37: Tijl Smitz, IFSC Presidential Candidate
Tijl is currently the IFSC Europe president but he is now running for the president of IFSC with elections taking place in April. In this episode, we’ll learn about how IFSC politics works, hear about the changes he wants to make within the IFSC, and get his take on some hot topic issues like national federation quotas, RED-S testing, and the NEOM games.
Timestamps
Timestamps of discussion topics
0:00 - Intro
1:27 - Mad Rock Shoutout!!
2:16 - Climbing, coaching, and IFSC history
5:50 - Coaching the Belgian team
10:56 - How IFSC Presidency works
15:11 - Moving on from the Olympics
18:53 - Changes Tijl wants to see in the IFSC
24:43 - Increasing funding through Eurosport and routesetter education
33:25 - HOT TOPIC: Big names taking a break from world cups
38:38 - HOT TOPIC: New national federation quotas for world cups
41:38 - HOT TOPIC: RED-S Policy Implementation
48:20 - HOT TOPIC: NEOM Games
50:15 - DISCORD Q: What changes do you think we'll see to the World Cup format?
56:40 - DISCORD Q: Plastic vs rock preference?
1:00:47 - Words of wisdom + where to find Tijl
-
WEBVTT
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for me education doesn't need to be for free
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a route setter he makes his living out of it
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it's a profession so if you follow a professional
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education you can pay for it it doesn't need
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to be a hyper expensive neither our own events
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the world championship and then the world cups
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how do you give them value the easy answer is
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the prize money There was some controversy about
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it, clearly. Now, this year, the NEOM games aren't
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on the schedule anymore. At World Cup level,
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there has been tests done. I think 300 tests
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last year. There has been talks with specific
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athletes that are getting into the danger zone,
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but not there yet. Welcome to another episode
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of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm
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your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce
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my guest for today, Tijl Sumitz. Tijl is currently
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the IFSC Europe president, but is now running
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for the president of IFSC with elections taking
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place in April. In this episode, we'll learn
00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.399
about how IFSC politics works, hear about the
00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:05.920
changes he wants to make within the IFSC, and
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get his take on some hot topic issues like National
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Federation quotas, red -ice testing, and the
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NEOM Games. I really appreciate him being willing
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to answer some difficult questions. So I hope
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you enjoy this episode with Tijl. Real quick,
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I'm excited to announce my new sponsor helping
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Back to the show. So yeah, let's just get right
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into a little bit of your history um some easy
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questions before we get into like the hot button
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issues okay um so how did you start um climbing
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and for those who don't know you what do you
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do for the ifsc so um i started climbing being
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little i always loved climbing in trees and i
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watched uh sometimes when we were visiting south
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of france we were with my parents in the verdon
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valley and we saw climbers on on the on the walls
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and it was impressive for me and then we went
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hiking in the mountains in Austria and I really
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love pictures of people climbing free climbing
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in the 80s style with the pink pants and etc
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so I was quite impressed by that and in the end
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only when I was 18 years old I managed to start
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climbing in an indoor gym and I was immediately
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hooked up I wanted to climb three times a week
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and Yeah, it was really a new passion I discovered.
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And soon I also discovered climbing on the rocks,
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which was even more my thing. Apparently, I really
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love being outdoors and then climbing. So that's
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the way how I started from trees to walls to
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the rocks. And then since I was studying sports
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education, I was really motivated with some people
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in the climbing gym to somehow share the passion
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and to allow kids to start climbing. So we quite
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soon. Launched a club. I climbed merely one year
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when we started with some friends. A club for
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small kids to educate them in the climbing. Since
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it aligned with my studies as well. So that's
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how I started somehow in the climbing business
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as well. As a volunteer though, not as a business.
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Right, yes. That's how I started climbing. And
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how did I end up in the IFSC? Well, during sports
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education, I managed to become... coach of the
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Belgian climbing team when being on international
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competitions at the world championships in Indonesia
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no in Singapore sorry in 2012 there was a rule
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that said that if there was a tight spot at the
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gold medal place then based upon the speed of
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climbing in the finals of the lead that would
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be defined who is the winner and between all
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coaches we cut like oh this is not raw this is
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wrong it should not be based on time because
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it is lead climbing not speed climbing so at
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that point with all the coaches we decided to
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send an email to the ifsc complaining and asking
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like can this rule be changed and by the way
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don't we need a coach's representative in the
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ifsc Okay, at the IFC level, we didn't manage
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to get a coach's representative for the youth
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events at that moment, but we did get in the
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IFC Europe Sport Commission and I was lucky to
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be chosen as the coach's representative. At the
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same time, I started a full -time position inside
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the Belgian Federation as sports director and
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they decided to send me to the General Assemblies
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as National Federation's delegate. And so that
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way I rolled into it. I liked it. I like to bring
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opinions of people together and to make sure
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that we all had our say and that the general
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opinion was respected. And so in 2021, the National
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Federations of Europe decided to elect me as
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their president for IOC Europe. which also brought
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me into the IVC board. So the last four years,
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I have been part of the IVC board as Europe representative,
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and I have been IVC Europe president, thanks
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to the trust that the National Federations gave
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me. I don't know if I knew that you were the
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Belgian coach. How long were you doing that for?
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Oh, I think my first year coaching or my first
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competition was in 2007, was my first taste.
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I could go to Kranj, to the youth cup that we
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had, the European Youth Cup organized in Kranj,
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in Slovenia, back in the old days. And then from
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the year after, I was full -time coaching the
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youth team. and so yeah from 2007 or 8 rather
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till 2019 I was actively coaching and 2020 corona
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there was no coaching 2021 2022 I still had to
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do some I had to fill in some holes where we
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didn't have other coaches available but I was
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already less coaching because in the end there
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is a possible conflict of interest between being
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the president of IBC Europe and being a coach
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So I was more in the background, allowing a bit
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more the logistic side and not actively appealing
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or those things, but I was still helping a bit.
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So yeah, roughly 15 years, but maybe a bit less.
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Yeah, that's a long time. How did you like coaching?
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Oh, I loved coaching a lot. Sometimes I still
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miss it in the end. I love a lot to climb myself,
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but I love also to show people that they can.
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be stronger than they thought they could be or
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that they can surpass themselves and somehow
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guide them in the process to discover how to
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use their body and how to put goals and to go
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for new goals. So I really like to work with
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kids mostly, but I also coached adults for a
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long time. That was my way of earning my money.
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I was in the end, before I started working for
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the Belgian Federation, I was... an independent
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climbing coach working as a volunteer for the
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youth team in in my city and as a professional
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for seniors for not for seniors for adults infected
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as well debutants beginners as as experts so
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yeah i love to to teach people how to climb but
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then since i got more and more involved in in
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the management of sports climbing in the end
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at a certain time i could not combine both anymore
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also if you coach people you need to have trust
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and if you manage a team somehow you also decide
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who gets money who doesn't get money so people
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maybe don't can they are not able to tell you
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the full truth anymore at all moments somehow
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because if you tell to the one who's giving the
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money that you're injured maybe you get less
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money or there is the fear of not getting selected
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and those things and also just on my own side
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as well I didn't have time anymore for coaching
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really seriously, being fully focused on the
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performance of the athletes. And in the end,
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the athlete deserves a coach who is fully focused
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on them and who doesn't need to take care of
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the overall management of the federation. So
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it was a choice, but I still miss it sometimes,
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definitely. Yeah, yeah, no, that definitely makes
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sense. I mean, do you still do any professional
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adult coaching, since that's not really... There's
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no conflict of interest there? There is no conflict
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of interest. There is a conflict of schedule.
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So I even stopped coaching adults sooner than
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I stopped coaching youth. The passion really
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is to help young people to grow. And I didn't
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need it that much anymore for the money side
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because I had a full -time job already at that
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time. So I stopped with adult coaching in 2015,
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I think. But I continued with the youth later
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on. But yeah, of course, if there's friends of
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mine who start climbing now or that want some
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advice, I happily give advice. And I tend maybe
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even to give too much advice because I still
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have the coaching habit in me. When I go climbing
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with friends, I need to slow down a bit in my
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tips to them because sometimes it should be for
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fun and not for training also. Right, sure. Do
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you have like a number one tip or like mindset
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for... for coaching that you want to get out
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there oh on the technical side i definitely like
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one exercise for each and every level of climber
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it maybe sounds stupid but a beginner if you
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tell them to to climb in silence where you don't
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hear the feet on the on the footholds that's
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a good one but in the end even even a strong
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climber if he focuses once in a while on being
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silent with the feet It's a good thing to focus
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once more on the specific analytical part of
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climbing. It's my favorite exercise for all beginners
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and even intermediate level. That's for sure.
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And then, yeah, the one big thing is enjoy what
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you do and see the things that give you pure
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joy and don't start doing things because you
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think that you have to do them. Joy is most important,
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I think. Awesome. OK, so going back to, I guess,
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the logistical IFSC side of things. So you are
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running for IFSC president. How does this process
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work? OK, so every four years there is elections
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in the IFSC. For the full board, unless you take,
00:11:12.019 --> 00:11:14.159
you don't need to take into account the athletes
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representatives because they are elected by the
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athletes during the world championships. Every
00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:21.659
two years, there is the half of the election
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of the athletes commission that is elected. So
00:11:24.620 --> 00:11:27.120
that's a separate election process, but all the
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board members, vice presidents and president
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position, they get elected every four years.
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And indeed this year, some of the board members
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are not allowed to represent themselves again.
00:11:38.730 --> 00:11:41.789
However, Marcos Colaris, he asked for an exception
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because of all the merit he brought to this project
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and because there still might be the need to
00:11:49.690 --> 00:11:53.610
continue with him as president. So he can represent
00:11:53.610 --> 00:11:56.590
himself this year. But of course, other candidates
00:11:56.590 --> 00:11:58.929
can appear as well. And I am one of the other
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candidates. I don't know if there will be others
00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:03.149
for the president's position. In the end, we
00:12:03.149 --> 00:12:06.149
only... confirmed our candidacies this week with
00:12:06.149 --> 00:12:09.049
the IFSC and they still go through the nomination
00:12:09.049 --> 00:12:11.549
committee with all the candidates and then this
00:12:11.549 --> 00:12:13.990
needs to be confirmed towards all national federations.
00:12:14.629 --> 00:12:17.769
So all those board positions can have candidates
00:12:17.769 --> 00:12:21.549
and the nomination committee decides if the candidates
00:12:21.549 --> 00:12:24.549
are eligible or not. And so the different board
00:12:24.549 --> 00:12:27.769
positions are president, vice president or continental
00:12:27.769 --> 00:12:33.149
representative. That's a bit the different positions
00:12:33.149 --> 00:12:35.690
that are going for elections every four years.
00:12:35.950 --> 00:12:38.730
Okay, so he's not like necessarily stepping down.
00:12:38.850 --> 00:12:41.190
This is just something that happens every four
00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:44.289
years. Every four years there is elections and
00:12:44.289 --> 00:12:46.610
there can be candidates, as many candidates as
00:12:46.610 --> 00:12:50.610
there are people interested to do so. I think
00:12:50.610 --> 00:12:52.610
this year there will be many candidates because,
00:12:52.730 --> 00:12:56.279
yeah, it's been a long time. that the IABC is
00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:59.759
growing. We are Olympic now. There is some board
00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:03.419
members that cannot stand again for being part
00:13:03.419 --> 00:13:05.899
of the board. So there is vacant positions in
00:13:05.899 --> 00:13:08.299
any case. And there is some interest, I think.
00:13:08.379 --> 00:13:10.820
So we will have interesting elections and hopefully
00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:14.259
we will have a, we will for sure have an interesting
00:13:14.259 --> 00:13:18.559
team of board members starting from April onwards.
00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:21.779
And you don't know who like any of the other
00:13:21.779 --> 00:13:25.240
candidates are at the moment? We have, of course,
00:13:25.299 --> 00:13:27.320
the rumors circulating and some people that are
00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:31.200
saying it's allowed. So for president, maybe
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.840
there is only two persons, Marcos Colaris and
00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:40.159
me. But then for vice president, so there is
00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:42.960
four vice presidents, I think, I believe, on
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:45.659
the female vice president side. So there is two
00:13:45.659 --> 00:13:48.419
positions. It should be female and two positions
00:13:48.419 --> 00:13:51.070
which are male. I believe on the female side,
00:13:51.169 --> 00:13:52.909
there is two candidates. On the male side, there
00:13:52.909 --> 00:13:55.429
might be four or five candidates. So it's going
00:13:55.429 --> 00:13:58.070
to be a tough competition there with all valuable
00:13:58.070 --> 00:14:00.370
candidates. So the national federations will
00:14:00.370 --> 00:14:03.149
have hard choices also on that level. And now
00:14:03.149 --> 00:14:05.950
for the continental representatives, I believe
00:14:05.950 --> 00:14:07.490
that in the different continents, there have
00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:10.169
been some talks, but still, I think also there,
00:14:10.210 --> 00:14:13.549
there might be multiple candidates for each continent.
00:14:13.929 --> 00:14:16.789
So it's going to be interesting elections for
00:14:16.789 --> 00:14:19.600
sure. And I guess, sorry if this is a basic question,
00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:23.639
but like who's voting for this or like who decides?
00:14:23.740 --> 00:14:25.919
Good question. Definitely a good question. So
00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.240
all the national federations of the IFSC have
00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.639
a vote. It's one vote per national federation.
00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.720
I think we have 101 national federations nowadays,
00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:36.659
which we're still growing. So sometimes it's
00:14:36.659 --> 00:14:40.419
and some change. So I think the count now is
00:14:40.419 --> 00:14:43.840
101 national federations that can vote during
00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.539
the General Assembly, which happens in Cyprus.
00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:49.039
And there is three options for voting. So or
00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:51.759
you are there in person, or you can participate
00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:55.519
online with online voting, or you can even give
00:14:55.519 --> 00:15:00.700
a procuration, a proxy vote to another national
00:15:00.700 --> 00:15:03.659
federation. So the democratic process is quite
00:15:03.659 --> 00:15:07.740
wide, I would say. Participation is highly encouraged,
00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:11.940
I would say. Okay, great. Okay, so then going
00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:15.809
into some of the things that... I guess things
00:15:15.809 --> 00:15:17.429
that you might want to change or problems that
00:15:17.429 --> 00:15:20.570
you would want to work on. What things are the
00:15:20.570 --> 00:15:23.330
IFSC focused on right now that you don't think
00:15:23.330 --> 00:15:26.190
are as important or that they don't need to be
00:15:26.190 --> 00:15:29.629
as focused on? It's a tricky question you ask,
00:15:29.649 --> 00:15:31.509
because I don't think that the focuses that are
00:15:31.509 --> 00:15:33.809
existing now are not as important. Because, for
00:15:33.809 --> 00:15:36.269
example, the main focus of the last 17 years
00:15:36.269 --> 00:15:39.769
was being part of the Olympic Games. And that
00:15:39.769 --> 00:15:42.730
stays, of course, a very important point for
00:15:42.730 --> 00:15:45.309
the future as well. But we managed to be in the
00:15:45.309 --> 00:15:48.009
Olympic Games up till now, two times already.
00:15:48.110 --> 00:15:51.250
We are confirmed for Los Angeles also as a program
00:15:51.250 --> 00:15:54.110
sport. So I think we've shown our value in the
00:15:54.110 --> 00:15:56.429
Olympic Games. We are part of the Olympic family
00:15:56.429 --> 00:15:59.830
now. So that's somehow achieved. And I think
00:15:59.830 --> 00:16:02.190
indeed that over the last 70 years, there have
00:16:02.190 --> 00:16:06.029
been a strong operational focus. And also at
00:16:06.029 --> 00:16:08.409
board level, we have been focused on delivering
00:16:08.409 --> 00:16:11.250
these Olympic Games. And that has been good.
00:16:11.289 --> 00:16:13.129
But now that we're in there, I think we need
00:16:13.129 --> 00:16:15.730
to step up to the next level. And it is important
00:16:15.730 --> 00:16:19.250
now that we somehow shift from being operationally
00:16:19.250 --> 00:16:23.309
focused to having real long -term strategy to
00:16:23.309 --> 00:16:26.320
work broadly, more widely. definitely having
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.919
a development focus where we help all national
00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:33.559
federations to grow. Because in the end, the
00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.419
Olympic Games, it's a very good goal to have,
00:16:36.539 --> 00:16:39.500
but only roughly 20 national federations manage
00:16:39.500 --> 00:16:41.759
to participate in the Olympic Games because we
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:44.379
have limited medals, we have limited quota places.
00:16:45.149 --> 00:16:48.590
So all the 81 other national federations, so
00:16:48.590 --> 00:16:51.370
to say, they don't get necessarily the push from
00:16:51.370 --> 00:16:53.289
their National Olympic Committee. They don't
00:16:53.289 --> 00:16:55.850
get the recognition or it is more difficult to
00:16:55.850 --> 00:16:57.970
get that recognition. It's more difficult to
00:16:57.970 --> 00:17:00.490
develop. You cannot say we have an Olympian,
00:17:00.490 --> 00:17:03.669
so please sponsors come and help us. No, they
00:17:03.669 --> 00:17:05.829
still need to get to the level of the Olympic
00:17:05.829 --> 00:17:09.319
Games. So I believe that... Having an Olympic
00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:11.680
focus for the future, it is still needed, even
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:13.839
a Paralympic focus, because we are part of the
00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:17.180
Paralympic Games now as well. But on the other
00:17:17.180 --> 00:17:19.380
side, there should be a huge focus on development
00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:24.160
and making sure that we all grow globally. All
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.460
continents, all national federations get the
00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:29.119
chance to develop furthermore. I think that's
00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:32.599
the main focus for the future, the development
00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.220
of the national federations. We'll definitely
00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:37.519
get into like the development portion a little
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.359
bit later. I guess just real quick about the
00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:44.079
Olympic Games. As a program sport, does that
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.680
mean that we still might like get kicked out
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.640
in the future? Or does that mean we're like forever
00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:54.150
in the Olympics? In the past, we would say, yeah,
00:17:54.170 --> 00:17:56.150
once you're a program sport, you're in the Olympics
00:17:56.150 --> 00:18:00.170
forever. However, it is changing more and more.
00:18:00.250 --> 00:18:03.210
I think the phrase they use nowadays is the sliding
00:18:03.210 --> 00:18:05.950
doors. So it might happen that you stay in, it
00:18:05.950 --> 00:18:08.349
might happen that you get kicked out, but it
00:18:08.349 --> 00:18:12.569
depends a bit on the value you have. So indeed,
00:18:12.710 --> 00:18:15.990
we have been invitational sports in Tokyo and
00:18:15.990 --> 00:18:18.490
in Paris. It's in the end, Tokyo will choose
00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:21.769
to invite us. Firstly, Paris confirmed that invitation
00:18:21.769 --> 00:18:26.049
as well. For Los Angeles, the IOC decided to
00:18:26.049 --> 00:18:28.450
include us in the full program, but for Brisbane,
00:18:28.549 --> 00:18:31.690
this confirmation has not been given yet. Of
00:18:31.690 --> 00:18:34.650
course, since we are now a program sport, we
00:18:34.650 --> 00:18:37.750
somehow hope that this means that somehow there
00:18:37.750 --> 00:18:40.390
is a confirmation at least for two, three editions
00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:42.690
in a row, but we don't have that confirmation
00:18:42.690 --> 00:18:46.589
and we still need to show that we are. there
00:18:46.589 --> 00:18:49.470
and that we we deserve to be there so we still
00:18:49.470 --> 00:18:51.589
have an operational challenge there to really
00:18:51.589 --> 00:18:55.410
deliver good games definitely okay so then going
00:18:55.410 --> 00:18:59.009
forward um what kind of changes do you want to
00:18:59.009 --> 00:19:00.930
make or what do you feel like you're most um
00:19:00.930 --> 00:19:05.289
focused on so as as mentioned already before
00:19:05.289 --> 00:19:07.849
i think development is the main one so going
00:19:07.849 --> 00:19:11.789
from Only the operational focus getting to development.
00:19:11.930 --> 00:19:15.190
And I think within development, the most obvious
00:19:15.190 --> 00:19:18.730
way to push development is by education. Up till
00:19:18.730 --> 00:19:21.809
now, IFSC has been focused on education programs
00:19:21.809 --> 00:19:25.890
for root setters and for judges and quite specifically
00:19:25.890 --> 00:19:28.950
on the needs that they have for the events or
00:19:28.950 --> 00:19:31.730
that we as IFSC, I mean, have for the events
00:19:31.730 --> 00:19:34.789
that we organize ourselves. So mainly the World
00:19:34.789 --> 00:19:38.680
Cups and also the Continental event. But in the
00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.819
end, I think that we need to push route setting
00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:44.940
and judging also at the global level for all
00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:46.960
national federations. We need to make sure that
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:50.299
all national federations get the experience from
00:19:50.299 --> 00:19:52.180
the international level, at least brought to
00:19:52.180 --> 00:19:54.720
them. So every national federation should get
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:56.920
the opportunity to have someone who learns at
00:19:56.920 --> 00:19:59.940
least the highest level of route setting or learns
00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:02.440
the highest level of judging and can bring that
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:05.250
experience and that knowledge to there. country
00:20:05.250 --> 00:20:08.430
and make sure that it gets educated there as
00:20:08.430 --> 00:20:11.869
well. But it's not only about route setters and
00:20:11.869 --> 00:20:15.650
about judges. It's also about coaches teaching
00:20:15.650 --> 00:20:19.109
the athletes in how to develop themselves, teaching
00:20:19.109 --> 00:20:22.289
the administrators in how we can market our sport,
00:20:22.470 --> 00:20:25.410
how we can grow our sport, how we make sure that
00:20:25.410 --> 00:20:28.990
we do good safeguarding of all people involved.
00:20:29.170 --> 00:20:31.069
Not only the athletes need safeguarding, everyone
00:20:31.069 --> 00:20:34.539
involved somehow needs to be taken care of. So
00:20:34.539 --> 00:20:37.680
it's really about a lot of different educational
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:40.140
programs that we could launch. I also think,
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.700
for example, of the belayers for lead climbing
00:20:42.700 --> 00:20:45.740
is really important that you have certified belayers
00:20:45.740 --> 00:20:48.279
that really know how to belay in a good way.
00:20:49.339 --> 00:20:52.480
All those kinds of educational programs might
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.220
be very useful for the future. So yeah, I think
00:20:57.220 --> 00:21:01.259
that's the main focus. And then secondly, I think
00:21:01.259 --> 00:21:05.970
also that... For the IFSC and in the end for
00:21:05.970 --> 00:21:08.890
every organization in the world probably, sustainability
00:21:08.890 --> 00:21:12.509
should be a big one. And if I speak of sustainability,
00:21:12.730 --> 00:21:15.390
I don't only talk about the environmental part
00:21:15.390 --> 00:21:18.150
because people tend to say like, oh, sustainability,
00:21:18.369 --> 00:21:20.630
yeah, but it's all about nature. And in the end,
00:21:20.670 --> 00:21:23.150
there is other things that are more important
00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:25.710
for a sports organization. But I believe that
00:21:25.710 --> 00:21:28.029
sustainability, it's about economic, it's about
00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:30.930
social and environmental sustainability. And
00:21:30.930 --> 00:21:33.289
for economic, it means that you create the good.
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.859
economic environment for the sport to flourish.
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.660
So you make sure that there is a structure behind
00:21:40.660 --> 00:21:45.160
that grows and that somehow makes it possible
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.819
to finance ourselves in a better way. So by an
00:21:48.819 --> 00:21:51.740
event model, which has indeed the World Championship
00:21:51.740 --> 00:21:54.839
and the World Cups as main events and the Olympic
00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:57.609
Games above all that. But of course, then you
00:21:57.609 --> 00:22:00.410
also need to have the continental level. You
00:22:00.410 --> 00:22:02.970
need to have a regional level. You need to facilitate
00:22:02.970 --> 00:22:05.529
somehow even the development of national events,
00:22:05.769 --> 00:22:10.029
et cetera, et cetera. Branding around this, marketing
00:22:10.029 --> 00:22:13.549
around this. So making the full economic environment
00:22:13.549 --> 00:22:16.349
and the full structure of how we function, making
00:22:16.349 --> 00:22:20.450
it interesting to maintain in the long run. And
00:22:20.450 --> 00:22:22.589
on the social level, it's about taking care of
00:22:22.589 --> 00:22:25.079
our volunteers. It's about taking care. of the
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:27.519
root setters of the judges making sure that for
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:31.119
example judges and volunteers they get somehow
00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:33.440
the compensation they deserve and that they feel
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:35.819
that they can contribute in a positive way and
00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:38.059
they don't get used but they are really part
00:22:38.059 --> 00:22:42.319
of the family or root setters I've heard of root
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:45.700
setters that also have injuries in the end and
00:22:45.700 --> 00:22:48.259
then you need to make sure that they can work
00:22:48.259 --> 00:22:50.940
in healthy conditions and that they can also
00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:54.269
if they get injured that they don't fall without
00:22:54.269 --> 00:22:56.930
work that they have something to continue living
00:22:56.930 --> 00:23:00.009
um so that's a bit the social part making sure
00:23:00.009 --> 00:23:02.509
that somehow people can live of their passion
00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:05.789
and of course environmental is also part of everything
00:23:05.789 --> 00:23:08.650
because the world we only have one plant but
00:23:08.650 --> 00:23:10.890
i think sustainability it's even more on the
00:23:10.890 --> 00:23:13.369
economic and the social part than the environmental
00:23:13.369 --> 00:23:16.650
part if you do good first two probably the third
00:23:16.650 --> 00:23:20.730
one will also become better because you you use
00:23:20.730 --> 00:23:23.700
better the resources you have you don't abuse
00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:26.359
the resources but you use your resources in a
00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.160
healthy way so that's how i think that sustainability
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:33.799
is important and if i can add one more so there
00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:37.140
was development and education there was sustainability
00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:40.619
in its three different aspects and then lastly
00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:44.359
a focus for me is teamwork and cooperation because
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:47.079
in the end it's not only on board level but i
00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:51.420
mean each and every stakeholder in the full organization
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:54.099
should be part of the team and if you work well
00:23:54.099 --> 00:23:56.059
with the national federations with the continental
00:23:56.059 --> 00:23:58.819
councils with the commissions with the office
00:23:58.819 --> 00:24:02.519
of course with other stakeholders with experts
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:04.700
and if you make sure that each and everyone is
00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:06.940
involved and that there is a sharing of knowledge
00:24:06.940 --> 00:24:09.980
and an exchange of of good habits and and of
00:24:09.980 --> 00:24:12.500
maybe also the mistakes that have been made so
00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:14.880
everyone learns from each other i think that
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.519
will allow the organization to really grow to
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:23.519
to to its best uh potential okay yeah that makes
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:25.940
sense um i guess the main thing that comes to
00:24:25.940 --> 00:24:29.319
mind for me is like the funding issue and it
00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.420
seems like i mean we always talk about how there's
00:24:32.420 --> 00:24:35.019
like not really enough funding in climbing or
00:24:35.019 --> 00:24:38.839
competition climbing specifically um and then
00:24:39.789 --> 00:24:42.769
I think like with funding, you kind of need that
00:24:42.769 --> 00:24:45.329
money there to be able to start like these educational
00:24:45.329 --> 00:24:51.950
processes and everything like that. Do you have
00:24:51.950 --> 00:24:55.289
an idea of like how to increase the funding?
00:24:55.430 --> 00:24:58.690
Because that seems like something that no one
00:24:58.690 --> 00:25:00.930
really knows how to tackle. It's not that no
00:25:00.930 --> 00:25:03.589
one knows. It is indeed a very difficult question,
00:25:03.809 --> 00:25:06.470
but it's the full package that you need to grow
00:25:06.470 --> 00:25:09.710
in order to solve this funding issue. So funding
00:25:09.710 --> 00:25:13.230
indeed is the basis of everything, how you fund
00:25:13.230 --> 00:25:16.150
things. And of course, for example, we largely
00:25:16.150 --> 00:25:20.849
hope or base ourselves on Olympic funding. But
00:25:20.849 --> 00:25:24.130
in the end, we never had a lot of Olympic funding
00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:26.839
and we had to look for other opportunities. So
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:28.980
in the end, over the last 70 years, I believe
00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:31.579
the IFC has done already a very good job in obtaining
00:25:31.579 --> 00:25:33.980
more and more funding and in growing the image
00:25:33.980 --> 00:25:36.440
of the sport. So that's one thing you need to
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:38.880
work on, on the different revenue streams that
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.500
you might have. And I think there has been done
00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:44.460
already a very good job till now, but we can
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:46.740
still do more if you really work on a good event
00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:49.460
model. And if at next to that event model, you
00:25:49.460 --> 00:25:52.119
do good branding and you do good marketing, you
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:56.130
can find more. than we have nowadays. And over
00:25:56.130 --> 00:25:58.130
the last years, we have seen that there has been
00:25:58.130 --> 00:26:02.630
some interesting new deals happening. One clear
00:26:02.630 --> 00:26:05.390
example is that in Europe, now we are on Eurosport.
00:26:05.690 --> 00:26:09.990
And Eurosport gives the possibility to millions
00:26:09.990 --> 00:26:12.990
and millions of viewers to watch our sport. So
00:26:12.990 --> 00:26:15.210
somehow the importance of our sport has grown
00:26:15.210 --> 00:26:17.990
over the last years. And that's the way we need
00:26:17.990 --> 00:26:20.529
to go. And I definitely believe that with our
00:26:20.529 --> 00:26:22.970
appearance in the Tokyo Games, in Paris Games,
00:26:23.309 --> 00:26:28.150
this is even pushed furthermore. So it is by
00:26:28.150 --> 00:26:31.569
making good events, by doing good branding around
00:26:31.569 --> 00:26:34.470
events, by doing good marketing, that we will
00:26:34.470 --> 00:26:37.250
manage at IOC level. But in the end, you also
00:26:37.250 --> 00:26:39.730
allow the same happening at continental level
00:26:39.730 --> 00:26:43.539
and the same happening at national level. Just
00:26:43.539 --> 00:26:46.460
to explain at continental level in Europe, we
00:26:46.460 --> 00:26:50.319
started a YouTube channel two or three years
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:53.400
ago. I'm not 100 % certain when we started. But
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:56.079
so in the past, we didn't have this specific
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:58.779
European YouTube channel for our European Youth
00:26:58.779 --> 00:27:01.519
Cups and for our European Cups. But that's also
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.220
making sure that we get more visibility at the
00:27:04.220 --> 00:27:06.700
continental level. If you have visibility, you
00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:08.480
can build an image. If you have an image, you
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:10.779
can do good branding around this and you can
00:27:10.779 --> 00:27:13.890
do marketing around this. That's one example,
00:27:13.970 --> 00:27:17.430
or at national level, since we are in Europe
00:27:17.430 --> 00:27:19.769
now on Eurosport, and I believe in other continents
00:27:19.769 --> 00:27:22.509
there is also more and more visibility. So since
00:27:22.509 --> 00:27:25.250
you are more visible on the television, in the
00:27:25.250 --> 00:27:28.250
end, as a national federation, you can also look
00:27:28.250 --> 00:27:30.369
for more visibility for your national events.
00:27:30.589 --> 00:27:34.109
The overall knowledge of the public of the sport
00:27:34.109 --> 00:27:37.359
is growing. So yeah, this creates more and more
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.500
possibilities. That's for the event side. And
00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:42.599
since you also mentioned the educational side,
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:46.920
I want to dig into that as well. For me, education
00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:51.220
doesn't need to be for free a root setter. He
00:27:51.220 --> 00:27:53.539
makes his living out of it. It's a profession.
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.440
So if you follow a professional education, you
00:27:56.440 --> 00:27:59.500
can pay for it. It doesn't need to be a hyper
00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:03.910
expensive neither. Up till now, I think lots
00:28:03.910 --> 00:28:07.690
of these programs have been financed by solidarity
00:28:07.690 --> 00:28:12.250
programs. But why can't we ask a little contribution
00:28:12.250 --> 00:28:15.470
of the ones following the courses so that somehow
00:28:15.470 --> 00:28:20.769
we create a budget or an auto -financing system,
00:28:20.849 --> 00:28:24.180
I would say. everyone who follows an educational
00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:26.559
program he pays a little bit we get a little
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:28.559
bit of gain out of this and this gain we can
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.400
automatically reinvest in more educational programs
00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:34.039
and this in all the different kinds of courses
00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:37.839
so in this way I think we can really find with
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:43.480
the IFC many ways of creating revenue and if
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.940
we keep investing everything in further development
00:28:47.940 --> 00:28:51.789
I don't think this is wrong to do I guess the
00:28:51.789 --> 00:28:55.750
thing that comes to mind about that is I've heard
00:28:55.750 --> 00:28:58.069
that maybe the route setters don't get paid so
00:28:58.069 --> 00:29:03.509
much for setting for like IFSC events or yeah,
00:29:03.569 --> 00:29:06.529
I guess mainly for like IFSC events I don't know
00:29:06.529 --> 00:29:10.250
about for the Olympics. So if they have to also
00:29:10.250 --> 00:29:13.170
like pay for their development, does that kind
00:29:13.170 --> 00:29:17.069
of create like a... what's the word i guess like
00:29:17.069 --> 00:29:20.930
a barrier for certain people to improve their
00:29:20.930 --> 00:29:25.710
skills okay so i i definitely agree that we could
00:29:25.710 --> 00:29:28.990
or we should maybe be able to pay people more
00:29:28.990 --> 00:29:31.269
for what they do and i'm not talking only about
00:29:31.269 --> 00:29:33.910
the roots and there is also judges there is many
00:29:33.910 --> 00:29:36.730
many people involved that maybe deserve to get
00:29:36.730 --> 00:29:39.339
more but it all starts from what you you have
00:29:39.339 --> 00:29:41.460
as income, then you can see how much you can
00:29:41.460 --> 00:29:44.880
give as outgoing towards people as well. I believe
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.279
it has grown over the last 17 years already.
00:29:48.579 --> 00:29:51.099
So we're going into the good direction and I
00:29:51.099 --> 00:29:53.240
think we need to continue this. So that's the
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:55.619
first thing. I definitely agree that people deserve
00:29:55.619 --> 00:30:01.640
to earn fair money. Secondly, do you make it
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:04.700
or do you create a barrier if you ask people
00:30:04.700 --> 00:30:08.460
to pay for education? I don't think so. As long
00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:12.599
as this helps to make the education qualitative,
00:30:13.099 --> 00:30:15.740
I think it's a win. Because in the end, you make
00:30:15.740 --> 00:30:18.740
sure that people obtain diplomas or experience,
00:30:19.019 --> 00:30:21.900
which will help them to be better in their jobs.
00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:26.619
And in the end, it's not only the IFSC events,
00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:30.039
it's only a small part of the events that happen
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:32.259
worldwide and the commercial routes. I think
00:30:32.259 --> 00:30:35.299
it's even next to that, a completely different
00:30:35.299 --> 00:30:39.000
story. So I think if you allow people to get
00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.740
the experience and the knowledge to do well their
00:30:41.740 --> 00:30:46.200
jobs, then asking, I definitely said a small
00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.579
amount or a small contribution. I didn't say
00:30:48.579 --> 00:30:52.200
a huge amount. It should be a bit more than break
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:55.680
even in the end. And that way, I think we can
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:57.960
make more courses happen. We can educate more
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:02.000
people. These people go back to where they live
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.440
and work with more knowledge and more experience.
00:31:05.019 --> 00:31:09.319
So somehow it will allow a cascading effect for
00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:13.119
growing the sport. Sounds good. And then also
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:15.680
earlier when you were talking about like the
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.160
Eurosport deal for funding, I'm in the US, so
00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:21.339
I don't know too much about that. I still just
00:31:21.339 --> 00:31:25.460
watch it on YouTube. Yeah, I definitely know
00:31:25.460 --> 00:31:28.579
that there was a lot of talk about Eurosport
00:31:28.579 --> 00:31:32.079
and the difficulties it made for some people
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:37.539
in Europe to watch climbing. What has been the
00:31:37.539 --> 00:31:40.599
outcome of that deal? Do you find that it's been
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:46.480
positive? Is it easy to watch on the channel?
00:31:46.940 --> 00:31:49.470
Has it increased viewership? Yeah, definitely.
00:31:49.710 --> 00:31:52.910
So in the end, indeed, there has been a lot of
00:31:52.910 --> 00:31:56.410
talks because of Eurosport, we had to geoblock
00:31:56.410 --> 00:31:59.470
the YouTube channel in Europe, which is somehow
00:31:59.470 --> 00:32:02.670
sad because you don't allow your nearest friends
00:32:02.670 --> 00:32:05.589
and family to watch it for free on YouTube and
00:32:05.589 --> 00:32:09.829
you need to pay to view it on Eurosport. But
00:32:09.829 --> 00:32:13.130
in the end, the numbers of people that can watch
00:32:13.130 --> 00:32:17.589
sport climbing on Eurosport are completely different
00:32:17.589 --> 00:32:20.549
to the numbers that we obtain if we use our youtube
00:32:20.549 --> 00:32:25.369
channel so somehow you just give um the sport
00:32:25.369 --> 00:32:31.150
a much wider um coverage or no not coverage i
00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:34.170
mean there's just many more people that are watching
00:32:34.170 --> 00:32:36.089
the sport that are getting interested in the
00:32:36.089 --> 00:32:39.779
sport It's about millions of people. I don't
00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:42.539
have the exact numbers. Fabrizio Rossini from
00:32:42.539 --> 00:32:45.839
the office, the communications, head of communications,
00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:48.240
he knows the exact numbers and the difference
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:51.880
is just huge. So yeah, I think it definitely
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:55.740
makes a difference. And yeah, it makes the difference
00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:57.720
that people in the streets nowadays can talk
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:01.109
about climbing. They know bouldering. They don't
00:33:01.109 --> 00:33:03.410
lead climbing. They definitely know speed climbing,
00:33:03.549 --> 00:33:07.190
which still is the most easy to appreciate, apparently.
00:33:07.809 --> 00:33:10.569
But yeah, it helps. It makes a huge difference.
00:33:10.990 --> 00:33:15.910
Okay, so then I guess going into one of the more...
00:33:16.970 --> 00:33:21.309
harder issues that I had in mind, also sort of
00:33:21.309 --> 00:33:24.410
related to viewership. Do you have any thoughts
00:33:24.410 --> 00:33:27.809
on some of the biggest athletes taking a step
00:33:27.809 --> 00:33:31.130
back from competitions after the Olympics? I
00:33:31.130 --> 00:33:33.970
think like Janja and Brooke said that they might
00:33:33.970 --> 00:33:37.569
be going to fewer World Cups this year. Is this
00:33:37.569 --> 00:33:40.369
like concerning to you that a lot of the big
00:33:40.369 --> 00:33:43.619
names are? stepping away. Please excuse this
00:33:43.619 --> 00:33:45.599
brief intermission, but if you're interested
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:47.640
in deleted scenes from this episode where we
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:50.079
talk about the unexpected politics that come
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:52.180
with the role, for example, with dealing with
00:33:52.180 --> 00:33:54.680
the Ukraine war, do consider helping support
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a membership pin shipped to you after two months,
00:34:00.579 --> 00:34:03.279
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submit video questions and a board to come. The
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proceeds go back into the podcast to help me
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of the guests if you'd like to help out non -monetarily
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:16.639
liking commenting and sharing helps a great deal
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:19.579
as well back to the show first of all i think
00:34:19.579 --> 00:34:22.559
that we really cannot imagine the pressure that
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:24.960
the athletes at the olympic games they live and
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:27.420
i think we need to respect them for that we need
00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:31.179
to understand that after this intense build -up
00:34:31.179 --> 00:34:33.820
towards the olympic games they tend to need a
00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:36.719
rest not only for their body but also for their
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.840
mind So it's a logical thing that happens in
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:42.599
all sports, all Olympic sports. You see that
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:45.380
people have this kind of build -up towards a
00:34:45.380 --> 00:34:47.920
peak of four years and then afterwards there
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:51.179
is quite a slowdown in performance and also in
00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:54.539
participation. So yeah, we can only respect that
00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:59.619
and that's what happens. I think a solution for
00:34:59.619 --> 00:35:02.800
this issue, if you call it an issue, is having
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:06.280
a good long -term calendar. where somehow we
00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:09.420
plan our events also accordingly, that we include
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:11.880
the fact that indeed an Olympic Games is a high
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:13.860
point in the career of an athlete. Sometimes
00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:16.059
they even build up eight years towards it or
00:35:16.059 --> 00:35:20.280
they dream from it if they are born. So it's
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.900
a high point, definitely. And we need to follow
00:35:22.900 --> 00:35:25.739
this rhythm, I think, in the calendar that we
00:35:25.739 --> 00:35:28.159
make, a long -term calendar on all levels, on
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.320
the continental level, at the world level. So
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:35.400
planning our events in a smart way. Not only
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:37.440
within the Olympic year, because in the Olympic
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:39.940
year, indeed, last year we had the European Championship
00:35:39.940 --> 00:35:42.920
only a few weeks after the Olympic Games. It
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:45.739
wasn't the smartest move maybe, but it was still
00:35:45.739 --> 00:35:48.420
a successful event. But maybe we could have planned
00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:51.079
it differently and we could have had other champions
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:55.260
be participating as well. So yeah, making a good
00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:57.699
long -term calendar in the year itself, but also
00:35:57.699 --> 00:36:01.000
over the four years might be a solution. And
00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:04.590
then secondly, I think also... if we make sure
00:36:04.590 --> 00:36:06.449
that our own events, the World Championship,
00:36:06.809 --> 00:36:09.550
the World Cups and being the overall winner of
00:36:09.550 --> 00:36:11.730
the World Cup or being the number one of that
00:36:11.730 --> 00:36:15.530
week or of that month of that year, somehow if
00:36:15.530 --> 00:36:19.690
this has a value or more of a value, then I think
00:36:19.690 --> 00:36:22.730
also athletes will plan accordingly and make
00:36:22.730 --> 00:36:27.050
sure that they build up within their full program
00:36:27.050 --> 00:36:31.010
towards these kind of events. Yeah, how do you
00:36:31.010 --> 00:36:35.170
think... we can build more value into winning
00:36:35.170 --> 00:36:37.650
a world cup or the world champs. Cause I know
00:36:37.650 --> 00:36:39.989
a lot of people have mentioned that world cups
00:36:39.989 --> 00:36:41.949
used to feel like the biggest thing or world
00:36:41.949 --> 00:36:43.690
champs used to feel like the biggest thing that
00:36:43.690 --> 00:36:46.690
people, um, really want to strive for. And then
00:36:46.690 --> 00:36:48.869
since the Olympics have come into play, it just
00:36:48.869 --> 00:36:51.230
doesn't really seem like people care about it
00:36:51.230 --> 00:36:55.619
anymore. I think in many sports, the Olympic
00:36:55.619 --> 00:36:58.159
Games are simply the biggest goal to achieve.
00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:00.559
It's so unique. You can only have it every four
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:02.940
years. You need to be a selected sport to be
00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:05.440
part of it as well. So this value of the Olympic
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:09.980
Games, it's clearly unbeatable somehow. But then
00:37:09.980 --> 00:37:13.420
still, our own events, the World Championship
00:37:13.420 --> 00:37:16.440
and then the World Cups, how do you give them
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:20.489
value? The easy answer is the prize money. Of
00:37:20.489 --> 00:37:22.789
course, by growing prize money, by making sure
00:37:22.789 --> 00:37:24.949
that people get also prize money for the overall
00:37:24.949 --> 00:37:28.269
title or maybe for being number one. But also,
00:37:28.349 --> 00:37:32.030
if we make sure that the visibility of our events,
00:37:32.230 --> 00:37:34.190
that the branding of our events, the marketing
00:37:34.190 --> 00:37:37.190
around this, give more value to these events,
00:37:37.269 --> 00:37:39.829
then somehow it's also more interesting for sponsors
00:37:39.829 --> 00:37:43.019
to have athletes that are. performing well at
00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:44.940
world cup events and maybe they don't manage
00:37:44.940 --> 00:37:47.699
to be the olympic champion but they are performing
00:37:47.699 --> 00:37:50.300
at at world cup events and that way they are
00:37:50.300 --> 00:37:53.280
interesting persons so it's not only directly
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:56.119
in our own event with the prize money but it's
00:37:56.119 --> 00:38:00.519
also by making the image of our events a better
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:03.739
image or a more interesting image that the value
00:38:03.739 --> 00:38:07.559
for sponsors gets bigger and and that way for
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:09.719
an athlete it becomes more interesting to be
00:38:10.170 --> 00:38:13.650
a world cup winner because yeah it makes them
00:38:13.650 --> 00:38:16.409
possible to to make a living out of their passion
00:38:16.409 --> 00:38:19.289
being a competition climber okay yeah that makes
00:38:19.289 --> 00:38:22.530
sense yeah definitely adding exposure um would
00:38:22.530 --> 00:38:26.570
help as well in terms of like non -immediate
00:38:26.570 --> 00:38:30.710
monetary funding in terms of prize money Okay,
00:38:30.829 --> 00:38:34.349
so next issue I wanted to get into, this is about
00:38:34.349 --> 00:38:39.010
like the new rule limiting participants per country
00:38:39.010 --> 00:38:43.190
from like bigger climbing federations. What are
00:38:43.190 --> 00:38:45.469
your thoughts on that? A lot of people don't
00:38:45.469 --> 00:38:50.050
necessarily believe in like wanting to just have
00:38:50.050 --> 00:38:53.289
more climbers come in just for the sake of them
00:38:53.289 --> 00:38:57.139
getting like experience. It's a very difficult
00:38:57.139 --> 00:38:59.800
exercise to make. In the end, we want indeed
00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:02.420
the best climbers to be able to participate at
00:39:02.420 --> 00:39:05.420
the highest level competitions. But on the other
00:39:05.420 --> 00:39:07.820
side, we also want to make it possible for all
00:39:07.820 --> 00:39:10.019
national federations to grow, to get experience,
00:39:10.300 --> 00:39:14.880
to be at the highest level of competitions and
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:17.940
to get connected with their NOCs, for example.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:22.099
I mean, their National Olympic Committees. And
00:39:22.099 --> 00:39:24.960
so it's a very difficult exercise to be made.
00:39:25.469 --> 00:39:28.429
But even before this year, there was already
00:39:28.429 --> 00:39:31.250
a quota for many countries. There were already
00:39:31.250 --> 00:39:34.869
difficulties. I believe that, okay, clearly for
00:39:34.869 --> 00:39:37.829
now, Japan is the clear example as being the
00:39:37.829 --> 00:39:40.730
ones who get the biggest disadvantage of the
00:39:40.730 --> 00:39:43.690
new rule. But I think in the big countries like
00:39:43.690 --> 00:39:49.860
France, like Slovenia. There is issues with people
00:39:49.860 --> 00:39:52.619
being very performant that don't manage to get
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:54.980
into the competitions that they would like to
00:39:54.980 --> 00:39:57.860
participate in because of quota. I remember also
00:39:57.860 --> 00:40:00.280
last year at the Olympic qualifying series, the
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:04.659
fight between the three French athletes for the
00:40:04.659 --> 00:40:07.280
two sports. So there is also at the Olympic level,
00:40:07.380 --> 00:40:11.880
there is this quota problem. So it happens. Now,
00:40:12.019 --> 00:40:15.639
what is the solution for it? I don't know yet.
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:17.699
It's an exercise that we need to make with the
00:40:17.699 --> 00:40:19.800
national federations, with the commissions. We
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:21.780
need to have discussions about, okay, how do
00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:25.480
we want to proceed with this? And it's all about
00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:27.960
this event model that I was talking about before
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:30.440
as well. You need a pyramid with a world championship
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:33.820
as main event at IFC level, world cups, you have
00:40:33.820 --> 00:40:35.920
continental cups, regional cups, and how you
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.179
build up towards that. That's to be discussed.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:43.010
In the end, do we really need to have... full
00:40:43.010 --> 00:40:44.989
quota for each and every national federation
00:40:44.989 --> 00:40:47.829
in the world championship or at the world cup
00:40:47.829 --> 00:40:51.530
level in the future it's a question mark i don't
00:40:51.530 --> 00:40:53.550
have the answer we could also go to a system
00:40:53.550 --> 00:40:55.869
where the world ranking defines who can participate
00:40:55.869 --> 00:41:00.110
in the um in the highest level events but then
00:41:00.110 --> 00:41:02.130
you need a world ranking system which allows
00:41:02.130 --> 00:41:05.510
people to get enough points to reach this level
00:41:05.510 --> 00:41:07.510
of those who are participating in the highest
00:41:07.510 --> 00:41:11.219
level competitions so it's a full puzzle that
00:41:11.219 --> 00:41:13.380
you need to make and it's not an easy exercise
00:41:13.380 --> 00:41:17.320
and i think we just need to have this this discussion
00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:19.880
and it will take some more time and this year
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.280
there has been made a choice it's definitely
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:26.219
a pity for some of the best climbers of the world
00:41:26.219 --> 00:41:30.639
but yeah we have to discuss this further more
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:33.639
and see what what the best solutions seem to
00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:37.840
be and try out Okay, so other than that, the
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:41.039
next issue I think people are always talking
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:48.679
about is the Red S policy. I know that the new
00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:52.039
policy went into effect earlier in the season.
00:41:52.940 --> 00:41:56.199
How do you think it has been working? Do you
00:41:56.199 --> 00:41:59.019
know if people have actually been flagged for
00:41:59.019 --> 00:42:02.420
it or if any action has been taken place? Obviously
00:42:02.420 --> 00:42:05.280
not like specific names, but just whether it's
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:08.960
really been implemented. So I think that IFC
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:12.800
has been a pioneer in this approach. So we're
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.300
trying something new. And as everything that
00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:18.139
is new, you might have childhood diseases in
00:42:18.139 --> 00:42:20.639
it. So I won't say that it's a perfect system.
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:24.300
But I think somehow what the new approach to
00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:28.760
the Red S issue allowed is there is more open
00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:33.400
talks about it. Definitely, there is more consciousness
00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:36.179
about the topic. And I think also with the athletes,
00:42:36.340 --> 00:42:38.780
it's become less of a taboo to talk with it.
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:41.300
I think more and more national federations are
00:42:41.300 --> 00:42:47.940
now having a medical person. nominated to do
00:42:47.940 --> 00:42:49.860
the follow -up of their athletes there has been
00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:52.659
talks with athletes that are maybe becoming into
00:42:52.659 --> 00:42:56.519
the danger zone so i think that's very positive
00:42:56.519 --> 00:43:01.340
evolution for the sport so it's it's less of
00:43:01.340 --> 00:43:04.460
a taboo there is clear talks with athletes about
00:43:04.460 --> 00:43:08.000
how they are dealing with these kind of topics
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.480
and i Also believe that at World Cup level, there
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:15.860
has been tests done, I think, with over 300 athletes,
00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:19.280
300 tests last year. There has been talks with
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:22.800
specific athletes that are maybe slightly between
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:27.420
the green and the orange or that are getting
00:43:27.420 --> 00:43:30.519
into the danger zone, but not there yet. So I
00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:33.039
definitely think that we are making huge steps
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:35.400
in the good direction. But I also believe that
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:38.300
we need to continue evaluating the system. in
00:43:38.300 --> 00:43:40.059
contact with the athletes through the athletes
00:43:40.059 --> 00:43:42.800
commission or even each athlete every athlete
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:45.539
that wants to talk about it should be and is
00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:48.159
probably also invited by the medical commission
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:51.699
to talk with them we should talk with coaches
00:43:51.699 --> 00:43:54.300
we should talk with medical experts i think the
00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:56.739
medical commission is doing a really good job
00:43:56.739 --> 00:44:00.179
here in europe we also started a health and safeguarding
00:44:00.179 --> 00:44:02.219
commission which focuses more on the prevention
00:44:02.219 --> 00:44:06.869
side so that we can educate more coaches and
00:44:06.869 --> 00:44:10.429
youth athletes and athletes widely about this
00:44:10.429 --> 00:44:13.269
topic. So I think attacking the prevention side
00:44:13.269 --> 00:44:16.710
of it is very important as well. For example,
00:44:16.829 --> 00:44:19.590
at the European Championship last year in the
00:44:19.590 --> 00:44:22.949
Athletes Forum, we had a presentation made by
00:44:22.949 --> 00:44:25.909
the Health and Safeguarding Commission where
00:44:25.909 --> 00:44:31.320
there was a testimony made by Beth Rolland. about
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:35.840
how she lived her climbing career and on this
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:38.300
topic. And there was also an intervention from
00:44:38.300 --> 00:44:43.320
psychologist Mina Markovic who clearly has competition
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:46.639
experience and could talk from her own experiences
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:49.659
as well. So I think these kind of interactions
00:44:49.659 --> 00:44:52.760
with athletes, they are really rich and that's
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:56.289
the way we need to continue moving forward. So
00:44:56.289 --> 00:44:59.070
yeah, Red S, it's a very difficult topic. I think
00:44:59.070 --> 00:45:01.710
IFC is pioneering it. We should be proud of what
00:45:01.710 --> 00:45:03.809
we are doing, but we should be critical about
00:45:03.809 --> 00:45:06.590
how we keep pushing it to become better and better.
00:45:06.809 --> 00:45:10.570
That's shortly my opinion on this topic. I had
00:45:10.570 --> 00:45:14.050
recently interviewed someone who mentioned that
00:45:14.050 --> 00:45:20.070
there's no policy in the youth. uh youth climbing
00:45:20.070 --> 00:45:23.670
um and that that's maybe like an important part
00:45:23.670 --> 00:45:28.789
to consider because like a lot of these um habits
00:45:28.789 --> 00:45:31.750
and like eating habits and eating disorders take
00:45:31.750 --> 00:45:34.969
place when they're growing up and it's not like
00:45:34.969 --> 00:45:37.670
it's something that develops once they've like
00:45:37.670 --> 00:45:41.389
gotten older um it starts earlier than that um
00:45:41.389 --> 00:45:45.059
so do you have any any thoughts there Yeah, it's
00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:47.539
very difficult to put a policy in place for the
00:45:47.539 --> 00:45:50.760
youth categories because you need somehow comparable
00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:53.920
data and you need to make it fair for each and
00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:56.460
everyone, no matter where you live, et cetera,
00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:58.880
et cetera. So it's really a difficult question
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:01.340
to put this in place for the youth. But I think
00:46:01.340 --> 00:46:03.679
somehow for the youth, it's even more important
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:06.239
to have the preventive approach and it's by education.
00:46:06.940 --> 00:46:08.920
It's educating the coaches. It's making sure
00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:11.119
that each and everyone takes also his responsibility.
00:46:11.300 --> 00:46:13.940
It's national federations, coaches, parents,
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:16.659
the people around those athletes that somehow
00:46:16.659 --> 00:46:20.400
create the circumstances in which they grow.
00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:24.159
And it's also by making it no taboo anymore that
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:27.519
we somehow allow it to be less of an issue. So
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:32.159
yeah, I think rather than seeking for the policy
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:35.440
for the youth events, it's about making sure
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.559
that we do this. preventive approach and of course
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:41.059
if we manage to put a policy in place for our
00:46:41.059 --> 00:46:44.960
our youth events then we will do it but i think
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:46.800
it's more important to work on the preventive
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:49.940
prevention side yeah no i think that makes sense
00:46:49.940 --> 00:46:53.199
um yeah because i guess like in terms of like
00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:56.039
youth athletes i don't know when they're like
00:46:56.039 --> 00:46:59.119
growing at such different speeds at like every
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:02.980
age it's like kind of hard to make um an overall
00:47:02.980 --> 00:47:06.099
like call in terms of what's considered healthy
00:47:06.099 --> 00:47:08.599
or not. Yeah. And they have their growth spurt
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:11.099
at different moments. They have different morphology
00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:14.300
from the basis. Also, they are very vulnerable
00:47:14.300 --> 00:47:18.239
to being, how you say it, so the moment they
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:21.420
get a stamp on their forehead, it's really difficult
00:47:21.420 --> 00:47:24.480
for them to cope with. So we need to be really
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:27.059
careful with the youth athletes and we need to
00:47:27.059 --> 00:47:30.659
approach them in a very smart way. Whereas at
00:47:30.659 --> 00:47:33.320
adult level, they are more grown up. It's more
00:47:33.320 --> 00:47:37.619
stable. Normally, it should already somehow be
00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:42.119
all arranged. But then still, if there is red
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:44.460
flags appearing, then we should act. So I think
00:47:44.460 --> 00:47:48.760
having a more aggressive approach towards adults,
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.360
it's a logical thing. Whereas for youth, really,
00:47:52.420 --> 00:47:54.739
we need to be cautious and we need to, really,
00:47:54.940 --> 00:47:57.000
all of us, we need to take our responsibility
00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:01.320
and do it in a healthy way. Knowing that in the
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:03.440
end, the long term effects are more important
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:07.199
than the short term metals. Yeah, makes sense.
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:10.300
And yeah, I think also just like getting rid
00:48:10.300 --> 00:48:13.780
of the taboo and like talking about it more makes
00:48:13.780 --> 00:48:16.340
people feel more comfortable with like coming
00:48:16.340 --> 00:48:18.079
forward with their stories or coming forward
00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:20.840
if they do think they have an issue. So yeah,
00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:24.179
I think that makes sense. So the last hot topic
00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:27.199
issue that I wanted to get into was about the
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:30.260
Neon Beach Games. I know there was a lot of talk
00:48:30.260 --> 00:48:34.420
about that in the past few years. So yeah, I
00:48:34.420 --> 00:48:36.039
think there were some people who were pretty
00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:38.500
upset about it. And in general, what are your
00:48:38.500 --> 00:48:41.659
thoughts on hosting events in countries that
00:48:41.659 --> 00:48:44.989
are sort of controversial? okay so first of all
00:48:44.989 --> 00:48:48.070
the Neon games indeed we have had them for two
00:48:48.070 --> 00:48:50.110
years in a row and there was some controversy
00:48:50.110 --> 00:48:53.769
about it clearly now this year the Neon games
00:48:53.769 --> 00:48:56.150
aren't on the schedule anymore so somehow this
00:48:56.150 --> 00:49:00.090
simplifies the topic that specific topic but
00:49:00.090 --> 00:49:03.929
in general if there is controversy about competitions
00:49:03.929 --> 00:49:07.469
happening in one or a specific country I think
00:49:07.469 --> 00:49:09.909
most important to keep in mind is that somehow
00:49:09.909 --> 00:49:13.190
if IFC organizes a competition, it is always
00:49:13.190 --> 00:49:15.590
together with the National Federation, which
00:49:15.590 --> 00:49:19.170
is aligned with the values that we all share
00:49:19.170 --> 00:49:21.650
within the climbing community. And so if we do
00:49:21.650 --> 00:49:23.469
it together with the National Federation, then
00:49:23.469 --> 00:49:25.550
this means also that they organize it with the
00:49:25.550 --> 00:49:28.769
spirit of mind and they somehow also share these.
00:49:29.340 --> 00:49:31.960
uh values with the the audience that will be
00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:34.639
there the way they organize it and somehow it
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:37.679
even helps us to promote the values of of climbing
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:41.300
and of our community so uh on in general i would
00:49:41.300 --> 00:49:44.219
say that for the neon games we won't have the
00:49:44.219 --> 00:49:46.860
controversy anymore because it's not on the schedule
00:49:46.860 --> 00:49:49.179
anymore and even in the future these kind of
00:49:49.179 --> 00:49:51.679
things happen i hope really that all people Keep
00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:53.820
in mind that, yeah, we're a climbing family,
00:49:53.980 --> 00:49:56.639
a climbing community. We all share the same values
00:49:56.639 --> 00:50:00.960
and it's by being present in other places where
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:03.440
there is maybe other opinions that we at least
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:06.059
show the opinions we have and we can show also
00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:09.300
the way we want to live in this world. So I think
00:50:09.300 --> 00:50:11.860
it's only beneficial to be anywhere in the world.
00:50:13.099 --> 00:50:17.159
So that's my basic idea on this topic. Perfect.
00:50:17.179 --> 00:50:20.239
Thank you for that. Okay, so I think those were
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:23.340
most of the issues that I wanted to cover. Now
00:50:23.340 --> 00:50:25.739
going into some of the Discord questions that
00:50:25.739 --> 00:50:28.739
came through. Some of these will be a little
00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:32.599
bit more chill, I guess. So no worries there.
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:36.260
The first one, what changes do you think we'll
00:50:36.260 --> 00:50:38.840
see to World Cup formats as the sport grows?
00:50:40.380 --> 00:50:42.579
You said that it wasn't going to be an easy question.
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:49.039
Less political, I guess, maybe. Yeah, less political,
00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:52.960
maybe. But it's hard to look in the future. So,
00:50:53.059 --> 00:50:55.800
yeah, I don't know. It all depends on how we
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:57.980
want to grow our sport. As mentioned somewhere
00:50:57.980 --> 00:51:00.559
before in the interview, I believe that maybe
00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:02.800
it is an option in the future to have a World
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:05.219
Cup participation based upon world ranking and
00:51:05.219 --> 00:51:07.849
not necessarily a national quota. I guess, like,
00:51:07.909 --> 00:51:10.329
what does that entail if it's just based on world
00:51:10.329 --> 00:51:13.289
ranking? So, for example, if we really manage
00:51:13.289 --> 00:51:16.190
to put up the best show, if we only invite the
00:51:16.190 --> 00:51:20.289
80 best of the world, then somehow we limit ourselves.
00:51:20.389 --> 00:51:22.710
We cannot allow each and every national federation
00:51:22.710 --> 00:51:24.909
to have participants there. It's a bit like in
00:51:24.909 --> 00:51:27.530
tennis, the Grand Slams. It's only the best ones
00:51:27.530 --> 00:51:31.179
who reach the top tier of the... of the the event
00:51:31.179 --> 00:51:34.079
automatically okay you can have people through
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:37.079
qualification maybe some someone get into the
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:39.760
the final weeks of the grand slams as well the
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:42.860
same kind of scheme could work for climbing but
00:51:42.860 --> 00:51:45.239
it's we need to discuss it really well and i
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:46.900
don't think it will happen in the first four
00:51:46.900 --> 00:51:49.940
years it's a discussion that need to be had but
00:51:49.940 --> 00:51:52.659
that's somehow the qualification to system towards
00:51:52.659 --> 00:51:55.860
our own events that might be a change then i
00:51:55.860 --> 00:52:00.039
think uh if we really talk disciplines speed
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:04.860
and lead are more or less stable disciplines
00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:07.579
but on the bouldering level clearly this year
00:52:07.579 --> 00:52:10.659
there will be the point system applied and we
00:52:10.659 --> 00:52:13.519
need to evaluate that and see how that will develop
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:20.400
so those kind of changes it's minor changes I
00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:22.519
think in the future because the disciplines they
00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:26.980
have their history already but we need to tweak
00:52:26.980 --> 00:52:30.949
them slightly maybe And of course, para climbing,
00:52:31.150 --> 00:52:33.030
that's a big question, how that will develop
00:52:33.030 --> 00:52:36.510
over the upcoming years. What will the impact
00:52:36.510 --> 00:52:40.989
be of the Paralympic categories? Because of course,
00:52:40.989 --> 00:52:43.849
we don't want to lose any category that we have,
00:52:43.949 --> 00:52:46.789
because I think it's a really rich family of
00:52:46.789 --> 00:52:52.150
people inside the climbing community. So we need
00:52:52.150 --> 00:52:54.570
to anticipate as well, and we need to work really
00:52:54.570 --> 00:52:57.650
well to make sure that each and every... climber
00:52:57.650 --> 00:52:59.869
who has climbing in his heart can continue to
00:52:59.869 --> 00:53:02.949
compete if he wants to yeah I think when you
00:53:02.949 --> 00:53:05.030
mentioned like the tennis stuff I just remembered
00:53:05.030 --> 00:53:09.070
I watched like some random YouTube video about
00:53:09.070 --> 00:53:14.690
like tennis athletes and participation and funding
00:53:14.690 --> 00:53:18.409
in terms of career and I just remember saying
00:53:18.409 --> 00:53:21.030
that I mean obviously in tennis if you're like
00:53:21.030 --> 00:53:22.969
one of the top players you make like millions
00:53:22.969 --> 00:53:27.159
and millions of dollars but For anyone who's
00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:31.039
like not at that like most elite level, like
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:33.860
the top, I don't know, 10 people or something
00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:36.719
like that. It's just like a really expensive
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:39.760
sport to like participate in and there's like
00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:42.920
no money there. So yeah, I guess I'm not really
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:45.219
sure if that's something I would want to do.
00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:47.860
Me neither. And that's really a discussion we
00:53:47.860 --> 00:53:50.199
need to have. We need to evaluate the options.
00:53:51.449 --> 00:53:54.570
Somehow it is a reality as well that sport isn't
00:53:54.570 --> 00:53:59.849
necessarily such an example. We have in Belgium
00:53:59.849 --> 00:54:03.429
an ex -Olympic champion, world record holder
00:54:03.429 --> 00:54:09.050
in the 100 meters breaststroke, who now is selling
00:54:09.050 --> 00:54:13.610
shoes as his work, day -to -day work. Another
00:54:13.610 --> 00:54:16.650
one who's coming from judo, who made bronze medal
00:54:16.650 --> 00:54:20.880
in the end of the 90s. He's now a police officer.
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:25.219
So in the end, getting rich from sport, it's
00:54:25.219 --> 00:54:28.340
really difficult and it's somehow for the happy
00:54:28.340 --> 00:54:31.340
few. But if with the IFSC, we can manage to make
00:54:31.340 --> 00:54:34.599
a structure where we have more happy fews and
00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:38.179
where overall the full scope of our organization
00:54:38.179 --> 00:54:40.480
with the route setters, with the judges, people
00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:44.590
are... able to at least participate in a good
00:54:44.590 --> 00:54:47.110
way in the sport and somehow make a living out
00:54:47.110 --> 00:54:50.570
of it or at least it's a healthy way of living
00:54:50.570 --> 00:54:54.829
that would be a good thing but yeah it's impossible
00:54:54.829 --> 00:55:01.190
to make it for all athletes uh easy to to earn
00:55:01.190 --> 00:55:03.230
a lot of money that's that's impossible but we
00:55:03.230 --> 00:55:05.889
need to make the best structure possible and
00:55:05.889 --> 00:55:08.130
we need to continue evaluating the structure
00:55:08.130 --> 00:55:10.510
we need not to be afraid of changing it over
00:55:10.510 --> 00:55:14.469
time neither but it depends on on the full the
00:55:14.469 --> 00:55:17.190
full puzzle in the end another possibility that
00:55:17.190 --> 00:55:19.889
people throw out there is like moving away from
00:55:19.889 --> 00:55:22.190
national teams towards something instead like
00:55:22.190 --> 00:55:25.909
sponsor teams like they do in f1 um what are
00:55:25.909 --> 00:55:28.519
your thoughts on that of course the national
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:33.039
team it it gives also a certain value being able
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:35.260
to participate for your national team in the
00:55:35.260 --> 00:55:38.179
end going back to tennis it's quite funny in
00:55:38.179 --> 00:55:40.659
tennis indeed you have the pro system with the
00:55:40.659 --> 00:55:42.719
individual athlete but in the end they also have
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:44.699
the fat cup where the national teams compete
00:55:44.699 --> 00:55:47.679
and it's somehow a smaller kind of competition
00:55:47.679 --> 00:55:50.659
uh or even football where you have the commercial
00:55:50.659 --> 00:55:52.960
teams and then there is still the the world cup
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:56.519
every four years There are so many different
00:55:56.519 --> 00:56:00.559
ways of making the structure around the sport.
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.579
And I think we just need to have good discussions
00:56:02.579 --> 00:56:05.599
with the national federations prepared by the
00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:08.199
office with the different commissions. Clearly,
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:10.980
we have to have a marketing view on this. So
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:13.300
the marketing commission needs to watch this
00:56:13.300 --> 00:56:16.579
as well. The athletes need to say what they believe
00:56:16.579 --> 00:56:19.699
is best. And together we need to come to the
00:56:19.699 --> 00:56:22.019
best solution and indeed inspiring us in the
00:56:22.019 --> 00:56:24.639
other sports. It's a good thing. But in the end,
00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:29.099
I don't think there is a one size fits all idea
00:56:29.099 --> 00:56:34.000
or we will need to reinvent ourselves more than
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:39.059
once and just make good choices based upon the
00:56:39.059 --> 00:56:43.079
time context that exists. Okay, last question.
00:56:43.980 --> 00:56:48.079
Much more about your own climbing. What are your
00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:50.780
climbing preferences, plastic versus rock and
00:56:50.780 --> 00:56:54.349
your favorite climbing style? Okay. Great, great
00:56:54.349 --> 00:56:57.769
question. My climbing preference clearly is with
00:56:57.769 --> 00:57:01.250
the rocks. I have spent too much time on plastic
00:57:01.250 --> 00:57:04.190
as a coach, as a climber, as a route setter.
00:57:04.309 --> 00:57:08.730
And somehow right now I'm climbing. Unfortunately,
00:57:08.769 --> 00:57:11.710
I'm climbing less. I have a family. I'm doing
00:57:11.710 --> 00:57:14.530
a bit more of the political work. And in Belgium,
00:57:14.550 --> 00:57:17.409
it's harder to get to the rocks also. So once
00:57:17.409 --> 00:57:20.869
corona happened, I somehow stopped a bit climbing.
00:57:21.530 --> 00:57:24.269
Right now I'm climbing six to ten times a year
00:57:24.269 --> 00:57:30.150
only. So yeah. Whoa, like total. Yeah, it's not
00:57:30.150 --> 00:57:34.190
enough. It's not enough. But what I miss is clearly
00:57:34.190 --> 00:57:38.570
the rocks and even more so Fontainebleau. It's
00:57:38.570 --> 00:57:42.510
only three hours and a half driving from where
00:57:42.510 --> 00:57:45.730
I live. And I used to spend 14 weekends in my
00:57:45.730 --> 00:57:49.420
best years. uh in fontainebleau or i definitely
00:57:49.420 --> 00:57:53.820
love catalonia and siurana specifically um as
00:57:53.820 --> 00:57:56.920
as very nice places to go even though i must
00:57:56.920 --> 00:58:00.679
say that the granite from for example uh scandinavia
00:58:00.679 --> 00:58:04.300
or uh or in austria i also like so i like the
00:58:04.300 --> 00:58:08.239
diversity of climbing and i mostly miss the rocks
00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:11.860
and the outdoors even though of course competition
00:58:11.860 --> 00:58:15.179
climbing the show the the emotions that are there
00:58:15.530 --> 00:58:19.269
it's nice but i grow myself too old for participating
00:58:19.269 --> 00:58:23.329
that's 100 clear so you never did any like competing
00:58:23.329 --> 00:58:27.250
yourself oh yeah i used to do some competitions
00:58:27.250 --> 00:58:29.989
once i started climbing of course i did some
00:58:29.989 --> 00:58:32.570
recreational events i did some national events
00:58:32.570 --> 00:58:36.530
belgian cups some belgium championship even but
00:58:36.530 --> 00:58:40.050
i was i was i started too late and i was already
00:58:40.050 --> 00:58:44.469
too much focused on coaching others so Luckily,
00:58:44.469 --> 00:58:47.849
I did do some nice performances on the rocks.
00:58:48.070 --> 00:58:51.530
But competition -wise, I was only at national
00:58:51.530 --> 00:58:56.090
level. Only, okay. Belgium is a small country,
00:58:56.170 --> 00:59:02.329
you know. Sure, yeah. How do you feel about competition
00:59:02.329 --> 00:59:05.110
-style moves now? Do you ever do those kinds
00:59:05.110 --> 00:59:09.010
of climbs? It's very interesting to see how it
00:59:09.010 --> 00:59:13.460
evolves. And of course... In the past, some people
00:59:13.460 --> 00:59:16.280
were really strong and others were not. But nowadays,
00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:20.539
all are strong and you still need to give them
00:59:20.539 --> 00:59:22.739
the challenges that they cannot make. You don't
00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:25.039
want all people to succeed in everything. So
00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:28.099
I understand that we had a tendency to introduce
00:59:28.099 --> 00:59:30.659
these kind of moves and they are definitely spectacular.
00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:34.639
They are skills that... that are interesting
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.340
to develop and the funny thing is that I still
00:59:37.340 --> 00:59:39.639
notice that all the strong competition climbers
00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:42.900
are also amongst the really strong rock climbers
00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:45.719
so it's not that there is a complete difference
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:49.059
between competition style and the outdoor style
00:59:49.059 --> 00:59:52.380
for example and I understand that some people
00:59:52.380 --> 00:59:58.199
are a bit how would you say that it's not homesick
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:01.079
but they want to go back a bit to the old style
01:00:01.710 --> 01:00:03.849
But yeah, if you want to climb old style, you
01:00:03.849 --> 01:00:07.050
can still have old style once in a while, but
01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:11.010
it's good to have a diversity and it's a natural
01:00:11.010 --> 01:00:13.889
evolution and we cannot stop it necessarily.
01:00:14.210 --> 01:00:16.489
But what is important, I think, is that we somehow
01:00:16.489 --> 01:00:19.929
maintain indeed diversity and we don't make,
01:00:20.070 --> 01:00:23.989
not every competition need to be the same style.
01:00:24.969 --> 01:00:28.269
Every week the same would be a bit boring as
01:00:28.269 --> 01:00:31.739
well. Is there like a favorite competition style
01:00:31.739 --> 01:00:36.219
move that you like to do, like climb on? When
01:00:36.219 --> 01:00:39.300
I was actively climbing and setting, I just like
01:00:39.300 --> 01:00:43.500
to put in dynos, of course. Nowadays, it's so
01:00:43.500 --> 01:00:48.219
diverse and I wouldn't say there is one specific
01:00:48.219 --> 01:00:52.150
one that I would choose. all right cool um well
01:00:52.150 --> 01:00:55.530
i think that's all the questions i had then um
01:00:55.530 --> 01:00:58.630
thanks for joining me today is there any like
01:00:58.630 --> 01:01:00.769
last minute words words of wisdom that you want
01:01:00.769 --> 01:01:03.489
to get out there words of wisdom i'm too young
01:01:03.489 --> 01:01:08.780
to be uh white maybe no um definitely i i believe
01:01:08.780 --> 01:01:11.599
climbing is a really beautiful sport with lots
01:01:11.599 --> 01:01:14.000
of beautiful people being involved and if we
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:16.739
can manage to all work together cooperate and
01:01:16.739 --> 01:01:19.059
to help each other to continue the growth that
01:01:19.059 --> 01:01:21.900
we are living now keeping true to our values
01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:24.840
i i really hope that that can happen and if that
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:27.679
happens then probably we can indeed make better
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:30.519
worlds through sport climbing which is the vision
01:01:30.519 --> 01:01:32.619
of the ifsc and which which is a vision that
01:01:32.619 --> 01:01:36.360
i align with a lot so That's just built all together
01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:40.280
on this nice port. And do you want to let people
01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:42.400
know where they can find you if they have any
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:45.539
further questions or thoughts? I'm already a
01:01:45.539 --> 01:01:48.679
bit old school, but still Instagram works as
01:01:48.679 --> 01:01:50.559
you noticed because you could reach out to me
01:01:50.559 --> 01:01:53.500
through Instagram. So yeah, indeed, if people
01:01:53.500 --> 01:01:56.440
would like to reach out to me, they can easily
01:01:56.440 --> 01:01:59.699
find me on Instagram and then send me a message
01:01:59.699 --> 01:02:03.019
and I will happily reply to all decent questions.
01:02:03.980 --> 01:02:07.619
Decent questions. So you don't want like hate
01:02:07.619 --> 01:02:11.300
mail or anything like that? I think I unfortunately
01:02:11.300 --> 01:02:15.920
I heard recently from a very known, a very famous
01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:20.039
female athlete, the amount of wrong pictures
01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:22.559
that she receives. And I think it's really a
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:26.019
pity to hear that that's the reality for female
01:02:26.019 --> 01:02:29.679
athletes. I didn't realize it until I had a talk
01:02:29.679 --> 01:02:32.719
with her. And I really, I don't understand how.
01:02:33.099 --> 01:02:36.019
how we come to this point but fortunately it's
01:02:36.019 --> 01:02:39.559
the truth so i won't risk to receive those kind
01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:42.460
of pictures i guess but okay so you don't want
01:02:42.460 --> 01:02:45.380
pictures if people want to send hate is that
01:02:45.380 --> 01:02:51.099
okay no i'm just ninja it's funny no of course
01:02:51.099 --> 01:02:53.880
people should act respectfully to each other
01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:58.630
always so uh constructive criticism maybe yes
01:02:58.630 --> 01:03:03.309
okay okay well um yeah thank you for talking
01:03:03.309 --> 01:03:05.809
to me um thanks for joining thanks for answering
01:03:05.809 --> 01:03:08.869
all the hard questions um and it was amazing
01:03:08.869 --> 01:03:11.570
to talk to you yeah thanks a lot it was a pleasure
01:03:11.570 --> 01:03:14.010
also thanks for all the questions thank you so
01:03:14.010 --> 01:03:16.050
much for making it to the end of the podcast
01:03:16.050 --> 01:03:18.849
don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed
01:03:18.849 --> 01:03:22.670
otherwise you are a super big climber if you're
01:03:22.670 --> 01:03:25.090
listening on a podcasting platform i'd appreciate
01:03:25.090 --> 01:03:27.690
if you rate it five stars and you can continue
01:03:32.380 --> 01:03:34.059
Thanks again for listening.
