28: Stanley & Zulazfar, IFSC Event Delegate & Judge

Oct 14

Another double-guest episode! Stanley is an IFSC event delegate and judge chair, while Zul is officially a newly minted IFSC judge. In this episode, we’ll talk about how to become an IFSC judge, hear about their relationships and interactions with athletes and coaches, and we’ll hear some crazy stories about their judging experiences under pressure and cancelling events due to rain like in Keqiao.

Show Notes

Guest links:

Stanley’s Instagram

Zul’s Instagram

Reference links:

Appeal against Sorato during Boulder Finals at SLC 2023

Appeal Form

Stickman (Implied beta) on M1 Boulder Finals at SLC 2023

Bee incident during Speed Finals at SLC 2023

Bonus Content - Matt Groom & Zul on judging at Wujiang 2024

Timestamps

Timestamps of discussion topics

0:00 - Getting back from Paris Olympics

7:31 - Their IFSC Roles

12:35 - Why become an IFSC judge?

20:34 - How to become an IFSC judge

23:46 - The pressure of judging at the IFSC level

26:51 - Being taken advantage of by coaches

31:09 - Messing up an appeal in Salt Lake City

38:44 - Things route setters do that judges HATE

49:19 - The appeals process

53:55 - Judge relationship with coaches

1:01:27 - Giving athletes yellow cards

1:14:06 - Fixing the weather

1:17:28 - Performing a skit at the World Cup opening ceremony

1:20:59 - Why is the rain issue never fixed?

1:26:58 - Belayer protest walk-out & other crazy stories

1:35:56 - Things to be improved in the IFSC

1:42:25 - Discord Q: How different are WCs based on who's organizing them

1:52:11 - Discord Q: Should corporations host world cups instead of national federations?

1:54:20 - Final thoughts, where to find Stanley & Zul

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The coaches will just shout at you, like for no apparent reason, you'll be like,
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what did I do? It wasn't even my fault, you know. Official appeal has money involved.
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So to my knowledge, it's 150 euros, which will be invoiced directly to your national federation.
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In short, they've got somebody with traditional wisdom, which can so-called control the weather.
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So they're like, yeah, it's all fixed. Then we were like, yeah, okay, thank you. But
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the reason we have to cancel the competition was literally if you look at the boulder wall,
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the water is seeping up and you can see that it's literally like the boulder was crying
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through the bolt holes. Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.
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I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to announce another double guest episode with Stanley and
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ZulAsfar. Stanley is an IFSC event delegate and judge chair, while Zul is officially a newly
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minted IFSC judge. In this episode, we'll talk about how to become an IFSC judge, hear about
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their relationships and interactions with athletes, coaches, and route setters. And we'll hear some
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crazy stories about their judging experiences under pressure and canceling events due to rain
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like in Cachao. Hope you enjoy this episode with Stanley and Zul. Stanley, you sort of recently got
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back from Paris and also, I think you said Saudi Arabia? Yeah, Saudi Arabia as well.
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How were those travels? Right. So definitely Paris. Well,
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I think we were in the Olympics for the second time, but Tokyo Olympics due to COVID, we've got
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no spectators. So it was really like a closed door event, but Paris is totally different. You
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have the spectators and you have your friends being there. And then we've got some of the
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coaches who are not involved in the Olympics. Some of the event organizers whom we have been
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working with, and even the para-climbing athletes as well, they were also there.
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So it was really like a gathering. Then of course, work relation-wise, we work with,
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it's a very different dynamics in the Olympics compared to the World Cup. In the World Cup,
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the organizers are applying to host the RFSC event. So we have a list of requirements and
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specifications that they need to follow. But in a multi-sport event, it's totally different.
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Us as the RF goes in as one flight, I'll say a vendor who's trying to showcase the sport to
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the world, but the properties belongs to the multi-sport events organization, in this case,
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the IOC. So the dynamics is quite different. Getting things done requires, I'll say, a bigger
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group approval. So it's really very interesting in terms of working with the different stakeholders
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for the two different events compared to the IFC event.
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I heard from Olga, the route setter, that the organization at the Olympics was way
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better than the organization at any World Cup event that she's ever done.
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Definitely. I will say that in terms of the organization, it is really, really good. But of
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course, timeline, the timeliness is something that is very important because the event is so big,
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so prestigious, and the stakes are really high. Think about the VIP slide, the King of Spain that
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is here. So there are certain things that we need to start to learn to tolerate. Like for example,
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we have access to a lounge for the officials, but the lounge is not open until three days
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before the competition starts. The route setting team is there seven to five days before the
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competition to do route setting. So that means that the days before the lounge was open,
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the route setters actually have some challenges trying to bring in additional drinks and food as
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well. So bringing food in is okay, but you can't really bring a big can of energy drinks inside
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because you'll be stopped by the security. So there are certain challenges which we need to,
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we need to re-encounter and that we need to really try to be a bit more understanding
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and work around for these restrictions. In the World Cup, we are used to sometimes having things
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like, oh, if I need to get something, I go buy, I bring it in, it's fine. But here there is
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restriction, there is accessibility, there is certain limitation, which I would say that if
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you are at a multi-sports event, whether it is the Olympics or the Pan American Games,
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the Asian Games, that would always be this restriction that we have to bear in mind
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with someone who's setting. Maybe in the World Cup, you could, if everybody agrees,
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you probably would be able to set until past midnight. But in multi-sports events, probably
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there would be some certain time restrictions that you need to adhere to. So it could be like,
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you probably need to leave by 12 o'clock. Yeah. Because there could be security
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at the end of each day. So all this has to be coordinated. And when we look at a broader view,
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it's not just us working, but it's like probably 101 teams that is actually working to ensure that
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the event runs. There's a lot of protocols as well, right? So I think I just want to touch
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quickly a bit on the OQS. So I think a couple of people were watching on stream and they were like,
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why do they have tapes all over their uniforms, right? It's like all covering the North Face
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logos and all that. And it's all because of this. It's all protocol. And yeah, and that's like the
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last minute thing. Oh, we can't be showing this, so you better tape it up. So I think it's pretty
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normal in that sense. But of course for Paris, it's slightly different because you already have
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a new set of uniforms. So that, yeah. And I think to touch on that also, actually in the IBSC World
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Cups and all that, they have specifications as to how big your logo can be. So yeah, there are
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different rulings for that. So it's not just, oh, you can just slap one full blockface logo
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on the back and that's it. Okay. And then we'll get into the Olympics a bit more later as well,
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but I guess before we dive too deep into things, what roles do you each have in the IFSC and what
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do you do for your role? For me, I'm an event delegate with the IFSC. So I work closely with
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the event organizing team to manage the climbing competitions. I mainly look at
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the pre-planning, the logistics and facilities of the event. So my work would usually be taking
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place one or two months before the IFSC World Cup takes place. When the event starts,
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it's more for the jury president who will be managing the overall competition. Then during
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the competition, a big part of my role would be working with the broadcasting team and the award
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ceremony team to make sure that everything goes according to the requirements of the IFSC.
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I am the IFSC judge, so nearly third, I guess, this year officially. For the longest time,
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I was doing a lot more continental events. But this year, I've done at least one World Cup,
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going to another one in a couple of weeks' time, for that to be specific.
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Okay, nice.
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Yeah. So basically, I'm the IFSC judge. It's very different from what Stanley does. So he does a lot
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of pre-planning, behind-the-scenes kind of thing. For me, a lot more front-facing. So I deal mainly
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on the fill-out plate, what you call FOP. That's literally the area around the wall,
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the coaches area, every single thing or structure there is under my control. That includes dealing
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with appeals directly with your coaches, right? So primarily, my job would be to supervise the
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national technical officials, or whether you're national judges, and so forth, right?
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So it's more on a supervisory role where they, for let's say, for qualifications and semifinals,
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they typically do the actual judging. I'm just going to oversee, supervise, let's say they have
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any questions, or let's say some coach can tell me and say, hey, I think your spelling is wrong.
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Maybe there's a data input issue or whatsoever, and that's where I will go in to rectify.
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So from a hierarchy point of view, I report to the jury president, which is now an IFSC Level 4
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Judge. And I guess, Stanley, did you used to judge? I thought there was some sort of relation there.
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Right. Yeah. So sorry. So other than being an event delegate for the IFSC, I'm also the chair
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for the IFSC Judge Commission. The Asian Council, the sports department, in the development of
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competitions and officials in Asia. Yeah. So a bit more about me. I was a national judge
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back in 2004 in Singapore. That's where the federation decided to invite then the
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head of the Roots Commission from IFSC. IFSC was still part of UIDA to conduct
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the national judge course. Fast forward one year later,
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the international judge course was organized in Austria. So I went to take
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the course. I passed the test and I had to do two practicum. So you have to cover the project speed
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in two competitions. My lead speed is the youth world championship in Beijing. That was the first
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time where the youth world championship was held in Asia. And then in 2006, I completed my
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world championship in Birmingham, UK. Yeah. So after that, that's where I became an IFSC judge.
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So I came through the IFSC judge track, like what Sue is currently doing. So from
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2016, 2017, I was IFSC jury president. And also in 2021, I became the IFSC event delegate.
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Okay. So we'll get into the timeline of how that works in a bit. But I guess starting from the
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beginning, this is kind of like a volunteer position. So what made you guys interested in
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joining? I'll let you go first. Okay. So it's got quite a long history and story in that sense where
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basically back then. Okay. So you mentioned, Sandy mentioned it started around 2004. That was
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literally the year I started climbing. Literally. All right. That's a good 20 years ago, two decades
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ago. So I started climbing when I was in secondary school, which is your equivalent of a high school,
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I believe. It was just like a co-curricular activity. Just go there and climb. It was
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what an outdoor club kind of thing. And then, so that was a good four years. So once I ended
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that four years of high school, I went to polytechnic. It's like, that's where I got
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my diploma basically. And that was technically where I actually met Stefis. Right. So it's more
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of like, so I mean, aside from timeline itself, so a good six years about after I started climbing.
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So 2008, I was part of the climbing club in polytechnic. So what happened was the one day
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they'll be like, we have a national judges course. It's free. Do you want to attend?
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I'm like, oh, okay, sure. Why not? Like, I mean, it's free. So Singaporeans like, please start.
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And then we're like, okay. So we took it. I think the cohort was pretty huge. There was a good 10,
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15 of us. But ironically, only two of us. So again, I think to your question, I think
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after a while, we've been doing, so once we cleared the national judges course, right,
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so we did what we could, we clocked our mileage. And then over time, we'll be like,
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I think we can kind of see the same for some others. For one, back then, eight years ago,
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two or 10 years ago, the climbing industry was not as commercialized as it is today.
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So it's almost like the only thing you can do. It was the only hobby you can have. It was so
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niche. Everyone was like, oh wow, you're a rock climber, you're a sport climber. Everyone gets
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so excited when they hear about it. But then now we'd be like, everyone's climbing. Now climbing
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is like the new spin class, right? To be really honest, right? But more importantly, I felt that
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on my own, on my personal level, I was thinking like, you know what, if I really invested so much
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time in this, why not just go all the way? And I think from a voluntary perspective, I spent,
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ever since I started working, I spent a good three-quarters of my paid time off,
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or your annual leave, all on climbing competitions. It's a lot of dedication,
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a lot of sacrifice for sure. But I think at the end of the day, it depends on what you want.
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I think some people, to be really honest, I just want to apply and call it a day,
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have fun, jump here, jump there. That's about it. But I think on my end, I think one of the
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most important motivations for me, it's also to bring the sport to the next level.
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I think we always have this issue in Asia specifically, right? We're always trying to
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go after the Europeans, not in a bad way, but the Europeans are always known to be at the top of
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their level for climbing, for example. So we kind of want to reach there to some extent. Of course,
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we have our usual superstars like your Sogato, your Tomoa and all that, but that's on an athlete
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level, but we're looking more on a continent level. So I think it's pushing the standards
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also nationally on a local level. Of course, we're not as big as like the USA, but then
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there's a lot of, I would say there's a lot of resistance to change for sure. Commercial gym
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owners only think about money most of the time. I mean, you are a business owner, I cannot blame
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you, but then to them, it'd be like, how do I balance between making money and also pushing
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the standards of climbing in Singapore, for example. So there's a lot of different variables,
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a lot of factors, but I think more often than not, it's always to push the standards.
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And let's go in.
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Well, so Zhu mentioned earlier, he was studying in Polytechnic. So that's a college in Singapore
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that offers diploma programs. Interestingly, 25 years ago, I was in that position in that same
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college. So climbing was really new back then. We were one of two tertiary institutions
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that were organizing climbing competitions back then. So I started to get involved. We
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have annual competitions, Rockmania. I started to get involved. I was helping out with judging work
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as an assistant. From there, I start to look at climbing, not just as climbing, but as an event
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itself. I got really curious about the concept behind the rules, how the competitions are managed.
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So yeah, I started to really look and start to learn from people that I've known. My mentor,
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Diamwat. So he was back then considered a national judge because he's like the
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pioneer batch who received training from the French Federation. So Singapore invited the
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French Federation to be here to actually conduct training from them. So I had to learn a lot from
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him until the opportunity came that, hey, we are getting, the Federation is getting the
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Rules Commission, Mr. Okay Nelson, to be here to conduct a judge training course.
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And so it's a good opportunity for me to actually learn more.
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So throughout the process, it's always about trying to learn more and
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seeing how I can contribute, but without really a clear destination at night. It's like, I'm just
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happy to be involved because from the training course, from the competitions, you meet people
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who share the same interests with you. You work with people who are aligned to develop the sports
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of climbing. So that was the thing that just kept me going, going, and going until now.
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For people who may be interested in getting involved in some way,
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do you have to know someone or is there a clear process for how to,
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I guess, become involved at an IFSC level or a judging level?
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To start off with judging, I would suggest that go to the Provincial National Federation. I believe
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National Federation would have organized some training course. They would probably have a
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development roadmap for the judges, the skills framework. That's the best way to start.
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Different federations would have different levels of the judge structure. We over here in Singapore,
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we have two. Now that the US, you have five different levels. So depending on the geographic
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location and the requirement. So for the candidate to be eligible for the IFSC course,
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you probably would need to be at the highest level. I know that every now and then, IFSC would
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communicate to the national federations about any upcoming national IFSC judge courses.
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We had two this year. Was it this year or last year? Last year, one was held in Singapore for
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the Asian and Oceania prospects, and the other one was held in Pan America in preparation for
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the Santiago games as well. Yeah. So the national federation should have the information. Then they
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will then look into the list of officials. They probably would have an evaluation system in place
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to evaluate and see who can I send for this training course. If you cleared the training
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course, you will have a theoretical course and there will be some internship where you will be
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working as a trainee IFSC judge in the competitions. If the assessment is favorable,
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then that's where you become an IFSC judge level one. So the level one IFSC judge would allow you
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to be working as equivalent of IFSC judge in a continental event. Level two would be a jury
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president level working in the continental events. For the IFSC judges that are nominated for the
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World Cup, they are sitting at level three and the jury presidents at level four.
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And Zul, you're kind of, I guess, newer to doing official IFSC judging.
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Is there anything that kind of surprised you about judging at the IFSC level?
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The difference between IFSC and any other level is, of course,
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we always train our judges in such a way that we tell them, like, you are running a show
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and you are running a show because why you have live streaming, right? It's, you'll
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scroll up, you'll scroll up on the live stream for the world to see, literally. And I think
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that is one biggest factor with regards to all the differences of all the events. Of course,
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sure you can see nationals may have their own live screenings and so on and so forth, but
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I think the spectators and online viewers looking or watching your live stream or
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work out is a lot more significant, obviously, right? So, and it's also where you don't end up
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becoming a laughingstock online for some reason. Well, there's not, I don't think there's too many
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opportunities to become a, to really mess up too bad as a judge, are there?
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Yes. Well, I guess, yeah, maybe.
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But I mean, I think we can talk a lot, a bit more later about appeals and all that. I think that
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would be the most obvious way of screwing up, right? But I think at the IBSC level, it's,
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you're dealing with people who you've never met. Of course, if I'm from Asia,
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obviously I've met Asian coaches, right? But then you're dealing with the Americans,
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the Europeans, China, all the different continents and all that. So these people
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are literally strangers to you. So you don't know them, they don't know you.
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And it's been, I wouldn't say it's a, it's an open secret in that sense, but rather,
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they probably tested, right? They will try to see whether, oh, is this, so this guy is new.
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So can I actually take advantage of him? Like, can I make his life a little bit simple?
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Sketchy. Okay.
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Yeah. So you learn how Stanley's laughing. So that's evident that it happens, right? And I
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think that happens throughout. I mean, to put it very, very bluntly, your, it gets,
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it's really unforgiving. It can be, it's a lot of pressure. Every competition has its
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pressure for sure. But on a World Cup level, I think it's immense, right? Because, I mean,
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maybe it's also the, it's a personal thing. Like I don't want to make mistakes. It's a
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self-imposed kind of thing. But then, I mean, I personally always try to strive for the best
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anyway. So, yeah, it's a lot of things to worry about, basically.
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Yeah. Do you remember a time where you felt like a coach was taking advantage of you,
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or trying to pull something?
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Oh, yeah, sure. But sure, yeah. I think it's not, let's say,
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taking advantage in that sense where I think they will constantly breathe down your neck.
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They will be always asking for certain things, like, hey, can you do this? Can you do that?
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They probably tell you this, ask you to see whether will you actually abide to it, or will
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you actually, I guess, contest and go against his words and say, no, we're not going to do that,
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that sort of thing. I mean, basically, they're trying to see whether you can be a pushover,
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right? And then at the same time, there are certain instances where they'll be like,
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say, hey, this is a high-profile sitcom. Why are you doing this? It's like, there's a reason why
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I'm doing this, you know? And then at the same time, there are coaches who will just shout at
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you, like for no apparent reason, you'd be like, what did I do? It wasn't even my fault, you know?
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But it's just in the spur of the moment, right? At the end of the day, we have to understand that
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I think the worst thing is we cannot take it personally. And I think that is a very key,
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important trait that judges should have because at the end of the day, these people are coaches,
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they are in charge of athletes and they want the best out of the athletes. It's a condition,
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for goodness sake. It's like, it's not the carnival, right? So, and then of course,
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they will be shouting at you and all that, but then once the event is done, then you'd be like,
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hey, you can talk to them as well. Okay, that's nice.
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And that's the beauty of it, right? But then of course, sometimes there needs to be that,
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you could say you may start on the wrong foot for some of them, right? But then after that,
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you'd be like, then maybe after the call, maybe you can talk to them, kind of iron out the things
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and say, oh, I see you did this because of this, this, this. Sometimes, because at the end of the
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day, you have to understand that they are also kind of gated at where they are, where they're
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seated. They have a coach's ear and they only see whatever they see, right? They don't know
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our perspective and neither do we, right? We could have the freedom to walk all over the place,
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but then they're only in one place. And considering some of them are in isolation for a couple of
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hours, they'd be like grumpy old men or whatever. So maybe not old, some of them are quite young.
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So anyway, you get my point, right? So yeah. You probably have more grumpy men than women.
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So is there one more event? Yeah. So I think the pressure, I think if I had to summarize the
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pressure on, at doing IFA Sydney Awards, it's immense. You don't want to screw up, that's one.
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And then at the end of the day, you want to have a good show. But more importantly, because for me,
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people always say that like, oh, okay, you're an IFSC judge and all that. But then I say,
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you don't know the amount of things I sacrificed to get to where I am. That's one. And doesn't quite
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help when you're training under this guy. So it's like, oh, so you know Stanley? It's like,
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yeah, you know Stanley? Yes, I do. And then you'd be like, oh, Stanley. And then suddenly immediately
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for some reason, there's this ceiling of expectations, which I've never seen before.
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And then you'd be like, oh, okay, I guess I have to meet that ceiling there. Yeah. So that's one
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thing that a lot of people don't realize. But to be clear, I got to where I am based on my own
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merits as well. Right. So he did what he could, but there's no nepotism or whatever. I just want
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to make it clear on record. Okay. So Stanley's tough. Gotcha. Yeah. Do you remember any times
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where you feel like you made a wrong call or that you messed up? So I think for me, before I got
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promoted to IFSC, I had to do two assessments. So one of it was the Salt Lake City competition
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World Cup in 2023, last year. And also one multi-sport event, which is our continental
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games, which is Asian Games, last year as well. So two events as part of my assessment.
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Largely, I would say Asian Games are still okay.
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But Salt Lake City, I wouldn't say it's a swap, let's say, because actually there was an appeal
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involved, right? So I'll send you the timestamps later, I already have it prepared. So it was
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during the men's boulder finals, and then of all people, it had to be Soweto, right?
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First time seeing this down the circuit, and then anyway. So it wasn't, okay, objectively,
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it's a normal appeal. Objectively, it's a normal appeal because why it's just like, okay,
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the judge made a wrong call, which was me. I can admit that. But then what made it a bit more
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serious in that sense was because the commentators spent like a good
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three to five minutes talking about how the feeling was. Yeah, so I think no shit on the
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commentators for sure. Megan Martin was the co-co-commentary, right? So she was saying,
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oh no, I'm a bit surprised why the judge did not produce blah, blah, blah. And then, of course,
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she did justify and said like, you know, look, I'll join this and all that. And it's just perfectly
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fine. It's just that when I look at the score screen, I was like bloody hell, it's a good five
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minutes talking about my opinion. But what was interesting is that, so that was one main thing.
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It kind of bound me for sure. But I think the key thing that happened was, so basically the
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gist of it, the gist of the appeal was that, so I went to do a four point start, but it was so fast
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that I didn't catch it. So I deemed it as a proper four point start. So later on, when you look at
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the video, you will see the actual screen, which is on a one time speed, which is normal. And then
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there's another timestamp which they give on the slow-mo version. And even after looking at the
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slow-mo version, it's kind of like, okay. But long story short, what happened was, why I didn't
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calm him down was because at my angle, I saw him as a proper four point start.
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So my start of judging, four finals, so for context, qualification, semifinals, IFSC judge,
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do not do the judging. Physically, you're doing more on a supervisory role, but on a final,
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you need to do the extra judging. So at least at one time in Salt Lake City, SLC, what we did was,
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so I was judging with all the other USKC judges. So I believe, I'm not too sure whether you know,
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but they have this system where you have a primary, secondary, tertiary judge. So there
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were four of us, in fact, five, I think, and these are all senior judges together with me
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judging, right? So my style, for finals at least, it differs from judges to judges, obviously.
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So my style is like, okay, the moment the SC gets a zone, depending on the attempt at Salt Lake City,
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I will just voice out and say, zone on two, meaning that the person gets a zone on the
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second attempt, because sometimes your attempt might be mismatched. Maybe the top was three,
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mine was two, one, so on and so forth, right? So that's my style. So when that thing happened,
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so obviously we were also taken aback. I was like, eh, what's with the delay? And then I was like,
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okay, next thing you know, I was like that. And at that point in time, the JV was team hatched
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for Britain, and it was like, came out, it was like, there's going to be a build, so you're going
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to send my like, okay. So I'm like, in my head, I was like, shit, which build is this? And then
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after that, when they came out, whether when he reclaimed and all that, I just took that brief
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moment to check with my judges, like, do you actually see him start? Then all of us agreed
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that we saw him start properly. It's just that it was so fast to the naked eye, you couldn't see.
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I'm like, okay, I mean, to be fair, the JP was reviewing the video on a CCTV, which had like,
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I don't know, 10 times slow-mo function, which, I mean, come on, man, if I could be a Terminator,
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then yeah, maybe I should do that. Other than that, but you know, at the end of the day,
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this kind of things, shit happens. And I wouldn't say I'm happy. I'm okay to admit that I
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potentially did that mistake or maybe I did that mistake, but I think it's sometimes it's almost
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inevitable, but then more importantly, well, what's the takeaway, right? So what do you learn
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from that? So I was also considering looking at the stream itself. And now I was realizing,
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actually, it could be potentially because of the position we were sitting, right? So like,
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let's say the wall is here. We are seated at maybe a 45 degree angle. It could be from the stream,
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it looked like it didn't start. So that could be it. Or maybe the solution was just to have
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me sit on the left side, for example. And moving forward, that's what I've been doing since day one.
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So it's like, yeah, you kind of learn from all this. So yeah, it's like, well, it happens.
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Can't wait to watch it back and see what it looks like.
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Yeah. Stanley, anything from your side on any time you fucked up?
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Well, I think judging-wise, it's been a long time because I haven't really been doing a lot of
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judging. If you ask me now, I don't really recall. But honestly, every time after a competition,
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on the way to the airport, on the plane, I've always been just reflecting on myself like,
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okay, is there something that I could have done better in this case?
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Yeah. So even by working with the stakeholders, it's going back as, okay, I think this decision,
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is this the right decision? Would I have done it better if given the chance?
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So yeah, that is constantly that process. But even if there's things that I think that I did
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right, again, it's also to just think about it. Yeah. So for me, at this point, not so much
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judging related decisions that I can call. Yeah.
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Okay. So judging is also kind of closely connected to route setting because how they
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set up the zones and the tops kind of makes a difference in terms of how you're going to judge
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it. Is there anything that you hate that route setters do?
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Wow. That's a really interesting question.
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Please excuse this brief intermission, but I've gotten a few requests for this. So I just wanted
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To be honest, too many coordinations. When you have a coordination group, there's a lot of jumping or
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jump starts specifically, and maybe it's just a preference thing. So it's like we have a
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score sheet, or maybe nationally we have a physical score sheet, but then on the IFC level,
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you have a template, right? So it'd be like, each time a person jumps, it's like slapping and
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tapping and tapping and tapping. It's like 20 different attacks. So that's probably one of it.
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But I think largely, maybe Stanley would have a different perspective on this, but because I'm
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working on the realm itself, I think it's not inherently something that I dislike or I hate,
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but I think it's more of finding that compromise most of the times. So it could be as simple as,
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because sometimes the route setters tend to think of it from a move's point of view. Like,
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okay, this move, that move. But for us, we need to make that zone, or let's say for lead, right?
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It has to be tangible because you have to show or rather allocate a specific point or number to it.
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So some of them will be like, oh, okay, but this move, I need to do this, I need to match,
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and then therefore this becomes a dual hold. For dual holds, basically the judge is like, man,
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because the moment that dual hold gets broken, it's going to change the world effectively,
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right? Of course, it might be a simple change, just a reduction of one number, but then
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once appeals come in, and then you'll be like, oh, okay, so there's another hold. But long story
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short, I think there are certain things that they do in terms of word setting where I think they,
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again, I think Solid City had this issue where they tried to do some kind of indication on the
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route about how they should start the route. I can't find that video. I need to find it.
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So basically, I think they wanted somebody to kind of do a four-point start,
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like in a handstand kind of start. I don't know how that works, but so what they did was they
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fixed four or five screw-on holes in the shape of a man, like an inverted man doing a handstand.
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It's almost like an indication of how to start. I don't remember this at all.
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I didn't know about it, interestingly, because I was so busy running around.
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And then only after the event, they were saying, oh, actually, they actually changed the route.
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I'm like, what do you mean they changed the route? I was there the whole time. How did I not know?
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Maybe once I get that footage, I'll probably send it to you. But sometimes they do things
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very funnily or in their own ways, I guess. Yeah. But I think no, no, no props to them for sure.
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They have an office job for sure. And this is also why they get paid a lot more than we do.
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But I think fundamentally, I don't hate them, to be really honest. It's always nice working with
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them. I think it's always the compromises that you have to take. Like, okay, can we do this instead?
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Can we tape it? Can we tape the zone on the channel hole instead of the volume? For example,
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maybe, you know, it could be the nuances of certain things. Like, what if I do this move,
368
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:54,800
my leg swings and I touch on this, can this be avoided? Or even down to a simple as,
369
00:43:54,800 --> 00:44:01,280
can we shift that mic nearer? Would it hit the athlete's interface? That sort of thing. So,
370
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:07,680
it's a lot of communication involved, but I wouldn't say inherently that's the thing that
371
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:17,840
you realize. Yeah. Well, working with the group setter, sometimes people may deem it as what I
372
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:29,040
call the full relationship thing. We're here trying to make sure that we follow the protocol,
373
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,880
the requirements, the rules. The setters are a bunch of really creative people. I really admire
374
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:46,320
their creativity. So, it's more of like, where does this creativity has a limit? Because what
375
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:53,840
Zhou said earlier, they're trying their best to come up with original moves. We're actually judging,
376
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:59,520
we're actually joking about, are there any more original moves that the setters can make?
377
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:04,720
Yeah. So, yes, it's really cool if you really can come up with something that is unique,
378
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:12,320
really original. But there are times where things get a bit off, and even to some of the coaches,
379
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:18,640
it's like, hey, what is this? This is not really climbing. It's not hardcore. It's a bit like
380
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:29,360
circus. So that is where sometimes we need to come in and again, be the moderator. Sometimes
381
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:36,480
to check like, okay, do you think this is appropriate? Likewise, speaking for the jury
382
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:42,240
president and the judges, it's like, okay, the starting position, the zone, is that appropriate?
383
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:49,280
Or can we just make some changes to the zone? Maybe this is not that easy to judge,
384
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:54,800
or we foresee certain problems with the zone. Are we able to move around?
385
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:59,520
And actually having a discussion with them, I would say most of them are actually quite
386
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:08,320
self-dating. Yeah. So working with the IFSC setters is quite interesting because, well,
387
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:13,120
you think that they are a bunch of people who's always working with metal screws and looking at
388
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:19,040
wood, right? And maybe they think like, well, actually they are not. They don't just go around
389
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:24,640
just doing resetting work. I find that a lot of them are actually very insightful.
390
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:29,360
They are very knowledgeable. Some of them, we had very interesting discussion about talking
391
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:35,520
about the sustainability of the flamming industry because, you know, with the holes and everything,
392
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:40,480
after 10 years, if you have a gym after 10 years, after 15 years, what do you do about those?
393
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:47,760
How to, yeah, can it be recycled? So the IFSC setters, I realized that a lot of them are
394
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:56,720
actually thinking very far ahead, yeah, beyond their technical skills. What I realized are the
395
00:46:56,720 --> 00:47:06,160
challenges of working with receptors that are starting out and are starting to developing
396
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:13,840
into or aspiring to be IFSC receptors. Because many a times what they see is they just see
397
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:25,840
what is on YouTube, what's on the big screen, and they start to mimic without really thinking or
398
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:34,960
asking why. And that's where problem comes in. It's like when we are doing in local competitions,
399
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:39,280
when we realize something that's a bit off, we start to ask question. It's like,
400
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:49,760
it can't really have a concrete rationale to why they do that. And makes it very difficult,
401
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:59,040
especially when it is something that pertains to safety, where do you think this is safe?
402
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:04,800
Example, if you have a volume, you only have up and the volume is on the sidewalk, and you only
403
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:11,760
have half the volume secured on the climbing wall, and the other half that is exposed. To me,
404
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:22,080
it is a safety hazard that could have been avoided. So this is not talking about a
405
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:30,800
technical, sorry, this is not about just a route safety issue anymore. It's about a general safety
406
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:38,080
issue. So people say, oh, but so-and-so does this, so-and-so does that, so-and-so stack up volumes
407
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:48,560
on volumes on volumes. Yeah, but when you ask people, you realize that they probably only know
408
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:55,440
this much, and that is actually a challenge with us. And sometimes when we try to talk to them,
409
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:03,920
they will probably look at us, oh, so are you trying to impose what you have learned from
410
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,720
IFSC competitions to the local competition, but it's two different standards. So it's like,
411
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:11,680
we are not talking about standards here, but we are talking about general safety.
412
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:19,280
Yeah, so that is the challenge that I realized working with new aspiring route setters.
413
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:24,800
So yeah, that's sort of like the relationship with route setters. And then in terms of your
414
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:30,000
relationship with coaches, I guess, first of all, how does the appeals process work?
415
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:35,120
And then we'll get into your angry coach stories or whatever you have there.
416
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:40,640
And maybe I'll take this one. So yeah, so okay, I think first and foremost,
417
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:50,080
on any level, at the very least, you have two types of appeals. One, your verbal appeal,
418
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:56,560
or rather unofficial appeal, and your official appeal. So verbal appeals are typically
419
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:05,840
during the round itself. So let's say during qualifications, they realize their athletes got
420
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:11,680
wrong score, maybe not number of attempts different, so on and so forth. So the coach
421
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:19,760
can come to me and say, I think there's a mistake with my climber. So I think you should be getting,
422
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:25,520
let's say if it's a lead event, and she should be getting a plus, and they'll be like, oh, okay.
423
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:33,360
So sometimes it is an actual error on our end, or the judges end, because it's manual input
424
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:38,320
on the tablet, right? So privacy to use the tablet, which links to the verticalized system.
425
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:45,040
So it could be like, oh, actually I forgot to put a plus inside. Obviously on my end,
426
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:51,280
so I have to check, is this 25 plus, or is it 25? Your paper puts 25 plus, but on this
427
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:57,120
live score, it says 25. So that's where I rectify, right? So that is your kind of verbal appeal. So
428
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:04,160
it's a bit more casual, right? Or it could be as simple as, oh, I think that delay is giving too
429
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:14,320
much slack. So that counts as verbal appeal in that sense, right? So I think for that context,
430
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:20,240
in the rules, there's also the safety appeal, which can be done by three coaches,
431
00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:25,600
separate coaches. If they write in and say there is a safety appeal, we must act on it. The JPSO,
432
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:32,720
right? Basically, this doesn't happen most of the time. Anyways, so officials, then you have
433
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:38,080
your official appeal. So official appeal is basically after the event ends, that's where
434
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:46,800
you require to submit your appeal form with your name, which country you're representing.
435
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:53,440
If there's a particular box, I can send you a link where to see this actual form, the ones
436
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:59,920
that the coaches are actually using it. You have to indicate the reason why. So and so, let's say,
437
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:09,760
for example, using the example, my athlete so-and-so should be getting a 25 plus. And on top of that,
438
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:17,440
they have to quote the article number in the rulebook based on whatever result. So let's say,
439
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:27,600
oh, based on article number so-and-so, the primers shifted, there was a change in mass of
440
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:32,640
heaps, moving the direction of the route, progressive movement of the route, so on, so forth.
441
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:40,320
And therefore, we should be getting a 25 plus, for example. And then you have to sign and submit.
442
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:48,960
So official appeal for qualification and semifinals is within five minutes. For finals,
443
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:53,840
it's immediate. So for finals, because it's podium, right, you're talking like money,
444
00:52:53,840 --> 00:53:00,960
he pays money and so on, so forth. So more often than not, some athletes, some coaches,
445
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:07,760
they will tell you in advance, I'm going to appeal. I'm like, okay, then because that appeal
446
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:14,800
decision would be against my decision, so I wouldn't be entertaining, right? So what happens
447
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:20,960
would be, some of them will give you the heads up, that's one. Some of them will be already
448
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:34,080
written down there. It's like DHL. So official appeal has money involved. So to my knowledge,
449
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,760
it's 150 euros, which will be- Oh, that's pretty expensive.
450
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:46,640
Yes, it's about, it's $150, which will be invoiced directly to your national federation
451
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:55,600
once it's approved. So in that event where the appeal fails, it's rejected basically,
452
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:00,880
you lose the 150 euros. And so then what's your relationship like
453
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:06,320
with coaches? Do you feel like they ever hold grudges against you if they remember who you are?
454
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,800
Do you know of any coaches that will just cause you a lot of trouble?
455
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:18,560
I think we are still alive here. So I guess that the relationship should be considered quite cordial.
456
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:30,480
It depends. So I think, again, to be fair, I'm new, so I'm still building, I'm still on the way
457
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,440
to build that rapport. I mean, unlike Stanley, he already knows all these people and he's also
458
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:41,360
not really doing the judging part. But for me, I'm still making my way there. I'm trying to make
459
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:47,440
came to contact, network with them, talk to them. It's my first time to introduce myself after the
460
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:53,600
con and all that. But thankfully, there are separate coaches, which obviously from the Asian
461
00:54:53,600 --> 00:55:00,720
region, because every other time we look at them. So let's say for Team Japan, everyone loves Team
462
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:10,400
Japan. Obviously, I know the coaches, they also know me. And sometimes I don't believe I have any
463
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:18,320
needs, or rather no coach sent to have any guys just with me, from what I know. But I think the
464
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:26,560
relationship-wise can be easy if you know them. That's the thing, because I think there's a lot
465
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:31,680
of relationship involved in that sense where not like a boyfriend-girlfriend kind of thing, but
466
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:38,240
more like mutual respect. Because sometimes they can hook up to you and be like,
467
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:48,560
Oh wait, my guy forgot his accreditation card. Okay, sure. But you don't immediately penalize
468
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:53,360
them in that sense. You know, like you kind of, okay, you take note that I'll do what I can,
469
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:59,520
you know. And then for example, I'll give you a very clear example of what happened
470
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:06,720
in, again, Sonic City, again with Team Japan. So Higoshi-san, the head coach for Team Japan,
471
00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:16,000
was sitting at the bench, one of the coaches. So one of his athletes, the Japanese athlete, was
472
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:24,480
gonna talk the route, although I was climbing, there was a side wall that had a boundary tape
473
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:33,680
right below the handhold. So what happened was like, my judge went up, and obviously she went
474
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:39,920
over the line, so obviously had to call her up down, then my judge came to tell her, call her
475
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:46,480
off basically, right. And for some strange reason, I happened to make eye contact with him,
476
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:55,040
and all I did was like, lying like that, he was like, life goes on after that. It can be that
477
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,760
simple, you know, but there are courses where you'll be like, there's blood on the towel,
478
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,600
why are you not cleaning it? You'll be like, okay, let's go, I'm not a cleaner, but okay,
479
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:14,160
I will work on that. It can get very different for certain coaches, but yeah, I think it's
480
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:19,360
trying to find that balance, I guess. Most of them are trying to get that balance to me.
481
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:34,880
For me, my current work is really, let's say, doing things that make the coaches' lives a bit easier
482
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:47,440
and manageable. So things that I'm looking at is accessibility to the facilities, for example,
483
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:53,920
doing properties like Forbidden, the World Championship last year. We've got so many
484
00:57:53,920 --> 00:58:00,960
assets, we've got so many coaches, team officials, but again, the coach corridor is a little bit
485
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:09,840
so differently. We can't always have everybody in, likewise the isolation area as well.
486
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:16,560
So that's where having to, my job, my role is to sit down with the organizing committee to really
487
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:22,960
work out, to find out what's the best solution that we could do, because if the space is not
488
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:30,000
big enough, then we unfortunately have to limit the number of officials to be in so that
489
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:39,600
all countries can be in that area. So it's a lot about crowd control, access management for me,
490
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:49,600
making sure that the facilities are met. So definitely I have to be able to be
491
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:58,640
trying to strike a win-win between the organizer and the coaches. Sometimes they can understand,
492
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:08,000
but sometimes it's not easy. But again, I can imagine why they need certain things, for example.
493
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:20,080
So that is the part that is always a challenge for me in competition. After evaluating,
494
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:27,360
if I have to say no, I'm sure I have to say no. If I could work something out,
495
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:35,040
I try to work something out. For example, this year, what was the first event again?
496
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:44,000
Kejian Ao Workout. Yeah. So say the security was really strict.
497
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,240
I was there. Yeah.
498
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:52,960
Your umbrellas. Yeah. Umbrellas, water bottles, everything has to be left outside the gate.
499
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,800
So it's like, yeah, the coaches were in. They can't have umbrellas.
500
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:03,280
But you could have rain jacket. Yeah, but I can use a rain jacket for our video cameras.
501
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,760
It's like, okay, yes, you make a point. So I have to go and talk to the umbrella and say,
502
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:12,880
look, we need umbrella. Because they have to do that and they have to cover it.
503
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:19,840
So we have that discussion and finally, okay, everybody, you can take your umbrella in so
504
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:28,480
everybody's happy. So there are things like this that I have to go with and resolve it.
505
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,080
So it could be something that's very minute, but actually it's quite significant.
506
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:39,520
So yeah, so my role has taken quite a very different role from that. And also I do my
507
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:45,680
role well, probably they have a better experience prior to the round starts that may translate to
508
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,760
them feeling a bit better and a bit friendlier to our friend here.
509
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:54,400
Yeah, it sounds like you get a lot of abuse.
510
01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:03,280
But to be fair, to be honest, they are really very nice. I mean, to be able to challenge
511
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:10,880
the judges and to make the judges scratch their head and watch the video over and over again,
512
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:19,280
I think there is merit to what they are fighting for. And with that comes a lot of knowledge. So
513
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:26,080
again, I really admire them that they are not just coaching, coaching, coaching, but they know
514
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:30,400
the rules well to be able to bring it up for discussion.
515
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:35,840
Yeah. Do you have much interaction with the athletes in terms of abuse?
516
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:44,160
I think abuse is the hardest part. But I think we, again, again, again, again, I think it's
517
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:53,920
always in school. So I think there have been miscommunications for sure. Right. So like,
518
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:58,480
sometimes like you say something and then another person says something and you'd be like,
519
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:04,320
what happened? Right. So, and then they started, you know, doing a tantrum and of course,
520
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:09,120
I can be that asshole and give them a yellow card, but obviously I'm not going to do that.
521
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:17,280
How does that ever happen? So far I have not given. So I've been told that I'm a bit soft
522
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:21,920
on giving yellow cards. You can ask Tyler for that. So Tyler Maltin said that. So anyway,
523
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:30,800
but I think my point is, if you can kind of mitigate it first, then let's do that.
524
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:43,040
I believe in that prophecy. So I think a good example would be again Salt Lake City. A lot of
525
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:49,360
things that happened in Salt Lake City. My first ever World Cup. Good experience for sure. So I
526
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:55,200
think, so what happened was, it was during the speed event. So one of the Italian players. So it
527
01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:05,440
was the practice, well, so before qualifications right. So it's pretty standard that if you climb,
528
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:11,520
once you fall, when I say fall, you're off the wall, your feet pass the ground, that's the end
529
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:18,000
of your climb. For some strange reason, I don't know why, if any of the coaches are saying please
530
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:23,680
tell them to only stop climbing okay. Because for some strange reason, a lot of people, before they
531
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:30,240
think it's a practice, the moment they tap, they go up again. That's not allowed. And that's also
532
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:34,240
one of the parts where I think the Spanish coach shouting at me, saying why are they calling me
533
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:38,800
again? It's not the rules, they cannot be calling me again. And you get a lot of shit because of
534
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:46,240
that. Of course to be fair, yeah, I couldn't wait in time, but of course after that, I went to the
535
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:53,520
athlete and say you cannot do this, if you're a yellow belt because that's disobedience basically.
536
01:03:53,520 --> 01:04:04,480
But so that was it. So the context of BIT is about athletes climbing despite falling,
537
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:09,200
not climbing again despite falling. So what happened to this Italian climber? So this
538
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:16,640
Italian athlete was like, so he came, so after that, a group of people was telling,
539
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:21,360
so after that incident happened basically, I told my officials, I said those at the cold zone,
540
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:28,800
I told them okay, they cannot climb. I said after they finish the attempt, they cannot do a re-attempt,
541
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:33,680
right, it's only one attempt basically. So next thing you know, this Italian dude came out and
542
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:38,160
they climb and they came down and then he climbed again, then I was like what the hell is this guy
543
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:44,720
doing? I literally told this guy not to climb. So and then I was like yo, I told you not to climb,
544
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:49,840
why are you climbing again? Then he started, I said your guy told me he can't climb. Then I was like
545
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:59,040
who? So I went back to the cold zone, so I was asking, did we tell them to climb again?
546
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:06,880
Then he was like no, I told them they can't climb. Then, wait, wait, wait, then after that,
547
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:11,680
it became like a three-way conversation. So I was talking to my cold zone IC and I was talking to
548
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:16,960
this stallion dude, I was like you tell me who's the person who tell you you can't climb? Then he
549
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:22,320
pointed to my cold zone and I was like did you tell him? So in it I was like, I'm like a, I don't
550
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:27,200
know, a therapist between two fighting couples or whatever you want to call it, but and then he was
551
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:34,800
like yeah, you told me I can climb. I said no, I told you can't climb. So it was an issue of
552
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:45,840
pronunciation. So you know how you say C-A-N apostrophe T, that guy thought was can as in
553
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:51,280
C-A-N. Then I was like you know what, so I told my cousin and she was like can we just say you
554
01:05:51,280 --> 01:06:00,000
can't climb? So and all that, yeah it's this kind of things, it's so trivial, it's funny,
555
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:08,960
but then you know how that kind of snowballed something else. So it's just an initial
556
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:17,360
articulation I guess. So yeah I think athletes wise and as large as possible I think as judges
557
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:26,560
or officials and this, I think we are also trained to keep our distance from them. So that kind of
558
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:32,400
explains why we don't as if the unknown best is going to get a lot of abuse from them. They kind
559
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:38,160
of make like verbal tantrums like you can say why is that not the zone or why is it not the top. I
560
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:44,400
think that's pretty normal, but then even in isolation that we keep our distance. We want
561
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:49,040
to talk to them after the event, I think that's fine, but as much as possible we don't want to
562
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:55,040
appear to the public, to coaches as though we give some kind of favoritism,
563
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,680
because at the end of the day we have to be neutral, right? So we cannot, same reason why
564
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:06,240
we cannot cheer when they talk, we have to keep our faces straight and blank as possible, so yeah.
565
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:07,040
Yeah, is that hard?
566
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,560
Oh yes, yeah. It's like, yeah.
567
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:16,720
Yeah, I kind of forgot that there's like yellow cards because I guess I never
568
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:24,800
see that happen. Is that just given out for like bad behavior or like unsportsmanlike
569
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:32,320
stuff? I remember during the Olympics, there was like a shot of Luka Pudger like
570
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:37,520
punching the wall. Is that like yellow card worthy?
571
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:47,200
If you are showing unsportsmanlike behavior, that will constitute to a yellow card.
572
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:58,880
The most basic of a yellow card infringement would be not obeying the instructions of
573
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:10,000
the IMSC judge. Example, you have been called to get ready at the court zone. You are not there.
574
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:17,200
The IMSC judge approaches you and tells you that you need to go to the court zone now
575
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:26,000
because you have less than five minutes to get ready for the border. And if you are not moving,
576
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:36,560
then that could give you enough reasons for the IMSC judge to issuance a yellow card.
577
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:47,920
Then when she said it is really unsportsmanlike behavior, again, hitting the wall. To what
578
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:53,840
extent are you hitting the wall? Are you just taking a step on the wall? Are you really kicking
579
01:08:53,840 --> 01:09:00,720
it so hard? Or are you kicking a chalk back to the audiences? I think that is something that
580
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:08,400
probably you will be able to see in some photos or videos. So that is unsportsmanlike behavior.
581
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:14,640
Again, the degree of the unsportsmanlike behavior, is it something that you look at it, it's like,
582
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:20,400
okay, this is definitely unsportsmanlike behavior, you should not do that, or what. But there are
583
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:26,720
times that because it shows the emotion. And again, that could be something that we could just
584
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:34,400
control your emotions, for example. If we think that this is still something that's tolerable.
585
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:39,200
Again, it is a fine line, I think we will still want to be always going out,
586
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:47,360
showing Milo card to everyone, right? And the timing is really a display
587
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:58,080
of emotions, whether it might not be, as long as it's within, as long as it is tolerable,
588
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:05,360
it will probably be, yeah. The profanities is like the number one conflict, I said,
589
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:10,480
over the phone, it's like on screen you can see it, it's like, you know, they will,
590
01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:14,880
but then you can teleport. Is that not allowed or? Yeah, definitely it's not allowed. So
591
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:22,160
most of the time if I hear it, I was like, uh, language. Yeah, it's like, you understand,
592
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:26,880
you want to empathize with them, but then you have to do their job. We have to do our job,
593
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:32,640
and at the end of the day, again, you know, this kind of thing will take up, you know, the mics
594
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:40,800
are all over. Oh, true, yeah. Yeah, so I think you'd be surprised, I think even coming out onto
595
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:47,680
the wall without your BIP number also warrants you a yellow card. Right, yeah, okay, that makes
596
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:57,760
sense, I guess. Yeah. The yellow card that I've given is due to, interestingly, different sets
597
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:07,200
of uniforms being worn by athletes of the same country. So you probably have like three or four
598
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:14,960
athletes, maybe they'd wear two different versions of the uniform. That's not allowed, but the other
599
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:21,200
one, they're all wearing the same uniforms, but suddenly you see someone, one athlete has maybe
600
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:28,240
another two logos plastered on the uniform. That's not allowed because the uniform is standardized.
601
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:36,400
Well, that's not really something they can just like go and change really quick,
602
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:48,400
can they? It is something that probably, as long as they can change it before the competition starts,
603
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:56,400
as long as they are not out in the field of play in different uniforms, then that's fine.
604
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:01,040
I can't imagine why they would wear the wrong uniform unless it was just like by accident and
605
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:07,520
they didn't bring the right one. Some of them, what happened would be like,
606
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:14,320
hey, maybe the federation has changed the uniform. So you've got two athletes, both of them for some
607
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:22,160
logistical reason. One is not getting a new set of uniform and the other one has a new set of
608
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:30,880
uniform. And some in the past, some athletes would be like, okay, take out additional logos that is
609
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:40,560
sort of like their personal answers. So if we see it, sometimes during isolation,
610
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:49,440
we would just ask like, this is not the uniform that you're wearing when you're going around the
611
01:12:49,440 --> 01:12:54,480
field to play, right? So just to gauge that. So X hasn't mind it. So someone said, oh no,
612
01:12:54,480 --> 01:13:01,920
this is a watch. I will change it. Yeah. If not, then it will be like, no, this is the only one I
613
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:10,160
have to ask. Then you know that you are not allowed to, everybody in the team has to have
614
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:15,200
the same uniform. Then we have to find a way, they have to find a way. It's like, okay, you have to
615
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:24,320
find a way, right, to get that new uniform. Either the two of you rotate the uniform,
616
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:30,400
or maybe the other person has a spare set, for example. So that the problem solving will be
617
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:35,840
up to them. For us, it will be, okay, when you are at the field, we should be looking at everybody
618
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:41,520
in a standardised uniform. If not, then we have to issue a yellow card. And then it goes into,
619
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:46,560
if it's a different uniform, then we have to start to look into it, which one is the right one,
620
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:52,960
which we actually have a file where federations will submit the uniform for us. So we have to,
621
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:57,120
okay, this one is the right one. So it's not the, oh, I want a yellow card, the wrong athlete.
622
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:06,880
Okay. Wow. Interesting. So, yeah, some of the crazy stories that you have during the time,
623
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:14,080
I guess, either as judge or event delegate, either at the IFSC or locally,
624
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:17,920
yeah, any crazy stories that either of you want to get into?
625
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:28,480
Well, I'll say my craziest event would probably be the World Cup last year in Jakarta.
626
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:36,640
Yeah. Really, for a few reasons, it was just a speed World Cup. We had to,
627
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:46,160
we were really concerned with the event. We know about the weather forecast not being promising.
628
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:53,280
And it's been just, yeah, so everybody was quite worried. So it's quite interesting because we
629
01:14:53,280 --> 01:15:00,960
talked to the organizers. We were like, hey, we need to really plan regarding the weather. The
630
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:11,200
event is taking place in the evening. We need to have understanding for, yeah, what's the
631
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:17,280
conditions in place. And we really like to check with the local meteorological station on the
632
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:25,920
weather forecast. So they were like, no, we've got everything settled. And we're like, okay,
633
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:39,360
so what's the plan? Oh, yeah, we've got the subject matter expert. He will be able to fix
634
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:47,520
the weather. So we were like, okay. So we started to ask a bit more. In short, they've got somebody
635
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:57,920
with traditional wisdom, which can control the weather. Then we were like, yeah, okay,
636
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:07,760
thank you. But I think it's not possible for me to tell the coaches and the team managers that,
637
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:13,840
oh, we've got somebody with traditional wisdom that can fix the weather. Or neither could I put
638
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:24,400
this in the report if I have to cancel. So we were like, oh, it's not easy. They were confident.
639
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:33,120
I get it. But again, I need some actual information for us to make contingency and stuff.
640
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:43,760
So it took us really a very long while for us to really get some scientific reports.
641
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:50,160
I have to talk about things that I said. It's traditional and scientific terms for us to make
642
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:58,480
the decision. So we had the qualification, qualification ran semi-final. We were expecting
643
01:16:58,480 --> 01:17:10,880
to have rain. Interestingly, three hours before, it was a very big rain and suddenly it stopped,
644
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:16,960
giving us enough time to do it. I think we rescheduled the competition probably an hour
645
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:23,360
before it just stopped and we were able to actually clean up the field of play. It's time
646
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:31,440
for the finals. Is it the weather report? Is it a traditional whistle? I don't know.
647
01:17:31,440 --> 01:17:40,800
And also, same event. That was the first time that it's quite usual that if the IFSC board
648
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:46,960
members is not around, the event director would have to be involved in a few ceremonial rules
649
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:53,360
that include being the presenter for the awarding ceremony and the opening ceremony.
650
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:59,600
So, I had Xandru who was the sports operations manager from the IFSC office with me.
651
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:08,960
So, that was the first day of competition. We were having some discussion and the organizer came.
652
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:20,000
Hey, both of you are invited to the opening ceremony of the World Cup. Okay, sure. So,
653
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:27,280
we went there. So, I thought that okay, probably go there just to sit and grace the event with
654
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:33,840
performance. In Asia, we always have a performance. So, that was it. And it was later that I realized
655
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:41,360
that we had to be part of the opening ceremony. So, in this opening ceremony, they have a skit
656
01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:54,800
where there's this skit about the competition taking place. And you have this bad character
657
01:18:55,920 --> 01:19:08,240
is going to disrupt the competition. And Alessandro and I have to get into a spa with
658
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:17,280
the two henchmen. So, we have to rehearse it. And literally, I have to grab the knife of him
659
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:27,120
and actually stab the henchman. So, it's like, oh, we're becoming a performer in the opening
660
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:37,440
ceremony. So, yeah, I have the photo that I sent you. But unfortunately, it didn't kickstart any
661
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:53,760
acting opportunities. So, I saw an opening ceremony in Kachau that was one of the World
662
01:19:53,760 --> 01:20:00,960
Cup side won two in person. Does that only happen in Asia? I didn't see any opening ceremonies
663
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:13,200
anywhere else. Yeah. So far, for Asia, like Indonesia, China, the opening ceremony would
664
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:24,240
usually comprise of one or two performance that is done by a local group just to showcase the
665
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:30,640
culture. Yeah. So, I'll give that a bit more comment than what we had. So, in Europe,
666
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:35,840
probably we have an opening ceremony just for the flag ceremony. There are probably
667
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:44,000
some speeches to kickstart. Yeah. But over here, there's tends to be a bit more elaborate,
668
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:49,360
I think, performance. I think the speech by the dignitaries as well.
669
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:58,000
Makes sense. And yeah. So, going back to the rain issue, that kind of happens a lot,
670
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:06,480
like almost all the time. There's always a rain concern. How is this not fixed at all?
671
01:21:06,480 --> 01:21:14,080
I mean, because like, yeah, you had to cancel an entire round in Kachau. That makes it pretty
672
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:19,040
difficult. I think even recently, like in Innsbruck, there was a big delay.
673
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:26,400
Yeah. So, first of all, to fix, to really fix this problem for,
674
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:35,360
yeah, to fix this problem, I think we need to have all IPv6 events being organized indoors.
675
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:45,600
Indoor stadium or something, and it's not going to be cheap to have IPv6 events in indoor stadium.
676
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:57,360
It's going to cost a lot for the organizers. Probably, there are gyms that are spectacular.
677
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:06,720
That's good. But if you're organizing in gyms, it costs 3D to not allow so many spectators.
678
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:13,760
Could be maybe $300, $400, and that's the max. So that's where I see that
679
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:24,480
having competitions outdoors is still considered a viable option because you can find a big space,
680
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:33,680
you set up the wall, you prepare for 5,000 people, and because this is an open space like
681
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:45,040
the last two competitions in Jakarta, the cost to rent space would be minimal.
682
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:52,320
You pay some miscellaneous charge for the cleaning services, but if you want to book
683
01:22:52,320 --> 01:23:01,360
an indoor stadium like PPC Arena in France, this could be quite a lot. And if you think about it,
684
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:11,920
three days of competition, five days of resetting, plus another three days of construction, that's
685
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:21,840
two a week. Yeah, so that is the challenges. That's why competitions are still being
686
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:31,840
organized outdoors. If it's outdoor, having a rain, I think that is definitely a drawback,
687
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:39,440
which again, because we are using a temporary venue, we can't have a booth that's as big as
688
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:49,920
possible. Kachiao, unfortunately I would say that it's really a bit unfortunate because you've been
689
01:23:49,920 --> 01:24:01,840
there, you've known that it is considered an indoor facility, but if listeners can check the
690
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:10,160
wet check, some of the waters of the venue is that you have a big hole in the center.
691
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:19,040
In short, this hole, if it rains, everybody gets wet. The spectators that are sitting
692
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:26,960
at the terraces, spectators that are standing just right in front of the field of play,
693
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:37,760
and also the field play as well. You probably also see that when it rains, water rather than a
694
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:50,240
funnel to drain upwards, it's draining inwards as well. So I'll say that, yeah,
695
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:57,680
that is really unfortunate. You have a nice place, but due to the engineering or design,
696
01:24:57,680 --> 01:25:08,720
the place couldn't be dry enough to give the athletes the perfect competition that they
697
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:17,120
deserve. So I'll say that it's a pity. And I really hope that we have the same.
698
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:24,080
This venue was built for the Asian Games last year. We had to unfortunately cancel
699
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:32,800
the final rounds for the women's gold athlete. So the medals were awarded based on the semi-final
700
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:46,960
results. But stage, I would say a cover was built for, we have this cover to block the rain in the
701
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:57,440
Coachella World Cup, but it's not enough because the floor gets wet. So it's coming out for
702
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:08,880
causal, quite a challenge for them to get to the field of play without the shoes being wet.
703
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:19,280
Even with that big shelter, half of the dead would still be subjected to rain.
704
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:25,920
So I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping that that could be resolved
705
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:35,760
for future events. Why don't you guys just hire the person who knows how to make the rain go away?
706
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:40,640
Yes, maybe that is a bigger way. I think you should reach out to him again.
707
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:48,080
I think they should share a bit of resources here where we get the traditional, the wise men to go
708
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:50,560
over to Coachella and try it out. Yeah, exactly.
709
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:58,160
Yeah, I mean, it worked the first time, so maybe there is something to it.
710
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:03,200
Okay, Zul, any examples from you in mind?
711
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:15,360
Among ourselves, the local judges, we have this funny joke about how in order for you to pass
712
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:22,080
what the judges cost, you need to do this one particular event that all of us did,
713
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:29,280
which was one of these, it wasn't an IBCC Con, but it was a continental event, but
714
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:40,640
it was super bad, in that sense where, so in a nutshell, the shittiest thing that happened was,
715
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:46,880
so it was a mixture of boulder, lead and spit, right, but during the lead event,
716
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:55,760
the belayers literally walked out of the event, and they did not want, they kind of went to a test.
717
01:27:55,760 --> 01:28:01,840
Well, yeah, so I think it was some politics thing, so they'd be like, you know,
718
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:08,800
FCU, we're not going to belay, and then we were like, huh, how did you even go to the event,
719
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:15,440
and then the JP, the TD at that point of time had to tell the coaches that, you know what,
720
01:28:15,440 --> 01:28:22,880
this is what happened, I don't know, so and then it ended up with the coaches themselves
721
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:32,720
belaying the athletes. Yeah, and now that's okay, I say sure, it's like, yeah, it was,
722
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:37,520
it was, I don't know, maybe it was a money issue, where, I don't know, it could be a lot of things,
723
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:43,760
so, but definitely not within our circle as technical officials, for sure. In fact,
724
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:50,640
I was not even a full-fledged judge at that point of time, I was there to take a course, which I
725
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:59,920
failed the first time. Yeah, so, yeah, that con was quite iconic because it's like, I went overseas
726
01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:06,960
and then I was working with another senior judge, one of our mentors, and then this random dude was
727
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:13,120
like asking us on, during dinner, he was like, so which is the worst con in your guide? With the
728
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:17,760
boomerang I threw at him, I was like, you know what I was going to say, and he was like, I know what
729
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:25,200
you're going to say, you know, it's to that level, right? So it was crazy, like, you know, I think the
730
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:31,920
one underlying thing that a lot of people don't realize that competitions, in general, is the
731
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:37,760
amount of politics involved. So, yeah, going into this also deals, you have to kind of deal with
732
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:43,840
that, and I think that's where you kind of put it very nicely, you have to play your cards well,
733
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:51,440
right? You need to know who you should appease, you should know who not to, I guess,
734
01:29:51,440 --> 01:29:59,920
in the right books, I guess, but that's not to say you should be pushed over just to every single
735
01:29:59,920 --> 01:30:06,560
thing somebody asks you to do, right? But anyway, before I do this, so that same competition,
736
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:17,760
because, okay, so that competition was impractical for our course. So, continental judges, in case
737
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:24,160
we didn't cover early on, so basically, let's say if you're already a full-fledged national judge,
738
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:29,680
let's say you're ready to go to the next level at the discretion of your national
739
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:36,480
federation, they can probably offer you or recommend you to go to the continental course.
740
01:30:36,480 --> 01:30:41,280
So, right now, it's a bit iffy because I don't know what ISAP-IFSC is doing, they might have
741
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:47,280
their own upgrade to begin with, but back then, during my time at least, we had this continental
742
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:53,760
judges course, so it's just one tier above, right? So, if you pass that course, you essentially become
743
01:30:53,760 --> 01:31:00,080
what you are now, your IFSC level one judge. So, as mentioned earlier on, you're only doing
744
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:06,640
continental events at that level, right? So, that course, you take the theory bus, so there's an
745
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:10,960
exam and all that, and then you have to do a practical. The practical is actually running the
746
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:17,360
whole event of the competition. So, interestingly enough, that was where we had, as I mentioned,
747
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:24,400
we didn't have control as to how billionaires can walk out of the event, but for me, I was also
748
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:32,240
being a cellist, right? So, the funny thing was we knew that we were going to fail,
749
01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:38,480
so I said I already failed, and then we were still told to run the event. So, what was funny was that
750
01:31:38,480 --> 01:31:45,200
I had my counterpart, my friend, also from Singapore, who went to take the course. So,
751
01:31:45,200 --> 01:31:51,920
basically, he passed, I failed. So, I mean, there's a cohort basically, so I think a good 10 of us,
752
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:56,960
so out of those 10, I think probably only 4 of them passed, so he was one of them. So,
753
01:31:56,960 --> 01:32:01,920
the funny thing was we basically look kind of similar, both full-grown guys,
754
01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:10,320
and then what was funny was, so the assessor was telling me, I said, okay, you do lead event,
755
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:14,960
you run the whole show. I'm like, what are you asking me to do? I'm like, oh, okay, fine,
756
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:22,160
but I've done it anyway, so I did it anyway, and long story short, I did it well enough to
757
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:26,320
be considered as a pass, but that pass wasn't for me, but was for my friend.
758
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:31,280
And then I was like, after the event, I was like, what do you ask me to do it? He said,
759
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:39,360
I saved the course. I said, wait, you're not this guy? I'm like, yeah, I'm not this guy,
760
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:49,040
so I made my friend pass. So there were minor minor stuff like how when I was judging,
761
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:56,160
I was the boulder judge, and then a Thai female climber was sitting in line. It was a rotation
762
01:32:56,160 --> 01:33:05,760
format, right? And she had an asthma attack. Then I was like, are you okay? And then I'm like,
763
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:10,320
how do I react? Of course, it was my first time, right? I was like, should I take care of this?
764
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:17,760
But then I need to judge, so do I? It was a bit chaotic at times. Thankfully, the coach was right
765
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:31,040
behind me. I was like, yeah, I'll handle this. And then I think there was not a crazy story,
766
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:37,280
but kind of funny. Same thing, Solid City. So what happened was during one, I can't recall
767
01:33:37,280 --> 01:33:43,600
whether it was, it was a speed event. I'm not sure which round. I will send you timestamp.
768
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:52,720
There was a bee. A bee was flying and going into the peanut hole. And all that was caught on screen.
769
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:58,480
The camera guy was zooming in into the bee and I was like, okay. And the funny thing,
770
01:33:58,480 --> 01:34:04,720
I was on the ground and I was like, why? So it was, I think, Giulia Rendi from Italy. She was
771
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:12,160
going to compete with the female Chinese climber in this one. So it was before the round. And then
772
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:19,760
I was like, why does Giulia look so uneasy? You know, she felt as though there was something and
773
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:24,560
I was like, oh, there's a bee. At the top of my mind, I was like, please, please, please do not
774
01:34:25,200 --> 01:34:30,800
sting anyone, because I don't want to handle it. You know, it's like, oh, I got stung by a bee,
775
01:34:30,800 --> 01:34:39,600
and now I have to do a whole new rerun or whatsoever. So it was super funny. And everything
776
01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:46,560
was caught on live stream. It's like immortalized on the live stream. Of course, it was nice to have
777
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:54,160
the USAC guys, you know, Black Tie Hathaway, was doing your world billiard thing. His crew was
778
01:34:54,160 --> 01:35:02,800
like trying to show what such a way that bee, and he did it once, and then it came back. At the end
779
01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:07,920
of the day, I was like, I think Steve, Steve, yeah, Steve went in and was like, for some reason,
780
01:35:07,920 --> 01:35:15,520
took like three guys to like remove the bee, you know. And then there was one time where everyone
781
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:21,920
started laughing. Trevor was one of it, and I think Premier ZZ was like, kind of saved the day.
782
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:26,960
I was like, what the hell, you know, it's all because of bees. Yeah, and I think to be fair,
783
01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:33,280
I was also told, you can't, because in US, we have like state laws and all that stuff, like,
784
01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:40,000
this could be, I also learned that you can't just kill it because they could be protected species
785
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:44,160
and all that, so you can't get fined, and I'm like, I'm not gonna get that, I will see if it's
786
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:47,680
fine for killing a bee. Oh, I didn't know about that. Right, so, you know, that sort of thing,
787
01:35:47,680 --> 01:35:55,440
so yeah, it's a lot of funny things that happened, so, but the bee layers working out will still
788
01:35:55,440 --> 01:36:03,120
be the top of my list. All right, well, thank you for the stories. So yeah, now moving forward,
789
01:36:03,120 --> 01:36:10,960
looking ahead into the future of IFSC and judging anything that you would like to see changed
790
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:19,280
to make either your lives easier or any ideas you have to improve it. I think the main bulk of our
791
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:25,760
work is still, you know, as mentioned, to deal with appeals and all that, so I think if there's
792
01:36:25,760 --> 01:36:35,280
a way to kind of mitigate or reduce the effort needed for that, I think that would help tremendously
793
01:36:35,280 --> 01:36:41,920
because I think just to share a bit on what's the current process, we still have video gamers to
794
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:50,240
record each of the athletes' climbs, but what we have to do now is we always have to, okay, let's say
795
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:56,080
they are done or in some cases you have to wait until the lane is clear before we can review the video.
796
01:36:56,080 --> 01:37:03,360
That whole process itself is already very time-consuming, that's one, but the actual problem
797
01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:11,760
relies on the viewing of the athlete's video. So you have to look into it, you have to find it,
798
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:18,800
find which, for boulder, it could be which attempt, for lead, it could be at which particular point,
799
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:24,240
of course, yeah, if you know the person got somewhere on the head wall, then obviously you
800
01:37:24,240 --> 01:37:29,680
kind of fast forward to that part, but I think all that stuff, how do we then make it easier,
801
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:37,360
faster and more efficient, because right now it feels a lot more manual in that sense.
802
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:44,800
I guess it kind of comes to the spot, but if, let's say, for example, we were talking about it
803
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:51,600
previously, like what if we had something like what FIFA has, you know, the VAR system, you know,
804
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:58,160
it's maybe something that you can tie in with AI, let's say you need a particular data set of
805
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:06,640
all the different types of appeal and what is the result, can that camera system register and then
806
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:14,880
recommend a result or a score, for example. So then, obviously, you still need that human
807
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:20,960
to go and verify, okay, so this is correct, for example. So of course, this is maybe a proprietary
808
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:30,720
idea. Whoever decided to make this 10% finder fee for us, okay. Anyway, yeah, it could be that,
809
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:35,680
it could be that. So it's just making things a lot more efficient, at least on my end,
810
01:38:35,680 --> 01:38:40,960
yeah, because we're always constantly running and all that. So I don't know about you, Stanley?
811
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:48,160
Well, we talk about distribution of information, that's very important, I think. You spoke to Matt,
812
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:54,480
Matt, let me tell you about incidents like something that's happening on the field of play,
813
01:38:54,480 --> 01:39:02,160
it's not in plan. Usually I'll write pieces of paper, drop over there because being a delegate,
814
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:07,840
I will probably be the one that's the boat between the field of play and where he is.
815
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:13,920
There needs to be probably, I'll say, a more centralized distribution of information.
816
01:39:15,200 --> 01:39:21,760
If you see what Formula One is doing, when there's a potential incident that they need to
817
01:39:21,760 --> 01:39:28,800
investigate, start to have problems that's coming up to say, okay, so then this driver is being
818
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:36,000
investigated for potential violation, I think that would be something that would be interesting,
819
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:45,200
having a big set to act in this case, having this on screen. Why expect data now? Because again,
820
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:49,120
when we're talking about sports, it's not just the action, but it's the information as well.
821
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:56,240
So when you're watching something happens, it should be coming out wide. Likewise, the
822
01:39:56,240 --> 01:40:03,840
previous system, probably we're still doing a bit more manual. So if everything can be a bit more
823
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:14,320
streamlined, integrated, where the coaches could put in the appeal, probably send it via an app to
824
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:21,040
the jury president, maybe give him an electronic shock or something, so that he knows, oh, I'm
825
01:40:21,040 --> 01:40:28,320
receiving an appeal. Then, okay, if it's accepted, zap back at him. If it's rejected, zap the coaches
826
01:40:28,320 --> 01:40:34,880
twice. Something like this. So at least have something that is a bit more streamlined and
827
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:43,040
all this could be in a centralized formation. We've been in our second Olympics. We are going to
828
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:59,760
LA. I really hope that we could get three medals so that the gold at speed can be independently
829
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:12,880
presented. I think that the athletes have been working very hard for the last six, eight years.
830
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:22,240
When we had Tokyo, they had to adapt by incorporating speed into their training.
831
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:33,280
And for speed athletes, having to attempt to do that as well. Here in Paris, we have a standalone
832
01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:42,320
for speed, but they still caught S1. I think they should be given the opportunity to compete
833
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:49,200
in a straight discipline separately. That's something that's my wish. The other thing
834
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:56,720
that I really hope is that again, with us being more popular now, I hope that we
835
01:41:57,680 --> 01:42:10,640
this is a good time to actually prioritize the athletes' prize money for the future events.
836
01:42:10,640 --> 01:42:19,360
I think this should be given a lot more. Maybe we couldn't, we can't prioritize it in the last
837
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:24,080
four to six years because there are more urgent things that we need to do. But now we have got
838
01:42:24,080 --> 01:42:28,720
more eyeballs. People are talking about sports like me. This is a good time for that.
839
01:42:28,720 --> 01:42:38,480
All right, cool. Those are all the questions I had. A couple quick Discord questions that
840
01:42:38,480 --> 01:42:44,720
we can go through. So the first one, how different are World Cups depending on who's
841
01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:50,400
organizing them? And what are your most chaotic experiences with event organizers?
842
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:56,800
If the World Cup is organized, if it's European, I haven't been, interestingly,
843
01:42:56,800 --> 01:43:01,120
I haven't been to the American World Cups. I've been to a couple of European World Cups.
844
01:43:01,120 --> 01:43:08,080
If you're going to the European World Cups, it's like we've planned everything. Our trip
845
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:18,560
literally is from the airport all the way to the venue. The official hotel in Asia,
846
01:43:19,440 --> 01:43:26,240
depending. In Japan, I've been to Japan. That's where I've made my way all the way to Hachioji
847
01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:34,000
last year. Jakarta, you probably have somebody. So there will be some organizers who will be
848
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:37,920
offering pick-up service. So there are somebody to pick you up.
849
01:43:37,920 --> 01:43:46,240
Yeah. So that actually saves you that planning and coordinating. So like in China, there's always
850
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:54,080
somebody who will pick you up from the airport. Yeah. And the dynamics of each organization,
851
01:43:54,080 --> 01:44:00,080
it is actually very, very different. You have the national federations.
852
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:09,680
We are always the organizing of the competition, but they'll probably be working with
853
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:17,280
the local sub, like Germany, for example. You have FFME that is
854
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:26,800
forming a competition committee. But then in the actual execution, you will be working with them,
855
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:36,160
will be actually working with the strong team to co-run the event. So this is where it's
856
01:44:36,160 --> 01:44:43,360
interesting because I'll say that in Europe, everything will be more systematic.
857
01:44:43,360 --> 01:44:51,600
You would need a lot of autonomy and initiative to probably find your way in the planning process,
858
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:57,280
but working with everyone, it seems like they know what to do. And I'll say, across Europe,
859
01:44:57,280 --> 01:45:02,720
it's quite uniform in how you do things and you work collaboratively with various stakeholders.
860
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:13,840
In Asia, it could be quite different. Sometimes it's only one, two or three key person that has
861
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:19,120
all the information and you need to go to that to actually solve those problems.
862
01:45:19,120 --> 01:45:27,200
So again, we have quite a lot of events in China. So one of the challenges would be,
863
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:33,680
if you're going to different places in China, it does work a bit differently.
864
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:38,400
So for me, my advantage is because I speak Chinese, which is their native language,
865
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:43,840
so I will still be able to communicate to the people on the ground.
866
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:50,400
Yeah, so I'll say that dynamics is probably quite different depending on which country.
867
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:58,960
And also with this, that also means that we have to always remain very adaptable and also be
868
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:06,240
a bit, you don't have that awareness or that culture, WK culture as well.
869
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:11,120
And then most chaotic experiences with event organizers?
870
01:46:11,120 --> 01:46:14,800
I felt that again, going back to Keqiao,
871
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:24,960
because I've got two chaotic experiences in Keqiao that resulted in me having to cancel
872
01:46:27,520 --> 01:46:34,080
at least one round of competition. So Keqiao playing for the Asian Games, it was so chaotic
873
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:40,480
that it rained so much that the reason we have to cancel the competition was literally,
874
01:46:40,480 --> 01:46:48,080
if you look at the boulder wall, the water is seeping out from the front of the wall.
875
01:46:48,080 --> 01:46:52,880
Because when we announced that to the coaches that we have to cancel it,
876
01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:57,840
the coaches requested to be brought out to take a look at the wall because they need to prepare
877
01:46:57,840 --> 01:47:02,560
for the season. And you can see that it's literally like the boulder wall is crying
878
01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:10,480
through the boardwalks. So I will say that it's always chaotic because if you look at the
879
01:47:10,480 --> 01:47:17,120
facility, you look at the event, to you it's like, hey, this is a stadium that is built just for
880
01:47:17,120 --> 01:47:26,800
climbing. You sort of have that full confidence that this is how future sports climbing events
881
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:38,000
should be in such a venue. But yet, the architecture didn't do the venue and the
882
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:44,400
sports enough justice. And of course, when it rains, first of all, you have to keep everything
883
01:47:46,160 --> 01:47:53,760
as dry as possible. You need to keep everybody in, you need to start to sit down and make decisions
884
01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:58,320
really fast. And everybody's like, oh, what's happening? Yeah, so that is always the most
885
01:47:58,320 --> 01:48:08,240
chaotic for me. Yeah, so I think, well, I'm still being followed up, so I can't say for certain,
886
01:48:08,240 --> 01:48:17,200
but I think largely, I think it depends on the event organizer, whether they're experienced or
887
01:48:17,200 --> 01:48:26,480
not. Because ironically, one of the cons, I think that same year that a particular country
888
01:48:26,480 --> 01:48:34,480
shut or woke up, and that same year, later part of the year, they had a continental event,
889
01:48:34,480 --> 01:48:42,800
but it was such a distinct difference. We don't know what happened in terms of whether because
890
01:48:42,800 --> 01:48:51,360
there are different camps in the whole organization or different teams, so sometimes you may get
891
01:48:51,360 --> 01:49:00,000
different kind of experiences in that sense, but I think that kind of translates into what you need
892
01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:05,840
to do also because, regardless of whether it's an international event or whether it's a local event,
893
01:49:05,840 --> 01:49:13,120
the organizer's experience will determine how much workload you need to do, because if it's
894
01:49:13,120 --> 01:49:17,360
my first time, let's say I'm an organizer, it's my first time organizing from this year,
895
01:49:17,360 --> 01:49:22,720
I wouldn't know nuts about how to run an event, so there's a lot more hand-holding,
896
01:49:22,720 --> 01:49:28,880
there's a lot more going back and forth trying to tell them, okay, why you should be doing this,
897
01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:34,800
why should you not be doing this, so we're always going into that lens from an events management
898
01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:42,080
view, and I think a lot of people don't realize this or don't know this, but for us as judges
899
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:50,000
especially, even at my level, a good 70% of it, it's events management, the judging is only 30%,
900
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:56,880
so it's really looking at it from a flow perspective, you know, what if it rains,
901
01:49:56,880 --> 01:50:02,320
can the athlete walk here, can they see the wall, you know, all that stuff has to be taken into
902
01:50:02,320 --> 01:50:08,080
account, but yeah, so I think it differs from organizers to organizers for sure.
903
01:50:08,080 --> 01:50:16,400
In the Olympic event, I can't say, but then I think Asian Games last year was,
904
01:50:16,400 --> 01:50:21,920
yeah, I think kind of piggybacking on his experience as well, it was sad because
905
01:50:22,720 --> 01:50:30,400
when Stanley came in to tell the coaches, you know, they say, guys, we need to cancel the event,
906
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:42,320
the athletes visibly looked upset obviously, right, but they were so looking forward to climb
907
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:49,040
to the extent they came to us, can we still climb now in the rain, and of course we're gonna say no
908
01:50:49,040 --> 01:50:54,800
because the liability, safety issue, right, so you know, it's this kind of things that you,
909
01:50:54,800 --> 01:51:00,000
I wouldn't want to be in that position as well, they flew all the way in, they fly in,
910
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:04,720
do one round of qualifications and finals and then suddenly,
911
01:51:04,720 --> 01:51:15,120
and there was also the same event that because of the rain, I had to judge in the raincoat,
912
01:51:16,320 --> 01:51:20,480
never have I judged in a raincoat before, so it's like, it was raining,
913
01:51:20,480 --> 01:51:26,320
everything was dripping wet, and then you get a tablet, and then you have like, I have to,
914
01:51:26,320 --> 01:51:33,120
my judge still had to key in, scoring, right, and I'm like that, she better not get water inside,
915
01:51:33,120 --> 01:51:37,920
you know, it's like, if not, it's gonna scoop up everything. Yeah, lucky the water didn't
916
01:51:37,920 --> 01:51:44,640
fill up the trench. Yeah. You see the trench? So yeah, it's kinda shallow, so the judges are
917
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:52,720
sitting, it's like a long-ass bathtub, it depends on how you look at it, so we were in there,
918
01:51:52,720 --> 01:51:57,200
right, so and yeah, we couldn't move, as then, yeah, we had to wear a raincoat,
919
01:51:57,200 --> 01:52:05,200
I was like wiping stuff for my judge to, you know, yeah, it was all over the place, yeah.
920
01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:11,680
We made it, but. Yeah, no, it's really uncomfortable. I remember even just like watching,
921
01:52:11,680 --> 01:52:18,000
it was, it was really uncomfortable, I kind of was kind of miserable. It was, yeah. Yeah,
922
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:24,800
there was one about if national federations should be the ones organizing World Cups or
923
01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:35,920
if other, I guess, maybe like corporations are viable. Okay, yeah, so I know that previously
924
01:52:36,560 --> 01:52:43,600
for all the World Cups application, it needs to be submitted by the National Federation.
925
01:52:43,600 --> 01:52:52,960
So that means that with that process, that means that if there is a commercial
926
01:52:52,960 --> 01:53:01,200
organization that wishes to organize it, probably they'll need to work with the National Federation,
927
01:53:02,000 --> 01:53:10,960
right, then to make an application. I've seen last year's application form
928
01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:20,560
that's available on iFNC. It states that the application seems to be now probably
929
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:26,720
a product to not just the Federation, but probably the city councils as well.
930
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:35,520
So that could be like, for example, the city of Madrid wants to apply for
931
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:44,960
iFNC World Cup instead of the French Federation. I think that probably is a possibility, right?
932
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:52,480
Yeah. So, yeah, so it seems like, you know, there's probably iFNC is actually looking at
933
01:53:53,520 --> 01:53:59,200
having different stakeholders to organize more events in this case.
934
01:53:59,200 --> 01:54:01,120
You see NEOM could see that.
935
01:54:01,120 --> 01:54:03,440
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is that an example of it?
936
01:54:03,440 --> 01:54:04,960
Right? Kind of, right?
937
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:12,080
Yeah. NEOM could be interested to know that NEOM is in the iFNC, so that would probably be the
938
01:54:12,080 --> 01:54:17,680
case because if you look at the infrastructure from NEOM, there was a lot of mention regarding
939
01:54:19,440 --> 01:54:23,840
the National Federation of Digital Society, Climate Federation.
940
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:27,120
Okay. Cool. Yeah. Any other final thoughts?
941
01:54:27,120 --> 01:54:34,080
Yeah. People has always been asking. Well, I always have friends who's coming in. Hey,
942
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:43,680
why are you here in Singapore? You're not a Slovenia? Are you not a Copa or whatever? Yeah.
943
01:54:43,680 --> 01:54:50,720
So, actually, I don't go to everywhere. I think there are five event delegates. So,
944
01:54:50,720 --> 01:54:58,240
I think we rotate the events. A lot of people's been, sometimes people's been asking me, oh,
945
01:54:58,240 --> 01:55:07,280
what do I do? How do I get to become RIPC judge? So, like I said, I shared at the beginning that
946
01:55:07,280 --> 01:55:13,520
actually becoming an RIPC judge is only a start of the journey. Being an RIPC judge on paper,
947
01:55:13,680 --> 01:55:18,640
doesn't mean that you get nominated immediately. So, it took me really a few years
948
01:55:18,640 --> 01:55:28,000
to get my first nomination. A few years to get my second nomination before I was,
949
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:35,200
yeah, I was engaged more regularly. So, it's really a lot of patience and also at the same
950
01:55:35,200 --> 01:55:42,880
time, a lot of self-development. You need to be constantly engaged, engaging yourself,
951
01:55:42,880 --> 01:55:50,400
competitions. Nowadays, you have much better resources because you have YouTube.
952
01:55:50,400 --> 01:55:58,320
If it's not Joe Block, at least in Asia, you have to be able to access RIPC brands on YouTube.
953
01:55:58,320 --> 01:56:09,040
So, that gives you a very good resources to looking at the rounds and comparing the results
954
01:56:09,040 --> 01:56:17,840
based on one judgment. And it's also important that to most to say, if you aspire to be RFS
955
01:56:17,840 --> 01:56:25,120
judge, it's not just judging, but you need to have an overview of the entire competition process.
956
01:56:25,120 --> 01:56:31,600
So, literally it means from the point that the athletes check it into the warming up isolation
957
01:56:31,600 --> 01:56:38,160
until the end. So, you need to know everything. Yeah. So, with that process,
958
01:56:38,160 --> 01:56:46,080
understanding that process would help you to have a clear idea of how you conceptualize certain
959
01:56:46,080 --> 01:56:52,000
things that helps you with your decision making process. And of course, a big part is the problem
960
01:56:52,000 --> 01:57:00,960
solving. So, I think it's really important to constantly update yourself, be in the know of
961
01:57:00,960 --> 01:57:09,040
what's happening. So, I think that even on my end, I can personally say that because I need to be
962
01:57:09,040 --> 01:57:19,760
aware. Because it's like you don't want to end up being passive. So, as I mentioned earlier on,
963
01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:28,160
you're doing a button facing role, right? So, you want to be a bit more active in that sense. So,
964
01:57:28,160 --> 01:57:38,880
I personally watch the YouTube live streams. To be fair, my commitments might be slightly different.
965
01:57:38,880 --> 01:57:47,840
I can wake up at 2am in Singapore just to watch Solarize. But that's because I choose to do it,
966
01:57:47,840 --> 01:57:51,200
right? Of course, no one's stopping you to watch the replays, but at that time,
967
01:57:51,200 --> 01:57:58,480
you didn't know the results. So, spoiler! Okay, anyway. But I think, words of wisdom, I would say
968
01:57:58,480 --> 01:58:08,480
I personally can attest to this because I started from the bottom, right? So, I was a national judge,
969
01:58:08,480 --> 01:58:15,440
still a national judge. I went to Continental and then through recommendations and all that,
970
01:58:16,480 --> 01:58:20,880
I was shortlisted to get into Punggol Chef, right? So, in all that years,
971
01:58:20,880 --> 01:58:31,520
I think a lot of times, I kept that mindset of take what you can. So, it came to a point where
972
01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:39,920
if they appoint you, just take it because to me, that's like if you play games, that's
973
01:58:39,920 --> 01:58:45,200
basically gaining XP, getting experience, right? No matter where you go, you're going to gain
974
01:58:45,200 --> 01:58:50,800
experience and every competition is going to be different for sure and patience is definitely
975
01:58:50,800 --> 01:58:56,960
one of it because you don't become an IFFC judge, you don't be a judge for that matter overnight,
976
01:58:56,960 --> 01:59:02,640
right? So, you need to have patience, patience not only in terms of the process but with people
977
01:59:02,640 --> 01:59:11,520
who probably look down on you because of your age. I've had judges who blatantly ignore me
978
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:19,200
and show me away because they thought I was some stranger on the ground only to find out later on
979
01:59:19,200 --> 01:59:24,400
where they had problems they came to me. Then they realized like, oh okay, so you're the IFFC
980
01:59:24,400 --> 01:59:29,280
guys. I was like, oh wow, now they recognize me. So, you know, that sort of solves. For me,
981
01:59:29,280 --> 01:59:36,640
yeah, I'm 33 this year so I'm considered one of the younger judges. Typically, judges in the
982
01:59:36,640 --> 01:59:48,160
body area, they tend to be slightly older than I am. So I think don't, I guess, as much as age
983
01:59:48,160 --> 01:59:55,120
is a number, it is also a number, right? It can be an issue where people be like, oh, can you
984
01:59:55,120 --> 02:00:01,600
really believe this guy? But I think that's where you have to prove yourself. If you can make it,
985
02:00:01,600 --> 02:00:08,240
you can make it. If you cannot, it means you cannot. So yeah, so patience, dedication,
986
02:00:08,240 --> 02:00:15,520
relentlessness, I guess. You have to be, got to be hungry for it. So if you're not, yeah.
987
02:00:15,520 --> 02:00:20,240
Yeah, it's a lot of, it's a lot of work for not much recognition.
988
02:00:20,240 --> 02:00:21,200
It's sacrifice.
989
02:00:21,200 --> 02:00:26,000
Yeah, well, I think that is everything I had then. That's all the questions I had. Thanks
990
02:00:26,000 --> 02:00:31,600
for joining me. Do you want to let people know where they can find you?
991
02:00:31,600 --> 02:00:38,960
Yeah, I think I'm okay. We posted on Instagram. So yeah, I post nonsense once in a while. So
992
02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:42,800
yeah, but yeah, then put that link.
993
02:00:42,800 --> 02:00:48,320
Yeah, you can just put the link. If they need to approach me, if they need to get the National
994
02:00:48,320 --> 02:00:52,320
Federation to reach out to me or anything, yeah, I'm happy. So if you have questions,
995
02:00:52,320 --> 02:00:58,960
yeah, feel free to write to me. I'll be happy to reply. Although, yeah, my Instagram account,
996
02:00:58,960 --> 02:01:04,080
I don't really actually put a lot of photos, but I'm still responsive to messages.
997
02:01:04,080 --> 02:01:06,720
I will link those below in case people have questions.
998
02:01:06,720 --> 02:01:10,080
Okay, thank you. Amazing to talk to you guys.
999
02:01:10,080 --> 02:01:13,600
All right. Thank you so much, Jenny. Okay. Thank you, Jenny.
1000
02:01:13,600 --> 02:01:17,760
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to
1001
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:22,640
like and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are a super big climber.
1002
02:01:22,640 --> 02:01:27,200
If you're listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars,
1003
02:01:27,200 --> 02:01:30,080
and you can continue the discussion on the free
1004
02:01:30,080 --> 02:01:42,880
competition climbing discord linked in the description. Thanks again for listening.

Jinni Xia

28: Stanley & Zulazfar, IFSC Event Delegate & Judge

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Timestamps

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27: Jesse Grupper, Team USA Olympian