum impairment criteria defined
1045
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,920
and also not really defined how it is assessed, et cetera.
1046
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,600
And all of that is now defined.
1047
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:41,320
And by having no limit there or minimum criteria
1048
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,320
and by introducing one, there were
1049
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,640
athletes who were competing before but then being excluded
1050
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,840
and being not eligible anymore.
1051
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:50,960
And those were even more than 10%
1052
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,760
that we just lost with just introducing a new system.
1053
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,080
And for sure, that got a lot of discussions, a lot of tears,
1054
00:55:58,080 --> 00:55:58,960
a lot of drama.
1055
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,800
And it still happens that in these days
1056
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,360
that people are coming to competitions
1057
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:05,800
and then find out that they are not
1058
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,440
eligible for the sport for whatever reason.
1059
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:15,480
There might be many reasons, but it's not many cases.
1060
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,600
And there is also a system which tries
1061
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,880
to detect those people so that no one is traveling
1062
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:27,720
halfway around the world to say that he's not
1063
00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:30,800
eligible to compete of what we want.
1064
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,520
So that's why everyone has to also to submit
1065
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,400
their medical documentation beforehand.
1066
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,440
And that's why I say it's very important
1067
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,280
that athletes understand it and their classification process
1068
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:49,960
starts when they print out this form they need to fill out
1069
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,480
by their medical doctor, which is then submitted to the IFSC.
1070
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,760
And it's checked when they apply.
1071
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,440
And if there are any questions, they're
1072
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,720
getting back to the athletes and maybe warning people
1073
00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:02,560
and say, hey, you might be a borderline case.
1074
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:03,200
Look on that.
1075
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,440
Or we need additional documentation here.
1076
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:10,280
So that's a way more robust and really way more professional
1077
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,400
system we have now in comparison to what was there before.
1078
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,200
So did these changes just take effect this year?
1079
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,280
No.
1080
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:26,080
This was introduced in 21 when the first version
1081
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,600
of the IPC-based classification system
1082
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,560
was introduced by the IFSC.
1083
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,920
At this competition, it was in Sprook in 2021,
1084
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,560
where all the athletes have to undergo classification again,
1085
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:45,800
everyone, because no one had a valid classification.
1086
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,600
No one had a valid sports class classification anymore.
1087
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:52,680
So everyone had to go through the process again.
1088
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,680
That's what we did.
1089
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:59,560
And that's where the completely new field was set up.
1090
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,080
And also, as not everyone was traveling
1091
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,800
to this competition, there were, let's say,
1092
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:11,160
also big classification sessions after this first competition.
1093
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,680
And also, there are many possible outcomes
1094
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,320
of a classification process.
1095
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,760
Sometimes it's not just that you get a sport class, which
1096
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,880
means, for example, like B1.
1097
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,320
So that's the most severe visually impaired sport class.
1098
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,160
You also get a sport class status,
1099
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:31,720
which indicates how secure your classification, sport
1100
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:33,080
class is.
1101
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:38,000
So that means some, for example, have a confirmed status.
1102
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,520
So I, for example, have one that's
1103
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,160
where the medical experts say, OK, this
1104
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:43,880
is a super stable condition.
1105
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:45,920
It's not going to change.
1106
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,240
It would stay the way it is, and that's it.
1107
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,840
So then you get a confirmed status.
1108
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,120
If, for example, your condition is subject to change,
1109
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:58,520
for example, it's a progressing disease in whatever direction,
1110
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,640
might improve or make it worse, whatever,
1111
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:07,520
the classifiers might give you a fixed review date.
1112
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:11,360
So that means, for example, they give you a fixed review date,
1113
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,600
26, for example.
1114
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,720
That means at the first occasion or before you
1115
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,000
have the first competition in this year,
1116
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,320
you have to undergo classification,
1117
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,280
the classification process again from you again.
1118
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:30,640
And also, you can have a review status, which means,
1119
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:35,520
and you have to undergo classification again
1120
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,280
at the next possible occasion.
1121
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:43,880
And for example, if, so it's complex.
1122
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,120
And I'm just describing some scenarios here.
1123
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,320
There are even more possible outcomes,
1124
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,960
but those are roughly the scenarios that exist.
1125
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,520
And this status, by the way, either it's
1126
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:58,720
so at different stages.
1127
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,000
First, you submit the documents.
1128
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,320
Documents are checked.
1129
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,000
Then you travel to a competition.
1130
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,520
Before the competition, there's the so-called evaluation
1131
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:09,040
session where you see for the first time the medical experts,
1132
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:13,080
the sport classifiers from our power sports or power climbing
1133
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,840
classifiers.
1134
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:20,280
They assess the athlete then and see the documentation,
1135
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:21,800
see the athletes there.
1136
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,080
They do specific tests based on their impairment.
1137
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:26,760
So it's also described in the rule books
1138
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,800
which tests they're going to run through.
1139
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,920
And from those tests, you get a score and score that says,
1140
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,160
OK, this is your sport class.
1141
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:39,320
And after that, we start with the quantification session.
1142
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,640
And in the quantification session, the, so maybe,
1143
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,720
oh, sorry, forgot one thing.
1144
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:50,040
In some cases, the classifiers may say, OK, we did now
1145
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:54,040
hear our tests here on a test bench and our examination room.
1146
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,080
But we want to see on the wall and do a so-called sport
1147
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:58,400
specific test.
1148
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,040
So for example, they say, like, OK, here's a ball of the wall
1149
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,240
or here's a small top rope.
1150
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:04,840
And you climb there.
1151
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:06,520
And we let you do some moves.
1152
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,840
They want to see the impairment in action.
1153
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:14,400
So the classifiers can request that.
1154
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,600
And after all of this assessment part,
1155
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:24,040
they give the athlete a sport class
1156
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,800
and sometimes also already sport class status.
1157
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,040
But all of that is subject to observation
1158
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:31,760
in the qualification session.
1159
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,640
So our classifiers are watching the comp,
1160
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:36,480
the qualification session, and then
1161
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,800
see if the sport activity level on the wall
1162
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,040
matches that what they assessed before in the evaluation
1163
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:45,000
session.
1164
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:46,800
And if, for example, I would pretend like,
1165
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,640
oh, I don't get my arm further up than this
1166
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,160
in the evaluation session on the bench test,
1167
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,680
and then suddenly in competition, I'm like,
1168
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,000
this up here.
1169
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,880
And then for sure, our classifiers
1170
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:03,400
might have some question.
1171
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:04,240
OK, gotcha.
1172
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:05,240
What happens?
1173
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:06,240
Yeah.
1174
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,080
That happens.
1175
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:13,320
And that has, I would say, it can also
1176
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:17,080
be like an impairment shows in a completely different way
1177
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,040
than it was expected for.
1178
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:20,240
Maybe it's a rare case.
1179
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,280
No one has ever seen it before.
1180
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,520
The classifiers have to discuss it again, for example.
1181
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,520
And there can even be drastic decisions
1182
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,080
at that time being taken.
1183
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:36,040
So for example, the most severe action they can take
1184
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:41,720
is to give someone the CNC sport class, that's
1185
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:43,400
classification not completed.
1186
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:50,400
So that means this person may not compete anymore.
1187
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,440
So in this case means that your climbing
1188
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:57,200
is over after the qualification, and you are not
1189
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,240
allowed to climb in finals.
1190
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:02,160
And in this case, this person has
1191
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:06,360
to undergo the next possible occasion for classification
1192
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,080
in order to compete again.
1193
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:12,360
And in very severe cases, the classifiers
1194
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:17,080
can also raise the case of intentional misrepresentation,
1195
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,120
also known as cheating.
1196
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:23,200
And if that's proven, it can lead up
1197
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,560
to a ban from the sport for many years.
1198
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:32,560
And I think we did not have any proven cases in climbing yet,
1199
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,840
because if our classifiers are really like,
1200
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,880
they know how to intervene and to say something in a way
1201
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:45,320
like they don't have to bring all those super drastic measures
1202
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,600
and to handle it in a good way.
1203
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:52,960
But in other sports, this seems to be more of a topic
1204
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:54,120
in other power sports.
1205
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:54,880
Oh, really?
1206
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:55,520
Yeah.
1207
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,640
I would say to make this even complete,
1208
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:02,720
there's also a case of protest and appeal
1209
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,520
can also be raised against decisions.
1210
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,400
But this very clearly defined on who may
1211
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,000
protest against which decision.
1212
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,160
And it's very complex.
1213
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,440
It's a complete own section in the rule book.
1214
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,480
But so if you're interested, read that.
1215
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,800
And there can be very different reasons
1216
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,400
why something happens in a power sport because
1217
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,760
of classification rules.
1218
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,600
And yeah, that's challenging sometimes
1219
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:39,600
to explain to athletes and also as our classifiers have
1220
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:46,360
to, yeah, there's strict confidentiality on those data
1221
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:47,960
and those things.
1222
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,120
So you would never be allowed, for example,
1223
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,880
to accompany an athlete with a camera team
1224
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,040
into a classification session.
1225
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,520
That will never happen.
1226
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:02,960
And so they will also never give a statement in public
1227
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,520
on why a decision was made this way.
1228
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:11,000
It's a strict confidentiality there.
1229
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:14,240
But there are rules which are there for.
1230
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,880
And there are also always ways on how to protest and appeal
1231
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:19,400
against decisions.
1232
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:25,040
So I guess the classification process kind of reminds me
1233
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,320
of what you were talking about earlier when you were saying
1234
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,840
that you have a big issue, and then you go to the doctor,
1235
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,120
and you have to wait, and it just
1236
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:33,760
happens to be better that day.
1237
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:38,720
I guess what happens if you get classified
1238
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:43,720
and then you climb in qualifiers and you just that day
1239
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:48,840
happen to be kind of doing better or your impairment
1240
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:49,560
is not as good?
1241
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:50,560
Yeah.
1242
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,320
You had a bad day in classification,
1243
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:54,760
and next day you had a good day in qualification.
1244
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:55,920
Yeah.
1245
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:56,760
Yeah.
1246
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:58,920
That can happen.
1247
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,240
There are many impairments which are fluctuating,
1248
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,840
or some are even, for example, temperature dependent.
1249
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:11,000
There are impairments who depend on stress, for example.
1250
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:15,400
And it's not an easy job for a classifier
1251
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:23,560
to make this differentiation on what is impairment, what
1252
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:28,480
is training, and what is, for example,
1253
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:32,760
an aspect of the form of that day.
1254
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:38,080
And our classifiers are experienced in climbing.
1255
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,240
And some of our classifiers are also climbing
1256
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:41,560
on a really, really high level.
1257
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:46,760
So we have classifiers who climb up to 8A, 8B.
1258
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,440
And sometimes they also test our routes, by the way,
1259
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,420
if there is occasion for that.
1260
01:06:52,420 --> 01:06:55,440
And mostly that I really like that.
1261
01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:00,680
So maybe you get the chance to get also a classifier
1262
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,600
on your podcast, because you already have
1263
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:04,720
your route typed out.
1264
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:09,520
So why not also classifier here and giving deeper insight
1265
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:10,040
into that?
1266
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,400
Because I'm no medical expert on that.
1267
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,360
I can just explain from my experience
1268
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,720
and what I saw in the sport and what I know from the rules.
1269
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,720
But that's not the full picture, for sure.
1270
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:26,080
And so this question you asked to me would be,
1271
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:29,280
I would love to hear the answers from a classifier there.
1272
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:33,540
And I know that when they watch athletes in the competition,
1273
01:07:33,540 --> 01:07:36,200
they discuss after qualification.
1274
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,840
And this can take a long time.
1275
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:42,320
So we know from everybody qualifications,
1276
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,080
once they've climbed, that's the result list.
1277
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:49,480
Then you have got this period where a protest can be raised.
1278
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,480
And then after that period is over,
1279
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,160
this is the final competition results.
1280
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,040
You have the group which moves on to the next round.
1281
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:56,840
That's it.
1282
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:57,520
Closed.
1283
01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:58,520
It's closed.
1284
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,840
And para climbing, this is not the case.
1285
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,880
It can happen that the last climber is on the wall.
1286
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:06,680
We are coming down.
1287
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:08,600
There's the list of rankings.
1288
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:10,600
And then the classifiers start their discussion
1289
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:12,920
round on their observations.
1290
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,120
And that can take a long time.
1291
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:20,440
So maybe you go back to your hotel on the qualification day
1292
01:08:20,440 --> 01:08:24,400
and you still don't have the final list of results.
1293
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:28,760
It can sometimes take hours before you
1294
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,600
know the final sport class and sport class
1295
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,280
status for each athlete.
1296
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:38,200
And following that, also, where all class athletes
1297
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,920
who were observed, are they still in the game?
1298
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,320
And will they move to the next round or not?
1299
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,760
And I mean, it doesn't happen that often
1300
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:51,120
that we see big differences.
1301
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,680
But here and there, there are people
1302
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,880
who are, there are changes after qualifications.
1303
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:02,160
So you just have to know that this
1304
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:05,680
is the big difference in between everybody and para
1305
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,600
in terms on how qualification works.
1306
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:10,400
The qualification day works.
1307
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:13,280
OK, I'll try to get a classifier on then.
1308
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:16,120
Thank you for the explanation of classification.
1309
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:17,880
It's a complicated process.
1310
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:21,040
So I'm glad that we can get a little bit more information
1311
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,160
out there about it.
1312
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:28,720
But yeah, moving on to, I guess, more of your personal life
1313
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,920
or non-competition life.
1314
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,720
Certainly, a lot of athletes don't make much money
1315
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:39,160
from climbing anyway, and unfortunately, even less
1316
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,360
so in para climbing.
1317
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:45,440
So I guess, what do you do for work?
1318
01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:48,560
So yeah, we have a few full-time athletes
1319
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,840
in the para climbing community in the meantime.
1320
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:56,680
And I hope that they are getting more and more.
1321
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:02,320
With the focus and the exposure that we
1322
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,040
get through the Paralympics 28, this will,
1323
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:07,160
chances were increased.
1324
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:11,080
Now is the moment for people to start.
1325
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:17,600
And yeah, and some of you might also know my private projects,
1326
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,280
the Solar Bike Project, where I built my own vehicle
1327
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:24,200
that I used to get to the competitions this year.
1328
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:29,600
And yeah, I have a very well-balanced sponsor
1329
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,240
systems of my credit card, my other credit card,
1330
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,040
my paypal account, and my bank account.
1331
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,240
And I realized this year that it's not
1332
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:39,560
as balanced as I thought.
1333
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:41,920
OK.
1334
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:43,960
Well, getting back to your question, yes, I've
1335
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,840
got a job as freelance IT guy.
1336
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:52,920
I'm doing server administration, website, e-commerce systems.
1337
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:55,640
That's what my job looks like.
1338
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:05,080
And the climbing part is free time.
1339
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:11,960
But I'm in a situation that I can decide quite flexible
1340
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,000
on my free time projects.
1341
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,680
And as I said in the beginning, with my condition,
1342
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:19,800
I'm closing spondylitis.
1343
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,600
It's very important that I keep my flexibility,
1344
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:27,480
that I keep my level of activity.
1345
01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:30,400
So even if I want or not, I have to live
1346
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,760
a very active, athletic life.
1347
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:38,000
So even if I would not be paragliding one day anymore,
1348
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:42,240
on IFSC level, I will 100% continue climbing
1349
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:43,640
and do some other things.
1350
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:47,320
And I will always continue on some other projects.
1351
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,240
So I will not focus, for example, just on climbing.
1352
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,960
I would always go scuba diving.
1353
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:57,360
And if I now I discovered hand cycling for me,
1354
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:00,240
and I'm also doing other things, and I
1355
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:03,520
will continue that also because I know it's very important
1356
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:07,680
for my whole body to keep things balanced
1357
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,000
and not to focus too hard on one thing.
1358
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:14,280
If I just would, let's say, just focus on climbing,
1359
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,440
I would maybe get a bit better.
1360
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:22,880
But after that, it would go down because I would, so to say,
1361
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:24,320
lose a bit.
1362
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:28,680
It would be too specific in one direction,
1363
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:30,280
the whole training, et cetera.
1364
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:35,080
And I already feel it now as I've never hand
1365
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:36,840
cycled that much before.
1366
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,360
I now feel how my body changes.
1367
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,680
And my body reacts quite hard on changes.
1368
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:45,720
For example, I then start to get more muscle
1369
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:47,800
tonus in my shoulders, on my neck.
1370
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,800
And that will then lead to more pain there.
1371
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:52,760
And my body has to adapt slowly to that.
1372
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,760
So I should never train too much just on one thing
1373
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:59,680
because it will always have bad consequences for me.
1374
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,560
So I have to do some things, see how my body adapts,
1375
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,280
give him also some time, readjust a bit,
1376
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:10,480
and be quite careful with the level of intensity
1377
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:11,800
that I put on it.
1378
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:14,360
Going back to the solar hand bike,
1379
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:18,160
I figured that that is a very time-consuming project.
1380
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:21,360
And maybe you would have some kind of engineering background
1381
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,120
to work on it.
1382
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:27,800
How did you get the idea to work on this project?
1383
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,880
Since I was a kid, I was always playing around
1384
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:35,600
and with scale models, et cetera.
1385
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:41,760
That was my background, like cars and trains, et cetera.
1386
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:43,720
When I was a kid and I was learning
1387
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:48,400
how to solder cables, et cetera, and electricity and things,
1388
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,920
I always had a fascination for that.
1389
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,600
And I actually never lost that.
1390
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:55,960
So I always had projects.
1391
01:13:55,960 --> 01:14:01,280
Since I was in school, I, for example, developed in school,
1392
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:06,760
I developed a system that scale model cars, which
1393
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,880
were driving independently, recognized each other
1394
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,600
and reacted and adapted their speeds together, et cetera,
1395
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:18,080
and even went to science competitions with that,
1396
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:22,520
where kids could participate and even got to the highest
1397
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:24,800
level you can get in Germany with that.
1398
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,200
And also, when I was studying, I always
1399
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:35,600
had a little corner in my room where I had some things to like,
1400
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:37,520
had to just work on things.
1401
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:41,840
And I was always having projects, sometimes more,
1402
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:42,520
sometimes less.
1403
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,920
And when I moved to Spain, I had the vision
1404
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:52,320
of building something on my own to combine
1405
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:56,480
the power of solar, electric, with the things
1406
01:14:56,480 --> 01:14:58,680
that I have to get a vehicle where I can get
1407
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:06,240
the maximum distance with things that are accessible for me.
1408
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:08,160
And so it turned out that I ended
1409
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:12,960
with something like, which was based on e-bike technology,
1410
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,960
so assisted electric aid.
1411
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:20,240
And I combined that with solar to get the maximum distance
1412
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:22,280
and maximum independence.
1413
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:27,320
And I started this project actually,
1414
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:30,240
now it's even more than one and a half years ago.
1415
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:34,560
And I was working for it for many, many months in silence
1416
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:38,160
behind closed doors and told no one about it.
1417
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:40,640
And just very shortly before Innsbruck,
1418
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:44,440
I made it public that I'm going to go with it to Innsbruck,
1419
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:46,280
1,000 kilometers.
1420
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:50,640
I had the vision long, long time before in my mind,
1421
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:54,360
but I was working hard on it to get there.
1422
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:57,080
And there was moments where I was pretty sure,
1423
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,000
oh, this is not going to work out.
1424
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:02,760
And in the beginning, I was just, I mean, it's a prototype.
1425
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,800
I had no instructions and no things
1426
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:06,800
I could copy paste from.
1427
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:08,440
I just had an idea in my mind.
1428
01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:11,560
I had all my little toy engineering,
1429
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:18,040
playing background from my childhood, many as a child.
1430
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,600
And it's like, actually, I'm still doing the same,
1431
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,240
but just the scale change.
1432
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:26,160
Now I just, I don't let cars, little cars or trains,
1433
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:27,400
whatever drive around.
1434
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:30,840
Now I'm just sitting in my vehicles that I built
1435
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,960
and I'm driving with them.
1436
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,040
So I'm still doing the same, but just the scale and distance
1437
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:38,480
has changed.
1438
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:42,360
And I tested a lot on my Yorker here.
1439
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:46,160
So I did the round around the island twice.
1440
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:50,520
The short version was like 250 kilometers in two days.
1441
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:53,280
And the long one was then three days for 400 kilometers
1442
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,080
with a lot of mountains in between.
1443
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,880
So it was, I think, 4,000 meters of altitude
1444
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:02,720
to climb, 5,000 to the ground.
1445
01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:06,800
And the road to Innsbruck then was 1,000 kilometers.
1446
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:10,600
And I think at the end, it was more than 12,000 meters
1447
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:13,400
of altitude to climb up with a bike,
1448
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:15,880
because I had to cross the Alps.
1449
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:20,160
And yes, yeah, Innsbruck is in the middle of the mountains.
1450
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:22,000
If you see around the beautiful scenery
1451
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:25,200
around the credit center, you see the alpine background
1452
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:26,440
around there.
1453
01:17:26,440 --> 01:17:27,960
Those were basically the mountains
1454
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,920
I had to cycle over with my own bike.
1455
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:34,960
There's not a river going all the way from Spain to Innsbruck.
1456
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:36,840
I could just follow.
1457
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:38,400
No, no, no.
1458
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:43,320
And I just announced it.
1459
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:44,880
Actually, it was officially announced
1460
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:47,200
in the livestream of Salt Lake.
1461
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:48,240
And it was not planned.
1462
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:51,880
I just told Matt about the crazy idea.
1463
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:55,320
And I said, I think I'm going to make it public then soon.
1464
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:58,960
And he just decided to talk about it,
1465
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,360
to tell in public about it in the livestream.
1466
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:08,680
It was in May, it was in early May, it was early May, 2024,
1467
01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:09,800
exactly.
1468
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:11,960
And then I stayed even longer in the US.
1469
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:13,080
I came back from the US.
1470
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:16,400
And I just had two weeks in Spain to get the bike ready
1471
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:17,840
and to depart for Innsbruck.
1472
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,720
Yeah, I mean, you had to, because he
1473
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,560
mentioned it on the livestream.
1474
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:24,800
No, I also wanted to.
1475
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:26,920
The ferry was already booked, et cetera.
1476
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:29,240
So I'm sure if something would have gone wrong.
1477
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:31,520
And a lot of things went wrong along the way.
1478
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:33,280
Don't get me wrong, there was a big chance
1479
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,800
that I wouldn't make it.
1480
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:36,520
But I did it.
1481
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:40,080
I had a broken spoke in the front wheel.
1482
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:42,760
And it was seriously deforming.
1483
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,240
And I couldn't get it fixed on the way.
1484
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:48,640
I tried to add lots of technical issues on the way.
1485
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,960
But I had a big toolbox with me.
1486
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:55,600
And I could fix everything along the way that I made it there.
1487
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:59,080
And at the end, it took me seven days to Innsbruck
1488
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:00,360
for 1,000 kilometers.
1489
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:01,400
Not bad.
1490
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:06,560
Now, it's an average of 150 kilometers per day.
1491
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,400
But the longest day was even, say, far more.
1492
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:14,120
It was like 212 kilometers on a single day.
1493
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:18,120
And it was the last day, just following a river in downhill.
1494
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:20,720
What was the nicest part?
1495
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:21,840
The nicest part?
1496
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:23,520
Yeah.
1497
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:29,040
Oh, there were so many moments.
1498
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:33,080
But one, I think, was the first highlight
1499
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:38,640
was for me to be in Briehnsan with the bike.
1500
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:43,200
So the place where I had my first World Cup ever in 2017.
1501
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,600
And I was many times in Briehnsan by car
1502
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:48,120
before for the World Cups there.
1503
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,680
And then when I was there, I crossed the village
1504
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:51,680
in the very morning.
1505
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:57,320
I even just literally stopped by at the new competition wall.
1506
01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:59,480
And that was at 6 in the morning,
1507
01:19:59,480 --> 01:20:03,480
because then I went over the Maloja Pass over to Italy.
1508
01:20:03,480 --> 01:20:06,840
And that's a very steep road where you have to climb.
1509
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:11,600
And it's the only road which exists in between France
1510
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:13,920
and Italy in that part of the Alps.
1511
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:16,200
And so there's normally heavy traffic.
1512
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:19,960
And very often, I tried to avoid heavy traffic
1513
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:25,840
by going in early hours, which was a really, really good plan.
1514
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:30,120
And at that day, I even went further to Turin,
1515
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:32,600
and I stopped by the IFSC office.
1516
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:37,240
And that was just I had different versions of routes
1517
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:37,880
I want to go.
1518
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,120
And then I decided, OK, I'm going to take the middle route,
1519
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:42,040
not following the Mediterranean Sea,
1520
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:46,280
and not going through too much through Switzerland.
1521
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:51,600
So I decided to take the middle way right through France,
1522
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:52,200
then Italy.
1523
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:54,800
And so I said, like, just as a joke, like, hey,
1524
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:56,560
if I'm in Turin, for sure I'm going
1525
01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:01,000
to stop by at the IFSC office and say hello.
1526
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:04,760
And it's like, I mean, if Marco Scolaris is there,
1527
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:08,080
he can take a look at the bike and make a picture or whatever
1528
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:09,400
if he wants to.
1529
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,040
And at that time, I didn't even know, will he be there,
1530
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:13,280
or will the others be there?
1531
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,640
And is he actually interested in the project or not?
1532
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:19,280
I mean, it's cycling.
1533
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,560
It's not climbing, right?
1534
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:23,280
At the end, it turned out the IFSC
1535
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:28,200
shared all of my stories for like nine days, I think.
1536
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:31,040
And I was really wondering, like, guys, are you serious?
1537
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,440
Because it's like, this is cycling content.
1538
01:21:33,440 --> 01:21:35,280
Yes, I'm going to climbing contitution,
1539
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,440
but this is not climbing, right?
1540
01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:39,280
It's a different sport.
1541
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:40,560
And it was not them to do it.
1542
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:43,200
They just decided, like, hey, we're going to capture it.
1543
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:47,040
And yeah, and Marco Scolaris even wanted to ride the bike.
1544
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:48,240
So he was not there.
1545
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,120
He was there, and he's like, I can also drive.
1546
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:56,160
And then he was driving on the sidewalk for 20 meters.
1547
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,720
That was a really unexpected highlight.
1548
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:02,480
And then one of the biggest challenges,
1549
01:22:02,480 --> 01:22:06,400
and I think it was a day I will never forget,
1550
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:09,880
because it was the day where the press release was published
1551
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:14,600
that LA 28 decided to include power
1552
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:16,680
climbing for the Paralympics.
1553
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:20,280
And that was the day where I was driving up the Maloja Pass
1554
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:24,720
from Italy to Switzerland, which means you have to climb up
1555
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,480
1,600 meters of altitude.
1556
01:22:28,480 --> 01:22:33,440
You start at 200 meters above sea level,
1557
01:22:33,440 --> 01:22:35,240
and it's like 30 degrees.
1558
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:38,240
And then you go up over 40 kilometers,
1559
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:41,920
and the first 30 kilometers are just warm up.
1560
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:44,600
And then it really kicks in at the last 10 kilometers
1561
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:49,760
with an inclination of up to 18%, which is a lot.
1562
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,680
I just can't go at that.
1563
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:55,960
And that ratio can only go at like 2 kilometers per hour.
1564
01:22:55,960 --> 01:23:00,440
So you just see line by line, and you can count them.
1565
01:23:00,440 --> 01:23:02,160
And it takes forever.
1566
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:04,400
Slower than walking.
1567
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:06,280
Yes, exactly.
1568
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:07,640
It's slower than walking.
1569
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:10,760
And in control, overheating in the middle of the climate,
1570
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:14,800
you have to stop at this tiny corner and cars and trucks
1571
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:16,120
passing by, et cetera.
1572
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:20,160
And Europe roads are not as wide as they are in the US,
1573
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:20,840
by the way.
1574
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:23,680
It just fits one car in, and that's it.
1575
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:24,240
Boom.
1576
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:29,040
There's not half a meter left and right, and that's it.
1577
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:33,200
And when I was up there then, it was an incredible moment.
1578
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:37,000
And the temperature was just barely above freezing.
1579
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:38,240
And then it started to rain.
1580
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:39,960
Oh my gosh.
1581
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:40,760
Yeah.
1582
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:43,640
And then I was searching for the next hotel,
1583
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:45,400
and then being in a hotel.
1584
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:48,040
And then it was published with Paralympics.
1585
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:52,040
And that was the day for me where I will never forget,
1586
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:56,720
because from my feeling, I got two gold medals on that day.
1587
01:23:56,720 --> 01:24:01,360
First for, so to say, the Olympic being accepted medal
1588
01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:04,440
for working so hard on that project.
1589
01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:08,680
And so to say, reaching that, and then also challenging
1590
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:11,200
the challenge, the steepest thing I've ever
1591
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:16,160
done with my bike, just getting that done on the same day.
1592
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:19,840
That was an incredible moment.
1593
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:24,440
And after that, after Innsbruck, I continued to Germany
1594
01:24:24,440 --> 01:24:29,560
to my parents' home, 600 kilometers more to go.
1595
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:33,600
And when I left the Alps, there was another,
1596
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,120
it's the so-called Scharnpass Road.
1597
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:41,280
It's also a road which has huge traffic, just two lanes,
1598
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:42,960
one per direction.
1599
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:44,800
And everyone has to go on that road.
1600
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:48,200
And during the day, there's always traffic jams.
1601
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:50,320
So if you want to go there by bike,
1602
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:58,120
this is actually a suicide project, I would say.
1603
01:24:58,120 --> 01:25:04,140
So I decided to go to cycle over the Scharnpass by night.
1604
01:25:04,140 --> 01:25:07,680
And so I started at 10 in the evening
1605
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:11,280
and finished at 2 with an empty battery
1606
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,200
right at the German border.
1607
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:17,560
And then I was sleeping in my hammock below the solar roof
1608
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:18,760
for the first time.
1609
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:22,680
Never tested it before, and it was a fantastic experience.
1610
01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:28,480
And now on my way back to Spain, I know the weak points.
1611
01:25:28,480 --> 01:25:30,320
I collected a lot of data.
1612
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:33,720
I also published all the data of how much solar
1613
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,680
power did I consume, how much did I charge from the grid,
1614
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:38,680
and how was the efficiency, et cetera,
1615
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:42,840
how was the daily distance, the average speed, the altitude
1616
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:43,360
climb.
1617
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:45,320
And I got some really interesting insights
1618
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:46,840
from all of that data.
1619
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:50,400
So I now have to work on an improved level.
1620
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:55,620
And I'm trying to get, I will have an improved bike
1621
01:25:55,620 --> 01:25:57,680
waiting for the way back to Spain.
1622
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:02,600
So I intend to go with the bike to Bilal.
1623
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:08,420
And I'm pretty sure I will get new records and even bigger
1624
01:26:08,420 --> 01:26:10,040
distances with the bike.
1625
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,120
And yeah, we'll see.
1626
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:14,920
I mean, I also learned along the way
1627
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,200
that I'm not the only solar biker out there.
1628
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,140
In the very beginning, I thought I'm the first one with the idea.
1629
01:26:20,140 --> 01:26:23,080
But along the way, I discovered that actually not new.
1630
01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:24,960
And there is an organization out there,
1631
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:26,820
which is called the SunTrip, which
1632
01:26:26,820 --> 01:26:31,280
is doing solar races things 2013.
1633
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:35,080
And they do way more impressive distance than I do.
1634
01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:38,600
So hand bikes or just regular bikes?
1635
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,760
Well, a few hand bike, as I just know of one case,
1636
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:43,280
they are all pedaling a leg.
1637
01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:45,320
So that's also a completely different level
1638
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:47,680
of what you can do there.
1639
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:51,280
And they also have recumbent bikes.
1640
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:52,360
They have velvo builds.
1641
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:58,560
So that's completely aerodynamic, packed
1642
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,400
recumbent bikes that they have, like it's
1643
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:02,920
the most efficient machine that you
1644
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:07,800
can have for converting human into a movement energy.
1645
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:09,920
And combine that with solar, and you
1646
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:14,280
get the most incredible, let's say, numbers.
1647
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,280
And you can get, so the record for that is at the moment
1648
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:22,760
on 475 kilometers on a single day.
1649
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:25,120
Yeah, imagine that.
1650
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:28,160
So in comparison to that, my 212 looks
1651
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:30,560
like I would say tiny.
1652
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:32,120
I guess it's like half.
1653
01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:36,120
But do you have the data published
1654
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:38,320
anywhere of your journey?
1655
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:39,520
Yes.
1656
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:41,160
Yeah, I published the data.
1657
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:44,760
And I'm going to publish even more data and also
1658
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:45,420
my improvements.
1659
01:27:45,420 --> 01:27:49,280
And I will evaluate every improvement I do
1660
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:53,840
and decide on, I will make it public.
1661
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:54,760
And I've filmed a lot.
1662
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,720
I will also edit the video about the journey
1663
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:01,960
et cetera, and cover more material in the future.
1664
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:03,640
And we'll see what goes.
1665
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:05,800
It's time consuming.
1666
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:07,080
But I just love it.
1667
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:11,800
It's like you cannot describe the feeling of you
1668
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:16,360
build something which completely on your own, which
1669
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:17,880
is way more than a bike.
1670
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:18,920
And it's less than a car.
1671
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:24,360
And it drives the distances that you could never think of before.
1672
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:26,480
And I did something which is completely impossible
1673
01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:28,320
with a normal bike.
1674
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:30,680
And I just did it with a solar electric hand
1675
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:34,000
bike and a lot of luggage.
1676
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:37,240
Yeah, I'll link the videos that you had sent me
1677
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:39,760
as well in the description.
1678
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:41,840
Yes, and more to come soon there.
1679
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:46,600
So if I find the time aside my work and the ongoing project
1680
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:52,640
and climbing and everything else, I would need a 48 hours
1681
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:53,920
day actually.
1682
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:55,880
Yeah, that's a lot.
1683
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,720
But we'll keep an eye out.
1684
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:01,800
So yeah, for the last question, we'll
1685
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:03,720
bring it back to climbing.
1686
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:07,600
You mentioned that you actually mostly prefer outdoor climbing
1687
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,640
and do a lot more of that.
1688
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,040
What's been your proudest outdoor achievement
1689
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:13,280
in your life?
1690
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,440
Well, that's a tough question.
1691
01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:24,760
My very first first ascent.
1692
01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:26,840
All right.
1693
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:28,240
Where was it?
1694
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:33,120
And off with chimney.
1695
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:38,960
I don't like that, but OK.
1696
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:40,160
It was a scary thing.
1697
01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:40,840
I saw the line.
1698
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:43,400
I saw like, I want to do this.
1699
01:29:46,480 --> 01:29:47,480
How is the process?
1700
01:29:47,480 --> 01:29:51,600
And I had people who taught me on that
1701
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:55,000
and showed me how to place bolts, et cetera.
1702
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,960
And that's how I started into that.
1703
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:01,960
And this is generally doing first ascent, I would say,
1704
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:09,400
will always stay something extraordinary.
1705
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:13,760
And just doing a hard project, for example.
1706
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:15,960
So yes, I also think about my hardest routes
1707
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:18,400
that I ever climbed, but I think the first ascent
1708
01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:21,880
that I did there, those are all special memories
1709
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:23,880
because it's a process.
1710
01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:26,600
You go somewhere, you see a line, you think about it,
1711
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,640
you clean it, and then you work on it,
1712
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:31,400
and you don't know, is it possible,
1713
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:34,480
or isn't it possible, whatever.
1714
01:30:34,480 --> 01:30:39,880
And then hopefully there's a moment where you can climb it.
1715
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:43,040
And as I was saying, which is like bouldering
1716
01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:49,800
is for your body, sport climbing is for your brain,
1717
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:52,080
and multi-pitch is for your soul.
1718
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:54,680
What was the first, like, did you name it?
1719
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:57,200
Or is it like, can you find it somewhere?
1720
01:30:57,200 --> 01:30:57,960
Oh, yes.
1721
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:00,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's named, it's a German name.
1722
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:04,520
It's named Friedhofs Kamin.
1723
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:08,080
In English, that's a graveyard chimney.
1724
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:10,080
And it's named, it's always, you have to know,
1725
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:12,920
a name of a route always has to have connection
1726
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:15,680
to the route.
1727
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:19,560
And in this specific section, it's in Germany,
1728
01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:30,400
and there were old queries where they cut off basalt columns
1729
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:32,600
for construction purpose.
1730
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:36,480
And so that they left big holes in the ground.
1731
01:31:36,480 --> 01:31:40,120
And on those walls, there's climbing today.
1732
01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:45,080
And in those holes in the past, also people dumped that trash.
1733
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:46,880
There was one, yeah.
1734
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:51,520
And there was one corner where the, I don't know how the word,
1735
01:31:51,520 --> 01:32:00,280
there was the person who builds the graveyard blocks of where
1736
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:04,680
you inscribe the name, et cetera, on rock.
1737
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:07,440
I don't know what it's called, but yeah.
1738
01:32:07,440 --> 01:32:09,360
Yeah, but someone is doing that, right?
1739
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:13,560
And sometimes they engrave things in the wrong way,
1740
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:15,840
or something breaks, whatever.
1741
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:24,240
And they put this trash also in those holes.
1742
01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:28,960
And so below this chimney, I was doing my first ascent in,
1743
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:32,240
it was full of graveyard blocks where I just inscribed,
1744
01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:35,080
oh, this was this name lived from, whatever.
1745
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:37,000
And you were standing on those blocks
1746
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:39,400
and climbing in the chimney down above.
1747
01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:41,120
That's where the name is coming from.
1748
01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:43,400
So I know you're not a story.
1749
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:44,040
Awesome.
1750
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:45,400
OK, good to know.
1751
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:52,160
And I guess that's a good place to end it,
1752
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:55,360
climbing on graveyard blocks.
1753
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:58,360
Yeah, that's all the questions I had.
1754
01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:00,480
I guess, was there anything else you
1755
01:33:00,480 --> 01:33:05,960
wanted to have a last word on, if not the graveyard blocks?
1756
01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:10,160
That's where power climbing should not end, right?
1757
01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:11,080
Yeah.
1758
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:14,320
Yeah, it's a bit dark.
1759
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:20,160
Yeah, I'm really proud of the whole community.
1760
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:22,480
And I want to thank everyone who was involved
1761
01:33:22,480 --> 01:33:24,960
in the whole process until now.
1762
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:29,760
And as I said before, my life always
1763
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:32,840
puts me in a situation or gives me a presence where
1764
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:35,200
I would say the year before, it's never
1765
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:39,480
going to happen, or I don't even dare to dream of that.
1766
01:33:39,480 --> 01:33:42,680
And I think this time now is the beginning of something
1767
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:47,960
completely new for the sport itself.
1768
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:50,720
And it will change the sport.
1769
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:54,600
And I expect there will be a big focus on power climbing,
1770
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:58,520
a focus which has never been seen before,
1771
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:02,880
because we are really unknown.
1772
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:09,880
Power climbing is not that known in the whole power sport
1773
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:10,400
family.
1774
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:12,800
And I think many sports didn't have it on their list,
1775
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:16,720
that power climbing actually did big steps in the last years.
1776
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:21,560
And so we will be on the biggest stage of the sport,
1777
01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:23,920
of sports, of power sports, which is there in the world.
1778
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:26,000
And I'm proud that we will get the chance
1779
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:28,880
and show that there's almost no disability which
1780
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:30,960
can stop you from climbing.
1781
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:35,920
And just show that climbing is there for almost everyone.
1782
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:39,240
And we love climbing.
1783
01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:42,680
And I hope that we can just share it with others
1784
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:44,760
and spread the word of power climbing.
1785
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:48,720
All right, that's a better statement to end on.
1786
01:34:48,720 --> 01:34:52,800
So yeah, for people who want to follow your journey
1787
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:56,800
with the solar hand bike and climbing in general,
1788
01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:58,200
where can they find you?
1789
01:34:58,200 --> 01:34:59,400
Yeah, I'm on social media.
1790
01:34:59,400 --> 01:35:01,760
You can just search my name.
1791
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:07,600
And also on YouTube, I hope I find a time to do more there.
1792
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:13,040
And yeah, that's why I'm going to document
1793
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:14,200
more things from my life.
1794
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:17,760
I also do conferences so far just in German.
1795
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:20,920
They're also on YouTube in full versions.
1796
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:24,560
I wrote a book also in German.
1797
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:28,560
So yeah, that's also part of me.
1798
01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:32,560
But I don't do these things just for my own.
1799
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:39,120
I also share my experience, share my knowledge.
1800
01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:42,800
And in order to, I always hope I can inspire others.
1801
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:45,960
Because I also got lots of inspiration from others.
1802
01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:51,080
And I think humanity wouldn't be where it's now
1803
01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:54,000
if we wouldn't share things.
1804
01:35:54,000 --> 01:36:00,360
Otherwise, we would still sit somewhere in a cave
1805
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:03,680
and hide the fire from others that they don't see it.
1806
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:07,720
And I think it's very important that, yeah, share things,
1807
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:10,160
share experiences, share ideas.
1808
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:11,240
And that's what I do.
1809
01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:13,240
I share the things that I experience in my life
1810
01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:15,880
because I think it can inspire others to achieve bigger,
1811
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:18,040
to achieve greater things.
1812
01:36:18,040 --> 01:36:19,240
That's what I do.
1813
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:23,040
And did you mention the name of your, or like, Instagram?
1814
01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:25,160
Or your YouTube?
1815
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:29,520
Well, yeah, it's Sebastian Depke, basically, to go.
1816
01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:32,120
It just, if you search my name, Sebastian Depke,
1817
01:36:32,120 --> 01:36:35,560
you will find me on the different platforms.
1818
01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:37,800
I'll leave the links in the description as well.
1819
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:39,360
OK, well, thank you for joining me.
1820
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:41,320
And it was amazing to talk to you.
1821
01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:42,400
Thank you.
1822
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,680
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.
1823
01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:48,320
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.
1824
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:51,520
Otherwise, you are a super fake climber.
1825
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,720
If you're listening on a podcasting platform,
1826
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:56,000
I'd appreciate if you rated it five stars
1827
01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:57,880
and you can continue the discussion
1828
01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:00,920
on the free competition climbing Discord linked
1829
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:02,280
in the description.
1830
01:37:02,280 --> 01:37:22,640
Thanks again for listening.
