27: Jesse Grupper, Team USA Olympian
Jesse is a boulder + lead climber (mostly lead climber) from the USA who is fresh from the Olympics! In this episode, he walks us through his entire Olympics experience, from training through his first ever finger injury, to balancing training with his engineering job, to meeting other athletes in the Olympic village.
Timestamps
Timestamps of discussion topics
0:00 - Post-Olympics travels
7:04 - Climbing and competing start
9:41 - Youth training + competition
12:39 - Wanting to work as an engineer
17:55 - Only getting 1 shot on a World Cup lead route
20:52 - Slipping on the Olympics semis lead route
23:12 - Boulder mindset as a lead climber
26:11 - Olympics Combined format strategy
29:42 - Finger injury leading up to the Olympics
35:34 - Olympics training with a hurt finger
42:41 - Olympics village experience - feeling like a real athlete
47:17 - Dealing with post-Olympic blues
51:22 - Goals post-Olympics
52:55 - LA 2028 plans
58:52 - Protect our Winters work
1:04:35 - Discord Q: Why does it seem like you're friends with every climber on the circuit?! (And a discussion on competitiveness)
1:10:03 - Discord Q: Professional and climbing career intersection?
1:12:35 - Final thoughts: Voting and memes, where to find Jesse
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I think the Olympic blues, which is what I've been calling them, definitely hit pretty hard.
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And I feel like I really put everything I had into that one experience.
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And having it not go the way I wanted it to, both because of injury and maybe some expectations,
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made it just hurt that much more.
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I kind of waffled a lot in the rope round.
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I came up with a couple of different solutions and just didn't really fully commit to the
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move at hand.
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I mean, always going to look back on riding a boat with LeBron, I guess.
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It's time that climbing is treated like a real sport and this is the trajectory of it.
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So let's embrace it.
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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.
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I'm your host Jinni and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today, Jesse Grupper.
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Jesse used to be a lead specialist, but he recently came back from Paris where he was
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representing Team USA in the Olympics boulder and lead combined format.
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In this episode, he walks us through his entire Olympics experience from training through
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his first ever finger injury to balancing training with his engineering job to meeting
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other athletes at the Olympic Village.
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We'll also learn about some of his future climbing goals and volunteer work.
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I hope you enjoy this episode with Jesse.
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Okay, so you are back in Salt Lake, right?
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Yeah, I am pretty excited about it.
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I feel like I've been on the roads, honestly, since the Olympics, just doing a lot of smaller
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trips either to family or outdoors.
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And yeah, I'm excited to be sleeping in a bed for more than like five days at a time.
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So yeah, should be a good time.
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Is Salt Lake like your actual base now?
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Pretty much.
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Yeah, I'm fairly nomadic, I would say, like for a lot of the year.
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But as far as like what I consider home to be right now, I would call it Salt Lake.
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Very nice.
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So you like actually have like a room and a bed and like.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I feel fortunate to be staying with Karakandi as well.
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He's a good friend of mine.
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And yeah, so it's been a really nice house vibe in Salt Lake.
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And yeah, I've been enjoying the scenes.
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And I honestly, this past year, I've not really climbed outside or explored the area because
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I've mostly been stuck in a gym training.
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So I'm really excited to be getting outside this season and getting to actually explore
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Salt Lake for what it has besides the gyms.
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Yeah, it's fun that you are staying with Kyra, I think.
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Just a bunch of climbers together.
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Yeah, yeah, for sure.
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I mean, there are a lot of climbers now in Salt Lake.
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Like I feel like every year I'm like, wow, this person that I knew in like youth series
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is like here too.
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And I feel like a lot of people are like moving out here and it's becoming a really big scene,
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which you know, I like in some ways, don't like in other ways.
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But we can get into that later for sure.
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Yeah, seems like the place to be.
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How was your break after the Olympics?
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Did you do anything memorable?
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Yeah, so right after I was fortunate to have a day or two in Paris with like my family.
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And then I went to Magicwood with my sister and partner.
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And yeah, it was it was a ton of fun to be out there.
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I think at the same time, like, it was definitely a different experience than I was expecting.
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I think like the Olympic blues, which is what I've been calling them definitely hit pretty
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hard.
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I think I've just had this one goal for so long, you know, both in life and then also
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once I qualified, it was about like nine months away.
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And I feel like I really put everything I had into that one experience and having it
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not go the way I wanted to, both because of like injury and maybe some expectations made
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it just hurt that much more.
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So I think coming into Magicwood, even though it was supposed to be like, oh, this is going
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to be a fun trip in the forest, I think I definitely still had a lot of that weight
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to sort of unpack off my shoulders.
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So it wasn't all fun and games, but it was a beautiful place.
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And yeah, I wouldn't have traded it for any other experience.
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Yeah.
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And it will definitely get into the Olympics a little bit later.
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How long of a break did you end up taking before you started like climbing indoors again
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or like doing training?
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So I guess I took about seven days, like a week in Magicwood.
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And then I went to kind of like an island and did like kind of like a beach vacation,
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which I haven't done in almost my entire life.
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It was the first time.
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Yeah, like I guess I always like want to have like climbing nearby or if I like go on vacation,
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like I'm usually like hiking and being like pretty active.
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So it was definitely a different experience, but I definitely enjoyed it and it was a lot
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of fun.
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So we got like some outdoor time too.
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But wait, like even as a kid, you never just like went to the beach just to go to the beach.
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We would have like day trips to the beach, but I feel like like a week, week long trip,
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like no, not really.
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No, I guess I haven't either.
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I mean, a week is a pretty long time to spend just at a beach, just beach.
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Yeah.
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Well, I guess we also like hiked and yeah, I did some other stuff, but it was mainly
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there for like water time for sure.
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Which is good to do something different.
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Maybe take like, maybe take a trip to like a resort or something like that.
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Have you ever done that?
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No, no.
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Yeah, that always has intimidated me.
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Intimidated you?
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Yeah, I guess like I'm just scared that I'm not going to be able to leave and I'm going
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to be like stuck in this resort that I don't like, you know, like I feel like I like having
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a little bit of a independence and a vacation.
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Okay.
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Yeah, I have never done like a resort either, but it doesn't intimidate me.
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I just, I really wish I could.
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I just haven't been able to.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I mean that too.
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Like, I don't know.
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I feel like I don't want to, I'd rather save the money to like spend it on a climbing
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trip or something similar.
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Yeah, fair.
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I really desire like the pampering, but then when I think about it, I'm like, maybe I
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do want to have some more fun on this trip.
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I don't know yet.
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Yeah, yeah.
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What I did actually like two days after the games, I was like climbing back in a gym.
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I feel like climbing for me is definitely healing in a lot of ways.
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So I feel like it's like an important part of processing feelings and understanding myself.
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So I feel like it was important for me to like get back in there even if it wasn't
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the most fun or rewarding session.
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Was that in Paris?
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It was, yeah.
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Heard great things about the gyms there.
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Yeah, it's crazy for sure.
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They definitely have like some wild setting.
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You're not now not allowed to use like loose chalk though.
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So you're supposed to only use like, yeah, like liquid chalk, which is definitely an
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interesting change.
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And I feel like that's an adjustment.
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But apart from that, like it's awesome.
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Awesome.
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Well, let's get right into, I guess, learning about your climbing journey.
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For those who don't know, how did you get into climbing and then eventually competing?
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So I started climbing when I was pretty young.
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I was dragged to the gym with my sister and mom.
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My sister was taking classes at our local gym, New Jersey Rock Gym, and I couldn't
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just like sit on a couch.
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I had like so much energy.
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I was like running around the gym and my mom, as a way of coping with that, put me into
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climbing lesson classes.
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And yeah, even in climbing classes, you know, I don't know how familiar people are with
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that kind of setup.
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But a lot of the time, four of you are like sitting down and one person is like climbing.
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And I just like couldn't sit still.
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I felt like I was either bored or had to like run around.
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So I was constantly getting in trouble.
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And I think that the key for me was having someone who like was able to put that energy
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of like restlessness and wanting to just like constantly move into pushing me and climbing.
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So like recognizing that and being able to use it towards something positive, like progressing
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in the sport, really helped me find my focus as a young, oblivious, crazy kid.
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And yeah, I haven't looked back since then.
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And maybe I still have some of those characteristics as well.
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Nice.
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And then after like how long after do you start entering in competitions?
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Yeah, so I started competing when I was about nine years old.
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And I don't know, I didn't know what the heck I was doing.
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Like I was just like, oh, like, cool.
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Like I get to do more new climbs.
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And I think that the friends that I met along the way really inspired me and got me excited
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to keep pushing myself.
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And then I think there was definitely an age, maybe like around like 12 or 13, where I was
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like, oh, this means something to me.
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This is really important.
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And I think losing some of that obliviousness made me rethink and have a lot more pressure
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on myself.
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And I had to re-figure out what I wanted out of climbing around that age.
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Wow, trying to figure out what you want out of climbing at 12 years old sounds kind of
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wild.
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Does your sister still climb?
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She does.
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Yeah, she's actually in Australia now.
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So she's not doing as many competitions, but still climbs outside.
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And yeah, like for instance, we went on a trip to Magicwood.
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So I think it's a really special bond that we have that we're able to push each other
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and be able to do what we love together.
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Yeah, that's super nice.
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Yeah, so you mentioned that at 12, you felt the pressure to, I guess, decide your life
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path.
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What was the outcome of that?
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Did you decide then and there that this is what you were going to do?
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Yeah, so my coach had left our team and I really respected and admired her philosophy
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and process towards climbing.
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So I ended up deciding that I would fully train alone.
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And of course, I had friends at the gym who I climbed with, but my coach sent me workouts
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starting around 12 years old.
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And that's kind of how I feel like I learned to be dedicated and focused in climbing.
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She would send me workouts, I would do them, I would tell her how they went.
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And that was kind of the process that I built up over time with her.
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And I think gaining that kind of independence of understanding that the work that I'm putting
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in, it's up to me to get these workouts and find this fitness on the wall, meant that
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I really saw that process of hard work leads to better results.
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And I think that as a result, I think that I've carried that with me for a really long
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time.
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I'm not recommending that people stop training at their gym facilities or their youth teams
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just because it worked out for me.
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But I do think that I found someone who I really enjoyed training with and I would maybe
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see her once a month or so or at competitions.
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And it just worked really well for me and it helped me find a good balance of pushing
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myself in the sport while also finding my love and joy in it as well.
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And so then I guess getting into your IFSC competition history, when was your first comp
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there?
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Did you do the youth circuit?
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Yeah, so I did do the youth circuit.
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In 2012 was my first youth world championship and it went pretty bad, I would say.
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But I think that really opened up my eyes to the level that was out there.
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And I think that for me, it's really hard to push yourself when you don't have a good
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image of what others are capable of.
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So I think coming back from that competition, I was incredibly motivated and I really wanted
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one more shot at that level of competition.
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I didn't really think that I'd make it as a climber or anything like that, but I just
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really loved the process of getting to see this futuristic level and then getting to
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work on building myself up to try to compete at that level.
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And I think, of course, competition, you are doing some comparison, but really it was about
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how far I could go and how far I could push myself that I tried to focus on more than
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anything.
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You also took a break in 2019.
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Was that for work?
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Yeah.
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So I guess maybe to back up a little bit, I had done my first season of IFC World Cups
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in 2019 and I think that I really loved it.
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I also think that I had spent four years studying mechanical engineering and I think that I
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was curious about that passion being pushed forward, what that would look like.
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So I think that I had had this experience in climbing where I was like, I love this,
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I think it's really cool, but I also want to understand what the engineering world could
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look like.
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So I took a, I guess I would call it a break, but really it was pushing my curiosity with
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an engineering.
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So I think I was still climbing throughout that time, still pushing myself in various
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ways getting outside.
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But I think for me, getting to see what engineering could provide for others and how it would
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make me feel was really important to me.
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And so I took about two, two and a half years to work in a mechanical engineering lab and
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I'm actually still working in that same lab part time today, but it meant that I could
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really see that path through, see what it looked like.
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And then two years later down the line, I was like, well, World Cups were pretty sick
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and climbing outside is really cool and I wonder if I can, maybe I can give one last
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chance to this dream that I've had since I was little and not fully let that up while
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I could still choose what I could do and didn't just age with climbing naturally.
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Well glad you made that decision.
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Yeah, so like quick detour to just talk about your work a little bit.
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I think this was something people were really interested in in terms of how you balance
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employment and training and climbing and competing.
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So I guess in that time after 2019, were you like working full time and still training
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or did you just like completely give up your climbing goals at that time?
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Yeah, I never gave up climbing.
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I think that I just became really regimented and efficient with the timing.
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That was something that I feel like throughout college and before in high school, like I
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always was sort of like on a schedule and I found that I became more efficient in the
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gym when I had less time because I had school or you know, various like clubs and activities
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to do.
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I like my work life balance was a little crazy for sure.
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Like I would work 9 to 5.36 whatever and then go straight to a gym for maybe three, three
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and a half hours and then go home, have dinner, go to bed and then sort of repeat.
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And I think that I loved it, like I think I felt like I was really living like a fulfilled
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life.
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I think that it definitely didn't mean that I could be at the top of my game in climbing.
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But as I pictured what just climbing would look like, I think that I missed some of that.
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Well one, like I think I'm really passionate about the work that I was doing.
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I think that it's meaningful to me to work for something beyond just myself, which I
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feel like a lot of the time is what I sort of view my climbing as.
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But in addition, I think that you know, I can't climb every day or else my fingers would
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fall off and all my skin would be gone.
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So I think that having rest days and this is especially true honestly when I'm in competition
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mode, I have to have more rest and rather than just sit and think about climbing, sitting
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and thinking about like engineering challenges or ways that I could help other people is
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important to me and helps me feel like if I'm not doing my best in climbing, at least
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there's something else that I provide to the world.
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So nowadays you said you're working part time and I guess like remote?
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Yeah, exactly.
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Yeah, for the same lab.
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So then how does your training fit into that now?
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Are you still, do you like train every day?
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What's your schedule look like there?
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Yeah, so training is a little different now, which I guess we can get into in a little
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bit because I still have a hurt finger.
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So I'm trying not to put the pedal to the metal, but basically like on rest days will
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be like work days.
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So I'll have more of a focus on catching up on engineering work.
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It's a little bit more loose about the schedule that I have.
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Having like weekly meetings is a part of it.
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Basically, I'll go like two days on one day off, kind of repeating indefinitely and on
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the rest days will be like the main work days and maybe I'll answer like emails or do some
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small jobs after a climbing session as well.
283
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,320
Okay, good to hear how you balance it.
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I do want to, it's been a while since I've interviewed like a lead specialist.
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I just wanted to get some new competition climbing lead questions out there if that
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works for you.
287
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Yeah, for sure.
288
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Let's do it.
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Yeah, so as I guess sort of a lead specialist, how often do you get stressed that you only
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get like one shot in lead?
291
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Or do you like train to make no mistakes somehow?
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Whoa, that's a really good question.
293
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I think for me, I don't really think about, I think it's okay to make mistakes and it's
294
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okay to like not be at your best.
295
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And I think that that's the only way that you will be at your best if that makes sense.
296
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I think that like from the outside, it definitely looks like, wow, you have like one chance
297
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that's like so intimidating.
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And I think it can be and I think that's gotten under my skin plenty of times.
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But I think the more time that I focus on just the climbing and not how stressful it
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is that, you know, if I fall, that's it.
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The better it turns out for me.
302
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And I think like for a qualifiers, it's, you know, you have two routes.
303
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So like I always think like, okay, like the next one can go better if this one is completely
304
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bad.
305
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But yeah, definitely semis and finals can be stressful.
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And I've, you know, had my fair share of poor moments in both rounds.
307
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But at the end of the day, like, you know, one round doesn't define who you are as a
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climber.
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And I think that just continually building experience over time helps you be the best
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climber that you can be and build that confidence on that stage.
311
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,040
Okay, interesting.
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Yeah, I've, I've always been curious because, I mean, I'm mainly just boulder, but I feel
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like if I was on a lead route, like a semis or finals lead route, and it was like my one
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shot and then I slipped early, that would be, it'd just be such a bummer.
315
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Like you didn't get to show what you're capable of.
316
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Yeah, for sure.
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I mean, but I think that's like the cool part about having most World Cups, like, you know,
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if you make a mistake in one, like you have another one like the next week or two.
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But you know, I think it is something that is really hard about the sport and something
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that is unforgiving about it.
321
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But also that's something that I like love about it as well, that it makes it more exciting
322
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to me.
323
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It makes it feel more freeing in some ways too, because I feel like when I'm on the wall,
324
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this is like, yeah, the only thing that matters.
325
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And once I come off the wall, either at the top or lower down, that's it, like the competition's
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over and I don't need to think about it, or I can think about it as much as I want to.
327
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,800
So, you know, and I've definitely had both of those experiences where a comp will like
328
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:41,960
haunt me for a while or I'll just move on and go to the next one and just be like, okay,
329
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that was, you know, not the experience I was hoping for, but remember all these times that
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I've done well in competition and let's use that as motivation and confidence into this
331
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next round.
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Do you remember like the last time you slipped really early in a round or like made a big
333
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:00,760
mistake?
334
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,000
I mean, I would say the Olympics is kind of that.
335
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,360
I kind of like waffled a lot in like the rope round.
336
00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:13,800
I came up with a couple of different solutions and just didn't really like fully commit to
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the move at hand.
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00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:20,920
In part, maybe it was a little bit like finger related in retrospect, but really I think
339
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:27,560
that I just wasn't confident in my sequence on the wall and that cost me.
340
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:34,160
My like foot did like slip off, but you know, I was definitely in control and just was thinking
341
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,720
about other things rather than the movement fully at hand.
342
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,200
Was it just like about, you said you were thinking about other things.
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00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:47,040
Was it just about the whole Olympic experience or what was on your mind?
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I think, well, for one, like I felt my finger, but I also tried to put like a high toe hook,
345
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which was like one of the intended ways of like doing the sequence.
346
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,120
It didn't feel right for me.
347
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:05,080
And then trying to switch to a new way of doing it, I kind of got nervous and was like,
348
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,520
oh, is this the right way? And I like really had a lot of like questioning in my mind,
349
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,200
which is exactly like, you know, the reason why they put moves up there like that is to
350
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,240
make you second guess yourself.
351
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,520
And I did just that.
352
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So I guess it's kind of just like about the confidence and just making a decision.
353
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,440
Yeah, for sure.
354
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:25,440
For sure.
355
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,760
Yeah, that's a lot of what lead comes down to because, you know, everyone in finals, I
356
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:36,040
would say, has the ability to, you know, climb 9A or like 9A plus and, you know, do the route
357
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,040
at hand.
358
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,160
But it's about whether you can put it all together in that one moment.
359
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:42,600
Okay.
360
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,880
And I also learned that in bouldering, semis is the hardest round.
361
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,200
Do you feel like it's similar for lead where the semis route is harder than like a finals
362
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,200
route?
363
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:53,200
It usually is.
364
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,840
Yeah, I think that in finals, they're looking for more tops and more people to get further
365
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:58,840
on it.
366
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,320
In semis, they're like, okay, whatever, we can like, you know, beat people down and make
367
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:04,920
it really hard.
368
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:06,920
And like that's okay.
369
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I think it makes semis like really exciting.
370
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And it also makes it a little bit more nerve wracking for the athletes as well.
371
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,300
So for the Olympics, you've been preparing your bouldering a lot.
372
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:23,520
At this point, after all the bouldering training, do you still feel nervous when you approach
373
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,280
like a dynamic boulder or like a slabby boulder?
374
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,920
I definitely feel nervous, but I think it's maybe not the same level of like nerves as
375
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,920
I would feel in lead, mainly because of what you mentioned before, where I know that if
376
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,580
I fall, I can try again.
377
00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:43,520
And I think that especially in this format where falls truthfully like don't really
378
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:49,000
matter, like they're minus 0.1 and in a 200 point round, it's like, you know, a drop
379
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,000
in the bucket.
380
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:56,320
So I feel like for me, it's really about just consistently trying a move, learning a move
381
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:02,600
and you know, figuring it out more so than being nervous that I'm like not doing the
382
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,160
movement at hand.
383
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:10,180
I definitely get like frustrated and annoyed at myself if I like haven't done certain moves
384
00:24:10,180 --> 00:24:11,800
after like a bouldering round.
385
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,440
But especially in that format, I feel like I'm not frustrated about like falling more
386
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:23,520
or I'm not frustrated about just having a lack of understanding of a movement from the
387
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,120
first time that I try it, as long as I can just try to do better.
388
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:34,960
And even, you know, at least in training that can include maybe never doing the move, but
389
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,400
just making progress on it is really important to me.
390
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,140
Yeah, yeah, I guess I didn't mean in terms of like only having one shot or like only
391
00:24:42,140 --> 00:24:44,800
having a few tries.
392
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:51,120
But I mean, for me, if I there's times when I look at a boulder and I'm like, oh, I don't
393
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:54,360
think this is something I could ever do.
394
00:24:54,360 --> 00:25:01,360
So I'm just kind of wondering, like, if you ever look at a boulder and still feel that
395
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:06,520
way, especially when it's like more dynamic or slab, because you don't get that practice
396
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,600
as much in lead routes.
397
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:15,640
Yeah, I think I think like I definitely feel like I'm not sure how this movement is going
398
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:16,640
to go.
399
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,880
Let me just try it sometimes and figure it out sort of on the wall.
400
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:26,320
And I think that's really like, you know, hit me hard sometimes where like, I don't
401
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,400
know how to do it still, even when I'm on the wall, or I am not sure how to commit to
402
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,480
the movement at hand, because I haven't figured out before.
403
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,560
But I think really like visualizing movement from the ground has been really helpful for
404
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:40,600
me with bouldering.
405
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:45,360
And it's honestly pushed my lead climbing as well, like, not just picturing, you know,
406
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:49,240
which hand goes where, but like, where are my hips going to be when I do this movement?
407
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:55,240
Where where like are my feet going to swing out into?
408
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,960
I think that just like some more subtle things to really think about the position of the
409
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:06,080
movement rather than just the movement of like, right hand left hand here, has been
410
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:12,120
kind of a progression in my climbing, I would say, and in my like, you know, route reading
411
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,120
as a whole.
412
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:14,120
Makes sense.
413
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:20,360
And so then, I guess going into the Olympics a bit, what was your strategy for the combined
414
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:21,360
format?
415
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:26,400
I mean, it looks like you decided to work really hard on boulder.
416
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,560
Did you ever consider just like doubling down on lead only?
417
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:36,200
Yeah, it's funny, like, in retrospect, like, I feel like bouldering didn't actually like
418
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,200
matter that much.
419
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,880
It really mattered, like, who could just get past like the bottom crux in in lead, as far
420
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,520
as like who would progress to finals.
421
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,680
Of course, it like mattered in the grand scheme.
422
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,080
But like, Tomoa, for instance, like, had one of the highest bouldering scores.
423
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,220
But because he didn't get past the crux on the lead route, he wasn't able to progress
424
00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:59,320
to finals, which I think is like a bummer.
425
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,280
But that's kind of how the combined format goes sometimes.
426
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:04,280
So I think that like for...
427
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,120
Oh, sorry, was the...
428
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,840
So I mean, yeah, the boulder run in semis was really difficult.
429
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,080
I remember that.
430
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,080
Was the...
431
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,640
Oh, the semis lead route was the one where everyone had that foot slip, right?
432
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:17,640
Yeah, exactly.
433
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,400
Yeah, there were like six or seven people who like, yeah, fell in the same move, for
434
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:23,400
sure.
435
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,400
So yeah, it was kind of crazy for sure.
436
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,320
Like it was very unexpected, I would say.
437
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,260
And yeah, so I think that in retrospect, like, would practicing like lead have yielded a
438
00:27:34,260 --> 00:27:35,600
different result?
439
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,880
I think probably.
440
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:42,160
But I also think that like the same could have been reverse where, you know, maybe the
441
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,960
boulder round would have been a little bit softer and it mattered more getting like each
442
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,200
top than like the lead route.
443
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,840
Maybe everyone had like a bottleneck on the lead route and which has happened like in
444
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,120
plenty of other comps.
445
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,380
So I think that coming into it, I just really wanted to feel like the most confident all-around
446
00:27:59,380 --> 00:28:01,040
climber that I could.
447
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,400
And I think that I really did feel that way.
448
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,960
Of course, like I wasn't able to train like the way I wanted to do the finger injury,
449
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:15,000
but I think that I split my time throughout the year so that I focused on bouldering more
450
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,760
in the beginning and then ended on more ropes, honestly, than bouldering like almost like
451
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,100
60-40 or 70-30 towards like lead.
452
00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:31,880
So that I would feel more confident in the thing that I feel the most like talented in
453
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,880
from the get-go.
454
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,880
I really do feel like I find a lot of joy in like training lead and I feel like it makes
455
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,960
me fall into like a good headspace.
456
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,320
So I think that that was really important like leading up to the Olympics.
457
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:50,220
Yeah, did you, when you like went back into training lead again, did you feel like boulder
458
00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:52,460
training worsened your lead climbing ability?
459
00:28:52,460 --> 00:28:54,500
Was that ever a fear?
460
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:59,480
I think that it wasn't a fear that it would like worsen it just by doing it, but just
461
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,720
that I would like lose some time training lead by doing it.
462
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:12,120
Like I really think that like part of like why I got injured maybe was just because of
463
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,960
like the high load that I had on myself, like weightlifting, bouldering training, lead training,
464
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:24,720
all kind of like confounding into one and then going into like a smaller competition.
465
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,440
I think that, you know, adding a lot of like pressure just like went to like a melting
466
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,380
pot that kind of like maybe exploded a little bit too soon.
467
00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:39,560
So I think that for me like that's definitely something that I'm interested in focusing
468
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,080
on just like the load as a whole and making sure to control that as best I can.
469
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,400
Yeah, I guess we can get into this finger injury.
470
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:55,080
How early did it happen before the Olympics and like what specifically was the injury?
471
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,980
Please excuse this brief intermission, but I've gotten a few requests for this.
472
00:29:58,980 --> 00:30:04,080
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473
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481
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Back to the show.
482
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,000
Yeah, so it's a flexor tendon injury.
483
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:45,560
I basically jumped to kind of like a slot hold and kind of hit it almost four, but then
484
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,120
like slipped to a three finger drag.
485
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:54,360
So my flexor tendon like it goes all the way down from like the base of my ring finger
486
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,960
to almost my elbow, honestly.
487
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,480
And I felt it at the base of my elbow.
488
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,800
Or I guess like right above the elbow.
489
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,160
And I was like, oh, that feels strange, but I didn't actually think that much of it.
490
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,560
So the next day I like came back to the gym.
491
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,800
It definitely was like way weaker and it felt a little off.
492
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,000
But I was like, okay, like I've had some like slight tweaks in my fingers before.
493
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,380
So I'm sure it's like just that.
494
00:31:20,380 --> 00:31:24,000
Kept climbing on it for the next week or so.
495
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,000
And then I got it like, but then it didn't fully go away.
496
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:36,320
So I got it assessed by like RPT like Zach DeCristino and I could like barely just like
497
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,120
put weight on it by itself.
498
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,560
So we were like, oh, I guess that's like pretty bad.
499
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:47,040
And he was, so I decided to take a little bit of like time off.
500
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,740
But with his guidance, that was like quite hard because I had a couple of competitions
501
00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:55,240
coming up, including like the Salt Lake World Cup.
502
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:04,000
But so I took like 10 days off and then slowly started just doing like light jug traversing.
503
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,800
But honestly, yeah, it didn't really go away for a long time.
504
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:15,740
I missed like the Salt Lake World Cup, which was like in the middle of May, I think.
505
00:32:15,740 --> 00:32:19,420
And then I was like, okay, well, like, you know, my experience with finger injuries and
506
00:32:19,420 --> 00:32:25,440
what he's telling me, like, it'll be back online at most, like, or at worst case scenario,
507
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,280
it'll be ready to go in like 12 weeks, which would be a bummer because I miss Innsbruck.
508
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:35,560
But at least I'm able to train leading up to like the Games.
509
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,800
And it did definitely improve, but it never fully went away.
510
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,280
And I think that for me, it was really important to like, like the Olympics kind of was like
511
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,280
a dream.
512
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,320
It was something that I was like, look forward to.
513
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,280
And I didn't want to be like an idiot and like make it significantly worse.
514
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:56,440
But I also didn't want to not do my best in the competition.
515
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,600
So it was a really challenging balance to find.
516
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,920
You know, as an athlete, we're constantly asking a lot of our bodies.
517
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:09,560
And I think that this was like the testament of that, of it feels like it's okay sometimes,
518
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,720
but I don't really know how far to push it.
519
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,080
So I really looked for PT guidance.
520
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,480
I've also been working with Carrie Cooper a decent amount, getting several opinions
521
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,120
on it.
522
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:26,080
And I think that throughout all of my training, it definitely was like acting up.
523
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:31,120
But kind of our rule is that if it can go away within like 30 seconds after you get
524
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,620
off the wall.
525
00:33:32,620 --> 00:33:37,600
So say I like feel it while I'm climbing, I come down and it's still there.
526
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:45,680
That's like, okay, but if it doesn't go away as far as like an achiness sensation, then
527
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,400
I'm pushing it too hard.
528
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,960
So I shouldn't like try a climb like that again.
529
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,520
And I think that there were a lot of situations where it's like, oh, this is close because
530
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,760
it's like, you know, 25 seconds or like just about 30 seconds.
531
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,800
And it's like, does that mean I should try it again?
532
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,000
I'm not sure.
533
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:09,160
So I think that, yeah, so I think that I definitely pushed it as close to the limit as I could
534
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:10,920
leading up to the games.
535
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,800
And I think that, yeah, I just never fully went away.
536
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:22,200
And I think that even today, like I'm still fighting it.
537
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,920
Yesterday I had a PT session.
538
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,400
And one of the first things we did was like using a dynamometer, like just testing my
539
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,940
like general grip strength.
540
00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:35,900
So my like right hand is still like 30 pounds weaker than my like left.
541
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:37,080
So I don't know.
542
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,320
It's like definitely frustrating because it's definitely been here for so long.
543
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:47,760
But I think it's also just because of that, you know, Olympic pressure that I put on myself.
544
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,120
I haven't been able to give it the time that it needs to heal.
545
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,160
And I'm really hopeful that I still have like the opportunity to do that this fall.
546
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,160
Yeah.
547
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,800
Have you ever had a finger injury that lasted this long?
548
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,720
Yeah, I've never actually had finger injuries, I guess, knock on wood.
549
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:06,200
So I think that I think that's actually part of it too, is like I don't have the experience
550
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:12,900
to understand when I'm pushing it too hard because I haven't had anything like this before.
551
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:16,560
Like even in the beginning, like I said, like I climbed on it just because I didn't really
552
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,780
understand how severe it was at the time.
553
00:35:19,780 --> 00:35:23,280
So I think looking back, that would have, you know, been one of the biggest changes
554
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,240
that I would have had for myself.
555
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:26,240
Just like understanding.
556
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,120
No, this is like serious.
557
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,280
Like you should take a little bit more time off, give it the chance to heal then so that
558
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,060
you're not dealing with it like many months in the future.
559
00:35:35,060 --> 00:35:36,060
So yeah.
560
00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:37,060
Yeah.
561
00:35:37,060 --> 00:35:41,760
So then leading up to Olympics, what was your training schedule looking like?
562
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,960
I'm assuming it was like you weren't working at that time.
563
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,040
I was still working part time.
564
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,720
I think that, yeah, like I said before, I think that just like having that balance really
565
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:55,560
helps me mentally and especially actually with an injury.
566
00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,560
Like I think that being able to succeed in other things, like it was really nice to have
567
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:06,520
that like, yeah, extra experience as well or other things to focus on.
568
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,640
Because I think climbing was definitely, you know, getting to me a bit.
569
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:16,760
Like I think that, you know, rather than pushing myself to like new levels, like I was just
570
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:23,200
trying to catch up to where I had been before, which mentally was like definitely a challenge
571
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,560
and something that I struggled with a lot.
572
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,080
You know, I think that it's just one of those events that you like want to be in peak shape
573
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:37,320
and it was just a real struggle to, you know, mentally deal with this idea that I'm not
574
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,040
going to be in peak shape, but I can try to get as close as I can to it.
575
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:41,040
But what does that mean?
576
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,980
And am I really progressing my session to session and what does this look like?
577
00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:51,000
So I did keep like a journal leading up to the Olympics of like accomplishments and each
578
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,240
day that I would go into the gym, I would try to like look for something positive that
579
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:58,440
I had done in a session.
580
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,920
Maybe it was like sending a climber circuit that I hadn't done before, or maybe it was
581
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,360
like sending like a boulder that I hadn't done before, or maybe it was just as simple
582
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:12,120
as like, hey, like last time, like I wasn't able to last through like five circuits and
583
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,120
this time I was.
584
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,760
So that's like a check and like something that I approved on.
585
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,920
So I think, yeah, just like finding the small wins was like super important mentally for
586
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,880
me, like leading up to the Olympics.
587
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,920
And honestly, I think that any climber who maybe is like, you know, maybe in a bit of
588
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,800
a plateau or like feeling like they're not improving, keeping some kind of like journal
589
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,720
like that, I think really helped me like stay positive towards my training.
590
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:39,520
Well, I guess in what ways do you feel like your finger held you back leading up to the
591
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,800
Olympics and during?
592
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,680
There was definitely some movement that I couldn't do.
593
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:49,340
So like maybe jumping to like smaller crimps or maybe we'd have like coordination moves
594
00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:51,840
on like bouldering rounds that I was trying.
595
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:59,160
We had like a campus move in the Chamonix like, the finals that I went to that was just
596
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,320
basically like a campus move on crimps.
597
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,960
And I think that it's hard because always like mentally I'm like, oh, is it just that
598
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:12,280
mentally I'm not confident in this kind of movement or is it that my finger is really
599
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,240
hurting a lot and I can't do it?
600
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:19,760
And I feel like finding that balance of understanding and being able to be confident even in something
601
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:26,320
that isn't working fully right is really hard versus like knowing when to just like take
602
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:31,120
a step back because this is too hard and this isn't, you know, the proper thing to be doing
603
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,560
to make sure that I'm the most healthy that I can be.
604
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,560
A lot of coordination moves too, like I would maybe feel it the first couple of times and
605
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,120
I would be like, oh, should I keep trying it and it's confusing because maybe the second
606
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,640
time I don't feel it, but the first time I felt it and the third time I felt it.
607
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:54,040
So it's like, yeah, a really interesting space to be in and something that I've learned a
608
00:38:54,040 --> 00:39:03,880
lot about like how mentally to be able to push myself, but also take like restraint
609
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:10,080
and try to limit myself as well because yeah, like as I said, like as an athlete, like I
610
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:18,600
feel like my job is to push, is to dig deep, is to find new levels of understanding of
611
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,360
what I can do.
612
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:26,400
At the same time, I think that we're learning more and more that it's as important for athletes
613
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:32,120
to take grace towards themselves so that they can live to be the best athlete for a longer
614
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,120
time.
615
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:38,640
I feel like being an athlete in the sport for, you know, when I'm 80 and still like
616
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,080
showing up to your crag and trying to, you know, set a project there is like really important
617
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,080
to me.
618
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:49,620
So I don't want to be like a broken body after every like Olympics I've been to and every
619
00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:51,720
World Cup that I've wanted to achieve.
620
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:55,960
Like I really want it to be a long lasting pursuit for me where I'm constantly able to
621
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,360
find out what I'm capable of given the body that I have.
622
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,100
Yeah, definitely.
623
00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:06,080
So then going forward with the finger injury, I mean, it sounds like you're still dealing
624
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,500
it with it to this day.
625
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:12,960
But you're also doesn't really seem like you're taking a break.
626
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,820
So is that like something where you should continue climbing on it?
627
00:40:17,820 --> 00:40:21,160
Or do you think giving it a bigger break would be helpful?
628
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,840
Yeah, so this is definitely something that I've asked, you know, the PTs that I've worked
629
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,120
with.
630
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:34,120
I think that I did take like a week off and I think that it seems like it might help a
631
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,120
little bit.
632
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:43,240
But my understanding is that like most finger injuries benefit from loading in some way.
633
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:48,280
So I guess like, you know, like 20 years ago or whatever, if you like hurt a finger, it
634
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,000
was like, okay, like to stop climbing.
635
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,080
And then when it's healed, like come back.
636
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:57,160
But I think a lot of the more like modern research shows that like loading it does help
637
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,440
it heal faster.
638
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,520
But I think it's about being smart with that loading.
639
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,600
And I'm not saying that like I've always been smart, especially like leading up to the training
640
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:06,600
for the Olympics.
641
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,800
Like, I think, as I said, I was really trying to find that edge of letting it heal, but
642
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:16,200
also like get my body to its like highest capability that I could be going into the
643
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,200
competition.
644
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:23,400
So I think now I'm falling back a little bit where I'm like, okay, it's not time to like
645
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,580
push to try to be like in Olympic shape.
646
00:41:26,580 --> 00:41:31,880
So like, let's try to push it more safely.
647
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,320
So maybe that's like, right now, it looks more like limiting my climbing to about like
648
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:44,600
80% of where I was at before, but trying to include more like finger strengthening exercises.
649
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:49,860
So that's been like three finger drive like repeaters for me on a hangboard.
650
00:41:49,860 --> 00:41:54,840
And going into this week, I'll be doing starting to do like weighted hangs actually, which
651
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,520
I'm kind of excited for as well.
652
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:01,440
Like I would say that I've had strong fingers for a long time, but I don't think that my
653
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,240
fingers I've always wondered like, you know, if I push my fingers a little bit more, what
654
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:07,240
they could do.
655
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:11,400
So I think it'll be, you know, as far as like trying to stay optimistic, which I think is
656
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,400
really important for injuries.
657
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:19,640
I think that trying to look at it as like an opportunity to grow as a climber is important.
658
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,160
And I'm not saying that I've done that, you know, every week.
659
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,480
And I think more weeks than not, I've definitely just been bummed about it.
660
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,880
But I think like, especially starting this new cycle of like strengthening, I'm pretty
661
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,720
excited to, you know, see what that can do for my climbing as a whole.
662
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:37,560
Okay, well, best of luck to you there.
663
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,280
I hope that your finger gets better soon.
664
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,960
It's been a while.
665
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,160
Yeah, yeah, pretty crazy.
666
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:50,140
So then back to the Olympics, just the Olympics in general, not even the climbing part.
667
00:42:50,140 --> 00:42:52,880
How was your like Olympic Village experience?
668
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,320
Was there anything surprising there for you?
669
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:56,320
Yeah, yeah.
670
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:02,280
I mean, always going to look back on like riding a boat with LeBron, I guess.
671
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,780
And I think that that was like pretty crazy.
672
00:43:04,780 --> 00:43:10,680
Like I think I wasn't fully prepared or like understand understood the idea that like,
673
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,240
LeBron was just like treated equally, like, you know, having like Simone or other great
674
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:19,960
like athletes like just like walking down the street and, you know, staying in the same
675
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,240
places that we were like, I think that that was just mind boggling as like a climber just
676
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:28,360
because, you know, like, we're definitely like treated really well now, like going into
677
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:33,720
like World Cups, like, you know, we actually have like hotel rooms and like places to stay
678
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:38,320
and like accommodation that like is like mostly figured out.
679
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:43,400
But I feel like there it just felt like I was treated fully like an athlete, like a
680
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:50,960
professional and my needs were like, yeah, fully met from, you know, food to laundry
681
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,280
to, you know, if we want to get like haircuts or like have like doctor appointments, like
682
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:00,120
it really felt like almost like socialist society where it's like everyone gets the
683
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:05,100
same gets equal treatment, but treatment is like very out of the high level.
684
00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:08,400
Like we wear the same clothing, like we're all given like the same clothes.
685
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,400
And of course you have like a little bit of choice, but it all has like similar emblems
686
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:13,880
and signs on it.
687
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,160
So yeah, it was a it was a really like special experience.
688
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:22,400
And yeah, one that I'll always like cherish like the memories of for sure.
689
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:28,640
Anyone, any like other athlete that you met that you kind of like fanboyed over?
690
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:29,640
For sure.
691
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,920
I mean, I think that well, I'll say two things.
692
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:38,320
One was that I think it was really interesting to have other athletes that in other sports
693
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:39,680
like be like, oh, you're a climber.
694
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:40,680
Like that's so cool.
695
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,680
Or I even had I don't know, I feel weird like saying this, like I don't mean it as like
696
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:52,240
a brag, but like I had like a volleyball player like recognize me in an elevator.
697
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:57,400
And I feel like that's just like so strange, like like to have climbing be at that level
698
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,020
where like other athletes are like recognizing the athletes and other in like our sport is
699
00:45:02,020 --> 00:45:07,360
just really a change in scenery, I would say.
700
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:12,280
As far as like, yeah, being a fanboy, like, I don't know, Brooke and I like talked to
701
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:17,380
like Jordan Childs like at one point, and I feel like that was like a cool experience.
702
00:45:17,380 --> 00:45:23,640
I think that we had conversations with like the women's basketball team, which is like
703
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,760
super cool.
704
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,120
I met like some of like the rowing team and of course, like a ton of other athletes.
705
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:35,960
My mom is like a artistic swimmer and I got to like meet some of the artistic swimmers
706
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:36,960
there.
707
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,520
So I was definitely being a fanboy over that for sure.
708
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:40,520
Cool.
709
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,160
I had no idea that your mom was an artistic swimmer.
710
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:45,160
That's so interesting.
711
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:46,160
Yeah, yeah.
712
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,160
Like she competed or?
713
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:48,160
She still does actually.
714
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,160
Yeah.
715
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,360
Yeah, it's pretty cool for sure.
716
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,360
That's right.
717
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:54,360
Get some of my grit from.
718
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:59,920
Yeah, I guess not an Olympic level or did she ever do like Olympic competitions and that?
719
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:05,800
No, yeah, she's done world competitions, but are like international events, but she kind
720
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,120
of started I think in her 20s.
721
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,400
So she's been doing it for like a long time.
722
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,800
She also does like shows and stuff like that as well, which is like quite cool.
723
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:15,800
It's cool.
724
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,520
Yeah, it's cool to know that like a volleyball player knows about climbing, but maybe that's
725
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:26,160
something we should like try to get more used to because that means I mean, it's like almost
726
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,520
kind of sad that we're just like, oh, well, no one should know about climbing.
727
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,360
Like that would be weird if people knew about that.
728
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:34,840
Yeah, yeah.
729
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:40,520
Yeah, I still get surprised when people tell me that they like watched like climbing in
730
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,920
the Olympics, but I don't know, maybe maybe we shouldn't be surprised.
731
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,880
It's time to stop being surprised.
732
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,240
Yeah, for sure.
733
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:53,740
I mean, as like the yeah, older dude in the sport, it's like it's just so crazy to see
734
00:46:53,740 --> 00:46:56,040
it transition and change over time.
735
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,280
And I think that I'm still like biased by my perception of like, I don't know, being
736
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:05,380
picked on for climbing like as a kid in like high school or or like middle school.
737
00:47:05,380 --> 00:47:07,120
So I feel like that.
738
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:12,760
Yeah, impression of it from the outside world is still with me a little bit, but you're
739
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:13,760
totally right.
740
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,120
Like I think that it's time that like climbing is like treated like a real sport and like
741
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:19,500
this is like the trajectory of it.
742
00:47:19,500 --> 00:47:21,000
So let's embrace it.
743
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,660
Yeah, very exciting.
744
00:47:23,660 --> 00:47:27,760
And so yeah, you talked about afterwards the post Olympic blues.
745
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,800
I think I've heard about that a little bit.
746
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,080
But how did that manifest for you?
747
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,680
Yeah, I think that, you know, even to this day, like, I still feel like there's like
748
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,880
a piece of me that that has it.
749
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,920
Basically, like, I think that if you're going to focus on one goal for so long, and have
750
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:48,720
it not go the way you want it to, it's going to be really hard to jump back from that and
751
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,720
re put all this energy that you've like been building over time into something else.
752
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:56,840
For me, like, I think what especially hit hard was just like that I still had a finger
753
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:57,840
injury.
754
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:02,040
I think that I had suppressed that idea in me, even though I'm like, I've been talking
755
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:03,040
about it.
756
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,160
I think going into the Olympics, I was like, Okay, I don't have a finger injury.
757
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,440
That's not the kind of like climber I am right now.
758
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,680
And I think I really convinced myself of that, so that I had the best opportunity to perform
759
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,360
at the highest level I could mentally, like I didn't want to be thinking about my finger
760
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,360
on the wall.
761
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,600
I ended up having that happen a little bit because I ended up feeling it on one of the
762
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:24,600
moves.
763
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:30,040
But I think that to suppress this notion of like who you actually are, which is that like
764
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,240
I'm an injured climber right now.
765
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:36,720
And then to come out of that and be like, like, wait, like I'm injured, like that doesn't
766
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:40,720
that's like so different than the reality that I tried to wake up in like a few days
767
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:42,520
ago.
768
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:48,200
It was really hard for me to make that switch and not have anything in climbing that I could
769
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,160
like look forward to as much anymore.
770
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,280
Like for instance, like I was like, okay, like, if the Olympics don't go great, like
771
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,720
I'll go like shun it outside for the fall season.
772
00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:02,240
But even now, like it's like, okay, actually, like, now is like rehab time, and I can't
773
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:07,400
like, you know, go play in forests easily, or at like the level that I wanted to.
774
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:12,040
And I think that even in magic with like, as I said before, that was like, the challenge
775
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:17,160
for me was like, okay, I just need to have fun at the level of I'm at and like not hurt
776
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:18,440
myself while doing that.
777
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:23,240
Well, I guess in this case, it almost, it doesn't even sound like post Olympic blues
778
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:25,320
kind of just like injury blues.
779
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:31,880
Yeah, I mean, I think I think the goal piece of like the Olympics definitely like contributed.
780
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,240
So I think that I think that if it wasn't like a high pressure environment of like the
781
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:40,320
Olympics, like I wouldn't have, it wouldn't have hit me as hard.
782
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:47,200
I think that, yeah, it was just something that like, I had been looking forward to having
783
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:54,200
fun on that stage and fully like believing in myself like, and just coming out of it,
784
00:49:54,200 --> 00:50:00,440
not having like those like simpler expectations in my head of like, performing my best and
785
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:06,760
being confident, not having those smaller ideas come to fruition was just really challenging
786
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,560
for me to grapple with.
787
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:15,640
And it's hard to like imagine like, you know, maybe I'll go for LA like in four years, maybe
788
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:20,120
I won't, but it was definitely like a once in a lifetime competition.
789
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:27,960
So to have it not be not have myself not be where I want to be, it's just hard to come
790
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,440
out the other side and be fully satisfied.
791
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:36,360
Yeah, do you have any regrets in terms of your training for the Olympics?
792
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,520
Or is there anything you think you should have changed in hindsight?
793
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,520
Yeah, I think that if I were to do it all again, I think I probably would have spent
794
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,640
a little bit less time in the earlier part of the season focusing on like strength and
795
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:49,040
conditioning.
796
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,680
I wouldn't have like put it away, but I think that, you know, I was doing it at least like
797
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:58,640
three times a week and I think I would have probably dropped it more.
798
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,600
I think that I always just like ended my sessions with it.
799
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,400
So I always was like more tired coming into like the next one.
800
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:10,720
I also think that I would have probably, yeah, focused a little bit more heavily like on
801
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:14,280
lead leading up to the comp.
802
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:19,200
But you know, you live and you learn and I don't have any like regrets, I would say.
803
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:24,520
I just have, you know, new perspectives and new things that I'm going to bring to my
804
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:25,880
training going forward.
805
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:32,580
Yeah, and so you mentioned that after the Olympics, it's kind of like weird not really
806
00:51:32,580 --> 00:51:37,280
having such a specific goal anymore.
807
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,280
What is kind of your goal now?
808
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,840
Yeah, I think rehab is like the goal for sure.
809
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,080
I think that I want to feel healthy on the wall.
810
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,840
I want to feel like I'm able to push myself fully.
811
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:55,080
So I think that just, yeah, gearing down, putting blinders on to everything else that's
812
00:51:55,080 --> 00:52:02,240
happening and just trying to be back to what I know I can be is the key goal for the fall.
813
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:04,160
Any like outdoor goals?
814
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:05,760
Definitely, yeah.
815
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,840
And I think that's also hard because I, you know, there are different seasons that I'm
816
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,640
like, oh, it'd be so cool if I could be ready for, you know, climbing in like Yosemite in
817
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:19,600
the end of October or like climbing in this crag around like Utah by the middle of October.
818
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:27,520
But I think I'm also trying to keep perspective that it's important to not get my expectations
819
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:28,520
too high.
820
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:36,920
I'm kind of looking more like to the winter or spring now for pushing, yeah, the outdoor
821
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:37,920
goals.
822
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:42,800
So I haven't really made any specific plans, but definitely excited to go on a sports trip,
823
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,280
for instance, like in the winter, later winter months.
824
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,800
But I think that based on talking to like my PT yesterday, like it sounds like it could
825
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,080
be another like three months before I'm like fully back.
826
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:55,080
Yeah.
827
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,120
That's kind of rough.
828
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:58,120
That's a shame.
829
00:52:58,120 --> 00:52:59,120
Yeah.
830
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:07,200
You also mentioned maybe considering LA 2028, especially if they like split out the disciplines
831
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:08,880
for LA.
832
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,200
I think I mean, that would be a cool opportunity, right?
833
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:18,080
I think they've been climbing has been awarded three medals for LA, but they're going to
834
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,200
wait till March to decide like which disciplines to include.
835
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,320
So I think that I've heard things about like, you know, maybe even like a speed relay being
836
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,840
included as opposed to another discipline.
837
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:33,520
So we'll see, you know, like if they actually break it up in the way that us climbers like
838
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,000
understand.
839
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,920
I have a lot of hope that that will happen because it just like logically makes the most
840
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:40,240
sense to me.
841
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:46,200
But I think it will be a question until March as far as like what the organizers decide to
842
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:51,800
do because like ultimately like the Olympics, unfortunately is more about views and what
843
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:58,600
they think they're going to get the most excitement out of.
844
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:03,600
So it definitely doesn't have to align with like what us as climbers like understand it
845
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:04,600
to be.
846
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:06,520
But it would definitely be nicer if it was.
847
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:11,560
Well, that's the first time I've heard anyone say that maybe they're like considering speed
848
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:17,080
relays instead of breaking out the bouldering and lead.
849
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,080
That's interesting.
850
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:19,520
I get it, I guess.
851
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,600
Yeah, I mean, I think that to me it would be kind of crazy.
852
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,720
And that's just like one idea that I've heard.
853
00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:33,240
I think they're doing like a simulation event in Spain sometime in the fall.
854
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:35,000
So yeah, I guess we'll see how that goes.
855
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,880
But yeah, I think it would be crazy if they decided to do anything else besides splitting
856
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:40,880
up the three disciplines.
857
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,360
Yeah, I mean, I think like as a climber, that does sound kind of crazy.
858
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,960
But thinking about the Olympics, I could see that happening.
859
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,080
Like that does make sense.
860
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,000
It does kind of track.
861
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,480
But okay, that's interesting to know.
862
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:04,840
If they do split up the disciplines or even if they don't, what would go into your like
863
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:09,400
thought process or decision process for whether or not you would want to go for it again?
864
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:14,560
Yeah, honestly, I think it's like mainly about where I'm finding joy in the sport.
865
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:22,120
I think that for me, I really want to continue finding meaning out of my life.
866
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:28,080
And I think that, as I mentioned before, climbing sometimes does feel a little self-centered
867
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,240
and self-focused.
868
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:34,400
But I also, of course, love it and love the challenges it provides.
869
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:40,800
So I think that I want to understand my relationship with it while coming out of this, having a
870
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:48,240
healed finger, making sure that I'm both mentally and physically healthy before deciding fully
871
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:49,360
to go for it.
872
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:54,880
Because I think I, yeah, if I can avoid it, I would rather not go into another Olympic
873
00:55:54,880 --> 00:56:06,480
cycle having so much pressure on me that maybe led to an injury and maybe led to me continuing
874
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,480
to not deal with an injury.
875
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:13,440
But I think that's a reality of sports in general, that you're maybe going to have
876
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:22,040
to fight through what your body is telling you just to perform at your best for your
877
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,180
dreams to come true too.
878
00:56:24,180 --> 00:56:26,120
So I guess that's a long-winded answer.
879
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:29,440
But I think I'm excited right now.
880
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,400
I think that I find a lot of joy from climbing.
881
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:35,240
I find it to be one of the most thrilling activities in my life.
882
00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:40,280
And I think that as long as I can keep that up, I think that there's not much of a question
883
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:42,320
to my mind that I want to keep going for it.
884
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:48,480
But I do want to take time to reflect on the past four years, honestly, and reflect on
885
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:53,720
my life as a whole before fully committing to what that next four years looks like.
886
00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:54,720
Okay.
887
00:56:54,720 --> 00:57:00,760
It's interesting that your consideration is mainly, I mean, you've said a couple of times
888
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,680
now that you feel like it's kind of a selfish sport or that it's very focused on you.
889
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:12,160
I feel like for most people, their decision for whether or not they want to continue climbing
890
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:21,480
or competition climbing is just how hard the training is or how you're performing.
891
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,840
Does that not really affect your decision at all?
892
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,160
I love the training.
893
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,280
I love pushing myself to that level.
894
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:37,200
I think that it's just so fun for me to be in a space where it's like, oh, I don't know
895
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:38,200
if I can do this.
896
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:39,960
And then you try it and maybe you don't do it.
897
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,080
And then it's like, okay, well, I still don't know if I can do this.
898
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:48,680
And then just continuing that process is truly beautiful for me.
899
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:53,020
But as far as like, and of course that changes sometimes.
900
00:57:53,020 --> 00:58:01,040
Not every day I'm that stoked to be like 10 circuits deep and yeah, just like my arms
901
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:05,280
are on fire and I'm like, why am I here?
902
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:10,680
But I think that at the core, I think that the training for me is super exciting.
903
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:18,560
But I think that just coming from a family of social workers and other do-gooders in
904
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:24,640
the world, I do want to make sure that I'm leaving the world a little bit better than
905
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:25,640
I started.
906
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:31,800
So I am finding other meaning, whether it be working with Protector Winters or other
907
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:32,800
nonprofits.
908
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:42,080
I think that for me, in addition to the work that I do, just using maybe the platform of
909
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:49,040
the Olympics or just like my time as like a human to try to progress the world to the
910
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:55,720
state that I'm hoping it'll get to some year down the line is really important to
911
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:56,720
me too.
912
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:57,720
Yeah.
913
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,560
Tell me more about like the work that you do for Protector Winters.
914
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:01,560
Yeah.
915
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,720
So it's relatively new.
916
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:08,880
Climbing like sort of just joined their roster this past year.
917
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:13,480
It's of course been something that's a lot more focused on like winter sports, hence
918
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,120
the name, but they're really trying to like branch out.
919
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:23,600
But basically, they're a climate-focused, climate-activism-focused group.
920
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:30,640
And basically, the idea is to organize and bring like athletes together who participate
921
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:38,240
in outdoor sports to understand like how we can make a difference in climate change.
922
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:46,000
I think that using our platforms and our position as people who have all seen the outdoors changing
923
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:54,400
in our lifetime, especially in climbing, I feel like as a kid, I could send really hard
924
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,840
in the red in the summer.
925
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:04,480
Of course, the main season to send hard when I was growing up was October down in the southeast.
926
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,580
That season has continually shifted.
927
01:00:07,580 --> 01:00:12,800
And I think that's happened all around us, whether it be in Salt Lake, like the wildfire
928
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:20,720
smoke or smog, or even we had our leadership summit for POW in Montana, which also had
929
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,080
a bunch of fires.
930
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,560
But basically just recognizing that the climate is changing.
931
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,640
And I think that that's true in outdoor climbing.
932
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:36,280
It's also true for competitions being canceled with flooding or extreme heat, which we saw
933
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:41,560
in the OQS series, where athletes aren't able to perform their best.
934
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:46,440
And yeah, I'm worried about the outdoors, but also even in competition, I think that
935
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:51,440
events are continually being moved indoors rather than keeping them outdoors just because
936
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:58,280
it's so risky what you're going to get for the outdoor climate at the time of the competition.
937
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:04,080
And that's a real bummer to not be able to fit as many spectators inside and also just
938
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:09,000
not to be able to have this beautiful mountains, which I always associate with World Cups in
939
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:10,480
the background.
940
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:16,120
But anyway, yeah, Protector Winter is right now is mainly focused on getting out the vote
941
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:23,600
and trying to promote candidates who are climate focused and willing to accept that climate
942
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,880
change is real and they want to do something about it.
943
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:27,880
Okay.
944
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:29,840
Well, thank you for sharing about that.
945
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:36,240
Yeah, and in terms of venues going indoors, Salt Lake used to be outdoors and now it's
946
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,800
in the training center.
947
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,720
How do athletes feel about that?
948
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:49,240
Yeah, I did attend as a spectator, but a year or two ago, it was insane with the flooding
949
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:50,240
in the field.
950
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:56,600
I think it cost us climbing many thousands of dollars to fix the field after the fact.
951
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:02,320
And I think that just because it's a temporary event and then they move it, but it damaged
952
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:09,160
the field based on the stadium and all the spectators walking around on wet grass that
953
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,000
then became mud pretty fast.
954
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,720
So anyway, that's a long-winded answer.
955
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:20,360
But I think for me, it's a real bummer to not be able to have climbing be in a more
956
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:25,640
centered stadium where outsiders or people who have never seen it, they're driving down
957
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:27,480
the street and they're like, oh, what the heck is that?
958
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:32,840
And it's like an introduction to what climbing is rather than being in a warehouse where
959
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,080
it's very enclosed.
960
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:44,440
It's a space that is not as bright and sunny and is not showing the connection of nature
961
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:49,680
to climbing, which I think is a really important aspect of the indoor sport that I feel like
962
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:53,440
we're continually losing over time.
963
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:58,280
I'm the last one to say that I'm not a gym rat because I've been in the gym basically
964
01:02:58,280 --> 01:02:59,680
for the past nine months.
965
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:06,840
But I think that the more that the indoor scene can be connected to the outdoors, I
966
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:12,800
think one on just the ethics of climbing can be maintained more.
967
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:22,200
But also, yeah, just as far as finding joy in nature, I think that separation is becoming
968
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,800
more and more clear between indoors and outdoors.
969
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:31,120
And I just hope that competition climbing can maintain a little bit of that outdoor
970
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:32,120
exposure too.
971
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:38,120
And then really quick, I was just thinking, I mean, because it is protect our winters
972
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:42,880
and you said that climbing is new to it.
973
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,440
It just reminded me about ice climbing.
974
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,800
Is that something that you're ever interested in trying?
975
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:49,880
Or have you done it?
976
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:50,880
I've tried it once.
977
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:52,360
Yeah, and I hated it.
978
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:57,200
I already have such cold hands and I feel like it was so rough.
979
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:03,160
I think that if I went with someone who knew a lot more about what they were doing or if
980
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:09,200
I had a specific objective, I think mixed climbing could be really cool.
981
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:15,760
But yeah, for me right now, I'm really interested in pushing myself within the realm of what
982
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,800
my hands can do.
983
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:22,280
So I feel like, yeah, maybe that kind of climbing will be in my future.
984
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:29,480
But for now, yeah, I think just focusing on rock climbing will be my focus for the near
985
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:30,480
future.
986
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:31,480
Okay.
987
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,920
I mean, it wouldn't make the finger injury worse.
988
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,040
So maybe it would be good for that.
989
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:38,040
Yeah, maybe now.
990
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:39,040
Yeah, for sure.
991
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:40,040
Okay, cool.
992
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:47,000
So those were all the questions that I had, but we had a few discord questions that I
993
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,800
wanted to go over as well.
994
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:54,240
So well, the first one was just, why does it seem as though you're literally friends
995
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,200
with every climber in the climbing circuit?
996
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:57,200
You're too popular.
997
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,160
I guess that was more of just a statement.
998
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:01,160
That's funny.
999
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:05,760
I feel like I'm not actually friends with everyone, but I feel like, yeah, it's definitely
1000
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:10,120
important or like it's something that differentiates climbing from other sports where I feel like
1001
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:11,800
we're friendly with our competitors.
1002
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:20,560
We like to give beta and information to each other to all have a level playing field.
1003
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:23,980
And I think that's a really beautiful part of the sport.
1004
01:05:23,980 --> 01:05:28,640
Even in the Olympics, it's like I'm talking to competitors from other countries about
1005
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:30,720
what they think they're going to do in certain sequences.
1006
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,140
And yeah, what other sports do you have that?
1007
01:05:33,140 --> 01:05:37,960
I feel like there's this really intense competition that I feel like I felt from other sports
1008
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:43,240
that is definitely like seeping into climbing, but I feel like the longer we can maintain
1009
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:49,480
that the longer climbing will be special and not something that has just absorbed into
1010
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,320
the sporting world as a whole.
1011
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:52,320
Yeah.
1012
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:57,120
Have you noticed that it's gotten more competitive with the Olympics coming into play?
1013
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:01,360
Yeah, I definitely think that the World Cup season leading into the Olympics was one of
1014
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:05,800
the most intense environments that I've felt, especially like Bird, which is like the world
1015
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,160
championships like last year.
1016
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,560
I feel like Ever was just in their zone.
1017
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:17,200
Not many people were making jokes or looking like they were having just fun.
1018
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:23,520
A lot of people in isolation were trying to one up each other or something like that,
1019
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,800
which I think is common and can be really enjoyable and playful.
1020
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:32,360
But it just felt like way more of an intense environment than when I'm used to in the sport,
1021
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:33,360
for sure.
1022
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:38,120
Yeah, I wonder if it was even worse during the OQS series.
1023
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:43,200
I feel like there was a lot of intense stuff happening around that time.
1024
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,520
Yeah, for sure.
1025
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:52,200
I can't really speak to that, but I'm sure it was a pretty intense environment for sure.
1026
01:06:52,200 --> 01:07:00,240
Yeah, even during the Pan Ams when you qualified, I feel like that was also probably a pretty
1027
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,400
emotionally volatile moment for you.
1028
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:04,400
Yeah, for sure.
1029
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:10,960
I mean, I think that it's the epitome of wanting your competitors to do well, but not letting
1030
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:18,480
that affect how you climb and not letting your goals of winning change who you are as
1031
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:22,880
a person as well, which I think that is really hard to lose on that kind of stage.
1032
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:27,960
Yeah, like the other Americans who were there, I wanted nothing but for them to be able to
1033
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:28,960
do their best.
1034
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:35,200
And yeah, it just is so hard to have your dreams come at the expense of others.
1035
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:40,920
Yeah, so that kind of leads into the next question, which is who do you think are the
1036
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,960
next dominant climbers in the new generation?
1037
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:46,280
Whoa.
1038
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:53,580
It's crazy seeing the level just of the climbers coming into the training center, people moving
1039
01:07:53,580 --> 01:07:56,440
out to Salt Lake City.
1040
01:07:56,440 --> 01:08:02,120
It's funny to call them the next generation because I feel like they're already here,
1041
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:09,480
you know, the Tobias and Serratos of the world, they're seven, eight years younger than me.
1042
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,120
And I feel like that is the next generation in many ways.
1043
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:18,160
But as far as Americans, which I'm assuming the question maybe is, I don't know.
1044
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:21,080
It wasn't specified, so you could get into both if you want.
1045
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:28,440
Yeah, I mean, I feel like there already are several, it's funny to call them like teenagers,
1046
01:08:28,440 --> 01:08:33,240
but it is true, like who have like many names for themselves by like qualifying for like
1047
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:41,680
World Cups this past year or the year before, like Bob Dylan, Hugo Boyer and like Adam Shahar
1048
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:46,160
are like some of the first names that come to mind just because they've like been to
1049
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:51,440
like World Cups and definitely like the level is like really impressive to see.
1050
01:08:51,440 --> 01:08:57,280
I'm sure I'm like missing some names there, but I think that yeah, the next generation
1051
01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:03,160
is coming and it's like super cool for me to like see climbing being pushed to like
1052
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:04,880
new levels for sure.
1053
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:09,720
Yeah, do you feel like you can tell there's a difference between like the way they grew
1054
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,960
up with climbing versus maybe how you grew up with climbing?
1055
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:18,840
Yeah, I mean, not to talk about them specifically, but I think in general, like more kids of
1056
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:22,480
that age are growing up with like remote high school, for instance, which I feel like is
1057
01:09:22,480 --> 01:09:27,000
like so different than like my generation and like just this idea of like remote school
1058
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,040
is like much different.
1059
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:36,320
I think that there is a lot more focus and just pursuit of like purely competition climbing
1060
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:40,760
and maybe not a balance, which I feel like is what I sort of grew up with.
1061
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:45,520
But I think that some of them also like bring both to the table and I am hopeful that like
1062
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,920
there's continual like mentorship in like both spaces.
1063
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:55,480
Yeah, and I also I guess I didn't mention like Annie Sanders, but really cool to see
1064
01:09:55,480 --> 01:10:01,080
her like just like yeah, I get a medal at like the World Cup this past season as well.
1065
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:03,880
So yeah, they're definitely here and definitely coming.
1066
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,560
Yeah, yeah, she's been crushing it.
1067
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:12,240
Okay, and the last question, do you see your professional athletic career and your engineering
1068
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:17,280
career intersecting at some point, such as maybe something like assistive technology
1069
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:22,620
that could be applied to a para climbing application?
1070
01:10:22,620 --> 01:10:24,480
Or do you always prefer to keep them separate?
1071
01:10:24,480 --> 01:10:28,840
Yeah, if anyone has any connections out there, definitely hit me up.
1072
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,680
But yeah, I definitely have thought about that for a while.
1073
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,720
I think especially with like para being included in LA, like it would be really meaningful
1074
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:39,640
for me to get to do something in that space.
1075
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:41,800
So I have thought about it for a while.
1076
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:46,160
I think that I don't need to have them be separate, but I think definitely having like
1077
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:51,720
projects in both spaces, like I wouldn't necessarily just want to build a device for me, you know,
1078
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:56,680
for me to like pursue climbing at like a higher level solely.
1079
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:01,360
But I think that like, the more I get involved in like both areas, like the more I'm interested
1080
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:07,680
in what new technology can progress like my sport, or like sports in general, for sure.
1081
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:09,840
So yeah, it's definitely an interesting question.
1082
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:14,760
And I think that like, for me, it's just about advancing like human performance, whether that
1083
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:17,840
be myself or like other people's.
1084
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,720
So I'm like interested in those kinds of questions as a whole.
1085
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:24,080
Okay, have you like had any ideas come to mind?
1086
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:25,080
Yeah, for sure.
1087
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:35,200
I mean, I think that even some of the devices that I've like worked with in my lab currently,
1088
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:40,000
just to back up, I worked with an organization called Peak Potential, which like helped children
1089
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,840
with like various physical disabilities learn how to like rock climb.
1090
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:48,920
And I think like those assistive devices, such as like a shoulder device to help people
1091
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:55,760
like lift their arms up over their head could definitely be used in the kind of like assistive
1092
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:57,560
climbing space as well.
1093
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:02,560
So I think that that would be really cool to, you know, tie in those kinds of devices
1094
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:10,200
to kids or even adult para climbers as well, just to, you know, I think a lot of that is
1095
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,680
like more for rehab.
1096
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:18,480
So like, regaining mobility, so maybe it wouldn't actually be applied to para climbers, or like
1097
01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:25,120
professional, like para climbers, but like people who are looking to get more like rehab
1098
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:30,040
out of the sport, which that organization was like focused on, it could be a really
1099
01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:31,880
useful device.
1100
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,600
Because right now, like other volunteers are like sort of like lifting their arms over
1101
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:37,160
their head for them.
1102
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:40,280
So what if we had like a robot do the same task instead?
1103
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:41,280
Exciting.
1104
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:46,880
And okay, well, I think that is all the questions I had.
1105
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,200
Any like final thoughts you wanted to get out there?
1106
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:56,960
No, I think I guess the only other thing that not to like make it too political, but like
1107
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:01,680
I do think that for me as like climber, like looking into like my future, like I definitely
1108
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:05,400
think that like voting is like super important coming up.
1109
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:08,440
And yeah, hoping that everyone out there like registers to vote.
1110
01:13:08,440 --> 01:13:09,440
Okay.
1111
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:15,000
I mean, not a fully US podcast, but for the people in the US.
1112
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:18,040
Yeah, go on and vote.
1113
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:19,040
And for everyone else.
1114
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:20,040
Not in the US.
1115
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,720
Yeah, just encourage your US friends to vote, I guess.
1116
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:23,720
Yeah.
1117
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,520
And just enjoy all the political memes, I guess, that come out of the process.
1118
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:29,520
Yeah, for sure.
1119
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:30,520
Geez.
1120
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:31,520
Oh my god, so many.
1121
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:33,480
There's some good stuff out there.
1122
01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:34,480
Yeah.
1123
01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:35,480
And songs.
1124
01:13:35,480 --> 01:13:36,480
And songs.
1125
01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:37,480
Yeah.
1126
01:13:37,480 --> 01:13:45,960
Oh, like the Charlie XCX Sprat coconut meme.
1127
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:46,960
Oh, maybe.
1128
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:47,960
Yeah.
1129
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:48,960
I don't know.
1130
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:52,040
Just from like the last debate, I feel like I'm like, yeah, not that great at singing,
1131
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:56,200
but like I feel like, yeah, there were just ones of like taking different phrases and
1132
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:58,680
Are you talking about the cat one?
1133
01:13:58,680 --> 01:13:59,680
Yes, I am.
1134
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:00,680
Okay.
1135
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:03,240
I was like, do I sing it on air right now?
1136
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:04,240
Or like, yeah.
1137
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:05,840
If you want, you can go for it.
1138
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:07,640
I'll put in a clip.
1139
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:09,840
Yeah, maybe that would just be better.
1140
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:13,520
And I can voice over it.
1141
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:14,720
They're eating the dogs.
1142
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,160
They're eating the dogs.
1143
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:18,160
They're eating the cats.
1144
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,840
That's just been in my head for days.
1145
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:21,840
Days.
1146
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:22,840
Oh my gosh.
1147
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:23,840
I'm so behind.
1148
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:27,080
I only saw it like yesterday.
1149
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:31,480
But I'm glad you're very in on the loop with that meme.
1150
01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:37,880
It'll still come out in like three weeks, so it might be old by then.
1151
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:39,880
Yeah, true.
1152
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:43,840
I'm surrounded by a lot of like teens throughout my day.
1153
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:46,320
And yeah, there's a lot of memes.
1154
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:48,240
Yeah, that's true.
1155
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:53,680
You know, I'm surrounded by like some kids during like climbing training.
1156
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,360
And there are definitely points.
1157
01:14:56,360 --> 01:15:00,520
They were like, there was like a group of them and they were like hangboarding and they
1158
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:02,960
were singing like the skibbity song.
1159
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,040
I was like, I'm too old for this now.
1160
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,400
Yeah, I feel that way a lot, honestly.
1161
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:14,880
Or just even some of the words like, yeah, well, it's a full education in there.
1162
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:18,360
Yeah, I mean, I knew it was a thing, but I didn't know they just went around singing
1163
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:19,360
it.
1164
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:20,720
That's like a little too much for me.
1165
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:25,360
But yeah, I'm sure you're surrounded by a lot more kids than I am on the day to day
1166
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:26,360
or teens.
1167
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:27,360
Maybe, maybe.
1168
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:28,360
It's terrifying.
1169
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:29,360
Okay.
1170
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:30,360
Cool.
1171
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,800
Well, I think that's all the questions I had.
1172
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:36,160
Thank you for joining me today.
1173
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:39,040
Want to let people know where they can find you?
1174
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:40,040
Oh, sure.
1175
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:43,840
Yeah, mostly like on Instagram, I guess.
1176
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,200
And yeah, I think that's kind of it, I would say for now.
1177
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:48,200
Okay.
1178
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:51,720
Yeah, I will leave the link in the description.
1179
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:52,720
So yeah, thank you so much.
1180
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:53,720
It was amazing to talk to you.
1181
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:54,720
Cool.
1182
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:55,720
Yeah, thank you so much as well.
1183
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:56,720
This was a lot of fun.
1184
01:15:56,720 --> 01:16:01,240
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.
1185
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:03,840
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.
1186
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:07,000
Otherwise you are a super fake climber.
1187
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:11,360
If you're listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rated it five stars
1188
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:16,440
and you can continue the discussion on the free competition climbing discord linked in
1189
01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:17,440
the description.
1190
01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:26,440
Thanks again for listening.
